This is page numbers 19 - 32 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was versus.

Topics

Members Present

Hon. Titus Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Hon. James Arvaluk, Mr. Bernhardt, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Todd, Hon. Tony Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 19

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

I would like to call this House to order. Item 2, Budget Address. Mr. Pollard.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 19

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this 3rd Session of the 12th Legislative Assembly we are going to be asking the Legislative Assembly to do something different. For the first time we will be reviewing a capital budget four months before the start of the new fiscal year.

This change in timing is important, Mr. Speaker. It is important to communities and to the N.W.T. construction industry. It will provide all parties, communities, contractors and government departments with critical lead time to gear up and prepare the next year's construction season. With this additional lead time, firm plans can be made by communities to maximize local employment, and training and business opportunities with regard to the government's capital program. Contractors will have more time to prepare bids, to get organized, to secure financing and to marshal materials before the construction season commences.

Capital construction activity in the Northwest Territories is tapering off due to the completion of the Forward Warning System, the slow economic growth in the country, and the federal government funding cuts to housing. The reduction of construction activity in other sectors increases the importance of the Government of the Northwest Territories' capital budget and makes it vital for government to take steps to ensure that more economic benefits of its capital program stay in the north with northern workers and with northern businesses.

With Legislative Assembly approval of the capital budget during this sitting, government departments and agencies will be able to commence project tendering immediately. They will also be able to meet with communities and plan how capital projects should be managed during the construction phase to provide maximum training and employment opportunities for local workers. The local training and employment aspect of the government's capital program has been a particular focus of government departments over the last year. Procedures and processes which help facilitate the inclusion of significant local training components in capital projects have now been developed.

In addition, we are looking at ways to increase opportunities for using goods manufactured in the Northwest Territories. To that end, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Housing has implemented a program to break down housing packages into units which support the use of products that are, or have the potential to be manufactured in the Northwest Territories.

As I mentioned previously, this new schedule will permit departments to tender earlier than has been done in the past. With early tendering, will also come earlier reward of contracts to successful bidders. Although this will not allow the government to actually receive services or make payments before the start of the new fiscal year on April 1, it will provide certainty to contractors and allow them to plan better for the construction season.

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with the spirit and intent of this new capital budget process, I would like to emphasize that we expect contractors to work more closely with communities on capital projects. Early tendering of projects should provide sufficient time to facilitate this cooperative approach. While the scheduling change in the capital budget review is important, we have also made a major change in how the capital budget is developed. The budget the Legislative Assembly will be reviewing this session, has gone through the most consulted development process ever undertaken by the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Following the Premier's commitment to more open government and the support of a more open planning process by the Standing Committee on Finance, the development of the 1993-94 capital budget provided for direct input from all communities and all Members of this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, in May 1992, communities and M.L.A.s were provided with a listing of all projects their communities were eligible for over the next five years. Communities and M.L.A.s were asked to priorize and comment on these capital projects. Within a few short weeks almost every community and M.L.A. had responded. This demonstration of interest and cooperation provided the government with excellent information and guidance for the completion of the 1993-94 capital budget.

In August 1992, the government again went to the communities and M.L.A.s and this time, Mr. Speaker, the response was not as good as we had hoped. Communities found out that the capital projects had been assigned a priority in response to the input received and in consideration of the amount of capital money which was available.

The capital projects were presented to communities and M.L.A.s in the form of a draft five year capital plan. A document that I might add, Mr. Speaker, when I was an ordinary Member, was said not to exist.

Community and M.L.A. response to this second round of consultation was less dramatic than the response received on the first round. This may have been due to the short time frames involved or to the level of comfort that communities had with the resulting five year plan. Feedback received since the five year plan, which was circulated, suggests a combination of both. However, we feel that the predominant reason was that communities were satisfied that the government had made an honest effort to accommodate community priorities.

Many communities and M.L.A.s, as well as the Standing Committee on Finance, have provided us with valuable suggestions on how to improve the capital consultation process for the next budget. Suggestions include such improvements as providing more time for communities to respond, providing more information to communities on particular capital projects, making instructions easier to understand and allowing communities to suggest ultimate projects or approaches to fulfil community needs.

