Thank you. General comments. The honourable Member for Baffin Central.

The reason why I asked that, for example, is that one of my communities wanted to negotiate the delivery of social services programs. For a number of years there have been questions put forward to the Legislative Assembly to find out if some of the social service funding could be reallocated to make-shift employment in the community before a recipient can be eligible to receive assistance. That kind of cost could not be negotiated.

Thank you. Madam Government Leader.

I think that even the previous Minister responsible for Social Services, as well as the present one, was trying to grapple with being more flexible, to see whether the territorial government or local government uses the money in the best way possible. We would like to see some of those changes as well. We have a standing invitation to meet with Mr. Mulroney in terms of our formula funding and some of the other issues. I would like to say at that time that we would like more flexibility, because I know the communities would want that as much as we do.

I think it gives us no end of concern when we would like to operate programs that reflect the requirements or the needs and aspirations of the people. We are tied to a framework that is determined by the federal funding policy.

I believe this is a good opportunity to address those issues and see what flexibility there can be. If there is no flexibility, the concern would be the same sitting around here as it would be for a community. So I cannot say positively, "Yes, we will get around all the hurdles we have in delivering all the social programs." We are suffering from it right here at the territorial level as much as the communities would. Hopefully, we can work and identify some of those key issues as we go along.

Thank you. Further general comments? The honourable Member for Nahendeh.

Community Government Structure A Matter Of Concern

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a few comments on the document, "Strength at Two Levels." As you all know, my name is in the report. I was involved from February until June in putting together the operation, organization and management portion of this report. I would just like to say that I did not see the final report until everybody else received it. I was not familiar with the final version to clear up our situation.

My understanding of this report was to make recommendations to the government as a blueprint for this new government on how to approach government programs and services into the communities. The intent of this document was to take it to the doorstep of the communities. The community government structure had a lot of concern about it during my involvement with the report because as a Dene coming from a community in the western part of the Northwest Territories -- we have difficulty in some communities where there are different structures. For example, in Fort Simpson there is a village council, a band council and a Metis local, so it is very difficult to figure out what programs and services go with which structure. The Constitutional Commission that is going around is there to address and try to clear up this problem. It coincides with this report. The intent of this document was not to describe what community self-government should look like, but rather to make recommendations on what should go into the communities rather than describing what the community should look like. I would like to leave it at this. Mahsi.

Thank you. Any further general comments? The honourable Member for Inuvik.

Lack Of Trained Northerners To Assume Responsible Positions

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally, I support the report, "Strength at Two Levels." Many aspects, recommendations and research that went into it provide a very stern review of how things are done. There are a couple of things I want to make note of, and I will be addressing these as we get into detail.

One is regarding the public service and the recommendation for developing a home-grown public service as well as the need to refocus or revitalize the affirmative action program. The report goes into some detail about the lack of Northerners and the lack of availability of trained northern people to assume responsible positions in this government. Yet, in another section, the report talks about the education of northern people. There is a recommendation to reduce some of the services, grants and benefits to northern people. This does not make sense to me. On one hand you are suggesting increasing the training of our people, and on the other hand you are recommending reducing what there is in terms of how this training is done. This is one area we have to look at. Maybe there is a middle ground.

Another area I have a concern about, and will be raising at the appropriate time, is health benefits, especially to non-status and Metis people. There are some recommendations in the report that they be seriously considered. I assume it means the requests that have been made to the previous government, and I believe it is on the agenda of this government. I read that to mean that those requests not be approved. I hope that they be considered and that we try not to establish different classes of aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories.

These are a couple of comments I wanted to make at this stage. Thank you.

Thank you. (Translation) The honourable Member for Baffin South.

(Translation) I have not yet read this report. Today is the first time I was able to read the report. These are just my general comments, and later on, as I read it more deeply, I will have further comments.

I also have concerns about what the government is going to be able to do in the communities. Regarding "Strength at Two Levels," as MLAs we represent the communities. If we are not clear on how our government is going and how the programs are going, I also have this concern. We will have to be very careful how we are going to represent our communities and their concerns. I would also like to read "Strength at Two Levels," and there is no doubt that I will be involved as we progress though this report.

I just wanted to make general comments at this time, and I will pay attention and read the report further. I understand what has been discussed today, as we discussed the report, but I have not read it thoroughly. Therefore, I just have general comments at this time. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake.

Thank you. Madam Government Leader.

Mr. Chairman, I think that in trying to reach the objectives and the general thrust of the "Strength at Two Levels" report, we have been very much concerned in terms of the problems that would come around with having some people feeling that their jobs will just not be here. We have had several meetings with deputy ministers in terms of putting forth our framework so that they could pass down to their various responsibilities what we are going to do. I think it has to be said that people get treated fairly and with respect, and we have tried to make sure that we send that message down the lines.

I believe that we have quite a vacancy rate as well, so the impact may not be as drastic as some people fear out there. Certainly the turnover rate in a lot of our government institutions is very high, and it has always concerned me that even at a community or regional level sometimes when the community is dealing with, "Where are we going to put our many educated young people; where are they going to go; how are they going to be involved; how are they going to get those jobs?" the impediment is sometimes when people say that it is impossible because these jobs are filled. To a great extent the turnover in those jobs is immense, and what we should be doing instead, while we are going to the community transfer, we should be dealing in the schools as well, telling the schools at a very early stage, "You have four nurses here. You need about 10 financial people in this community. You have so many RCMP officers. You have all this, and the turnover is there."

I do not think that the people who are moving toward taking over those job functions should have a fear that there is going to be somebody in the way and somebody is going to be there forever, because they are not. I think that in the foreseeable future, because of the rollover, there is room for a lot of people; and we are not threatening people about their jobs. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Keewatin Central.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is correct that we must ensure that the civil service feels it is being treated fairly, but the balancing argument to that is to ensure that the people out there in the communities are equally being treated fairly, and in my opinion at this juncture they simply are not.

Thank you. Are there any further general comments? If not, what does the committee wish to

do now? Ministers' Statement 2-12(1) and Tabled Document 3-12(1), is this matter concluded now? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you. What does the committee wish to do now? Give me some direction. Member for Inuvik.

By reporting progress on this today, does that mean that we are not going into the details of the report itself? I am not clear here.

Does this committee agree that this discussion has concluded? This item will still be on the discussion paper if we do not conclude discussion today. The honourable Member for Inuvik.

If I heard Members correctly, they want to conclude this. I am not in agreement because it is my understanding that we will be getting into more detail on some of the substance of the report.

Thank you. Madam Government Leader.

When it was asked whether Members agree that this is concluded, everyone said, "Agreed." So this finishes the report, unless you bring it back for further discussion, but once you say "conclude", it is finished.