This is page numbers 78 - 106 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was standing.

Topics

Supplementary To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 86

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 86

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It depends on what region you would like to build in. For example, in the South Slave region, it would be around $140,000. In the Baffin, it is about $160,000. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 86

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Morin, may I correct you, I am not Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 86

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Madam Speaker, Assuming that the Housing Corporation had an important message to

communicate to the people of the Northwest Territories, at a quarter of the cost of a home ownership unit, I would like to ask the Minister if he's aware that Above and Beyond magazine includes in its circulation list; 6,000 copies to the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce; several thousand copies to the Ottawa Board of Trade; and, to the Greenland Chamber of Commerce. I would like to ask the Minister if there's an important message that the Housing Corporation wishes to convey, and if so, is it necessary to convey that message to Edmonton, Ottawa and Greenland? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

No, it's not necessary. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It would be nice to convey the message to Ottawa, but the other places are not relevant. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I would like to ask the Minister, Madam Speaker, if the corporation has determined to spend its precious funds on advertising -- which I think is perhaps a questionable use of its money in light of the critical social housing shortage -- did the corporation give any consideration to spending the money for advertising on publications such as community newspapers which are distributed in communities and households in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would consider that, yes. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Question 51-12(6): Minister's Authorization Of Housing Advertisement
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a question to the Government Leader. It's been about three years since we've been Members of the Legislature. Madam Speaker, we are all aware and have been made aware that the Ministers change their portfolios. I just wondered why they have to give them different portfolios. We have been given information as to which Minister is doing which portfolio. Perhaps there is a problem. Because they change their portfolios so often, maybe they're not really getting used to what they're used to doing. Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 52-12(6): Reasons For Reassigning Ministerial Portfolios
Question 52-12(6): Reasons For Reassigning Ministerial Portfolios
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, one of the reasons why we change portfolios is to adjust workload and also to take into consideration that many of the Ministers have changed, as well. So you try to do the best in fitting interest to portfolios. There are many reasons why Ministers have changed. However, in the end, the Cabinet works as a group, that the changes in themselves should provide a positive approach to the changing times. The government itself, right now with all the new initiatives and the financial restraints is changing itself. So I believe that the Ministers given the responsibility are deemed to be people who could handle change and various portfolios. Right now, what we try to do in looking at government expenditures and how we operate is that many of the different departments overlap in responsibility from one department to the other. So we're working very hard to make some sense and avoid duplication. Thank you.

Return To Question 52-12(6): Reasons For Reassigning Ministerial Portfolios
Question 52-12(6): Reasons For Reassigning Ministerial Portfolios
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 87

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, Return to Written Question 1-12(6), asked by Mr. Dent and replied to by the Minister of Health and Social Services concerning HIV/AIDS related expenditures for the fiscal years 1993-94 and 1994-95.

Mr. Dent asked for a detailed outline of HIV/AIDS related expenditures made in the fiscal year 1993-94 and those planned for 1994-95.

I provided the honourable Member with this information in a letter dated May 16, 1994.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 87

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges would like to present its report on issues referred by Caucus.

Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges has the responsibility to review the rules and procedures of the Legislative Assembly and matters brought to our attention by Members.

The committee received referrals from Caucus, requesting that the standing committee review the following issues: a) rules requiring a Member to stand when speaking in the House as they might affect a person with a physical disability;

b) procedures regarding the recognition of visitors in the gallery;

c) an options paper prepared by the Chairs' Liaison Committee on the operation and accountability of standing committees; and,

d) recall legislation.

The standing committee has examined these issues and is pleased to report our findings.

Review Of The Rules Regarding Standing When Speaking In The House

On November 24, 1993, the committee received a referral from Caucus concerning the rules regarding standing as they might affect a disabled person. Some Members felt that our rules should permit Members to remain seated if "disabled or in discomfort." Caucus shared the concerns stated by these Members. Rule 21 currently states "Every Member recognized shall stand in his or her place and address the Speaker." There are other rules that also require Members to stand; for recorded votes; and, at the time of adjournment.