Mr. Speaker, the government is committed to making the capital planning process even more open and responsive to community needs. Each one of these suggestions will be reviewed carefully and to the maximum extent possible will be incorporated into the development of the 1994-95 capital budget.

I have already noted the importance of the Government of the Northwest Territories capital budget to the economy of the N.W.T., particularly the economy of the smaller communities.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Point of Privilege, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am trying to listen to what Mr. Pollard is saying and I cannot concentrate with a glaring light in my face. Thank you.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

That is not a Point of Privilege. If you need sunglasses we can provide them to you. If the House agrees, we will arrange to have the television lights turned off. Is this agreed? Does anybody else have a problem with these lights? Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, the Legislature carries out its duties with the public having some reasonable access to the proceedings. It seems to me that a little bit of temporary optical pain will allow those of our constituents that are not here, some visual access to the way we conduct ourselves. I would suggest we bear with it and get on with the business.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Does this House agree? Proceed, Mr. Pollard.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 20

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have already noted the importance of the Government of the Northwest Territories' capital budget to the economy of the N.W.T., particularly the economy of the smaller communities. The capital budget represents not just the means of obtaining needed infrastructure and facilities, it also represents a major tool for furthering training and economic development.

Our decisions, as M.L.A.s and Ministers, with respect to the capital plan, have a major impact on employment levels and business prosperity in the N.W.T.

Since our capital program is so important to so many people for so many reasons, we must exercise great care to ensure that our capital programs provide a stable base that can be relied upon by both business and labour. This is not to say that our capital program alone can guarantee economic prosperity for all, but it is incumbent on our government to ensure that capital spending levels, at the territorial and the community level, do not fluctuate widely each year. A boom and bust approach to capital planning must be avoided.

Over the years, we have been successful in maintaining a relatively stable level of total capital spending. Our capital spending has grown in step with inflation with the addition of responsibilities transferred from the federal government. Even this fiscal year, in the face of a major deficit challenge, we have been able to maintain our capital spending levels very close to those of previous years.

Mr. Speaker, more worrisome for us than the level of total capital spending across the territories has been the annual level of capital activity in each community. Local training and employment initiatives needs a stable level of local capital spending to be successful. In an effort to provide this stability the government has taken two significant steps.

The first step has been to provide three year capital spending targets to each government department. Previously, departments did not know how much money they would be provided for from year to year. This made planning and commitment to specific projects difficult. As a result, the capital plan changed significantly each year and communities could not count on projects proceeding. With the introduction of three year targets, departments can plan with more certainty and can make multi-year commitments to communities.

The second step taken to provide a stable level of capital activity in each community builds on the ability of departments to make multi-year commitments. Government and communities can now sit down and work out a multi-year capital training and employment plan for the community. This approach may require that communities agree to wait a little longer to get a particular facility or to take a little longer to build a facility. In the end, the community can be assured it will be received, it will receive what it is entitled to while reaping maximum training and employment benefits.

Mr. Speaker, the 1993-94 Capital Estimates provide for an overall capital expenditure level of approximately $176 million. The details of these estimates are ready for the review of the Legislative Assembly.

However, Mr. Speaker, there is a gap in the Capital Estimates documents I will be tabling. This gap is in the area of housing and I would ask the Members of the Legislative Assembly to bear with us in this regard. I do not think it is any secret that the Minister has been working very hard, along with his staff, to close up the $22 million gap that the federal government has caused in our funding for housing in the Northwest Territories. It is coming right down to the wire and the Minister is still working in that area.

I would also like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for allowing us to go ahead with the budget and, as yet, they have not received the housing allocations. I believe they will be receiving them tonight, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, within the next day or so, the Minister responsible for the N.W.T. Housing Corporation will be making a statement and tabling the detailed information on the proposed capital housing programs and allocations for 1993-94. Once he has the opportunity to do this, the Capital Estimates detail will be complete.

Mr. Speaker, I have made repeated references to training, to hiring people from the north, to doing business with northern contractors and I repeat myself on purpose, Mr. Speaker. We have to emphasize to the people of the Northwest Territories, the northern contractors and, most importantly, to our departments that we are committed to the principle of doing business in the Northwest Territories. This principle has the total support of Cabinet and I believe it has the support of this House, Mr. Speaker. If it is government money we are spending, then we want the maximum benefits to accrue to northerners.

