This is page numbers 515 - 547 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 515

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good afternoon. Item 2, Minsters' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am pleased to inform the House that we have been successful in accessing federal government funding for a two-year search and rescue training program.

The National Search and Rescue Secretariat's new initiatives program will provide $165,500 in the current fiscal year and $189,000 in 1995-96 for training in ground and marine search and rescue and search management. (Translation ends)

Access to this program is generally restricted to federal government departments and our success in working with the RCMP "G" division proves our two governments can work cooperatively and collaboratively. I wish to recognize and offer appreciation to the RCMP for working on the training program with the department and sponsoring the program for funding.

I would also like to acknowledge and thank the Minister of Justice for his department's support in this endeavour. The success we have had in establishing this training initiative can be attributed to our interdepartmental cooperation and the community involvement ensured throughout the process.

The training provided under this program will be available to RCMP members as well as community search volunteers. Search management training for search coordinators will position us to mount well-organized, effective searches whenever a missing persons situation arises.

The department will work closely with the RCMP in planning and offering training opportunities under this initiative and community volunteers will be encouraged to take advantage of the events in their regions. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Member's statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 515

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, today I rise with a heavy heart to make this statement. Yesterday, a spokesperson for the Arctic Winter Games bid committee announced from Whitehorse that the city of Yellowknife will be awarded the 1998 Arctic Winter Games.

Apparently, there was supposed to be a bid process where the communities which were interested in hosting the Arctic Winter Games would prepare a bid, which would be properly evaluated and the best proposal would be accepted. To me, this is a fair process. However, I must contest and state that the whole bid process for selecting a location for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games was not fair. Apparently, the bid which was submitted by the bid committee in Inuvik, was not given a fair evaluation. I am led to believe that the decision to award the games to Yellowknife was already made before the process began.

Madam Speaker, if this was the case, then why didn't the international committee members make this known before proceeding with their charade? Madam Speaker, this government, the town of Inuvik, and the Delta-Beaufort communities were led down the garden path. I know that many of the Members of the Inuvik Arctic Winter Game bid committee now feel betrayed. I think that the international committee should have had the courage to define the minimum requirements and scope required to host the games before requesting bids. If the size of Inuvik was questionable, that should have been indicated at the outset of the process, before letting the people of the region think they had a chance in this bid.

The town of Inuvik prepared an excellent bid package and rolled out the red carpet when members of the international committee came to visit and investigate the town, look at the facilities, meet with the host committee and enjoy the hospitality shown by all residents of Inuvik and the region.

Madam Speaker, I request unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 515

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, my honourable colleagues and Madam Speaker. I have to admit that the town of Inuvik did a bang-up

job and I want to congratulate all the people on the bid committee, all the volunteers, all the residents of Inuvik, all the leaders and residents of the Delta and Beaufort communities, all the businesses and the Government of the Northwest Territories for their support.

Madam Speaker, if the intentions of the Arctic Winter Games International Committee were known before hand, then the Delta and Beaufort communities would probably have not put out the effort which they did. They probably would have done the same amount of work that the city of Yellowknife did to secure this bid. From the information which I have, approximately $70,000 cash and in-kind contributions were expended in preparing Inuvik's bid.

I would like to say that the direction and support which prompted the town of Inuvik to submit a bid came from all the communities in the region. It was several years ago that a motion was passed by the leaders of the Beaufort and Delta communities to prepare to host the 1998 Arctic Winter Games.

Madam Speaker, one had to experience the enthusiasm and support shown by the people of the Beaufort and Delta communities when they hosted the Arctic Winter Games International Committee during the bid days: the young children who sang and danced and paraded; all the school children and teachers; the elders who sang and danced; the Arctic sports athletes who demonstrated their skills; the cooks who prepared the feast; the residents of the long-term care ward of the Inuvik General Hospital; and, just about everyone in Inuvik showed their support. They all made us proud.

Madam Speaker, this government must take a very serious look at what happened during this whole process and, more importantly, must take a long, hard look at the future of the Arctic Winter Games. Not awarding these games to Inuvik means that no small or medium-sized community can ever hope to host future games.

Incidentally, if Inuvik was chosen as a site for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games, this would have been the first time that the games would have been held north of 60.

By the way, I wish to congratulate Yellowknife. Mahsi.

---Applause

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 516

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, this morning I heard the announcement of Yellowknife as the site for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games. While I'm sure the city of Yellowknife will do a fine job of hosting the games, the selection of Yellowknife over Inuvik disturbed me.

Madam Speaker, no one can deny the tremendous effort put forth by the people of Inuvik in trying to prepare a viable bid for the games. They lobbied long and hard, showing great community enthusiasm. They came up with an innovative approach of a split week format which would allow the community to host, even though it doesn't have as many facilities as a larger centre. I'm sure there were many reasons for the decision, but it seems to demonstrate that only the largest northern communities can hold the games.

As I look down the road to Nunavut, this causes me concern. The people of Nunavut have always been proud participants in the games and we would want to take our turn hosting this event. However, the largest community in Nunavut is similar in size to Inuvik. If Inuvik couldn't host the games, is there any hope that Nunavut will be able to some day?

Madam Speaker, I would urge the government, through the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, to pursue this decision with the Arctic Winter Games International Committee. If indeed community size was a major factor in Inuvik not being chosen, I would ask that the international committee review its policies and consider options which would allow smaller communities to host the games.

As Inuvik showed us, these communities are interested and excited about the chance to host the games; let us make sure they have that chance. Thank you.

1998 Arctic Winter Games Site Selection
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 516

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Construction Of Highway Near Jean Marie River
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 516

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Today I rise to offer my thanks on behalf of my constituents on the Department of Transportation's work on the road into Jean Marie River over the past summer construction season. Madam Speaker, only the foreman and the heavy duty mechanic were from outside the community of Jean Marie River. All the rest of the people working on the project were residents of Jean Marie River.

Madam Speaker, the training of the heavy equipment operators involved in this project is being done by a couple of residents of this community. So as you see, Madam Speaker, this construction is not only providing economic opportunities for the residents of this community -- Jean Marie River -- it's also providing training with many results of employment on other projects in the area.

Seven kilometres of the 27 kilometres needed to connect Jean Marie River to the NWT highway systems were completed this past summer. Under the Department of Transportation's community access road program, the highway will be upgraded to a fair weather road over the course of the next four years.

I would like again to thank the Department of Transportation for its commitment to the community of Jean Marie River, and congratulations to the residents of Jean Marie in being involved in the construction, and for their hard work and dedication. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Construction Of Highway Near Jean Marie River
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Sanikiluaq Community Hall
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to express the concerns of the residents of Sanikiluaq. I have expressed this concern before. They had requested funding for a community hall. The present community hall is quite small and it was built in 1973, so it's pretty old now. It's getting too small for their population. The population of Sanikiluaq is around 500 now.

Madam Speaker, they have made an application for funding to the government and they have already made a commitment in the community to put aside funding for a community hall, and they would like to have this priority set for capital funding.

They are requesting funding on behalf of Sanikiluaq to get funding for a community hall. They had gotten an arena; now we're requesting that a funding priority is set for a community hall for Sanikiluaq. Thank you.

---Applause

Sanikiluaq Community Hall
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South. Or, Yellowknife South, I'm sorry, Mr. Whitford.

Business Incentive Policy
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Oh, that's ominous. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, a number of years ago the Government of the Northwest Territories introduced the business incentive policy, better known as BIP. The government's intention was to encourage greater government spending in the north by making northern bids on government contracts more attractive. However, since this policy was introduced, there has been a constant struggle over the exact definition of a northern company. It seems that the initial policy laid down some criteria which would define a northern company. Then some companies, which many think of as southern, found ways to meet these criteria and qualified for preference under the policy. So the government added more criteria and some southern companies found new ways to jump through those hoops as well, and so on and so on.

Now we have a complicated policy that frustrates northern business people twice: once, when they have to fill out all the forms and once again, when a contract goes to someone who is just going to have a bunch of southerners doing the jobs anyway.

I would encourage the government to strongly consider starting from scratch, start from the ground up and make a new policy that will be simple and effective, because if the current complicated and probably ineffective policy is all we have, we might as well just get rid of it and forget about the whole thing. Madam Speaker, thank you.

Business Incentive Policy
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 517

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, just about 30 years ago, the forerunner to today's Dene Nation, the Indian Brotherhood, was formed. The brotherhood was created to negotiate with the federal government the issue of land ownership and native self-government. Over the course of the next few years, position papers were developed, and in the early 1970s, a formal position paper was presented to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs; at that time, the Honourable Warren Allmand. Mr. Allmand agreed with most of the positions that the Dene Nation had taken, especially with regard to native self-government consideration. Mr. Allmand was switched to another portfolio in the next Cabinet shuffle, and the Dene Nation had to start all over again.

The process continued through the rest of the 1970s and 1980s, until finally the Dene Nation had signed an agreement with the federal government in April of 1990.

Madam Speaker, during the ratification vote held in Dettah during the Dene National Assembly in July of 1990, the Deh Cho delegates felt they had no option but to reject the proposed final agreement. The major reasons, Madam Speaker, that the Deh Cho delegates rejected the proposed agreement was the federal government's insistence to tie the final agreement to the extinguishment of treaties and aboriginal rights previously negotiated.

Madam Speaker, the elders and leaders from the Deh Cho felt that the right to self-government was not something that could be left at the table. It is the basis for the goals and aspirations of the Dene in the Deh Cho region. Naturally, Madam Speaker, this left the doors open for each of the regions in the western territories to negotiate their own separate, comprehensive land claim agreements; something that nobody objected to.

The political reality of 1990 meant that there was no hope of the Conservative government changing its position on the extinguishment of treaty rights as a precondition of negotiating land claim settlements. It was decided, Madam Speaker, to await the results of the next federal election before the Deh Cho entered into a land selection process. It must be remembered, Madam Speaker, that self-government is not up for negotiation, as it is already a right under Treaty 11 and has been recognized by the federal government by virtue of the negotiated agreements...

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Gargan, your time has lapsed. Mr. Gargan.

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue with his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 518

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker, honourable Members. Treaties were agreements between two sovereign nations. Madam Speaker, yesterday marked the one-year anniversary of the Liberals taking over the governing of Canada. The platform of the Liberals, as outlined in the red book, recognizes natives' inherent right to self-government. I can only hope that, when the Minister comes north to speak to this Assembly, he has positive news for the people of Deh Cho with regard to their right to self-government. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Self-government For The People Of Deh Cho
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 206-12(6): Status Of Revision Of GNWT Staff Housing Strategy
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is in response to Mr. Ng's question on October 20, 1994 about the status of revisions to the GNWT long-term staff housing strategy. It appears that my use of the word "review" during the last session has created some misunderstanding. When I indicated on February 15th that I would like to get the input of each MLA as part of the review, I was referring to a review of the staff housing situation in each community. I did not intend that I would be reviewing the whole strategy.

As I previously indicated in letter to each MLA, once the current round of sales is complete, we need to determine if there are any surplus housing units in any community. If there are any surplus units, then I plan to meet with individual MLAs to discuss various options by which we can dispose of them.

I have also considered the special needs of some employees who were unable to take advantage of the current sales program because of circumstances beyond their control. With advice and input from individual MLAs, I reviewed each of these circumstances and, where appropriate, recommended to Cabinet that exceptions to the sales criteria be approved.

Madam Speaker, while I have no plans to sponsor any revisions to the strategy, I am willing to review concerns over the implementation and impact of the strategy. Thank you.

Return To Question 206-12(6): Status Of Revision Of GNWT Staff Housing Strategy
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, since the Arctic Winter Games began in 1970, their main objective was to involve as many athletes as possible in the games and in the trials leading to the selection of the Arctic Winter Games team. Most of this competition was in the spirit of friendliness, especially for those athletes who weren't considered elite athletes, who we feel are better able to find competitive opportunities in the south.

Given the department's close affiliation and support of Arctic Winter Games, I would like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs to advise me if this is still the philosophy behind the Arctic Winter Games.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am informed that is still the philosophy of the Arctic Winter Games. Thank you.

Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Does the Government of the Northwest Territories have any influence over the direction and current philosophy of the Arctic Winter Games?

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is the responsibility of the board of directors of the Arctic Winter Games. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. It is my understanding that this government contributes financially towards the Arctic Winter Games. I would like to ask the Minister, how much money does the Government of the Northwest Territories contribute towards the Arctic Winter Games.

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Madam Speaker, in 1994, for the Arctic Winter Games in Slave Lake, GNWT grants over two years were $497,000. The balance of the $1,249,683 expenditures for the 1994 games came from lottery revenues, which were $717,000, and registration fees and donations totalling $185,684. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. This government also spends money, through Sport North, I believe, on Arctic Winter Games trials. These are trials held in each region to select athletes for the final selection process. How much money does this government contribute to the Arctic Winter Games trials?

Supplementary To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. For the 1994 budget for regional trials, the available dollars were $273,000 and the actuals in 1994 were $274,073. For territorial trials, the financing was $222,208; commercial, $42,613; charters, $336,113; and, accommodation, $26,568. For the games positioning and charters, $66,040 and $122,405 were spent. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Question 246-12(6): Philosophy Behind Arctic Winter Games
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs with regard to Arctic Winter Games. Support can be provided to international games through dollars, however, it can also come in the form of in-kind support, such as staff, facilities and equipment besides actual dollars. I would like to ask the Minister, in what other ways does the Government of the Northwest Territories support the Arctic Winter Games International Committee? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The in-kind services include providing office space and volunteer workers. I cannot list all of them, but I know that the in-kind services that were provided were $500,000 in 1990. Thank you.

Return To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister indicated that she cannot list all the in-kind services. I would like to ask if she could provide that in-kind service information to the House, so we all know what type of services we provide. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would be more than happy to provide the information the Member is asking for.

Further Return To Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Question 247-12(6): Support For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs in relation to the Arctic Winter Games process. The Arctic Winter Games International Committee has representatives from Alaska, Alberta, Greenland, the Yukon and the NWT. I would like to the Minister how the representatives from the Northwest Territories are chosen to sit on this committee. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I believe this government appoints the representatives on the Arctic Winter Games International Committee. Thank you.

Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, what are the terms of the appointments for these members who are appointed by our government. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I don't have the terms of reference with me, but I will provide this House with the information. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would also like to ask the Minister, for these representatives, is she going to outline to us what relationship they have with the government in representing us on this committee.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Madam Speaker, the one representative does not have a relationship with this government and the other is an employee of the Department of MACA.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister, of our representatives on the Arctic Winter Games International Committee, did they participate in the decision for the awarding of the 1998 Arctic Winter Games.

Supplementary To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am informed by my department that the decision for them not to participate in the process for reviewing the bid to host the Arctic Winter Games for 1998 was made in Slave Lake last winter. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Question 248-12(6): Selection Process For Awg International Committee
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. The question I have is to the Minister of MACA. As we all are aware, Yellowknife was the successful bidder for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games. There is always speculation regarding why one community was chosen over another. Is the Minister aware of the reasons Yellowknife was selected over Inuvik?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of MACA, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am sorry, I cannot respond to the question as yet because our representatives from the NWT for the Arctic Winter Games were not involved in the selection of the place for the Arctic Winter Games for 1998.

Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. She will probably find out that in the NWT, Inuvik is one of our largest centres. Although Inuvik is a lot smaller than the biggest community, they made their bid to the committee. Does the Minister support innovative approaches which will allow smaller communities to successfully bid for the Arctic Winter Games in the future?

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Member's concern is a concern of mine as well. The Arctic Winter Games committee that selected the community is not appropriate for me as well. They did not represent the wishes of the GNWT. We had already wanted to select Inuvik for the 1998 Arctic Winter Games. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister for the response she has made. What specific action will the Minister take to ensure that flexibility is built into the selection process allowing smaller communities to successfully bid on the games?

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is also a concern of mine. The Arctic Winter Games committee's decisions, in selecting the place, was not appropriate for me, but I would like Alberta, Yukon, NWT and Greenland Ministers to meet with me in this regard. It is not just my concern, but it is a concern of the NWT government as well. After meeting with those Ministers, if the concerns I raise are not met or we cannot come to an agreement on this matter, the direction of the games will have to be looked at. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Arvaluk.

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 520

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Madam Speaker, qujannamiik. (Translation) When will you be getting in touch with the other Ministers?

How soon will you be meeting with the other Ministers? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister from the Yukon has been notified by telephone about my concern; the Honourable Bill Brewster. But apparently he was in the Baffin region at the time, and I spoke with the acting Minister, the Honourable Doug Phillips. I have talked to him about my concern with regard to the committee's selection.

I tried to contact the Alberta Minister yesterday but he was apparently at a meeting and he hasn't returned my call. I will try to get in touch with the other Minister and I would like to meet with them as soon as I can. But I will have to talk with the Alaskan and the Greenland Ministers as well. I am hoping I will meet with them on this matter over the coming winter months. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Question 249-12(6): Reasons For Selection Of Yellowknife For Awg Site
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, earlier on, I spoke about the intent and objectives of the BIP and mentioned some of the problems that the program faces with people trying to find ways to circumvent it. But I think more important is the intention of BIP: to keep the money in the territories where it belongs, and to stimulate business and create jobs. I have a question for the Minister of Public Works and Services, based on that, Madam Premier; since the program has been running, I think the government is strongly behind it and I think a lot of Members and myself are. But I would like to know if the government has been keeping track of how much extra it has spent on government contracts since the introduction of the business incentive policy.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In some cases, it's hard to determine what the extra cost is on the business incentive policy because they are all northerners who have bid. The policy, when originally developed, was to encourage people to open offices in the Northwest Territories and to develop business in the Northwest Territories and to achieve the majority of that quite rapidly. Right now, the majority of our contracts do go to northerners and it is because the business incentive policy is in place. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Madam Speaker, the Minister has indicated how the program functions. I just wonder if he would be able to give us some idea of how this feedback comes back to the government. He mentioned that several businesses seemed to function well on it. I just wondered what kind of feedback system he has to give him those indicators.

Supplementary To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. When there was no business incentive policy in place, the majority of the work, I believe, was going to southern contractors. We keep track of who gets the work, and the percentage of work now going to northern contracts is up in the 90 some per cent range. So that clearly indicates that the policy has worked to encourage a contract to go to a northerner. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, if I were to ask a written question later, would the Minister be able to provide that kind of information to show how much we've benefitted from this? Does he have that kind of information available?

Supplementary To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. If the Member chooses to ask a written question, I'll respond to it in the time frame allotted by the rules. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Question 250-12(6): Extra Costs Of Applying Bip
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier. I would like to ask, is the department considering amendments to the social assistance rates in the near future, because the last time these rates were looked at was over one year ago. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 521

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, at the present time, no.

Return To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask then, recognizing that food costs have gone up in the communities -- they certainly haven't been lowered -- is she willing to take a look at these social assistance rates in the near future. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Social Services, Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, certainly it's an ongoing issue on how we handle health and social service issues, the social service food basket as well as how we handle training and education training program funds. So I think it's all part of what we're trying to do in terms of addressing, in the most positive way that we can, the handling of allowances for people who can survive to take a productive role in society. As well, while we're doing that, certainly the cost of living is considered and we'll take another look at that. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Question 251-12(6): Social Assistance Rate Amendments
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice. The Minister of Justice is aware of a recent Supreme Court decision, which says that a person can't be given a breathalyser unless they have time to talk to a lawyer. I just want to ask the Minister of Justice, what is the departmental response to that particular Supreme Court decision.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, there is concern all across the country about the possible implications of this recent court decision. There are some discussions, presently, with the federal Department of Justice as to how to clearly define what the implications of the court decision are. If they are as extremely negative as some interest groups would articulate, then to look at some possible remedies that could address the negative follow-up of the court decision. And the discussions are ongoing. Thank you.

Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. In the Minister of Justice's discussions with the federal Minister, perhaps the Minister could outline to us some possible remedies to this situation that have been indicated to the federal Minister of Justice.

Supplementary To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the Member would only have me speculating at this time about possible remedies. It is rather premature to make suggestions at this time. I would suggest that I will try to get into substantive discussions with the federal Department of Justice and share these with the Member as soon as they are of a substantive nature. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. That answer, Madam Speaker, is satisfactory. I just want to ask for the Minister's assurances that as soon as there are substantive discussions taking place and substantive options, he'll bring them to the attention of this House. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, within the next week or two, or as soon as we develop a substantive response that is mutually shared with the federal Department of Justice, I will share it with the Members. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Question 252-12(6): Departmental Response To Supreme Court Decision Re Breathalysers
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 522

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health on a long outstanding issue. This is the issue of Metis health benefits. There has been considerable work done over the last few years in enumerating the Metis by the Metis Nation and trying to determine the numbers of people involved. The whole issue of Metis health benefits is trying to provide benefits to Metis people equal to those of Inuit and treaty people.

My question to the Minister of Health is, what is the status of the review on Metis health benefits.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, as the Member has indicated, this is a long outstanding issue and we feel we have a good working relationship with the Metis Association to determine what it is, in terms of financial obligations, that would be placed on the already-strained health budget. To do a historical summing-up of what has been done, we had a contribution agreement of $200,000 between ourselves and the Metis Nation, then there was a further extension of $57,000 which was given in September of 1994. As of July, the enumeration was reported to be 80 per cent complete, with a population of 3,358.

What we are doing is continuing to deal with the matter. We expect to continue to have a working dialogue with the Metis Nation to see how we could achieve the extended benefits for the Metis of the Northwest Territories, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. It is a long outstanding issue. Does the Minister have a time frame for trying to resolve this problem?

Supplementary To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I hope that the conclusion can be reached somewhere between now and the beginning of the new financial year. However, that is dependant on whether we can get a right mix of options of how to handle it and who is to be covered. As you know, Madam Speaker, there is an argument about what group of Metis we're considering. That would have a great bearing on what financial resources would be required. As well as what type of plan, who administers it, and what is the best, most efficient, effective and financially-responsible way of dealing with this outstanding issue.

I would like to say that the biggest concern was the number of people and who they were, so we can begin to work out the financial issues and come to some resolution; hopefully, in part at least, by April 1, 1995.

Further Return To Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Question 253-12(6): Status Of Review On Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, my question is for the chairman of the Financial Management Board. Madam Speaker, last Friday, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment told the House that the formula for allocating the Canada/NWT infrastructure agreement was negotiated by the Financial Management Board Secretariat. I was wondering if the chair of the Financial Management Board could confirm that the FMBS did in fact develop a formula.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Good afternoon. Madam Speaker, it was negotiated by the Department of Finance for the Government of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Supplementary, to the Minister. Can the Minister confirm that the formula was; the number of unemployed people in a given community, divided by the number of unemployed people in the Northwest Territories, multiplied by the total amounts of funds available for all communities, except those who are the cap or the floors? There is a cap, I understand, of $1 million in one community and floors of $25,000 and $50,000 in other communities. Would the Minister confirm if that was the formula used throughout the territories?

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, it was allocated using not employed by community, divided by not employed by NWT, multiplied by the $3.5 million. Not employed refers to the count of persons 15 years of age and over who were not employed at the time of the 1991 Census and final allocations were then adjusted based on the results of the 1994 NWT labour force survey. Then, the final allocation of the total amount available for the program was also adjusted so that the maximum share allocated to a community is $500,000, the minimum share allocated to a community is $12,500 in communities with less than 100 persons 15 years of age and over, and $25,000 in communities with 100 persons or more 15 years of age and over. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 523

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Supplementary, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, that was my understanding of the formula, so I sought out the 1994 labour survey numbers and picked a few communities just to see whether or not the formula actually worked. I found that, according to that formula, Rankin Inlet

should have received $235,291. But, my understanding is Rankin received $314,684.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Another community I picked was Baker Lake. Baker Lake, according to the formula and my understanding of it, should have received $299,290 but it received $325,071.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Some Hon. Members

Shame, shame.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

There are other examples. Another one that really stands out, Madam Speaker, is Hay River. Hay River should have received $572,227 but it only got $473,553; a shortage of almost $100,000.

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Speaker, I don't understand how this formula works. I'm not a great mathematician, but I can take the formula I was given, take the numbers that were supplied by the Department of Statistics and when I do the multiplication, it doesn't work out. Can the Minister explain to me how to make these numbers match with the allocations?

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

Supplementary To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, what I will do is ask the Department of Education and the Department of Finance to get together and actually come up with a working document so that we can see how each community was calculated, and I will draw that to the attention of this House by tabling those documents in the House, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Question 254-12(6): Development Of Formula For Allocating Infrastructure Agreement
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of Health and Social Services. It seems like there won't be an increase in the assistance that is given to the recipients, because back east the prices of food are skyrocketing and there are a lot of unemployed people who get assistance. When there are a large number of people in a household, it's not enough. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services, is there an increase in the recipients who need assistance, or are there any surveys done at all on those who get assistance from Social Services. Nowadays, the amount they get is not sufficient, and maybe there should be a study done to see if there's an increase in the recipients who get assistance. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Social Services, Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I know that we have some process ongoing looking at this issue, so I will take that question as notice. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question to address to the Minister of Renewable Resources. They had tabled a document on search and rescue, and they had set aside some funding for training rescue specialists. They don't just deal on the land. Some who go out on the land have to be rescued. In some communities, the boating season is very short. We would like to see some training available for land rescue as well as sea rescue. Is that going to be included in that rescue course?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources.

Return To Question 256-12(6): Training For Land-based Search And Rescue Operations
Question 256-12(6): Training For Land-based Search And Rescue Operations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Under a Minister's statement for rescue service, for ice and sea as well, as Mr. Pudluk knows, during spring as well as during freeze-up there are usually some people who go through the ice. It's possible to have the marine rescue training include search and rescue training on the ice. Thank you.

Return To Question 256-12(6): Training For Land-based Search And Rescue Operations
Question 256-12(6): Training For Land-based Search And Rescue Operations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, earlier on, in my Member's statement, I mentioned that the Department of Public Works was undertaking a consultation process to review the BIP. Some people have expressed concern with the methods that may be used, or perhaps maybe they don't understand what the methods are going to be. I would like to ask the Minister, how is he going to carry out this study and what kind of a consultation process does he intend to use.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. You asked two questions in one. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 524

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. During the consultation process, we will be using independent consultants from the regions to consult with businesses, hamlet councils, local band councils and everybody else who has to be involved in this consultation process. We are also required, under land claims agreements, to consult with land claims organizations like the Sahtu, the Gwich'in and the Inuit people, to ensure that they're involved in any major change to any major government policy.

The general message that I've gotten from people in the communities and business people, everyone I've talked to so far has been positive about the consultation process. They like the idea that independent consultants will be consulting with them, with the support of DPW staff. The majority of the people I've heard from are in great support of this consultation process, except for the Northwest Territories Construction Association. The executive director is the only one who is dissatisfied with it. Thank you.

Return To Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 525

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
Question 257-12(6): Consultation Process For Bip Review
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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm puzzled as to what the definition of an independent consultant is. I thought that consultants were generally independent. They were a business that is set up to do a particular type of job. Is there a difference between an independent consultant and a consultant?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The idea of hiring consultants is so that the Department of Public Works staff is not doing the consulting; they're there as technical support people. An independent consultant who does not work for the department as an employee would be consulting with the people in the regions. That's how it is to be set up. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thought a consultant was a person who owned a business, who was in a business of consulting particular items and was set up to do this kind of thing. I'm sort of getting the feeling that it's just going to be anybody, but I just want to clarify this with the Minister. Is this going to be a registered business, a consultant firm, or an independent individual; somebody in business to do the job, already, not just anybody unless they're registered, unless they're a business? Is this a business they're talking about?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not saying that this would happen or the Department of Public Works civil servants would do this, but in some cases when people develop a paper they become possessive of it. Or when they're supposed to be going out to consult, they go out to defend the paper. That's not the case, I did not want that to happen. In this case, the Department of Public Works drafted a new business incentive policy. It's clearly by my direction that it goes out to consultation in draft form so that we can get the good ideas of the business people out there and the community groups, and implement that in a new draft. The best way to do that is to have an independent consultant to facilitate in the communities. We will be going to request for proposals for regional facilitators. That will appear in the newspapers in the next couple of weeks. I'm sure they will have business licences and all the instruments involved in running that type of business.

It will clearly be an independent process, with technical help from DPW so that we can document the good recommendations from the communities and the regions. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I may have gone off an a bit of a tangent here, but I just wanted assurance that the people who will be responding to these proposals will be bona fide northern business people and will meet the necessary requirements to run this business. I just wanted the assurance that they would be business people, small or big.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We will ensure that all businesses, small or big, will have an opportunity to respond to the draft business incentive policy. Many have gone out in the mail already, I believe, to the communities and the regions so they have the document ahead of time. I'm looking forward to hearing from them so we draft a business incentive policy that will be simple but yet will close the loopholes there now that allow southern businesses to take advantage of the policy. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and it is, again, with regard to the Arctic Winter Games. Madam Speaker, in international Olympics or even the Commonwealth Games, communities are informed probably five to eight years ahead about which community has been successful in being selected. That is required time for them to put in the infrastructure and organize the necessary volunteers, and everything else involved in order to be successful in hosting the games.

There is usually also a time lapse, so that if they don't think they can meet up to standards, they still have the option to withdraw and allow another community to host it. I would think that process is also used by the Arctic Winter Games. Ian Legaree and Don Cooper are both from Yellowknife and they are both on the selection board.

I know Don Cooper used to be one of the lawyers in this Assembly and he knows a lot about conflict of interest rules. So, I'm just wondering whether or not, in this case, the two members who are serving on the board and representing the Northwest Territories were there to make the decision to select Yellowknife, or if they withdrew because of the possible conflict they might have.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am informed that Mr. Cooper declined to be involved in the selection of the 1998 AWG host community because Mr. Cooper is legal counsel for both the city of Yellowknife and the town of Inuvik. He felt there was a conflict of interest and a situation might arise. That was his reason.

Mr. Ian Legaree also declined to be involved in the selection because in his role as a member of the Arctic Winter Games International Committee, Mr. Legaree strongly supported and promoted the concept of moving the games into smaller NWT communities. And, also as a director of sports and recreation for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Legaree works closely with both communities. He felt support for one would damage his working relationship with the other. So that was another conflict situation which arose. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister whether the decision was made on the spur of the moment, or did they think down the road five years to 1998, when the Arctic Winter Games are to be held, and didn't expect the town of Inuvik to meet up to the obligations of hosting the games.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would love to answer the Member's question. But, as a result of the absence in that selection of our representatives, I cannot respond to his question. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I didn't hear why she couldn't respond to my question. I know the decision was made because they said Inuvik was too small. I wanted to ask the Minister if it is because they just didn't think that five years down the road Inuvik could meet up to its obligations to hold it.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. What I was saying is that, because we didn't have representatives in that selection, sitting there and participating during that process, I cannot respond to the Member's question. I would just be speculating as to how the selection was arrived at. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Final supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

So, is the Minister taking the question as notice, then?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Mike.

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will take it as notice.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I note that on Saturday, October 22nd, there was a call for proposals put out by the Department of Finance that appeared in the Edmonton Journal on page B-12. The proposal calls for a study of financing alternatives for education in local government programs and services. I would like to ask our Premier, is it the intention that this study examine the financing of education throughout the territories, including the local school boards.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I will take the question as notice.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions.

Speaker's Ruling

Prior to going to written questions, I would like to advise the House that I've reviewed Written Question 17-12(6), posed yesterday by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North. In reviewing Written Question 17-12(6), the way the question is worded appears to make it a hypothetical question. Therefore, I've decided to rule the question out of order.

Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will try it again. I will ask the question of the Minister of Finance this time.

Would the Minister of Finance please advise this House of the following:

1. What would be the impact on power rates throughout the Northwest Territories of a 22 per cent low water surcharge on the Snare system?

2. What would be the impact on the power subsidy paid by the GNWT of a 22 per cent low water surcharge?

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Would the Minister responsible for the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs please advise this House of the following:

What is the total financial contribution from this government and, specifically, from the Department of MACA in relation to the Arctic Winter Games, this includes the AWG trials:

a)1990 - actual;

b)1992 - actual;

c)1994 - actual;

d)1996 - estimated; and,

e)1998 - estimated.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Minister of Public Works and Services please advise the House of the following:

What are the total annual costs since implementation of the business incentive policy, as calculated by summing the difference between amounts paid on government contracts to qualified businesses and what would have been paid to the lowest unqualified bidder?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Would the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs please provide the following information:

What are the total financial contributions from Sport North to Arctic Winter Games, this includes the AWG trials:

a)1990 - actual;

b)1992 - actual;

c)1994 - actual;

d)1996 - estimated; and,

e)1998 - estimated.

