This is page numbers 549 - 580 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That can be addressed either way, Mr. Ng. It all depends on how much money we have available in that region; what program clients fit into. If they are high-income, then it may be direct lending. If they are low income, it could be the HIP program, emergency repair or seniors' repair. There are many different programs. It would depend on each individual client. We would also counsel them. For example, we would sit down with client A and counsel them on how they could purchase the unit and what programs could be made available to them to upgrade the unit. That would be done on one-to-one client counselling.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard, again, to the northern rental sales, will individuals be required to come up with their own downpayments or financing? Or, would that be financed internally with the Housing Corporation? Would they be eligible for some of your proposed programs, such as the downpayment assistance program? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is what I just finished saying. They are available for all those things. For high-income people, if they need to repair the unit, we can help them go to the bank for that or direct lend. The actual sale could be done through payments. We are very flexible. Any way that we can make it work with the client, we will do it. It is driven by what the client is capable of paying. That is how we approach it. Let me say that this program of selling the northern rentals has been in place for years. People have not taken advantage of it. It is just because it wasn't widely known. We are going to make sure people know that program exists and understand it, so we can help them get into it.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I concur with the Minister that it isn't a widely-known program. If you do advertise it properly and explain the benefits to people, they would consider it.

The Minister replied about the Weber retrofit program that is funded by CMHC and I also noticed that there is the modernization and improvement program, where CMHC provides some cost-sharing for those programs for the upcoming capital year. Is that funding going to expire after the end of 1995-96 or is that an ongoing capital program that will still be accessible through CMHC? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As far as I know, it is still ongoing, but you are dealing with CMHC; you never know. They could slice it tomorrow.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, recognizing that CMHC has hit our government hard on cutbacks, I am curious as to why we wouldn't have maximized this program in this upcoming year to get the dollars out of it while we could. Has it been maximized in the amounts in the budget for the CMHC share or are they at the maximum limits right now? Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ever since I have been the Minister of the Housing Corporation, we have maximized all federal funds. We have never turned back any dollars to the federal government because we couldn't match dollar for dollar. This program is matched and maxed out.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Ng.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

That is it for now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 574

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the departmental overview under corporate mission, we talked about item 3, provide training. Item number 4 talks about promoting individual independence with increased responsibility and accountability. Under 5, it talks about promoting the establishing and growth of private housing markets in a northern economy. On the next page, under the corporate goals, item 5 is to support local economy.

I also know the Minister works very hard to make sure the outside contractor respects community laws and I would like to commend the Minister for that. The Minister tries to ensure that local contractors are used, subsequent to that they hire local people which helps the local economy very much.

We have not been able to fully utilize the local contractors or the local labour. In that respect, we have seen many problems, perhaps not only in Repulse Bay, Taloyoak or Pelly Bay, but in other communities across the territories, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to get specific or name contractors, but there are certain contractors who do not respect community law, especially in communities that have restricted alcohol consumption or are strictly dry. Above and beyond that, there are other social issues that came out as the result of hiring outside contractors. This is not always the case, though.

If the department is to hire local contractors, this would ensure that we help the local economy. Most of the small communities in this particular jurisdiction have a high rate of unemployment in the system. Most small communities in the territories have a high rate of social assistance, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I hope in the future years, we are able to make some corrections to the policy of hiring and using local contractors; or, one day soon, we will be fully utilizing local contractors. Subsequently, in the interim, they should hire local people, Mr. Chairman.

When you hire local people, you are not only ensuring that money stays in the community, but the economic well-being of a community is enhanced and subsequently, and when people are earning money, at least they are able to pay for rent. When they are able to pay for their rent, perhaps people who are working for a long time, even seasonal workers, are one day going to be able to own their own home through the access program of this government.

Again, Mr. Chairman, I commend the Minister. I know the Minister is working extremely hard in order to meet the needs in the communities. He knows the problems; he has been approached on them. I know he knows the problems because he talked to us in the advisory committee meetings. I know the Minister is trying very, very hard, but I hope one day we will be able to solve this problem.

I don't know, Mr. Chairman, if we are going to be able to get rid of the problem we have in this system because every time we try to use local contractors as opposed to outside contractors, there are people out there saying, what about fair business practice. I know this is the case. Until we have a fully legislated policy in the system, it is going to be very hard. But, I want the Minister to be aware of the social problems that are derived from some, not all, outside contractors who were awarded work in the communities.

I don't want to be all negative. There are wonderful things that come out of the work of outside contractors. The workmanship is good and they are able to meet deadlines on time. But, when you use local contractors, you ensure that money stays in the community, and you can be sure that people have pride in building their own homes. Mr. Chairman, you can also ensure that a person who is living in social housing also may know from the inside out of that house and, one day, if that person becomes the owner of a house, he or she will be able to maintain their home. It is very crucial and very important that these things are noted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. I don't know if any questions were there, but maybe you would like to make a response, Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are going to work with the local communities to ensure that the problem that Mr. Arvaluk and Mr. Ningark brought up about drugs and alcohol going into the communities doesn't occur. The RCMP should arrest and charge the people who are bringing in the drugs. And, as far as alcohol, if the community has made a decision to be dry, then contractors should respect that.

I've asked the Housing Corporation as well as DPW to look into building into our tender documents that the contractors should have dry camps. I know that in the majority of the camps in the Northwest Territories, if you are going to work for someone, you sign a paper and you can't bring alcohol into that camp. So, maybe we can address that problem through that means.

