This is page numbers 113 - 142 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 1st Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did not request this bill to go to the standing committee on finance, I agree, because I did not feel -- I was under the impression

that bills which requested more funding and had financial implications would require to be pursued through the standing committee on finance. But since this funding is expended and basically what I have, what I am indicating in my bill, is that the funds for base salaries remain at the same, no additional funding required. I did not feel a need for it to go through the standing committee on finance. Thank you.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I just want to make some general comments as chairman of the standing committee on finance. I would think the bill is obvious; there is a need for restraint. The cabinet has demonstrated that; other members of the government have demonstrated that; we should demonstrate that.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments? Mr. Lewis.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

December 15th, 1991

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that is a noble gesture always, you know, when you say, "Look, we are going to lead by example" and that is the way it should be done. But what the government did when it tabled all these proposed cuts, was to omit, omit to indicate how much money was being saved. That was left to somebody else, I believe, to figure out exactly what the savings would be. I would be very interested to know exactly how much money is going to be saved as a result of passing this motion. Because if it is the intent of the motion to show, by example, how much money this group of people here is prepared to contribute, you know, to the deficit, then I think that it would help the public to understand how much we are hurting ourselves, how much injury, if you like, is being done to each individual Member by this huge contribution we are making toward reducing the deficit. I would like to have that kind of figure. I mean, we would have got that if it was down to the standing committee on finance. That kind of information would have been revealed, if it had gone to that appropriate committee, because it is not just a matter of spending more money, that is not the issue, it is a financial issue and it would be very, very good if we were, not only prepared to indicate how much more money we want to spend, but also how much less money we are prepared to spend, and the public should know that. It has a right to know it, and it would only happen if this bill went to the standing committee on finance. You got the analysis to look at, figure out exactly how much it is going to be worth and it would be a great contribution, I think, to the public knowledge of how committed this government is towards restraint. Thank you.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments? Member for Thebacha.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I just want to give a point of clarification in respect to the amount of funding to be saved. It would be difficult to assess at this moment, because our base salary increases would depend on the COLA, cost of living allowance, for 1991, and the COLA does not come out until after December 1991, so it would be difficult to assess the estimated amount.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. General comments. Does the committee wish to go clause by clause?

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Alright. Clause 1. Mr. Gargan, did you wish to make an amendment? Mr. Gargan.

Motion To Amend Clause 1, Bill 4

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, be amended by striking out "25(1), 26(2), 27(1) and 28(1)" and substituting a period for the comma immediately following subsection 23(1).

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Mr. Gargan.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, the reason why I would like to get those deleted is that I believe the intent is to put a cap on salaries, but it would make it very difficult for Members to function as Members if we start restricting them based on what they have for their constituencies and also to do committee work and that. I think the principle is to put a cap on or else to cut back, and in this case I think we are, as 18 Members, not increasing our salaries but keeping it the same.

At the same time, I think it is important that the Members realize that you do have a certain amount for your constituency work, and I hate to see gasoline, air fares and everything else increase and these do not. We might be limiting ourselves in our capacity as Members, so this is the reason why I would like to make a motion to delete those and I hope to get the Members' support on that. Thank you.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Dent.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am opposed to the amendment. I think that we need to show the type of fiscal restraint that shows that we are serious about it, and I suspect that what Mr. Lewis was alluding to was that it would be a somewhat small foregone increase, if you will. I think it is important that we be seen to be taking steps that we recognize how difficult the financial situation is in the NWT and be willing to make the sacrifices involved to make substantial cuts in our own salaries and benefits. I would urge the other Members to consider that, in fact, we are probably not talking about a whole bunch of money and I think that we should demonstrate a real commitment to fiscal restraint and agree to include our allowances and other tax-free benefits in the bill not to be increased. Thank you.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did not get a copy of the amendment so I am not quite sure what is being discussed at this point. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Copies were sent out. To the amendment, Member for Thebacha.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just quickly, in calculating, I have a difficult time supporting this amendment because when I calculated last year the percentage of the COLA that was given to MLAs there was a five per cent cost of living allowance, and with that they received a five per cent cost of living allowance to their base salary and also in the indemnity funding.

With our budget of $1.6 million for this portion, both salaries and indemnities, if we take, for example, last year -- based on last year's figures of the cost of living allowance, we would actually be saving $83,600. Taking into consideration our base salary and all of our living allowance, I do not think it is much to ask of the Members, to save somewhere in the tune of $84,000. I think it will show good leadership and I want to remind Members that next year this government is going to be going into negotiations with different unions and I think it is fairly unfair for us to ask them to consider wage restraints for civil servants and other boards and agencies when we are going to be self righteous and keep our salary the same, or our expenses the same. I think we really have to show leadership and be the first ones to take a cut -- I am saying keep our salaries the same. There is nothing wrong with asking Members to request this. I have a difficult time supporting the amendment.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the amendment. Mr. Gargan.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the record, the deletion of clause 25(1) refers to the $65 that is being paid to the Deputy Speaker and the deputy chairmen of committee of the whole. That is not very much money, $65 a day, and if you look at the Speaker, the Speaker's salary has gone up, I believe, to the tune of about 200 per cent. Even with the cut, it is still a large increase. In the presiding officers' indemnities there is not that much of an increase, $65 a day, keeping that the same and not increasing it, I find this could be difficult because I know, Mr. Chairman. I have been the Deputy Speaker for the last eight years and it does not pay to be a presiding officer, as far as I am concerned. I think it is really unfair to the presiding officers, once we get them, to let them know that they have to put a cap on their honorariums, if you want to call it that, to keep them in the chair.

The other comment is with regard to section 26(2). This section refers to when you are serving on a special or standing committee and the honorarium for that is $190 a day. I only serve on two committees and whenever the opportunity arises for those people to meet that is the only time that the Members actually get paid that indemnity. A lot of meetings occur without the indemnities being paid. When you are in session, for example, the committees meet and the people do not get the extra for meeting in the evenings or before 9:00 a.m., because the day is filled with other agendas. The dedication is there to work outside normal working hours, and it is difficult for Members. I do not know whether restricting them from this is fair, when you have to travel to Yellowknife most of the time for committee meetings as opposed to going to other communities, but I would think it is fair.

The other one is with regard to section 28(1) where a Member gets a 90-day indemnity or else they get an indemnity when they start travelling between their residence and communities. It is either one, either you could delete the indemnity you pay Members when they leave their community. For example, I travel to Yellowknife in one day, a few hours, I do not benefit from this. But I certainly could feel that the Members from the Eastern Arctic are going to be put in a bad position if we start not paying them that part of the indemnity. I know accommodation is pretty high in the Eastern Arctic and some Members take as long as a week to get here. So not compensating them and having them pay out of their own pocket is unfair, as opposed to Members that live in the West. Most of the western Members could make it here in one day. So they do not have to make those kinds of sacrifices.

I think it is really unfair if we have to restrict Members from the Eastern Arctic by limiting their indemnities in that area. I think most of the sections being deleted have to do with travel and accommodation. Things are going up and so is everything else when you travel. Limiting those indemnities would probably limit your function as a Member. So I would hope the Members could support my amendment.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. To the amendment.

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Motion To Amend Clause 1, Bill 4, Defeated

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Ludy Pudluk

Question has been called. All those in favour? Opposed, if any? The amendment is defeated.

---Defeated.

Clause 1. Agreed?

Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 17: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed