Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan. Point of order, Mr. Gargan.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise on a point of order concerning comments made by the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi in his capacity as the Minister of Justice while he was answering oral questions yesterday. Mr. Speaker, this is the first opportunity I have had to raise on this point of order. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Justice was answering a supplementary question to Question 489-12(3), asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell. The comments which concern me are contained on page 2543 of the unedited Hansard.

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is regarding the following comments made by the Minister, "Mr. Speaker, my view is that there are two Members of this Legislative Assembly who have taken a particular interest in this inmate. I understand there is a perception on their part that there is not enough punishment for the offence which was committed. I do not see it as a great public concern judging from the lack of interest in other quarters."

Mr. Speaker, I feel the Minister of Justice is alleging that the Member for Thebacha and myself, who I think he is implying to with his comments, have motives with our questions. Mr. Speaker, I also feel the Minister should not be alleging that since he does not see the matter as one of great public concern, that it is not an issue with some of the Members' constituents.

Mr. Speaker, I raise this as a point of order and request your consideration on this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I think I would like to hear any views which other Members may have on either a point of privilege or point of order. I will allow debate on this. Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. You cannot raise a point of order on a point of order. I will deal with this point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. I am asking for debate on this point of order. Are there any comments on this? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, just to comment on behalf of the point of order which my colleague has raised, I would like to indicate to the Members that our foundation of this institution is based on democracy, representing our constituents. To allege, by a Minister, that we are bringing forth these interests, particularly from the unedited Hansard which is before us to state, "that we have taken a particular interest in this inmate," appears to be somewhat unparliamentary. I think the Minister has certainly imputed false motives on this point of order. I would appreciate your particular comments with respect to this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Are there any other comments on this point of order? If not, I conclude debate. I will deliberate on this particular point of order and get back to the Members as soon as I have concluded my deliberations.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis. Point of order, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Point Of Order

Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise on a point of order. I have had an opportunity last evening and this morning to review unedited Hansard for March 15, 1993, and particularly to review the comments made by the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, in his response to my questions on the circumstances surrounding the incarceration of a female inmate in Fort Smith.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Kakfwi said on page 2543, "My view is that there are two Members of this Legislature who have taken a particular interest in this inmate." In the same response he goes on to say, "I do not see it as a great public concern judging from the lack of interest in other quarters." Perhaps most objectionably, Mr. Speaker, as the honourable Member stated on page 2544, "I do not agree with the Member that she is the sole spokesperson for what the public thinks should be done in any case."

Mr. Speaker, when I stand up in this House and raise issues, I am acting on behalf of my constituents. I am, in essence, their voice in this House. To suggest that my words are not reflective of the opinions of my constituents, I suggest undermines the entire foundation of our representative system of democracy. In his comments, Mr. Kakfwi appeared to suggest that I was not representing the views of my constituents but rather acting for other unstated motives. To impute false motives to a Member has always been unparliamentary, Mr. Speaker. I would ask Mr. Kakfwi to withdraw his allegations. Thank you.

Thank you. Because I do not have a written copy of your point of order, I want the opportunity to read it, I want an opportunity to see what points, in any, are covered in your point of order that are not covered in Mr. Gargan's point

of order. I will deliberate on this and tomorrow I will tell you if, indeed, you do have a point of order. Thank you.

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, the Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions read a long report into the record, which went on for many hours. I have heard from one of my constituents who thought it was rather long. There was some other criticism of it also, Mr. Speaker, that this report was overly critical of the people who work in the health care system. I should point out, Mr. Speaker, that it is the job of this kind of government which is open, to report what it hears. The government, in fact, has then an opportunity, within 120 days, to respond to the committee's report.

However, I should point out in the report and I quote from page 11, "I believe that the people here in Yellowknife do a great amount of very good work, but I think what they do not understand is that they have never lived out in the satellite communities."

In fact, throughout the report there is a recognition that we are not talking about the high level of professional care in the system, but somehow that the structural problems still have to be overcome to meet the requirements of many of the people in the Northwest Territories. So, I think, Mr. Speaker, the government should not be overly sensitive to the fact that we are an open committee and are openly reporting as is required by our terms of reference.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Staff at the River Ridge young offenders facility in Fort Smith have been notified by management that as of April 5, 1993, the facility will become an open custody unit. River Ridge is an institution currently designed to deliver a maximum secure program to young offenders. Mr. Speaker, it costs around $2.7 million to design and build the sort of building which is required to house young offenders on a maximum secure basis. Since February, 1990, all staff training has focused on subjects required for the management of inmates in a maximum secure environment at a considerable cost to the staff development budget in corrections.

A strong team morale and excellent leadership skills have emerged among the River Ridge staff as a result of their experience in working with these very difficult youth and most importantly there is strong evidence that the program is working. Now, the Minister of Justice is talking about throwing all of this away with a complete reversal of program development efforts, which have been a priority for the past two and a half years.

Mr. Speaker, there is likely to be a significant financial cost associated with this plan. Renovation expenditures to make the facility suitable as an open custody residence will have to be accounted for in the corrections budget. Additional dollars for training staff to assume new roles in an open custody unit will have to be found. The facility is not intended for recreation and group related programming which occurs within an open custody setting. It is designed as a maximum secure institution. The idea is not financially feasible and will result in disruption to program delivery, a potential for lowered staff morale, and difficulties in rehabilitating open custody offenders in a maximum secure institution.

No matter how many renovations the Minister is contemplating, the environment is not conducive to successful results. The most ridiculous part of the entire plan is that the Minister intends to renovate the secure facility in Hay River and turn it into a maximum secure institution. There is no doubt that will push the costs even higher. I have to question the quality of planning with the corrections division and will be urging the Minister not to proceed with the changes to River Ridge in Fort Smith. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a brief statement. I would like to thank the people who worked hard to deal with the PanArctic issue. They were asking for a permit to dump waste into the ocean. I would like to thank ITC, ICC, and members of the BRC for supporting me on this issue which I was working on. This will show the people how important our environment is to us and how we would want to protect our land and animals. I am happy that the people in the high Arctic were able to work together on this matter. I would like to thank the organizations in supporting me in this matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Pudluk. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Mayor Kadluk of Chesterfield Inlet, who is in the gallery...

---Applause

...and also Mayor Mablick of Pond Inlet.

---Applause

Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to inform Members of this Assembly that I will be leaving the House tomorrow to participate in the Nunavut trades show in Iqaluit, about which I have spoken earlier in this House and to meet with the students at Nanook School in Apex. Students from Nanook School have been calling me to express their

concern. Mr. Speaker, these young people are very anxious to find out about whether or not their new school will have a gym as the old school did. I am not sure what I can tell these eager young people when I meet with them, except that I have been raising the matter in this Legislature. I have been receiving indications of support from other honourable Members. The Minister of Education is well aware of the issue and the matter is before Cabinet.

I know from talking with the Minister of Finance that there will be additional monies required to construct this gym onto the school. I am told that DPW has estimated the premium at an additional $1 million. Mr. Speaker, with the greatest of respect to the Minister of DPW and his officials, I would hope that a 2400 square foot gym, an addition to an existing school plan not much larger in area than a house, could be built onto the school for significantly less than that.

The Arctic Bay community council office was just tendered to a northern firm that is prepared to build that building in a more remote location than Iqaluit for just over $250 per square foot. This school has already been designed. I assume the architect was already paid because they are using the same model as the Paulatuk school and it is part of a school which already has a boiler and mechanical systems for the four classrooms.

Mr. Speaker, I hope the Minister of Finance will be sympathetic to my pleas. I hope he will remember back to when he was an ordinary Member and was beseeching Cabinet and this House to add a gym to the new Harry Camsell School which was built in Hay River. He was successful in his pleas. I attended the opening of that new school. It has a beautiful gym. All the kids from Apex want is a small gym. I will report back on what the kids say when I return to this House next week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. You had one second to spare. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I am concerned about a recent statement in this Legislative Assembly about the proposed Mackenzie Valley road. People along the valley are very concerned about what they hear on CBC Radio, which was making reference last week to the Mackenzie Valley road as "a road that goes nowhere." People who live and work in the communities along the Mackenzie Valley have been working hard for many years to promote the construction of this road. This road has many potential benefits.

A road linking the communities in the Mackenzie Valley will eventually support renewable and non-renewable develops such as oil and mineral explorations. This type of exploration and development are essential to stimulate the economy of the whole valley. The Mackenzie Valley Highway has potential to immediately reduce the cost of doing business in all the communities in the valley.

We cannot afford to leave our communities isolated. The proposed road would supply an essential link to prosperity and growth. The Mackenzie Valley road would also provide new opportunities for development of tourism in each of the communities along the way. It would provide access to Inuvik through the Northwest Territories. A loop could be created by joining with the Dempster Highway, Mr. Speaker. This road could provide the backbone of an infrastructure that is so badly needed in these communities. Mr. Speaker, in order to develop our economy, it is essential to develop our infrastructure first. The Mackenzie Valley road would be a very important infrastructure to develop and that way we can develop our economy along the Mackenzie Valley. Mahsi Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At 6:20 pm March 14, there was a report that the tailings pond solution from Giant Mine seemed to be spilling. It was reported to our spill line, which my department administers. At 6:26 pm the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada was contacted as they have jurisdiction in this area. Since the Giant Mine property is on territorial lands, they are responsible to monitor and administer the spills. The spill covered approximately 30 by 50 metres. Since it was reported to Indian and Northern Affairs, they immediately responded to the spill. Today the spill which occurred is frozen and it has been removed and placed in the tailings pond. The situation is being monitored by Indian and Northern Affairs, but the clean-up has been completed. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Mr. Allooloo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am told it is tailings from the mine and it consists of quite a few minerals. I am told it is a regular tailings pond that consists of minerals which are generated by the mine. I am not sure what they are, but I am told it is a normal tailings pond. Thank you.