Mahsi.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 42-12(6), Interim Financial Report of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the year ended March 31, 1994. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

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Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you. At this time, I would like to table Tabled Document 43-12(6), a letter sent to me from the Alcohol Education Committee concerning two things: getting a building and getting a secretary. Thank you.

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Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1,

1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; and, Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Good afternoon. The committee will now come to order. Prior to getting into the business of the committee of the whole, I have a ruling to make which deals with yesterday's proceedings.

Chairman's Ruling

Prior to proceeding with business in committee today, I would like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised by the Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

A point of order was raised by Mr. Kakfwi during discussions of the Department of Health and Social Services capital appropriations. To remind Members, Mr. Kakfwi's point of order is contained on page 1236 of the unedited Hansard. And I quote, "Mr. Chairman, the previous speaker, Mr. Ng, from where I am sitting, appeared to be imputing a motive that perhaps the Minister or this government were allocating capital money and priorizing based on Ministers' ridings.

"I raise it as a point of order for two things: one, it's imputing a motive and two, it's raising the issue that has done a disservice to my community of Fort Norman once already in the fall of 1992. It appears to be raising it's ugly head again, so I want to raise this as a point of order."

I apologize, I said 1992, it should be, "1991. It's appears to be raising it's ugly head again, so I want to raise this as a point of order."

To put this point of order in context, I feel that it is important to comment on the remarks made by the honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng, on which the point of order was raised. Mr. Ng's comments are contained on page 1234 of the unedited Hansard, and I quote those as well.

"When I first learned of the deletion of the Gjoa Haven residence -- which affected the Kitikmeot because there is no form of elders' support at all in the whole region -- I seriously considered putting forward a motion for deletion of the Fort Resolution and Fort Norman elders' residences. The way I perceived it, it was unfair of the government. It may have been coincidence, but these are two Ministers' ridings and the needs of a have-not region, the Kitikmeot -- which has always been a have-not region -- were being neglected again."

The point of order raised by Mr. Kakfwi is addressed under rule 23(i) which states, "In debate a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member imputes false or hidden motives to another Member." It is always difficult for the chair to rule on this type of matter. The chair should not be placed in the position of having to interpret any of the comments made by a Member. However, it is the chair's responsibility to call a

Member to order if there is a clear and explicit comment or comments made that would be an infraction of rule 23 (i).

In reviewing the Hansard, I am of the opinion that the comments made by Mr. Ng were not explicit enough to be an infraction of this rule, as his comments were prefaced with, "the way I perceived it" and, "it may have been coincidence." Therefore, Mr. Kakfwi does not have a point of order on his first issue.

However, as we are all honourable Members, I would caution all Members to be conscientious of their comments made in debate, so as to ensure that another Member doesn't misunderstand their comments and intentions. As to his second issue that gave rise to the point of order, it is clear that there is no point of order on the issue, as this was just a point of debate.

Therefore, Mr. Kakfwi, I find that you don't have a point of order.

What is the wish of the committee for today? The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that the committee resume consideration of Committee Report 10-12(6) and Bill 1, specifically dealing with the Department of Health and Social Services budget. And, if we conclude that department, I recommend that move into consideration of Bill 3 and perhaps, depending on how long that takes, we might even get into Public Works and Services in the budget later on this afternoon.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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Some Hon. Members

Department Of Health And Social Services

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The chair recognizes the Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

We don't have any problem with the batting order, as it were, Mr. Chairman. But we would request, respectfully, a meeting of the Minister of Health and, in particular, Mr. Lewis, prior to Bill 3 being discussed, just for a few minutes to discuss it. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

This is not a decision that the committee need make, Mr. Pollard; it can be done between the two parties. Mr. Gargan had his hand up. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I don't mind deferring it and continuing with the budget if the government is having some problems that haven't been resolved. I thought they were

resolved so we suggested deliberation of the Guardianship and Trusteeship Act. But, if the government is not prepared, we can continue with Public Works.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. The committee will consider that when it comes to that particular stage of the process. We will continue with Bill 1. The Minister responsible for Health and Social Services will again, with your permission, take the witness chair.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. Sergeant-at-Arms, please assist the Minister.

Your witnesses are on their way, Madam Premier. As a matter of fact, one is here. Madam Premier, are you prepared to introduce your witnesses?

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, at the moment, Mr. Ed Norwich.

Community Development

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Welcome, Mr. Norwich to the committee of the whole. When we concluded yesterday's business, we were on page 12-18, detail of capital for Health and Social Services. I was at the point of total buildings and works, $3.320 million. The chair recognizes Mr. Zoe, Mr. Dent and then Mr. Gargan.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yesterday before we concluded, the Premier indicated she would be providing additional information in committee of the whole with respect to the issue we were considering at that time, the elders' residence in Fort Resolution. I wonder if the Premier has that information with her this afternoon. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. I will ascertain if that's available. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have the information. I will provide the information and, hopefully, it will be satisfactory.

Mr. Chairman, the building is in sound condition and would require little or no renovations. However, it is not adequate for elders because there is poor access. The entrances are raised high off the ground, there is no common area, it cannot accommodate level II patients, the rooms are for single individuals, and there are no additional rooms for adopted grandchildren of the elders.

Mr. Chairman, a program has been arrived at, in consultation with the community. The department is still discussing the operation of a coordinated home care program from the proposed building. The size and configuration of the proposed new building, arrived at in consultation with the community, taking into consideration the community needs assessment, is for six separate, independent living units; two beds for 24-hour long-term care; and, two beds for respite care.

The occupancy proposed is that two elders would fill the 24-hour long-term beds; two respite beds will be temporarily occupied by a number of elders who require ongoing care to give care givers a rest; and, six independent living units will be filled by elders who are currently living with families in town, or who are in units that are housing units which are much larger than they need.

Fort Resolution has a long waiting list of residents who need public housing and the units vacated by the elders who moved to the seniors' facilities will relieve overcrowding in the community. So, as I stated yesterday, it would be combined and put into the common housing pool.

The department provides all of the operating funds for the care centre, but not the independent living units. The cost of operating this facility will be $400,000.

Mr. Chairman, I went a little bit further in explaining the old facility and what is proposed so that people get an idea of how it fits into the overall planning of housing for the community of Fort Resolution. Thank you.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Premier. Before we continue, would you be so kind as to introduce your second witness who has just arrived.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Ken Lovely, deputy minister of Health and Social Services.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Welcome, Mr. Lovely. The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I think the Premier has outlined the need for this facility, and I don't think that anybody is denying that the need is there. I think that the Standing Committee on Finance last year -- I know Mr. Lovely will remember this -- was very concerned that there wasn't an overall look at the Northwest Territories, or a needs assessment, to determine where the needs were greatest to put in this kind of facility. I guess a concern still has to be with the process.

A couple of things I would like to bring up that I would like the Premier to address...During the SCOF review last year, the previous Minister assured us that, for instance, the Fort Resolution project would not proceed unless Mr. Morin was successful in reinstating CMHC funding. That was on October 21st. And on October 22, 1993, we received a letter from the chairman of the Financial Management Board who advised us that it was understood that only $972,000 of GNWT money would go towards this facility, and the balance would be funded through a conventional mortgage arranged by Social Services and the local non-profit organization. Now the budget has changed significantly from that $972,000 that we saw last year, and I don't see any reference to a third-party mortgage.

So we've had a couple of things happen here. We've had, one, a promise that it wouldn't proceed unless we got funding reinstated. Then the next day we were told that even if funding wasn't reinstated, there was only a certain amount of money that was committed by this government; the balance would be coming from elsewhere. What's happened to change this because I see the amount of money we're talking about now is considerably more than the $972,000 we were talking about last year.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, with regard to this particular facility, I think that there are a lot of questions, overall planning and approaches that we have to look at. However, I believe that in taking a look at the various options that are available to us that, in order not to disrupt service, some things have to continue in the process and not be deferred because we're looking at an overall approach. So there are some specific programs that have to be taken care of, but it's not in the absence of the fact that we have to take a look at the overall requirements of the Northwest Territories; what is needed and what type of facilities are needed. So that's not an initiative or a commitment that is being put aside in the absence of just going ahead with one of these projects. It appears that this was the most effective way at this point in time to deal with this facility. I believe it's just the ongoing programs that we have, but we still have to look at the more visionary overall approach; we have to take to look at all communities and what their needs are, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I get, from the Minister's answer that, to date -- although we were told a year ago that the department was working on it -- there still has not been a territories-wide needs assessment of where elders facilities should be placed. Is that true?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

(Microphone turned off)...if the deputy minister has anything to add. My understanding is that in the housing needs study, the questions on the housing needs also identified housing requirements for elders or aging people. In the study itself or in the questionnaire, we have the information on the general scope of requirements. I would think that our second step now is to find out basically what are we talking about: if we have 20 people in a community who are between the ages of 50 to 75 -- this is an example -- does it have level I or level II requirements, and what are the general trends. I don't think that part of it is nailed down yet. We know what the age groups are that require housing; we know the number of dependants that certain families have, but we haven't really broken down what level of care is required in those communities.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I had thought that the Premier had said that she was going to ask Mr. Lovely to provide further details.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Dent, you're quite correct, it's just that the answer was so long I thought perhaps she had taken it upon herself. My apologies. The chair recognizes the deputy minister, Mr. Lovely.

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Lovely

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some of that additional information will be available from the needs assessments that are being completed by the health boards as we speak. We are starting to get the information that allows us to differentiate the levels of care that are needed. We'll be a lot further ahead in that regard at the end of this year, and that should help us to pinpoint the exact locations where this is needed.

At the same time, we're working with the Housing Corporation -- I think that may have been mentioned earlier in the House -- to develop a strategy for satisfying the housing needs of elders. That's scheduled to be tabled in this House at the next session of the Legislative Assembly. That should provide a clear picture of who has responsibility for what aspects of the housing program and how the needs will be satisfied. Thank you.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Lovely. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I ask specifically, what happened to the plan to have the shortfall, between the $972,000 and the cost of the Fort Resolution elders' residence, financed by conventional mortgage? As I had mentioned, the Standing Committee on Finance was advised by the chairman of the Financial Management Board that that was the plan last year.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I know that the figures indicate a different process of how we're going to do it on a fully-funded operation; however, as there are several other requests and needs that have to be met, that is still an option. That option has not been discarded. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Premier. The chair now recognizes Mr. Gargan, Member for Deh Cho.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, just for clarification of the process, last year, in the five-year forecast, there was $100,000 designated for Gjoa Haven for, I guess, planning and design. Was there an amount designated under planning and design for Gjoa Haven for the senior citizens' home?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated earlier, the Gjoa Haven facility was, at one time, in the budget and therefore planning money was also in the budget at that time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Last year, there was $100,000 approved then, for planning and design. What happened to that allocation?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, the officials here say it is still in the budget.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

I'm sorry, Madam Premier, we didn't get the last part of your remarks. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

It is still in the budget, as it was previously in 1994-95.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

With regard to the senior citizens' home in Fort Providence, on numerous occasions, I requested renovations to the cluster units; there are four of them. There are four single-bedroom units. Each two-bedroom unit has a kitchen, bathroom, but no common room area. I was told they want to keep that because of the level of acute care.

