This is page numbers 549 - 580 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While the Minister was talking, a couple of other concerns were raised as a result of what we've been talking about here. One of the concerns I've raised earlier in this session is with regard to insurance for homes that are being built in the communities. Especially in the communities where it is difficult to get fire insurance for the individuals because of lack of or very limited fire protection; mainly in the smaller communities where all they have, basically, is a large fire extinguisher on the back of the trucks. It's a chemical extinguisher; once you use it, it's gone. If the fire is big enough, such as was the case this past June in Jean Marie River, where a house that was being renovated caught on fire in the middle of the day...Everybody knew it was

burning but after the fire retardant ran out, everybody more or less just stood around and watched it burn to the ground because there is no other type of equipment there to put the fire out.

I think the department, if it hasn't done this yet, should look at how they can assist the communities and perhaps work with an insurance company to see if they could help some of the communities acquire fire insurance for their houses because you're looking at a big investment. This government is investing over $100,000 a unit now with the access program. Especially now that there's an access program where individuals in these small communities have to buy the unit after it is built by the housing corporation. It's maybe a 20-year mortgage that they have on these houses. If the Minister could respond to that.

Perhaps the Housing Corporation already has fire insurance on these houses because once you mortgage a unit, it belongs to the Housing Corporation until it is purchased; 20 years or 15 years or whatever time it takes it purchase these units. A lot of people in the small communities acquire furniture and appliances, and so forth. All these things cost a great deal of money. The families invest a large amount of money into having a good home just like everybody else. If there is no fire protection, once a fire starts and everything goes, then you have to start all over again with no help from insurance coverage. If the Minister could respond to this problem that we are having in the smaller communities with regard to fire insurance, I would appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A letter is waiting for my signature in my office to you on this issue, since you raised it. We worked with Mr. Pollard and Jim Nelson, our vice-president of construction. Mr. Nelson had to go to Calgary to find the right brokers for insurance. It's not only a problem to find somebody but the way the brokers are writing, they weren't covering off the cost of a unit. It was lower. Let's say if a unit was worth $100,000 or $150,000, they would only write the insurance policy for about $100,000 if it was worth $150,000. We had a problem with that. I believe they did find some people that would write insurance up in the communities. I just have to sign the letter off. I haven't even seen it yet. The corporation tells me that.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. I would appreciate it if you responded to the statements through the chair. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the Minister on behalf of everybody that has no fire insurance, for the work that they're doing. It will certainly help them out in the long run if this gets into place. It raises a number of questions and perhaps I could pursue whatever information the Minister has. It would be good if we could acquire it here in the House so that individual Members would know what is going on. There are concerns out there of people who are very aware of this situation and would like to get more information. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister, do you have a response to that last statement made by Mr. Antoine? No? Does any other Member have any other general comments, statements, or questions that they want to raise at this stage? Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I still can't figure out how the allocations are done. I've been trying to mix some numbers up here just to determine whether or not the allocation is actually based on need. You've also got a situation, Mr. Chairman, where they do have what they call market communities. Those are larger communities that have housing markets that are available. Mr. Chairman, this year's allocation... the Minister refers to the core need. Look at Fort Liard and Lutsel K'e. Their core needs are both 33 but Fort Liard gets three and Lutsel K'e gets one. I don't know how they base that core need.

The other thing is that last year the Baffin region got 53 and the South Slave got 61. Baffin region has 937 in core need. In the South Slave, there's 559, for just about the same amount of people surveyed: between 2,600 and 2,700. It's pretty close in numbers but for some reason, last year, based on that need, the South Slave still got more, even though the need was more in the Baffin. At least this year, it has changed around a bit. I just can't figure out how you come up with these needs. The same year the survey was done in 1992, Fort Wrigley got 26 units, Hay River got 20 and Providence was next with 15. But, those were all mixed at that time.

I'm saying, Mr. Chairman, that now that we're really in a time where money is scarce, we should try to find the best possible way to address the needs of people, and I don't see that. I can't figure out how they came up with the numbers they did. I find it quite disturbing that Lutsel K'e and Fort Liard, for example, have the same needs but one community gets more than the other.

If you look at the territorial-wide survey between the Baffin and the South Slave, which have the same number of communities, the Baffin requires more than the South Slave, but for some reason, last year after the survey was done, their allocation went down, which meant that the South Slave went up. I appreciate that the South Slave got more, but that still doesn't answer the whole question of need. The Minister keeps referring to basing it on need, but I don't see how the numbers match. It doesn't jibe for some reason.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 577

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, Mr. Gargan, there is lots of detail in that comment. Maybe you could try, once again, to explain needs assessment, Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The allocation is done according to need. In 1995-96, Fort Liard is going to get two units and Lutsel K'e is going to get two units. It is the same, so the need must be the same. The needs survey says Lutsel K'e needs 33 and Fort Liard is the same. They are the same, that is why they are getting the same amount of units.

What I would like to offer to the Member is a complete briefing on the needs survey and the allocation broken down by percentages, the Housing Corporation has all of that documentation. We can make arrangements with Mr. Gargan to go over all of that with him.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also asked a written question regarding the allocations for the last five years. I haven't received anything up to now and I would still like to play around with these numbers before we continue with Housing. I don't know how it is done, but I feel something is not right. I can't put my finger on it.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will send a letter around to all Members who are interested in knowing about this. We have done this previously, where we have briefed all Members of the Legislative Assembly on the needs survey and the allocation. I would be pleased to do it again.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks for the offer, Mr. Morin. Any further general comments, statements or questions? Are you ready to go into detail? I note that your question, Mr. Gargan, was Written Question 11-12(6). Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

How do you determine the survey in market communities? I just received a fax from Hay River and Mackenzie Place has some vacancies. Cedar Residence apartments also has a 20 to 30 per cent vacancy rate. The only one that has 100 per cent occupancy rate is the housing authority. There are units available. How do you determine how many Hay River is going to be getting? If you look at your allocations for this year, Hay River is getting the most.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Hay River's need in the 1992 needs survey was 169. Their allocation this year is 13 units. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

He still didn't answer my question. How do you allocate in communities that have housing markets?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I would like to ask you to make all your statements through the chair. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Exactly the same way as every other community except for Yellowknife. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Gargan.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Then, are you suggesting that every community in the Northwest Territories has a housing market? Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 578

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

No, I would never say that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.