Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 20 has had second reading and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 14-12(6), "Open for Business" - Privatizing the Northwest Territories Power Corporation; Tabled Document 23-12(6), Report of the 1993-94 Electoral District Boundaries Commission Northwest Territories; Tabled Document 36-12(6), "Action Plan - Consolidation - Health and Social Services"; Minister's Statement 11-12(6), Return to Session; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates; Committee Report 11-12(6), Report on the First Annual Report (1992-93) of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT; Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96; Bill 2, Aboriginal Custom Adoption Recognition Act; Bill 3, Guardianship and Trusteeship Act; Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Arctic College Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Public Utilities Act; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Al Menard. He is the president of the NWT Housing Corporation. To my left is Dave Murray. He is the vice-president of programs.

Mr. Chairman, I missed the opening remarks of the Minister for the Housing Corporation, but I have had a chance to review those remarks and I note some initiatives that are outlined by the Minister. My concern is, Mr. Chairman, I believe the corporation is going to have to change substantially as a result of the sad realities of reduced federal cost-shared funding and the need to do more with less or make better use of the existing resources, recognizing that they are reduced. How is the corporation going to change to recognize the new realities in housing in the Northwest Territories? I know the communities are expected to promote

home ownership and that the corporation will be trying to promote more home ownership. That, to me, would mean there will need, in future, to be less emphasis on construction because there will be less construction by the Housing Corporation and more programs designed to encourage people to build their own homes.

I think the Minister is well aware that if we are expecting local housing authorities and associations to do that job, they are going to need a lot more support than they have had in the past. The corporation is tilting towards home ownership, as opposed to building more social housing units. If the corporation is moving to increase rents for those who can afford to pay, again, the pressure will be on the communities. Could the Minister explain how the corporation is restructuring itself to meet the new realities and, particularly, I would like to know whether there is a plan to provide more support, training, development work to community associations and authorities? Everything I hear is they are going to have to do more work and they are going to have more responsibilities. Communities are the key to the new housing strategies in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Up until this budget year, the Housing Corporation has not delivered any fewer homes in the community. We have been delivering the same amount. In the past three years, we have made major, major changes to the Housing Corporation programs and how we deliver them. We have also been doing constant lobbying and trying to get federal dollars reinstated to the Northwest Territories. In some cases, we have been successful. We have been extremely successful in changing the programs and having them made acceptable to the clients. It has taken a lot of consultation work and we have done major consultation at the regional level. At all the regional meetings, it has been made loud and clear to us that we have to refocus the Housing Corporation. We knew that as well. So we are making moves to do that. In the past, the Housing Corporation was focused on delivering units and delivering as many as possible through the construction program. In the past, we haven't been right up to par on the support we are giving our local housing authorities and associations. We are going to change that. Through our new vision statement from the corporation, the new principles and goals that have recently been revised and approved by me, as well as the Minister of Finance and SCOF, are more community-oriented. We tried our best to downsize at headquarters and put that funding into the regions and, ultimately, into communities.

Restructuring doesn't mean that we are going to reduce funding. It means that we have to restructure, so that we can better serve the clients in 1994 compared to years previously. We just have to change the way we do business. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to hear about the restructuring and the new goals that the Minister referred to. When will this House and Members of the public learn more details about this process? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have made a commitment already to have something in the next session.

Mr. Chairman, I realize that the general comments have been exhaustive in the last few days and I don't want to prolong the opening remarks, but I would like to make two comments for the record.

First, the district consultation process was excellent. I participated in the one in Baffin. It was impressive that the corporation chose neutral chairpersons to steer the discussions and that gave people a lot of confidence that the Minister, president and the officials were genuinely open to new ideas.

Secondly, I would like to say that, although we are awaiting the Minister's response to the recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Social Housing, I also wish to commend the Minister for being willing to share the decision-making with that committee. There was some concern that the committee might be only advisory or worse, a rubber stamp. My observations of that committee is that, in fact, the Minister has allowed Members to participate in decision-making on this critical issue, recognizing that it is sensitive and will require broad support in this Assembly, if it is to succeed. So I would like to commend him for that.

There is one area I would like to mention that I think is lacking in the corporation. I find the district staff responsive, beginning with the district manager. I think I have said this before in the House. But like the other department the Minister is responsible for, Public Works and Services, the Housing Corporation does not seem to be leading the way on affirmative action. I hope that when the new corporate goals and objectives are brought forward, that an aggressive affirmative action training program and policy to bring northern people into the corporation will be part of that strategy. My constituents have expressed to me that this is an area in which there could be more progress, particularly at the management level. It is hard work and it takes the aggressive recruitment of northern people to get them involved. It takes training person years, but I think this is an area that I will be looking for more progress and more corporate commitment in the new restructured corporation. Those are just comments, Mr. Chairman. They don't require a response. Thank you.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a small comment to make. It is to the Minister of the Housing Corporation. We are all aware that housing rent is increasing every time we turn around. It doesn't matter whether it is the Housing Corporation staff housing or rental housing. We are always faced with an increase. Because of this, I will be asking the honourable Minister this question: Is it because the federal government is asking for more cutbacks, that this increase is

taking place rapidly? Or, is it because of the shortage of housing? It seems that after the $40 million cut from the federal government, rent for housing has really increased.

We also see a lot of people in public housing units evicted from their houses because they aren't able to pay their rent. We have to go through the hamlet councils in the communities if we are going to go into a public housing unit. What is the reasoning for the monthly increase for the units? Many residents in the communities are not able to keep up with the payment and I can imagine, in the future, this will keep happening. The rent will just keep on increasing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There have been no increases in rent as of today. The proposed new rent scale will come to this House for approval. It has been through extensive consultation at the community level, regional level and MLAs. This government has agreed, so far, to phase that in over three years. The committee is recommending four years. The reason for the rental scale increases...There will be decreases as well for those lower-income people. All rent is based on your ability to pay. In home ownership communities, it is based on 25 per cent of your gross income. In non-home ownership communities there is a false cap. It will be affordable to people. It is based on their ability to pay; a percentage of their wages.

The Member is quite correct when he says that it is based on cutbacks to the federal government as well as housing shortages. If we do not take this artificial cap off, the federal government will levy a penalty against our government's funding, so we would lose money. Also, there is a shortage of 3,600 units in the Northwest Territories. We are 3,600 units short. As long as we continue to allow high-income people to live in public housing, we are saying to those poor people in our communities, the 3,600 people who are waiting for housing, that they can't get into housing because we are going to subsidize high-income people.

I don't think we can afford to do that any longer. We have to encourage those high-income people to vacate public units and move into home ownership and allow social housing units to be available for low-income people who they were designed to serve in the beginning. We are trying to do that in the smoothest possible manner. Thank you.