Mr. Speaker, this budget will form part of our budget for 1993-94. It is only, as I say, a part of it. We will still be coming to the House in the late winter with a balanced budget, Mr. Speaker, in case there are any questions about that.

I would like to thank the Ministers and the departments because we have shortened the time frame by four months and they have had to scramble to get their budgets together. I want to thank my people; Lew Voytilla and the F.M.S. for putting the budget together and, most of all, the Standing Committee on Finance, without whose cooperation we would have not have achieved this early date to review the Capital Estimates.

Mr. Speaker, I thank the House for their time and, at the appropriate time, which will probably be tomorrow, I will submit the 1993-94 Capital Estimates to this Legislative Assembly for its consideration. Thank you.

Item 2: Budget Address
Item 2: Budget Address

Page 21

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you, Mr. Minister for Finance. That concludes Item 2, Budget Address. At this time, I would like to recognize who are in the gallery, students from the Native Women's Training Centre. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

Item 3, Ministers' Statements. Item 4, Members' Statements. Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to comment on a serious wildlife management issue which, again, demonstrates that the Canadian justice system is not meeting the needs of aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories.

On March 12 and 13 of this year, several members of the Canadian Armed Forces participated in a northern training exercise termed operation Reliant Nordic, near Coppermine. At that time, a caribou herd was moving to the area. On at least two occasions, the armed forces personnel fired at the caribou and killed some animals of that herd. I was dismayed, Mr. Speaker, when I heard that all three members charged with these wildlife offences received an absolute discharge in the territorial courts. This is not right, Mr. Speaker.

I understand that the soldiers were using automatic weapons with non-expanding ammunition. I also understand that these charges were dropped as a result of plea bargaining which took place when they agreed to plead guilty to hunting offenses. Mr. Speaker, there has been much discussion of the new federal firearms legislation and the impact it may have on aboriginal hunters.

I am concerned that the court's decision has given the message to other members of the military and, perhaps sport hunters who visit our northern environment, that these statutes and regulations do not apply to them.

Mr. Speaker, aboriginal people share a very special spiritual relationship with the animals of our land. They sustain us and we look after them. They are part of the gift given to Mother Nature by the Creator and we get the guidance of that gift. We would not be fulfilling our spiritual responsibility if we sat silently by while visitors to our homeland violate the values that have formed the basis of our Dene lifestyle for centuries.

Accordingly, I rise today to condemn the actions of the armed forces personally with the operation Nordic Reliant and justice system, which clearly does not care. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Members' Statements. Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There was a funeral service for a former member of the territorial government yesterday in Saskatoon. I refer to Dr. Audie Dyer and I am very pleased that one of his ex-students, Mr. Kakfwi, made a statement about him yesterday.

Audie Dyer came north to Yellowknife in 1959 and he taught at Sir John Franklin School. In 1968 he began the very first teacher training program for native students in a classroom at Sir John Franklin School. In 1970 the program was moved to Fort Smith to be one of the adult and vocational training programs there. In his four year connection with the program, Audie made an enormous impact on the lives on young northern leaders. He worked tirelessly and always seemed on the verge of exhaustion.

Mr. Speaker, these are the words which have been used to describe him: he was a teacher; counsellor; confidante; banker; instructor; father-confessor; friend; defender; leader; publicist; surrogate parent; and, bail bondsman. I know he belongs to the bad old colonial era which we like to dump on now and again, but I think it was appropriate in his passing that we pay tribute to this man and the work which he did and the fact that he had a tremendous impact on many of our current leaders in the Northwest Territories. It is appropriate that we pay tribute to the people who deserve it. We pass on our sympathy to his friends and family.

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, Members' Statements. Mr. Bernhardt.

G.n.w.t. Hiring Practice
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 21

Ernie Bernhardt Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about the hiring practices of this government, with reference to the hiring of aboriginal people. After serving on the Standing Committee on Finance for the past year I have seen first-hand the pitiful performance of many departments of this government in employing aboriginal people. Although some small progress has been made towards increasing the number of aboriginal people in entry level positions within some departments, the progress in hiring aboriginal people in middle and upper-management has been inadequate to say the least.

Members on both sides of this House have spoken many times about making the public service more representative of the people it serves. It seems we are not doing enough to realize this goal. I am quite concerned that we have not only failed to realize this goal, but we have discouraged qualified aboriginal people from applying for positions within the public service.

