This is page numbers 49 - 72 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 1st Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Speaker, I think all the points that I wanted to make were well covered by my colleague for Deh Cho. I would encourage all Members to support the motion.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Mr. Patterson.

Motion In Keeping With Government's Commitment

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do wish to make some comments on Mr. Gargan's motion, although I should say that I believe cabinet will abstain on this motion in that it does give advice to the government. But I would like to reflect some preliminary views of the cabinet based on some opportunity we have had to discuss this very important issue.

Mr. Speaker, as Members know, the Government Leader has already committed on Monday, December 9th, to providing Members with a comprehensive proposal at the next session that deals with the question. So Mr. Gargan's motion today is therefore certainly in keeping with our government's commitment. I would like to acknowledge Mr. Gargan's personal commitment on this very important issue. He is certainly a champion of access to information, access to government, and I would also like to say that I welcome the co-operative approach he has suggested in his remarks and his willingness to give the government and my department the opportunity to work co-operatively with him along these lines. I think we can do so, and I think that the co-operative approach, which was used in preparing the conflict of interest provisions for the last Assembly, shows that on major issues of this kind, ordinary Members can work with the government, with its resources, toward an agreed-on end.

Mr. Speaker, obviously there is, as Mr. Gargan has suggested, increasing demand for greater accessibility and accountability of governments for their actions and decisions. I think it is timely that this issue should be brought forward now, as we are embarking on major challenges in terms of reorganization and strengthening our governments at two levels.

I also believe that we can profit from the debates of the 11th Assembly and the hard work that has gone into the bill that Mr. Gargan referred to today. That work need not be lost as we start a new government and a new session.

I also believe that we began fairly auspiciously toward more openness with the very process that we agreed to, the open process for selecting the Government Leader and cabinet Members. I think that has underscored our striving for a more open government.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to make some further comments on this issue and throw out some ideas, although I do want to emphasize that we will want to take some more time to consider how to approach this issue.

A Look At Needs Of Small Communities Required

In discussing this matter, Members of cabinet felt that it is important to look at the needs of small communities and the needs of residents whose first language may not be the language used in many government offices. For such people -- and most of them are represented in this Assembly there is a majority of Members who do represent smaller communities -- access to information legislation of the kind considered by the previous House could take those citizens to the first step in the process of examining government actions and making the government answer to them. That is, they would get the information and the document.

However, I believe that the majority of public concerns may go well beyond just getting a copy of documents of government papers. Just getting the information may not always necessarily solve the problem or answer all the questions. And getting the information also does not necessarily provide an independent opinion about whether the government has acted fairly in a particular situation. So I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, based on some preliminary discussions we have had, that our citizens may also need some help once they get the information. Perhaps we could, as we look at this legislation, also consider a way in which people from small communities can get further assistance, once they have information, from a person who knows the government system and can speak what I would call "the language of government." Mr. Speaker, I refer to the concept of an ombudsman or an access to government Commissioner, or another name that we may find that is more appropriate to the North. Such a person -- and they exist in most jurisdictions in the country -could be appointed by this Assembly and could report to the Assembly and could be given broad powers to investigate and get access to government information. In fact, Mr. Speaker, if we look at the way some ombudspersons work, they might be entitled to review information which could not ordinarily be released under traditional access to information legislation. In other words, such a person might even be given special powers that might not ordinarily be available to a citizen to assist an individual or perhaps even to assist an MLA.

The other point that I think we should consider as we move to meet the spirit of Mr. Gargan's motion, Mr. Speaker, is the special problem of people who may not speak the language ordinarily used by government. Perhaps we should also look at a way of helping people to request information in their own first language. I think we may be able to come up with some methods that would help remove barriers of language as we strive to give people access to government. Perhaps as we look at the office of the Commissioner for official languages, there might be some way in which we could take advantage of the capabilities that we may be developing in that office to make it easier for people whose first language is not English to ask for information.

So, Mr. Speaker, I throw those ideas out only to give the Members of this House and the honourable Member some idea of the discussions that we have had already in government and some concepts that I have been considering as Minister of Justice. I do look forward to working with the honourable Member whose motion is before this House today to develop legislation in a timely way on a co-operative basis. I would hope that my ideas, floated here today, which I would describe as more along the lines of access to government as well as access to information, may also be considered ways in which the Member's concerns could be addressed as we move forward.

So, Mr. Speaker, I do say generally that the motion is consistent with commitment already in place by our government, and I look forward to working with the honourable Member and other Members to resolve this issue in a satisfactory manner to MLAs and to members of the public. Thank you.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. To the motion. To the motion, Mr. Gargan. Would you like to conclude debate?

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I did during the election was that I sent the draft of this particular bill to all the Members, including all the candidates. I would like to, first of all, thank you, Mr. Speaker, when you were supporting my motion as the Justice Minister at that time, or supporting my bill. I also wanted to thank Mr. John Vertes, who was the legal lawyer for me when I was working on the bill itself. I understand that Mr. Vertes is now a Supreme Court justice. I would also like to thank the research staff, too: Alan Downe, Sandy Harris and Richard Bargery. They also worked on getting all the information or all the access to information that they could in order for me to do the work on drafting up a bill itself. And, of course, I would like to thank the Members in this House during the 11th Assembly that supported it. Unfortunately, there are also Members that did not support it that are no longer with us. So I would like to ask all the Members to support me, including the Executive if they could, and I would also request, Mr. Speaker, that we have a recorded vote. Thank you.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you. The debate is concluded. A letter was sent to all Members explaining the new procedure. There was criticism in the past Legislative Assembly that every time there is a recorded vote, it always started in this corner so the people who sat in that corner always knew how everybody would vote on every issue. What we have decided to do is that we will start the vote at the mover and then move to the left of the mover, so that we will move it around and there is not an advantage for one part of the House as opposed to another part of the House. A recorded vote has been requested, Mr. Clerk. All those in favour, please rise.

Motion 20-12(1), Carried

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Gargan, Mr. Zoe, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Todd, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Dent, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

All those opposed, please rise. All those abstaining, please rise.

Clerk Of The House

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Pollard, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Morin, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Patterson.

The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is carried, with nine voting in the affirmative, no votes in the negative and seven abstentions.

---Carried

Item 15, first reading of bills. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

First Reading Of Private Members' Bill 4: Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Deh Cho, that Private Members' Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, be read for the first time.

Item 15: First Reading Of Bills
Item 15: First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

The motion is in order. All in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 4 has had first reading.

Item 16, second reading of bills. Item 17, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. We will dissolve into committee of the whole and consider Ministers' Statement 2-12(1), Ministers' Statement 5-12(1), Committee Report 1-12(1), Committee Report 2-12(1), Tabled Document 3-12(1), with Mr. Pudluk in the chair.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The committee will now come to order. Yesterday we were dealing with Ministers' Statement 2-12(1) and Tabled Document 3-12(1) and we were on general comments. Are there any further general comments? Member for Deh Cho.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, we only finished the formal session just now, and the Members have been sitting in this chamber for many hours, and I would like to move that we report progress.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

The motion to report progress is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Item 18, report of the committee of the whole. Mr. Pudluk.

Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Ministers' Statement 2-12(1) and Tabled Document 3-12(1) and wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the chairman of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Is there a seconder to the motion. Mr. Koe. The motion is in order. All those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 19, third reading of bills. Third reading of bills. Mr. Pudluk.

Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 18: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Members if I could go back to Item 6 written questions.

Question W6-12(1): Age Requirement For Old Age Pensions
Revert To Item 6: Written Questions

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Motion 36-87(1) was put forward asking whether people reaching the age of 60 could receive old age pension. There are not very many people who are still alive at 65 to receive the old age pension. Could the Minister responsible for Social Services find out what action has been done on that motion to date?

Question W6-12(1): Age Requirement For Old Age Pensions
Revert To Item 6: Written Questions

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Written questions. We will return to Item 19, third reading of bills. Third reading of bills. Item 20, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Question W6-12(1): Age Requirement For Old Age Pensions
Revert To Item 6: Written Questions

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Clerk Of The House

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the full caucus immediately after adjournment this evening. Meetings tomorrow: at 9;00 a.m., ordinary Members; at 10:00 a.m., the standing committee on legislation; at 11:45, the Management and Services Board.

Item 20: Orders Of The Day
Item 20: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Thursday, December 12, 1991.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Tabling of Documents

12. Notices of Motions

13. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

14. Motions: Motions 23-12(1), 24-12(1) and 25-12(1)

15. First Reading of Bills: Bills 1, 2 and 3

16. Second Reading of Bills: Bill 4

17. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters: Ministers' Statements 2-12(1) and 5-12(1); Committee Reports 1-12(1) and 2-12(1); Tabled Document 3-12(1)

18. Report of Committee of the Whole

19. Third Reading of Bills

20. Orders of the Day

Item 20: Orders Of The Day
Item 20: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker Michael Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m., Thursday, December 12, 1991.

---ADJOURNMENT