We would like to see as many local people benefit from contracts as possible. We have used many different approaches and have put in place many different training programs as well to try to benefit local people. In Mr. Ningark's riding, it has worked fairly well. In other ridings -- in some where we have bent over backwards to accommodate local contractors or people trying to get contracts -- all they've done is get the contract and turn around and hire people from Newfoundland. These are northern local people who have done this.

So, we still police those people as well. We know where they are, we know where they are working, and they are going to pay the price for doing those kinds of things. Next year, they will not get us bending over backwards to do the same thing for them again. It is as simple as that. They do it to us once, and that is it.

We want to hire local people; we want to ensure local people are working on the job, and we will do everything possible. Already we have amended the tender documents to tell contractors that if they say there are northern people in their employment in a community and there are 27 people all coming from Gitzel Street from a one-bedroom apartment, we are going to catch that and they are going to pay, accordingly. We are tired of getting defrauded by a few, bad contractors who live in southern Canada, work their way through the system, and who have lawyers and accountants working for them to show them how to beat the system. That's what we have to police.

A total of 95 per cent of our contractors are excellent contractors. There are just a few that give others a bad name. That's why there is a new business incentive policy. I know we would like to see a simple policy, but a very simple policy which would be developed for honest people. We have a fraction of people out there who are dishonest and that is why we have to state all the rules to try to corner those people and keep them out of our workforce.

We are doing as much as possible at this time, we are going to try to do more, and we are going to ensure that those people who call themselves local and call themselves northerners truly are. Thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 575

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. I'm sure a lot of people will hear your warning. Mr. Ningark.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wasn't going to speak on this further during general comments, but I just want to respond to the Minister by saying thank you. I know I stated

earlier when I made my initial comments on this issue that the Minister is trying very hard to address some of the concerns we have from the communities. I know he is trying and I just wanted to say thank you.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Anyone else? Are there any general comments or statements? Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to say that I have been very frustrated over the years with regard to the numerous small problems that exist in the communities with housing. Some houses are not completed electrically and mechanically in a lot of cases. There are problems with some of the designs of new alternate units. The Minister knows what I am talking about. I hope those types of inefficiencies can be corrected, and I'm sure they will be. That is one of the concerns of the smaller communities.

There are quite a number of outstanding problems that exist in the communities. Whenever I travel to the communities, I am always confronted with the same problems that never get resolved by the Housing Corporation in my region. I just want to say that the regional office manager has made it a point to identify all the outstanding problems that exist in the small communities. They are keeping track of them and if anything comes up in any of the communities, they make note of it. This only started this summer after meeting with the regional office.

Prior to that, there were a lot of promises made by the Housing Corporation staff to the people in these communities, and these promises were never carried through. I've been running into that for the last three years. Finally, this summer, I was able to sit down with the manager and state my case. As a result of that, there is ongoing tracking of all these different problems, and hopefully these problems will get resolved in time.

I just want to let the Minister and his staff know that these outstanding issues that are out there in my constituency and need to be taken care of. The staff of the Housing Corporation made promises to the people in the communities, in this case there were a lot Dene people in the communities, and among Dene people your word is very important. If you give you word, you have to back up that word with some action. In a lot of cases, perhaps there are too many problems to deal with and the person who had been working in that area may have forgotten that some promises were made.

What I'm trying to do is try to identify all these different areas and all these different promises that were made, and make sure that the Housing Corporation lives up to its commitments and the promises that were made to the people in the community. Hopefully, all these outstanding issues will get resolved as soon as possible.

In many cases, I am told, there is funding to take care of some of these problems; yet, there is no work being done on it. But now I am told that they will get on with it and hopefully resolve these problems.

So that's the only problem I have with housing. I still have some problem with the way the access and the needs...There are still a lot of needs out there. The Minister knows that I've taken pictures of people who are still living in tents in my area. Even in the cold of winter they are still living in tents. Gradually we're taking care of these people who are still living in tents all year-round, including winter. This year I have been told that there are a couple of people who are still living in tents who will be getting adequate houses like everybody else. So, hopefully, all these different problems will get resolved.

In the other communities they may have a lot of houses, they may have a lot of people there who they look at and have needs. But when you go to Liard, there are still people who are living in tents. I don't know if you have to work with numbers to determine how many houses each community gets, but there are some real needs out there that need to be taken care of. I'm sure that the department and the Minister knows what I'm talking about, and that these people who really do need the houses eventually will be allocated some units. That's all I have for general comments, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

The Chair Brian Lewis

Any response, Mr. Morin?

Committee Motion 40-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 10, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 576

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too have concerns about project officers going into communities and going into homes and promising things. This even happens in my riding and probably all ridings. Sometimes you may go into an elder's unit and take down information, on paper and elders think that once they've given that information, they're going to get something. That may not be the case. The communication has got to be very clear. In that district, the South Slave district, in general -- out of all our districts -- it is in the worst shape for delivery. That district has fallen behind. They're still delivering programs this year from last year. We have put new management in place; we've taken the old management out and put new management in place. We have reinforced the support into the subdistrict office in your communities, Mr. Antoine. Also, we've put in a monitoring system.

A lot of those problems are irritants. Irritants to the client don't cost very much money to fix. They are usually warranty problems, problems with the way the HAP packages were delivered, or whatever. They are small-ticket items that don't cost a lot of money to fix and should be fixed. We will move to fix those.

I agree that we have to try to get all people that are living in tents out of tents. We have to make sure that projects get delivered in time and get followed up on as well. We are working to do those things. Thank you.