Recently I was informed of a case where a young aboriginal women had become totally discouraged with the prospect of obtaining employment with the Government of the Northwest Territories. I will not deal specifically with her case in the House, but I will raise it with the Minister later. However, I do wish to use this as an example of the problem. This aboriginal person was born and raised in the Northwest Territories and is highly educated. She has completed her Bachelor of Arts degree and is unable to obtain employment with this government even at entry level positions. It seems to me that this is the type of person which this government should be looking at hiring, and perhaps even specifically recruiting and targeting for certain positions.

Mr. Speaker, it is time that we stopped paying lip service to hiring aboriginal persons in this government and simply go out and do it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

G.n.w.t. Hiring Practice
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 22

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Members' Statements. Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am outraged by the events surrounding the treatment of armed forces personnel who plead guilty to illegally killing caribou during operation Nordic Reliant. These people were practising survival techniques designed for extreme situations.

Mr. Speaker, what do you think would happen to me, as an aboriginal person, if I was to go to a farm outside Winnipeg, where these fellows are from, and shoot a cow which belongs to someone else in order to practise what I might have to do under extreme conditions? Do you think I would get a sharp lawyer to help me out? Do you think I might get an absolute discharge? I do not think so.

Mr. Speaker, this event reflects the same mentality that has plagued relations between aboriginal and non-native people for at least 500 years. Whether it involves using soldiers to take away sacred land and turn it into a golf course, whether it involves disrupting the peaceful skies of Labrador with the roar of low level flying exercises, or whether it involves coming into a traditional northern hunting area and slaughtering our caribou with automatic weapons. This behaviour reflects an attitude of disrespect and colonial superiority which should have died with General Custer.

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

This is exactly the sort of conduct that creates prejudice and hard feelings between aboriginal people and the Government of Canada. Why should they get away with it, Mr. Speaker? What confidence can we have in the territorial laws and the justice system that are unable to protect our natural environment? What sort of deterrence is achieved by rewarding these people who admit they are poachers, with less than a slap on the wrist in Judge Bourassa's court?

I find this whole incident to be shameful and I expect the Government Leader and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to do something about it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, Members' Statements. Mr. Ningark.

Court Circuit System
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 22

John Ningark Natilikmiot

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a few comments regarding the court party which goes into the communities, particularly into the smaller communities. Obviously the Dene people have been visited by this court party because there are usually some people in those communities who have been charged with mischief. A lot of people in the communities have to wait for the court party when they have been charged and have to go to court. The people who have been charged all have minds and feelings like we do. When they must wait for a long time, they begin to worry about what is going to happen in the future. Whether they are man, woman, young or old they begin to have some fears about what is going to happen to them.

I am not trying to say that the people who have committed crimes should not be put in jail, but we should start looking into their situations. When a court party goes into a community it stays for only two or three days, and sometimes it does not even get to see a lot of people who have been charged. There have been a lot of complaints in my communities, such as Gjoa Haven and Spence Bay, regarding this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Court Circuit System
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 22

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Item 4, Members' Statements. Mr. Morin.

Hunting Along Ingraham Trail
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 22

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On November 1, 1992, I and my family went out on the Ingraham Trail outside of Yellowknife to harvest caribou. I was harvesting caribou to take back to my riding on the Monday. This was on a Sunday. We were lucky enough to harvest three caribou. It was in a bore pit off the side of the Ingraham Trail, off the right-of-way of the Ingraham Trail. We were in the process of skinning these caribou and I was teaching my son how to skin caribou at the same time. A game warden came along and he asked me where I shot these caribou. I said, " I shot these caribou right here". Then he said, "Mr. Morin, are you aware that there is a regulation that you have to be a kilometre and a half off the highway?" I said "no." I wanted to let the Members know that I regret making this mistake and that is what is was, a mistake.

There is an upshot. The elders in Fort Resolution were happy to receive the fresh caribou meat the next night and my son did learn how to skin a caribou. I just thought I would let the Members know what I did. Thank you.

Hunting Along Ingraham Trail
Item 4: Members' Statements

Page 22

The Speaker Ludy Pudluk

Thank you. Item 4, Members' Statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.