Given that we are pressed for dollars for renovations, I was wondering if it is realistic for the community of Fort Providence to have level II care at the senior citizens' home, without it costing this government a lot of dollars. I know that, previously, when seniors were too old to care for themselves, they were sent to Hay River.

I'm wondering if, with level II care, you need an extra professional do deal with those elders.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, I know I always get confused about what is level I, level II and level III. I think the honourable Member is talking about level III care. I have said to Members here that I want you to be sure I am working with the Minister responsible for Housing. I specifically asked what kind of action we could take with the Fort Providence senior citizens' home. I asked that question yesterday and I got an answer yesterday.

What the Minister of Housing has indicated to me is that he has directed his officials at the corporation to develop a request for funding from CMHC, to conduct renovations at the seniors' facility. He did that on October 7, 1994. Mr. Morin believes it is important that the health officials consult with the elders in Fort Providence to see if there is a need for level I or level II care. With level II care, one caretaker is required. It is not as extreme as level III where, generally, elders are referred to Yellowknife or some major centre.

Mr. Morin has indicated that before resources are spent on renovations, he wants to determine that there will not be a need in the foreseeable future for level II care units. The officials of both our departments are committed to meeting immediately to try to resolve with the community exactly what their needs are, so that we can proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

About Fort Resolution, I would like to ask the Minister, while officials are consulting with the elders at the seniors' home, that I am kept informed about the status of that. I know the four residents who are there: Mr. Ted Beaulieu, Mr. Vital Brula, Mr. Harry Minoza and Mr. Nadli. They have all requested that somehow the units be individualized. It causes disruption. All of them are over 60, but they would like to live their own lives, and live them in peace.

It was as a result of their request, that I requested they consider maybe making renovations to individualize the units. I appreciate the Minister's response to that. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Total buildings and works, $3.320 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $59,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Fort Smith, total region, $21,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total equipment acquisition, $80,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Contributions, headquarters, total region, $510,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total contributions, $510,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total activity, $3.910 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The chair recognizes Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Again, before we conclude this, I know I brought this up with Mrs. Marie-Jewell when she was the Minister; Mr. Whitford when he was the Minister; and, Red Pedersen, when he was the Minister, and now I want to bring it up with you, Madam Premier.

It is regarding the furniture at the senior citizens' home in Providence; I am bringing it up time and time again. A lot of the furniture that is there has been there since the building was built.

Also, under the transfer agreement, is the federal government still going to spend money, without us putting in more money, for hospitals; or, is that a cost-sharing thing? I'm not too clear on that, but I know when Stanton Yellowknife Hospital was built, it was built with federal contributions. Is that still the arrangement?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, just the Inuvik and the Baffin Hospital.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Madam Premier. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

I know they are going to be building in Inuvik and Iqaluit. I'm asking, are the amounts our share for the facilities. Does it cost more than what is actually in the books?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Ed Norwich please answer that question?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

By all means, Mr. Norwich, please.

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Norwich

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The federal/GNWT cost-sharing arrangements for these hospitals are reflected in the recovery portion of the estimate document; the $1.556 million. Correction, it doesn't show up there. The cost-sharing arrangement with the federal government will show up in future years. The money which is in the budget is the total project cost of which we have an apportion into our cost-sharing arrangement, based on the ethnicity in the Baffin and Inuvik regions. It does show up in future years. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Norwich. Departmental summary, capital expenditure, total capital expenditure, $10.403 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

This concludes this department. I would like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the committee, to thank the Premier and her witnesses in assisting us in these matters. I think now would be an appropriate time to take a short break.

---SHORT BREAK

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The Chair John Ningark

The committee will come back to order. Before the break, the committee agreed to proceed with Bill 3. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that we continue with consideration of the budget and move on to the Department of Public Works and Services.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Dent, you're suggesting that we continue with the Department of Public Works and Services. Do we agree that we proceed with the Department of Public Works and Services?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Public Works And Services

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Is the appropriate Minister, the Honourable Don Morin, prepared to make his opening remarks?

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have given copies of the opening remarks -- 42 copies -- to the Clerk. We have done that already.

I am pleased to be here today to present the proposed 1995-96 capital budget for the Department of Public Works and Services. The capital requests total $12.685 million.

This year the Department of Public Works and Services, along with the NWT Housing Corporation and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, have implemented the building and learning strategy in 12 pilot communities; two in each region. The number of participants has increased to approximately 100 in the training programs this year.

Local people are involved in training that will advance them towards jobs as trades persons, project managers or foremen. In addition to the six community training committees established last year, committees have now been established this year in Baker Lake, Coppermine, Igloolik, Fort Providence, Lac La Martre and Snare Lake. These committees work with representatives of the three departments and identify priorities and trainees for the training opportunities associated with local construction projects.

In 1995-96, the department will manage approximately 600 capital construction projects worth $79 million. The department's objective is to maximize the northern employment and business opportunities associated with the GNWT construction program. In addition to the building and learning strategy, the department used a wide variety of delivery approaches to achieve this objective. As a result, there are increasing numbers of northern companies, based in the smaller communities, that can be counted on to carry out construction projects. Fossil Lake Enterprises Limited in Fort Good Hope is one example. This company has managed renovation and construction projects for the GNWT over the last two years, totalling more than $2.5 million.

Many other companies, such as Kawtak Construction Limited in Sanikiluaq, Qillaut Development Corporation in Pond Inlet, Qikiqtaq in Pangnirtung, Cap Mountain Ventures in Wrigley, Issatik in Whale Cove, Tetlit-zeh in Fort McPherson and Nakehk'o Koe Construction in Fort Simpson, to name only a few, have all benefitted from these approaches.

In January, I wrote to all MLAs outlining the delivery approaches for projects in their ridings. I will briefly outline some of these project delivery methods.

The many small road-site-land development projects are normally tendered by invitation to local companies only. If there is only one local company, the department will sole-source that contract. If there is no local company, the department will sole-source with the local council.

Contracted construction management services are sometimes used in communities where there is no local construction company able to manage a project. The construction manager must ensure the use of local labour, equipment and small businesses. This approach was used for projects such as the community centres in Nahanni Butte and Kakisa and the Snare Lake community office and school.

The department contracts with local development corporations and local councils to provide labour to general contractors. For example, Nakehk'o Koe Construction is providing labourers for Hovat on the Fort Simpson Bompas school project.

At my instruction, the contract for the Arviat tank farm construction was tendered by invitation only to NWT contractors. Before this project, construction contracts for tank farms and fuel storage facilities had traditionally gone to southern companies. A local firm, Eskimo Point Lumber, won the contract and is now completing its first year of work on this multi-million dollar multi-year project. The department has worked closely with the company to assist the owner to manage the largest contract this company has ever had.

In 1994-95, to date, four contracts for capital construction projects have been approved for negotiation, for a total value of approximately $1.3 million. The awards for these negotiated contracts have been within the budgeted estimates. I am confident, therefore, that the department is getting good value when these contracts are negotiated.

This year, the department contributed $1.4 million to the retrofitting of the Terry Fox ice breaker, as part of a joint initiative with the federal government. A new crane will be installed and tanks will be retrofitted. This retrofit will permit an annual sealift resupply of petroleum products and dry goods to Pelly Bay and will benefit the community significantly by reducing the costs of these goods.

For the 1995-96 capital budget, the department provides office space to government departments and is requesting $1.131 million so that space requirements can be met in eight NWT communities. I am pleased to report that one major undertaking, the Yellowknife office plan, is on target to reduce the total inventory of leased office space by 40,000 square feet in Yellowknife by the end of 1996-97 and to achieve an operations and maintenance savings of $1 million annually by 1997-98.

Under the building and works activity, the department is requesting capital funding to continue to upgrade the program for the Laing Building in Yellowknife and the Brown Building in Iqaluit. Ventilation systems in five schools will be upgraded to national building code standards as part of a multi-year project in which 20 schools will be upgraded over five years. This will provide a healthier environment for the students. The department will continue with the energy conservation capital program and proposes to commit $450,000 to those projects.

In the vehicles and equipment activity, $647,000 is required to replace 25 vehicles: 13 are for the Department of Public Works and Services, while 12 are for other departments.

Cabinet approved the transfer of the community dust control program, effective April 1, 1995 and the proposed capital main estimates for MACA and Public Works and Services have been adjusted accordingly.

The petroleum products division buys, ships and stores petroleum products for over 45 communities not served by private industry. Facilities and vehicles are required to keep pace with the growing community demand. As a result, major tank construction projects will occur in five communities. Projects in another five communities will proceed to design and warranty phases. The total capital request for the petroleum products activity is $7.83 million.

This year, under the systems and communications activity, the department is requesting $190,000 to fund the continued upgrading of mainframe hardware systems. This also includes starting a three-year project to upgrade computer room facilities in the regional centres.

Members will note that the funding requested for the delivery of the building and learning strategy has not been included in the department's 1995-96 plan. The 1994-95 program will be reviewed later in the year. Plans for 1995-96 will be developed and funding will be requested through a special warrant.

Finally, as Members know, the department will move quickly to undertake community consultation on the business incentive policy. We intend to take the revisions to the policy to Cabinet before the end of the fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes my opening remarks. I will be pleased to answer any questions from the Members. Mahsi cho.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance, Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Since this department is responsible for negotiating, tendering and implementing

many of the contracts of other departments as well as its own, a number of issues relating to contracting in general were discussed when this department appeared before the committee.

Business Incentive Policy

One concern expressed was regarding the business incentive policy (BIP). Committee Members report that many business operators in the north are increasingly frustrated with the current policy. They see it as unnecessarily complicated. They also see it as unfair at times, when southern companies start getting northern preference without, in their view, adequate justification.

The committee acknowledges that the department is re-examining the BIP in hopes of improving it. But committee Members urge the department to go back to the original objective of the policy: to ensure that as much of the government's expenditures as possible stay in the north to the benefit of northerners. Suggestions that a revamped BIP would put more emphasis on the northern labour content of contracts are worthwhile, but the department must be careful not to further complicate the program.

Recommendation 11

The Standing Committee on Finance recommends that the Department of Public Works and Services replace the current business incentive policy with a new program that is simpler, less bureaucratic, enforceable, and more effective.

At the end of this presentation, I will be making a motion on this recommendation.

Contract Estimating And Budgeting

Committee Members also noted a possible problem with the estimation of contracts, and with coordination and communication with other departments. In the past, the standing committee pointed out how many projects had gone over budget and urged the department to improve its estimating procedures. Now, many projects are over budget, but many projects come in under budget, too. While this means that overall spending estimates are more likely to be accurate, the wide variance in project estimation still concerns committee Members.

Granted, estimating projects in the north is much more difficult than elsewhere in Canada, due to the many unique factors affecting construction and planning in the north. But the committee still urges the department to improve its estimating procedures, in order to reduce the variance in project spending and to allow better and more consistent planning. The committee will expect departments to explain and justify wide variances in project estimates.