When Caucus first considered this matter, it was agreed that the Speaker would seek unanimous consent to permit a Member with a physical disability to remain seated when speaking during formal session. This was to be an interim measure pending the result of the review by the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges. The standing committee examined the procedures that are used in other jurisdictions. It was found that each jurisdiction handles these situations on a case-by-case basis. During our review, the committee felt that asking for unanimous consent to waive the rules would draw attention unnecessarily to the fact that a Member is disabled. Committee Members considered the fact that there may be a Member elected who had a permanent disability, or that a Member may suffer from an injury during the course of his or her term that might also make them unable to stand as required by the rules. Members may not wish to bring attention to the disability, therefore it was felt that an alternative method should be developed. The committee agreed that Members who suffer from permanent or temporary physical disability which would require the waiving of the rules for standing, should request, in writing, to the Speaker their need to waive the rules which govern standing. And the Speaker, after due consideration, will indicate to the House at the first opportunity that the rules have been waived for the Member for a specific period of time.

Recommendation 1

Therefore, this committee recommends that rule 18 be amended to add, under (3), "Notwithstanding rule 18(1) does not apply to rule 6(1), 21 and 61(2) if the Member has been granted approval by the Speaker to waive those rules for a specified period of time.

Recognizing Visitors In The Gallery

On March 4, 1994, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges received a request to review the possibility of developing an additional procedure by which Members of the Assembly could recognize visitors in the gallery. Five Legislatures in Canada include an item for the recognition of people in the gallery on their order paper. This allows Members of these particular Assemblies to recognize certain persons in the gallery without having to go through the Speaker.

Current practice in our Legislature provides that the Speaker has the authority to recognize people in the gallery. This serves to avoid the recognition of people for political reasons and protects the dignity and standards of the Chamber. However, the standing committee felt that placing an additional item on the order paper would allow Members to recognize people in the gallery who may not fall within the guidelines the Speaker currently applies and would eliminate the problem of the Speaker having to make the decision of who may or may not be recognized. It would allow the Member to introduce those persons who, in the Member's opinion, may be worthy of recognition.

The committee feels that most Members of the Assembly would still prefer to have the Speaker recognize guests. The authority to recognize guests should remain with the Speaker as much as possible. However, for those less obvious cases, a formal means for Members to recognize people in the gallery should be available.

Recommendation 2

Therefore, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that more liberal guidelines on the recognition of visitors be developed for application by the Speaker.

The committee is of the opinion that the rules should be amended to include an item on the order paper titled "Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery". This item should be placed immediately before oral questions and should appear on the order paper on a provisional basis for the remainder of the 12th Assembly. Each introduction shall be limited to 30 seconds in duration.

Recommendation 3

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that rules 27(1) and (2) be amended by adding the new item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery, to the orders of the day. And further, that all items following the new item 5 be renumbered sequentially.

Recommendation 4

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges also recommends that the rules be amended by adding the following new rule: recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Rule 37(1) under the item recognition of visitors in the gallery, a Member may make a statement of introduction of visitors here in the gallery.

Rule 37(2), introduction made under Rule 37(1) shall not exceed 30 seconds.

And further, that the rules be renumbered to reflect the addition of the new rule 37. And furthermore, that these rule changes come into effect on the first sitting day after adoption and remain in effect on a provisional basis for the remainder of the 12th Assembly.

Operation And Accountability Of Standing Committees

On April 21, 1994, the standing committee received a referral from Caucus to review a paper on the operation and accountability of the standing committees, which was developed by the Chairs' Liaison Committee. The paper presented guidelines to aid in the operation and accountability of standing committees with respect to:

- how Members are assigned or reassigned to committees;

- balancing workloads amongst Members;

- disciplining committee Members; and,

- guidelines for processing living allowances, indemnities and travel expenses.

When developing the guidelines for the operation and accountability of standing committees, the Chairs' Liaison Committee addresses a broad range of issues surrounding committees. The assignment of committee work and balancing workloads was addressed in a section on committee size, allocating of committee seats, length of term of Members and selection of committee chairs.

Committee discipline was addressed in this section on committee expectation and discipline, review of committee performance and committee resources. The Chairs' Liaison Committee made several recommendations which Caucus and the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges reviewed. The following recommendations emerged from these reviews.

Review Of The Discussion Paper On Committee Operation And Accountability

The Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories currently has a large number of committees and caucuses. Some involve both Ministers and ordinary Members. Recently, some committee chairs voiced concern over the lack of attendance by Members and the difficulties in getting a quorum for meetings. The number of committees compared to the number of MLAs means Members are worn thin. As a result, they may place less emphasis on committees which are not of keen interest to them.