In his opening remarks, the Minister suggested that the original goal of splitting the budget into two separate bills -- allowing capital project tenders to go out earlier -- would be reached by April 1996 for 1996-97 contracts. Committee Members are concerned, however, that tenders are still often late enough that projects are delayed to future years. Committee Members noted many disadvantages to the two-budget process, and noted that if the advantage of extra lead time was not being realized, then the two-budget concept should be reviewed.

Inuvik HTHW System

Committee Members note that the department is proceeding with the phasing-out of the Inuvik high temperature hot water (HTHW) heating system. As was recommended last year, the committee continues to encourage the department to consult with other departments, as well as agencies such as the NWT Power Corporation, as they plan the dismantling of that system.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Public Works and Services replace the current business incentive policy with a new program that is simpler, less bureaucratic, enforceable, and more effective.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. But I see there is no quorum here. We will ring the bell to bring people in, one by one. Do we have a quorum now? Order, please.

Mr. Whitford, order. There is a motion on the floor and question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

That concludes the Standing Committee on Finance report, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before we get into general comments, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he would like to bring in his witnesses. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee that the honourable Minister bring in his witnesses?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses, please.

Mr. Minister, for the record, would you introduce the witnesses to the committee.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Bob Doherty, the deputy minister, and to my left is Dave Waddell, finance director.

General Comments

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are dealing with the 1995-96 capital estimates of the Department of Public Works and Services. We are now on general comments, if there are any. General comments on the budget. Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was curious about one item the Minister talked about in his opening remarks: the ice breaker, the retrofitting of the Terry Fox, for $1.4 million. I think this is a good project and it is worthy of our approval and our participation, Mr. Chairman, because some time ago there was at least one community that wasn't served by sea, even though it was on the coast. The retrofitting of the ship will give an opportunity for more resupply by sea. There are no longer any communities that are not accessible.

It is a good thing it is an ice breaker because not too long ago, our honourable colleague for the High Arctic mentioned that there was almost no resupply in one of the communities because the ice was causing problems for the ships to get in there. I wonder if the Minister would know whether or not the ice breaker, the Terry Fox, and the retrofit that we've spent so much money on, will be used for other communities other than the ones in the Pelly Bay area.

I recognize the fact that some are easy to get into; Iqaluit, for example. But, with some of the smaller communities, there is a lot of ice in those areas. Will it be used in other areas besides Pelly Bay, to alleviate any future problems they might have with ice?

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The Chair John Ningark

I thank you kindly, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we have been putting money into retrofitting, so there will be a crane on the ship and it will be used for places other than Pelly Bay.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments from the floor. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the community training committees. There is one in Providence. I support whatever the community does in the area of training, but the selection is perceived to be blatant patronage of family members. I see that happening in Providence and, of course, other families don't approve of it. When it is so obvious that communities bring it up, I think there is something wrong.

I hope when you create these committees, you take every possible measure so that when selection is made for training programs, you don't have fathers selecting sons for trainees and ignoring the rest of the community.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Department of Public Works and Services.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the communities what we try to do is get a broad base of representation on the committee. I will assure the Member that we do get a broad base and draw from, for example, the band council, the hamlet council, the Metis association, the community education society and the local employment officer. All of these people should be involved actively in this committee so we can receive proper recommendations on who to train in the community and what projects to work on. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Deh Cho.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

(Microphone turned off)...of the community. I guess I would also ask how they determined the final outcome of the selection. Was it advertised? Was it on a time frame? Were there deadlines to meet, then interviews were done, and then selections were made on the merit of the interviews? Or, did they just say these people are interested in these areas, and these are the ones who are going to be trained?

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm not exactly sure how they choose the trainees. What I do know is that the Department of Education is involved with that as well as ourselves. They must be going to a broad base; putting signs up in the community to get as many people interested as possible. I would hope that is how it is being done.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Ng.

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An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)...Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to assure the Member that I will look into his issue and his concern. We will ensure that every person who wants to be trained in Fort Providence will have the opportunity to apply for that training.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister, I think we missed the last part because your microphone was turned off.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

I will work with the Minister of Education to ensure those people who want to be trained in Providence have the opportunity to apply.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Okay. I'm interested in finding out exactly how the selection was made, too. My final concern, Mr. Chairman, is regarding projects that are implemented in some communities. I think I brought the situation in Kakisa up with the Minister already. This morning I received a phone call from Kakisa; last weekend, I talked with some of the members from Kakisa; and, about a week ago, I did the same thing. The community is involved with the project that is occurring in

Kakisa, and I appreciate that. But, they don't seem to be consulted about what is happening.

I think they are told to do something and that is it. The community is not aware of the timetable, what the schedule is, or even who is going to be doing the work. It is sort of a day-to-day thing, where one day the project supervisor says they are going to be hiring people from Yellowknife to work on gyprock and the next day they change their story. Community consultation is important in these projects and I hope the people in Kakisa are informed about that project. Of course, the appropriate body would be the band council. I hope they learn what is happening, what the schedules are, what the timetable is and whether there are any changes.

We don't have telephones, but we asked the supervisor to put in telephone outlets so that, in a couple of years, we don't cover the walls with wires because they couldn't be buried. That is the kind of consultation I am referring to. It seems to me, in the last three weeks, the information I've been getting is construction is continuing, but there is hardly any consultation.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you. There are four to six local workers currently on site with this construction management contract that is going on in Kakisa now, with a superintendent. If the superintendent, Maddigan Consulting Ltd, is supplying the construction management, Mr. Gargan, I will make a commitment to you now that my deputy minister will be on the phone tomorrow to tell him to meet with the community and do so weekly from now on.

Also, if he does have people coming in from Yellowknife, he will instruct them to turn around and go back to Yellowknife, because there are adequate people in the community to do this labour. We will do it with local people.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Pudluk.

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask a very quick question of the Minister. Mr. Whitford mentioned my concern. Like I was saying, Grise Fiord almost didn't get their supplies this summer because of the ice. I know there will be some construction of fuel storage facilities in some communities. I want to ask the Minister, does Grise Fiord have a one-year supply of fuel or a two-year supply of fuel since you guys have said it will be slated for a tankard, if they could make it to Grise Fiord. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In all communities it's a one-year supply, Mr. Pudluk. I was listening to your Member's statement the other day in the House and it did raise a concern with me as well: if we're having difficulties getting in, especially to a community like Grise Fiord where that airport is so small -- I've been there -- there would be no way of resupplying fuel if we ran out of fuel. So it is something that should be addressed. Let me assure you that my deputy minister will look into it to come up with a contingency plan, because we cannot have that cost to this government of flying

in fuel or evacuating a community if it runs out of fuel. We should be planning better than that.

I don't know what the problem is with this ice breaker getting in there; maybe the ice is thicker now or something, but it's something that has to be addressed. I thank you for bringing that concern to our attention.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Pudluk.

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the Minister for sharing my concern. There will be another problem next year or the year after because some of the old ice is starting to move south from north of Resolute Bay. They call it Ice Island. It's been there for a long time. ...(inaudible)...occupied Ice Island. Last year it was starting to move around and starting to break. Some of it has gone through Resolute Bay. This old ice is starting to pass by those communities.

Resolute Bay always has a two-year supply of fuel from Esso, not this government. For sure, if they run out of fuel, there is no way. Only twin otters fly in there and they can't carry very much fuel. If the Minister would look into my concern, I would appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With the new condition arising up there, I guess old ice means tough ice, which is hard to break. With that coming further south, we have to address that problem. We should plan properly and ensure that we have fuel in our communities and they don't run out. As soon as the department gets back to me on it, I will get in touch with you. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to apologize to Mr. Ng; I should have recognized you. From here you and Ludy look alike and about the same height. So I should have recognized you, I got confused here. Mr. Ng.

---Laughter

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, with respect to his opening comments regarding the consultation on the business incentive policy and what type of timetable the department is trying to undertake this consultation in. What type of groups and organizations are they planning to consult with in order to meet the time frame of intending to take the revisions of the policy to Cabinet before the end of the fiscal year? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Consultation will take place from mid-November to mid-January. We should have this thing wrapped up by March, reporting to Cabinet. Also, through this consultation process, we are hiring regional facilitators similar to how we consulted on the NWT Housing Corporation rent scale, but not on such a grand scale. We'll be using facilitators from the regions who are not DPW employees. Our staff will back up those facilitators with technical information. Also, we'll meet as many business

people as possible, as well as having direct meetings with aboriginal land claims groups such as the Sahtu, the Gwich'in, Inuvialuit and Inuit. That's part of their claim; that we meet with them when we have a major change in policy. So it will be done by March, hopefully, if not sooner.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister, is it the intent of the government after these revisions have taken place, if they're approved by Cabinet, to have them in place for the new fiscal year for tendering.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Minister Morin, would you address the chair please.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't paying full attention to the Member when he was speaking, so if he can repeat the question a little louder then I'll hear it. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ng, for the benefit of the Minister, would you be so kind as to repeat your question.

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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Maybe the Minister should use his ear phone. His attention span might be a bit longer.

My question to the Minister was, is it the intention of his department, after Cabinet approves the revisions to the business incentive policy, to have it in place for the next tendering year. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Maybe I should get Mr. Ningark back here. The House seems to be deteriorating again. Mr. Minister.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My attention span does quite well, thank you, Mr. Ng. We will be able to amend tenders, as well as we have, through the senior management committee, which he's made amendments to our tenders already. Hopefully, that will close some of the loopholes. But it's going to take some time and the whole new direction probably won't be cleared up until the following tender year.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Morin. The chair will now recognize Mr. Arvaluk.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Coral Harbour community has objected numerous times, after a bad experience with the Foxe Basin contracting company. When the Foxe Basin contracts were awarded again this year for next spring, Coral Harbour really objected to it. But the Minister said, after the awarding, that there's nothing they really can do because Foxe Basin has rectified their defaults, or corrected the mistake they made with respect to the contract work they did in Coral Harbour. Now we heard about one month ago that the Foxe Basin contract in Iqaluit has been terminated. It's the same contractor. I guess my question is, is the Minister still planning to honour that contract they have already awarded for Coral Harbour after they have defaulted that contract work in Iqaluit.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Minister Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Member could be more specific then I might have an idea of what he's talking about. He's saying contracts in Coral Harbour and Iqaluit; are they with the Department of Public Works or with the Housing Corporation? What contracts is he speaking about? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 537

James Arvaluk Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, I think it was the Housing Corporation in Coral Harbour. I'm not sure what it was in Iqaluit. I'm not sure. It's the same guy, Mr. Jim Little, Foxe Basin, that Coral Harbour was up in arms about. They communicated that to your department. They're not satisfied with the answers yet but the only thing they could be satisfied with was the contractor has corrected the situation. Now it's been defaulted. Maybe it's the Housing Corporation. If so, then I will wait, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 537

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. General comments. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 537

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's not within my knowledge or my deputy minister's knowledge that Foxe Basin has any contracts with DPW. If the Member could wait until the NWT Housing Corporation's budget comes up, maybe then I could respond because that's a different briefing book. Thanks.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 537

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

General comments, details of capital. The chair recognizes the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 537

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I have to commend the Department of Public Works and Services and the Minister on their building and learning strategy, which I think is a very good way to help the communities and develop the human resources in a community. That is in conjunction with the NWT Housing Corporation and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment; they are due some credit as well. I think it was a joint venture between these departments to help the communities build their infrastructure as well as train the people there. It's a very good way to do it and I would like to encourage them to continue in that way. We've done that in some of the communities I represent.