Between committee meetings and sittings of the Assembly, NWT Members are currently spending an average of 47 per cent of their work day in meetings. The volume of work does not allow individual Members to become immersed in any one of their committees. Aside from special committees and caucuses, most Members sit as regular Members on two or three standing committees.

Given the significant use of alternates, it appears that it's difficult for Members to become as involved as they may like. Smaller committees would give Members the opportunity to become more involved with them. The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges feels that with smaller

committees and improved committee guidelines, it should be easier to meet quorum requirements.

Recommendation 5

Therefore, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that the membership of the Standing Committee should be reduced to five Members and further, that the quorum for standing committees be lowered to four Members based on a membership of five. Furthermore, that the number of alternates should remain at three Members. Furthermore, that the rules of the Legislative Assembly be amended to reflect the approved changes regarding membership and quorum and that the changes to the rules come into force on the first day of the first session of the 13th Assembly.

Committee Assignments

The two most common ways to allocate positions on committees are by interest and by ability. It is felt that the best way to allocate positions on committees is based on the combination of interest, ability and experience. Members are more likely to attend and participate fully if committee work is a topic of personal interest.

Members should be asked to provide to the Striking Committee a brief written request for the committee on which they are interested in holding a position. The Chairs' Liaison Committee's report proposes that Members provide a description of how their experience and interest would contribute to the work of each committee position requested. The Striking Committee would then try to balance the workload of Members.

Recommendation 6

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that the Members provide brief written information explaining the reason they are requesting an appointment to a particular committee or committees.

And further, that when assigning Members to committees, the Striking Committee should consider the interest, ability and experience of the Member while trying to maintain an east/west balance where possible.

---Applause

Appointment To Committees

Currently, committee Members are appointed at the beginning of each Assembly and unless there are changes in the status of the Member, they remain with those committees for the four-year term. This is the preferable way of handling the length of term for committee Members.

Some Members have suggested that committee membership should be rotated annually. There is always a learning curve associated with committee work and the Members become more proficient and aware of the committee's specific needs over time. Continuity of committee Members allows committees to be more effective in their approach.

Recommendation 7

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that committee Members continue to be appointed for the term of an Assembly.

Selection Of Committee Chairs

Chairs must have the confidence and support of their committees, particularly since they are ultimately responsible for committee discipline and budget expenditures. Chairs should be selected by each committee through a secret ballot election administered by the clerk of the committee.

Recommendation 8

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that chairs should continue to be selected through a secret ballot election administered by the clerk of the committee.

Committee Discipline

In order for committees to function effectively, there must be a commitment and dedication among Members to the work of the committee. It is important that upon initial formation, committees clearly outline their expectations for Members in terms of preparation, participation and attendance at committee meetings. Currently, chairs have no authority to discipline Members who are not making a fair contribution to committee work. Chairs should have avenues for disciplining Members who apparently do not take their task seriously. Stability and consistency in committee membership is important. One way to encourage committee attendance is to tie attendance to monetary items.

Recommendation 9

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that the payment of committee indemnities and living allowances be conditional upon attendance at committee meetings and, further, that committee chairs and ultimately the committee, be given authority to discipline a Member of that committee.

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 90

An Hon. Member

Hear, hear.

Committee Accountability

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 90

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

The Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories has decided that one way to hold Ministers accountable for their actions is through a mid-term review of ministerial performance. However, in a consensus government system, the committees are also powerful in terms of their ability to influence government action. The Chairs' Liaison Committee stated in their report that committees should be required to outline their goals and workplan on a regular basis and that an annual report should be tabled each year outlining the committee's activities for the past year and their proposed workplan for the upcoming year.

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges feels that the goals, workplan and principles for each committee are clearly stated in the terms of reference for each committee and that the reports that are presented to the House serve as the committees' accountability mechanism.

Therefore, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges does not feel that a recommendation is necessary in this regard.

Legislative Assembly Guidelines For Committees

The role of ordinary Members is very important. The committee system is the way in which ordinary Members can influence the decision of Cabinet and make recommendations to the Legislature for action. Each committee has the responsibility for examining its own procedures to ensure that the work of the committee is carried out in an efficient, economic and effective manner. It is important to the work of the committees that Members attend regularly and on time. The standing committee, with the guidance of the Chairs' Liaison Committee, has developed guidelines for committees of the Legislative Assembly. It is attached to Appendix A.

These guidelines have been forwarded to the Management and Services Board for approval and adoption into policy. The guidelines would apply to all committees of the Legislative Assembly.

Recommendation 10

The Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that the committee guidelines be adopted by the Management and Services Board as policy for the administrative operation of the Legislative Assembly.

Recall Legislation

Recall is the legal mechanism whereby a specified percentage of voters can petition for a vote to remove an elected official. If the vote is in favour of removal, there will be a bi-election to fill the vacancy. Caucus asked that the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges examine this issue in more detail as it might relate to the NWT Legislative Assembly.

The committee studied the various strengths and weaknesses of this aspect of direct democracy. Although there are special problems in using recall in a Parliamentary system, implementation in the Northwest Territories is a possibility. If the concept of recall was approved in the Northwest Territories Legislature, it would be up to the government to devise and implement the recall procedures by way of legislation.

Factors which will have to be addressed in detail in the legislation would include:

1. Should there be specific grounds for recall, such as misconduct or incompetence and should the grounds for recall be unlimited?

2. Should there be periods during which representatives are immune from recall attempts?

3. How many signatures would be required for a successful petition for recall?

4. Should there be restrictions on spending during the petition process and who pays for the costs associated

during the petition process? Should there be a fee for the

petition and what would that fee be? Should there be limits to the number of petition attempts?

5. Should there be a time limit for gathering petition signatures? What signature verification process would there be?

6. How long after a successful recall vote should a by-election be held?

7. Should there be a recall vote or should a successful petition remove the elected official from their seat?

8. Which voters are eligible to vote in a recall election?

The standing committee reviewed the issue of recall and feels that, although the issue is important and deserves serious consideration, this committee does not have the authority to pursue the issue to its conclusion.

Recommendation 11

Therefore, the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends that the government develop a legislative action paper on the issue of recall of Members of the Legislative Assembly for tabling in the House.

Madam Speaker, this concludes the review of the issues referred to our committee by Caucus and the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges would like to thank the Members for their continued interest and support in these issues which affect us all. Suggestions for improving our rules and procedures are always welcome and appreciated. Mahsi.

Madam Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges.

Motion To Move Committee Report 2-12(6) To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Iqaluit, that the report of the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges on issues referred by Caucus be received by the Assembly and moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you.

---Applause

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 91

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 91

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 91

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Report 2-12(6) is moved to committee of the whole. The House will recess for 15 minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Committee Report 2-12(6): Report On Issues Referred By Caucus
Item 10: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 91

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I will call the House back to order. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Bill 5, the proposed Mine Health and Safety Act, was referred to the Standing Committee on Legislation on April 7, 1994. The committee began its review and deliberations on this bill on September 6, 1994 and held public hearings in Yellowknife. As Members of the Assembly are aware, this bill has been anticipated for quite some time and, due to its scope and the nature of its provisions, it has been a somewhat controversial issue for the past few years.

Bill 5 continues to be a controversial issue, as the committee heard from a variety of witnesses during the public hearings. Due to the number and nature of the concerns expressed, the committee was unable to complete its review of the Mine Health and Safety Bill as planned.

As a result, the Standing Committee on Legislation respectfully requests an extension to report on the review of Bill 5. The importance of Bill 5 and its potential impact on the mining industry and the health and safety of mine employees has prompted the need for further review.

It was felt by the committee and recommended to the Minister that the bill should be referred to the Mine Occupational Health and Safety Board, established under the current Mining Safety Act. The extension of the reporting period would allow that board's review of the proposed legislation to be completed and the findings reported to the Standing Committee on Legislation by October 10, 1994. The committee will then be better able to complete its review and report to the House prior to the end of the Sixth Session of the 12th Assembly.

Madam Speaker, your committee therefore requests unanimous consent to waive rule 70(1) to permit the Standing Committee on Legislation to complete its review beyond the 120 days allowed by the rules.

Madam Speaker, that concludes the interim report of the Standing Committee on Legislation on its review of Bill 5, the Mine Health and Safety Act.

Motion To Receive And Adopt Committee Report 3-12(6), Carried

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that the interim report be received by the Assembly and adopted.