It went very well last year in Trout Lake and was successful this year. We're doing a project similar to that in Nahanni Butte as well. As far as I'm aware, they're building a community centre there with an outside contractor hiring local people and training them. When I was there this summer when they started the construction a lot of local people were employed and had been trained on the job. It was a very good project. I would like to commend the department again on it.

There again, we don't have telephones available in those communities but in case they have telephones in the future, that should be looked at as well to have that in the building while they're constructing it. Perhaps if the Minister could check it out and see if that's possible.

In my constituency there are a lot of trees; and the communities are beginning to, through their resource management committees, identify the forest as their very sustainable economy for the future, if it's developed right, if it's logged right, if it's not clear cut and selective logging is used. That is the direction that some of the communities want to go now. With the trees, if we're able to get some sawmills into our area then we could make the boards and with the boards we will be able to build furniture, doors, windows, maybe roof trusses and so forth. That is the direction that a lot of people in my area are going. It's good that this government is buying manufactured goods from the north.

I know that the group in Fort Simpson have approached the department here to see if they could start a roof truss manufacturing centre in Simpson. To date, nothing has happened with it. I would like to ask the Minister if the Fort Simpson band company, the Liidti Koe Construction and Nikukoe Construction Group have approached this department with regard to manufacturing roof trusses for the government. Have they approached the government on this matter? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. About a little over a year ago now, I guess it was, we had tendered in the newspapers for proposal calls, expression of interest, for northern manufactured products. We got a lot of those expressions of interest. In some cases there was a great deal of expression of interest. An example would be these roof trusses. There were about seven or eight organizations or individuals that expressed interest in manufacturing roof trusses. That was for the Housing Corporation. We went to tender and the tender was won by a Yellowknife firm, Call 3000, or something. They had a one-year contract. We will be going to tender again because there's a great interest out there. The development corporation in Fort Simpson will have the opportunity to tender on those trusses.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. The chairman continues to recognize Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

According to the departmental overview of Public Works and Services, there are a number of items besides the roof trusses that are being manufactured and being purchased by the GNWT; products made in the north. Are any of these products manufactured in the north coming from the smaller communities like Fort Simpson, Fort Providence, Fort Liard, or any of these small communities? Are these manufactured goods all coming from the larger centres? Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The windows come from Hay River; furniture from two places in Hay River; doors in Hay River; office furniture, Hay River; fuel tank stands, a small portion of them, Bearard Welding in Fort Resolution and the other portion has gone to Paul Brothers, I believe, or Back Bay Welding. Fuel tanks themselves, the small ones for houses, 200 and some gallons, is Back Bay again, I believe, or Paul Brothers, one of them, a Yellowknife firm. The big fuel tanks, five or six of them went into Hay River, Kingland. All fibreglass water tanks, sewer tanks, is Fibreglass North in Yellowknife. Fibreglass bathtubs and the tub-surrounds are the Fort Resolution Dene Band. That would be the only small place, Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Morin. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Nahendeh.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Like all other Members here, we want manufacturing and employment opportunities in our constituencies. I would like to know how does a small community get an opportunity to get into the manufacturing business, to provide products made in the Northwest Territories to the GNWT. What does a community have to do, besides bidding against companies from bigger centres? Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess they would have to work with Economic Development, as well as the Housing Corporation and the Department of Public Works and Services to see how we can maximize the benefits to that community for contracts and capital that is going in there. That is our job, that's what we should be doing.

But, in some cases, for some things that have to manufactured, you have to have so many of them to make economic sense to begin with. I'm willing to explore that with the Member in his riding and with the departments I am in charge of, and request that the Department of Economic Development work with us to explore how Fort Simpson, Jim's area, for example, could benefit more from the capital projects that are going in there, through manufacturing.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 538

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is good that manufacturing is finally beginning to happen in the north. It is long overdue. There are going to be more and more opportunities. I think there are a lot of opportunities and areas where products could be made in the north and sold, not only to the Government of the Northwest Territories, but to other groups. There have been proposals and requests.

I'm sure there are a lot of ideas out there from different business people in the smaller communities who want to have an opportunity to expand in other areas. I think if the department is willing to look into these areas and work with communities to expand the manufacturing industry, that would be good. It is always good to have competition out there, not only to favour one community or one group, but to have the opportunity of having different products out there. This will certainly provide employment in the communities. This will generate income in the communities and the economy could grow.

This is the direction we are slowly going towards, and the government is definitely going in the right direction. But, on the other hand, the opportunity has to be there for other groups and communities to participate in manufacturing. That's all I have to say, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I agree with the Member that we should explore all opportunities for manufacturing in the north. One person even suggested that we manufacture the light switches that are now being manufactured in Korea. The population that is manufacturing them do not have a very high education, similar to ours. You can specifically train people to put these switches together; they are very cheap to ship around because they are small, and we could look at things like that.

We could look at anything and see what makes sense. But, Members must realize that some of the manufacturing agreements we have now are multi-year agreements that we would have to honour. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. General comments. The chair recognizes the Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. In the standing committee's opening remarks, they alluded to the issue that this department does a lot of the design and project management work on major projects. One of the issues in doing this type of work, especially with negotiated contracts, is the coordination between the sponsoring department or agent, your department and the people who are doing the work.

Most times, things go okay, but once in a while, things don't go okay and we end up with delays. Members in this House from the various regions have expressed their opinions on projects that don't go according to plan. One of the things I feel isn't going forward -- and I know that the department and the government are trying, but they don't seem to be making headway -- is when we try to do innovative things. For example, have a contractor do a design-build and let them manage a project. I'm just wondering where the department is in doing some of these design-build projects by a contractor or a sponsoring agency.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In every given year, we have design-build contracts. We minimize the design-builds. There were only five in the previous year's budget, I believe. Before, maybe about 10 years ago or so, there was a lot of design-build work. What we heard from a lot of the communities is, when you tender design-build contracts, you are basically favouring major companies or people with a lot of money to do them and it freezes out small companies and community involvement. This is what occurred in the past.

So, what we've done is we design separately, build separately, ship materials in separately and do all kinds of things to break the contracts down. Now what we're hearing from some people is that they want to go back to design-build. We, as a department, are open to that. If that's what they want to do, that's fine, as long as there are cost controls and standards are met. As far as timing of projects, Members are well aware that we have changed our capital cycle to the fall, which was a good idea.

But, only doing the one thing and the one thing, alone, doesn't mean you are going to get out to tender early or get your project started up on time. There is a whole process of involvement, with many different parties, that has to be followed to get the tenders out on time. One thing has come to light, and it is very clear: until we develop clear guidelines of capital standards and criteria, along with the client departments, it doesn't make a difference when you pass this capital budget, because you'll always have that problem.

We have to have a proper process and planning so when there is a project coming, the planning is done. There is a lack of funding in some departments to properly plan for capital projects, so that has to be addressed as well. Up-to-date versions capital standards and criteria, have to be developed as soon as possible with the departments so, instead of asking for palaces, we'll build houses and it should work better.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. The chair recognizes Mr. Gargan. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were finished. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good, and I hope in setting your policies and criteria that it's flexible because, as we're all aware, not every region and not every community has the same capability. If we try something and it doesn't work, let's do something else that works. I guess all I'm saying is that we have to be flexible in how these projects are set up. And what works in one community may not necessarily work in a neighbouring community. I think there has to be flexibility in the process to make it work. That's all I want to say there.

In terms of another idea of doing capital work, we all know that this government is short of money. And something that several Members have been saying for years is that where there are businesses or organizations that do have money, they may be able to build a project, a school, for instance, or a home or whatever, with their money; design, construct and then lease it back. That, in turn, saves the government capital money. I know it costs O and M in the long term, but there have been several proposals made to this government and each time, it seems to hit a stone wall. I'm just wondering what's being done to try and change the policy in terms of having an organization do the construction and lease back.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 539

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, on the flexibility at the community consultation, I agree with the Member that we should have flexibility there.

When I'm talking about capital standards and criteria, I think it has to be laid out and it has to be made very clear to all parties involved that these are the 1994 standards of government for offices or whatever it may be: schools, renewable resource buildings. This is what is acceptable, this is what will be rejected. And if we have those standards and criteria and the proper planning, then you will not have conflicts between departments and DPW, and everything will be very clear and it would speed up the process. That's what I'm talking about when I say standards and criteria.

When you work with the community...I know that it's different in Grise Fiord than it is in Fort Resolution. So you have to adapt to that, and you should be able to do that.

The standards, for example, in a building that I know of is that they may want their own garage when they don't really need it because DPW does service vehicles, but that drives the cost of the building up. So we have to get those types of things in order.

As far as individuals leasing back to the Government of the Northwest Territories, it's been the direction of this government that we do go to lease back as much as possible. It's a more costly way to do business. Everybody realizes all we're doing is offsetting the hit. But we do lease all our offices and that's the way we do business: through lease.

As far as any other major leases that you may be referring to, I think it's something that has to be found by the FMB, not me.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. The chair continues to recognize the Member for Inuvik.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Fred Koe Inuvik

That's fine and fair, but the front-line person, the person who is doing the initial project, feasibility or investigation of the project, is usually a public works officer. They, in turn, have to come back to someone. Once they get back to headquarters things seem to not get anywhere. I'm just wondering, have you, as Minister, made any overtures to FMB or the Minister of Finance or other people in terms of trying to change a policy in doing those types of projects.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't think I can speak for the chairman of the FMB, but I know anything that makes common sense would be received positively. If we have money in the budget and the money is clearly there, then I don't see any problem with us leasing rather than building the capital. But I want to see those dollar figures in the public part before agreeing to anything. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Morin. Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Fred Koe Inuvik

I know of several projects over the past several years that made common sense. The financial backing was there for the project for the sponsoring group. There was a need and due to various reasons, safety being one, the condition of the buildings, a lot of work was done. I may as well get specific, it's the school projects and an office project. Once it came back to headquarters, they were told the policy doesn't allow for this to happen. That's why I raise it. Why can't we change the policy or change the system to allow for this to happen? It's a good idea, it makes sense, financial backing is there, the projects and the plans are in the capital plans, and to me we should just do it, of course with all the other proper conditions. But in this particular case, it didn't get anywhere, even with the engineers involved.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Minister Morin.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You're talking about the Fort McPherson high school project. That does make common sense to do that, but, ultimately, there was no money in the budget to do that. Even though the Gwich'in had proposed, with the help of my department and Education, financing that project, it was made very clear that that project would have to be jumped up a few years and it did not have the support to do that because there is a great need for high schools or schools in all communities. So that was the reason. That was the political decision. But it did make common sense to do it.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. I know it made common sense, because as you mentioned the engineers, both the capital planners from Education, and the project officer from Public Works said it made sense.

Another area where sometimes there seems to be lack of coordination between departments is for most public buildings that are owned by this government, the O and M is managed or looked after by Public Works. Sometimes there are problems with the condition of buildings and the safety aspects, then other departments get involved. But there just seems to be a problem sometimes with the coordination between the sponsoring department and Public Works who is normally responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the building. I would assume that in doing maintenance and upkeep of a building, if there is anything seriously flawed with a building, it would be brought to the attention of somebody through your maintenance people. So, I'm just raising a point.

Again, there is a lot of coordination and things seem to fall between the cracks sometimes. I'm wondering what is the department doing to try to address it, interdepartmentally.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. That was more or less a point with implication for a response from the Minister. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 540

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have regular scheduled maintenance for all buildings and we try to keep on top of it. Some things do fall through the cracks, like the Member has said.

Just to comment some more on the previous comment the Member made on the capital projects to get finances, I just checked with the Minister of Finance and the main reason for us not being able to agree to that was commitment of funding for the future government. Also, it was seen as we would have to fast-track one school when there were lots of schools needed in the Northwest Territories. It was just one school and it would not be politically viable or saleable. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Inuvik.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. I don't want to get into debate. It's questionable; you're right, we're right and people in the community are right. It's something that has to be coordinated, and this government has, over the years, signed contracts -- three, four or five-year contracts -- especially municipal contracts. So that argument of committing future funds doesn't hold a lot of strength with me because it's been done before. I just hope that my original comment of being innovative and using the resources that are available within different communities or different areas, and the ideas put forward by different groups should be, at least, not so much acted on, but looked at. There are a lot of good ideas out there and there are a lot of new companies coming on the scene that have good capabilities, and I think we have to consider what they're proposing and, again, look at different ways of accommodating the needs. Again, these are needs of communities.

Some of the statements were that needs vary from one area to another. Again, every time, on every page, we see where projects are allocated. It's not necessarily based on need. There are all kinds of reasons why projects are put in certain places. But I won't get into that because I might get my ears slapped.

I just want to make the point that if there are capabilities, with proper financing and proper management, we should be looking very hard at the abilities of a community to do a certain project. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. I have Mr. Gargan but he's not in the House. Are we ready for line by line?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are on page 8. Section 9, Public Works and Services 1995-96 capital estimates, directorate, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $65,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $65,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity for this page is $65,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Accommodation Services

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 08-11, accommodation services, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $300,000. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Fred Koe Inuvik

Just a question. I know last year there was a motion passed that the department was to do a feasibility analysis and an accommodation analysis at headquarters. Was that done?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, it was done, and SCOF was briefed on it and accepted it.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Fred Koe Inuvik

I'm not on SCOF. Okay.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total region, $300,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, total region, $330,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $113,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Baffin, total region, $250,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin, total region, $80,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 541

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Kitikmeot, total region, $58,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree? Mr. Kelvin Ng? Thank you.

---Laughter

Total buildings and works, $1.131 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity for this area is $1.131 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Buildings And Works

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On page 08-14, buildings and works, headquarters, total region, $1.972 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $10,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Baffin, total region, $840,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $2.822 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Total activity, $2.822 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Vehicles And Equipment

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Page 08-16, vehicles and equipment, equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $75,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Fort Smith, total region, $126,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $99,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Baffin, total region, $135,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin, total region, $89,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Next page, Kitikmeot, total region, $123,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $647,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Total activity, $647,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Systems And Communications

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 542

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. On page 08-19, systems and communications, equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $190,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

Why isn't there any money for upgrades in the regions? All these upgrades seem to happen in Yellowknife.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is coordinated out of Yellowknife, but they could apply to any region. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

There is $190,000 here. Can the Minister give me a breakdown, estimated, among regions?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister, estimated breakdown.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The first $50,000 goes to Hay River, Fort Smith and Cambridge Bay. The next $40,000 is given out according to need determined throughout the year, it can go to any region, and any community. The last $100,000 is for the department's high speed computer equipment in their Yellowknife and regional computer centres processing client systems such as health, social assistance payroll and human resources. Client departments are continuously refining and upgrading the system, which requires our department to continue to upgrade our electronic data processing equipment to provide a level of service to handle the processing requirements of our clients.

This money is for purchasing disk drives to increase capacity, replacing tape drives and increasing computer memory to enhance processing capabilities to meet client demands and all the data sent to us. On the previous item, the $40,000, Arviat received $11,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

Last year in doing budget reviews, there was a new buzzword called the informatics strategy. Is this money part of upgrading for the informatics strategy.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. No.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, headquarters, total region, $190,000. The honourable Member for Inuvik.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

That begs the question then, where is the money to develop the strategy and what is the status of the strategy?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Minister of Public Works and Services.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The strategy has been approved, but there is no funding in place. It hasn't been addressed yet. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Member for Inuvik.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

The strategy was to consolidate and assess records management, procuring publications, production, voice data, and office automation. All this was tied into this strategy. I'm surprised that, a year later, we're no further ahead. That's what I read from your statement.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. For clarification, Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll let my deputy answer that.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Doherty.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Doherty

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that the informatics strategy that was put together by the various departments under the Financial Management Board Secretariat was approved by the board. There were some proposals for funding in the submission, but the board had some concerns about the costs, so the informatics committee is to go back, address potential projects and come back with a framework for the board to consider for funding.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. I will just give notice to Cabinet that I will be following up on this issue tomorrow during question period.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm not sure about the answer, so I will take it as notice.

---Laughter

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Tomorrow is another day, right? Total region, $190,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Total equipment acquisition, $190,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity, $190,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 543

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed Petroleum Products

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. On page 08-21, petroleum products. Buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $175,000. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In this category there are a few items for relocation. I understand it probably has to do with the fact that initial fuel tanks were probably on the outskirts of communities and they've grown around them. I would like to ask whether you can confirm if this is the situation for the ones in the budget now. And, if that's the case, are there any future perceived problems and relocations in our communities of fuel tank farms? Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under item fuel tank construction/relocation, Lutsel K'e, is that the one?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

All of them.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

There are different reasons for all of them. For Lutsel K'e, they will be facing a shortfall of P50 heating fuel and the existing facility will be relocated from in town to a new community-planned industrial area. The new location will be more than a mile from the centre of the community and therefore qualifies under the standards and criteria for an in-town gas station as well. This station will be located in the community. There is a requirement for more P50 heating fuel, as well.

Which other ones are relocated? In Pelly Bay, the scope of work will include relocating the existing P50 heating and fuel storage facility, a site that will accommodate both air and marine resupply and provide increased storage capacity for this product. The existing storage tanks for automotive gasoline will be relocated near the apron of the new airstrip, which will allow this product to be continually resupplied, even by air.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

An Hon. Member

Colville Lake.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Colville Lake used 40,000 litres of P50 heating fuel and 70,000 litres of automotive gasoline; the annual resupply quantity increased to a point where a bulk storage facility is required. The bulk storage facility will be added within the following capacities existing: proposed capacity for P50 heating fuel, 120,000; and, automotive gasoline, 120,000. It is to do site investigation and design and earth works mobilization construction. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are in the Fort Smith region, however, I will recognize the honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

In the Fort Smith region, with respect to Lutsel K'e fuel tank construction, which involves expansion and relocation, how much of the projected future money is for relocation? Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know how much is exactly for complete new tanks and how much is for the moving of the old tanks. I will get back to the Members on that.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Petroleum products. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Are there any future projected relocations of tank farms in the communities that the department has identified for future needs?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will make that information available to the Member at the same time.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Petroleum products, buildings and works, Fort Smith, total region, $175,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $120,000. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Fred Koe Inuvik

How will these new tanks be resupplied?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. They will be resupplied by Sahtu Contractors.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Inuvik, total region, $120,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Baffin, total region, $5.115 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Keewatin, total region, $1.8 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Kitikmeot, total region, $250,000. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 544

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since this relocation of the Gjoa Haven tank farm is complete now -- it looks like there is just warranty left for this year -- what was the cost of the relocation factor of that capital project?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will get that information back to the Member at the same time. We don't have that type of breakdown with us. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Kitikmeot, total region, $250,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total buildings and works, $7.46 million. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Equipment acquisition, Fort Smith, total region, $40,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Baffin, total region, $110,000. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Kitikmeot, total region, $220,000. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Fred Koe Inuvik

What is the breakdown? Where is this equipment going?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Fuel truck, Holman; and, fuel truck, Taloyoak.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is nothing going to Inuvik from here, right? Kitikmeot, total region, $220,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total equipment acquisition, $370,000.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total activity, $7.83 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Shall we go back to the summary? Departmental summary, capital expenditures, total capital expenditures is $12.685 million.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree that the Department of Public Works and Services 1995-96 capital estimates is concluded?

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to thank the Minister and the witnesses for appearing before the committee of the whole. Thank you very much. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to take this opportunity to thank Members for passing this budget and the staff who prepared this budget. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you very much. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

Fred Koe Inuvik

I move we report progress.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will patiently wait until the witnesses leave the chamber. There is a motion on the floor to report progress and any motion to report progress is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I will report progress on your behalf. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 11, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 545

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I will call the House back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 545

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you kindly, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1 and Committee Report 10-12(6) and would like to report progress with one motion being adopted. Madam Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 545

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The motion is in order. Is there a seconder for the motion? The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 545

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 545

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried Item 21, third reading of bills. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 546

Fred Koe Inuvik

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 546

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Koe.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I wish to table Tabled Document 44-12(6), a verbatim from the CBC Inuvik news titled "Inuvik Too Small for Arctic Winter Games."

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Inuvik, Mr. Koe.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have another document. I wish to table Tabled Document 45-12(6), the newspaper of the Metis Nation of the Northwest Territories called, "The Metis Voice." It has all kinds of articles of activities and events sponsored by the Metis Nation. Of particular interest is an article on page five, a report card. It is my pleasure to table this document.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Madam Cournoyea.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I was going to table the Globe and Mail, but I won't.

---Laughter

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta.

Point Of Order

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Point of order, Madam Speaker. Is the tabled document, "The Metis Voice" also available in Inuktitut or the aboriginal languages?

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 546

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

If I recall correctly, it is the privilege of a Member in this House to table any document. However, it is the requirement of the government, when they table documents, to produce them in Inuktitut and English. Therefore, you don't have a point of order, Mr. Nerysoo. Thank you.

Item 13, tabling of documents. Order. Item 21, third reading of bills. Item 22, orders of the day, Mr. Clerk.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 546

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 10:30 tomorrow morning.

Orders of the day for Thursday, October 27th.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 18, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 1993-94

- Bill 20, Student Financial Assistance Act

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power

Corporation

- Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94

Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest

Territories

- Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"

- Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session

- Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the

1995-96 Capital Estimates

- Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual

Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of

the NWT

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

- Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act

- Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act

- Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act

- Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and

Executive Council Act 20.Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 547

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 27th at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT