Mr. Zoe, your motion is in order. To the motion.
Debates of Oct. 5th, 1994
Topics
Committee Motion 4-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 4, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Committee Motion 4-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 4, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
An Hon. Member
Question.
Committee Motion 4-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 4, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Zoe, do you want to go on to accountability of standing committees?
Operation And Accountability Of Standing Committees
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
October 4th, 1994
Page 97
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to the operation of accountability of standing committees, under recommendation 5, our committee recommends, and I move, that the membership on the standing committees should be reduced to five Members.
And further, that the quorum for the standing committees be lowered to four Members based on the membership of five.
Furthermore, that the number of alternates should remain at three Members.
Furthermore, that the rules of the Legislative Assembly be amended to reflect the approved changes regarding membership and quorum and that the changes to the rules come into force on the first day of the first session of the 13th Assembly.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, I'm just kind of curious. I realize that recommendation 5 comes first, but there are also recommendations in here with regard to the chairmen of the standing committees and special committees having the power to discipline committee Members regarding their conduct, especially if they're missing without cause and also with regard to quorum. I'm just wondering whether or not we need to reduce in order to...Is there a need to reduce, if we have committee chairmen, the ultimate authority to discipline Members of that committee, or if there is even a need to have recommendation 9, if this motion is to pass?
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Mr. Gargan, I believe this motion deals with the size of committees and is not to do with powers.
It's just a matter of numbers, really and not the powers that the chair would have.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
I realize that, Mr. Chairman, but you cannot address this without affecting other recommendations. That's the problem I'm having right now. Should we be dealing with recommendations 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 as one whole recommendation or not? If not, then I'm just saying that you can't really address the issue without affecting other recommendations.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Mr. Gargan, if you have too much in a motion, then it could be defeated. There may be one little thing that somebody doesn't like. They may like everything else, but not that one bit. So I think splitting it up like this helps people to sort it out. Anybody else on this motion? Mr. Zoe, maybe you can clarify for us.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, with regard to the operation and accountability of all standing committees, I think our committee took into consideration the Chairs' Liaison Committee, Caucus and everybody who was involved in our discussions. Because we have so many committees, Caucuses and special committees Members were worn too thin. We've noticed that a number of Members weren't participating effectively because they were sitting on a number of either standing committees, special committees or various Caucuses that we had. We had noted that and we looked at the number of sitting days, and the number of committee meetings we had and the workload.
Members are currently spending an average of 47 per cent of their work day in meetings. It's making it more and more difficult. What our committee has indicated is we talked about maybe downsizing a committee membership so that by downsizing it, the Members, through their selection, would indicate their interests.
We're not suggesting that this take place during the 12th Assembly. Currently, we have seven Members with three alternates and so forth. We're not suggesting that we're going to change it in this Assembly. We're recommending that the 13th Assembly will have the new rules in place where the standing committees would all be downsized to five members.
I understand what my colleague from Deh Cho is saying. What this motion I put forward says is that the next Assembly, rather than having seven Members, will have five. The quorum is going to be four and we're going to have three alternates. That will come into force at the 13th Assembly, not during this current 12th Assembly.
The other issues in relation to the operation and accountability of committees would reflect some into our current Assembly. We broke them up in this manner so that we can deal with them because we wanted to deal with some of the items now. In terms of chairmanship, we wanted to deal with it now and give the authority to the chairs and also the committee. So we broke it up in that manner.
But the specific recommendation that we're considering now is being proposed for the 13th Assembly. Thank you.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 97
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thanks. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, one of the concerns I have with regard to the number here again has to do with accountability. In the biggest committees, which are Finance and the Standing Committee on Legislation, right now you have ten Members which are sort of the watch-dogs with regard to laws, finances and government. If the Executive outnumbers them by three, I don't know how effective it can be with regard to having that kind of balance. I wish the standing committee for the next Assembly good luck if they are going to have only five Members. It would require them to convince 19 other Members for their support on certain issues.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thanks very much, Mr. Gargan. I don't know if we had all thought about that. Anybody else on this motion? To the motion.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
An Hon. Member
Question.
Committee Motion 5-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 5, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Question has been called. Those in favour? Those against? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Mr. Zoe.
Committee Assignments
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, with regard to committee assignments, our Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and Privileges recommends, and I move, that Members provide brief written information explaining the reasons they are requesting appointment to a particular committee or committees and, further, that when assigning Members to committees, the Striking Committee should consider the interest, ability and experience of the Member while trying to maintain an east/west balance where possible. Thank you.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Mr. Zoe, your motion is in order. To Mr. Zoe's motion. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Mr. Chairman, with this one here, I support the motion. But just for the record, I'd like to say that when the appointments are happening there be some fairness in the way those appointments are done. In other words, myself, Mr. Chairman, I've been on Legislation for two terms now. The first time I got elected, I was on Finance for my first term. This is my third term, but I'm still on Legislation. I did express an interest during this election that I'd like to serve on Finance, too. But whichever way this election went, I would hope that if they can't determine that then they draw out of a hat or something. I would hope that it's not based on who you know or what you know, but be able to say that these people have served last term and we should give other Members the opportunity to serve. I just wanted to say that for the record in case I get back in again.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Is there anybody else on this motion? Mr. Whitford.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Tony Whitford Yellowknife South
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, share Mr. Gargan's concerns. Although I agree with the motion and will support it, there's a word of caution too, that it's not necessarily those people with the diplomas in that area who are to be on those committees. If that were the case, then I would probably be only serving on social service committees and not on Finance because I don't have a CGA. But if my interests are there, then I think that it should play some role in it. I just wanted to express that caution, that it not be applied strictly to whatever particular type of background you have. Rather, there should be a healthy balance between community people, professional people and others.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thanks, Mr. Whitford. Anybody else on this motion? Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Henry Zoe North Slave
Thank you. To the motion, since a couple of Members have raised the issue, I'd like to speak to the motion that's in front of us, Mr. Chairman. I think our report from our standing committee basically took into concern those as just stated by the two previous speakers. For the record, I'd like to again read the background to the committee assignments.
What our standing committee said was the two most common ways to allocate positions on committees are by interest or by ability. It is felt that the best way to allocate positions on committees is based on a combination of interest, ability and experience. Members are more likely to attend and participate fully if committee work is a topic of personal interest.
Members should be asked to provide to the Striking Committee a brief written request for the committees on which they are interested in holding a position. The Chairs' Liaison Committee's report proposes that Members provide a description of how their experience and interest would contribute to the work of each committee position requested. The Striking Committee would then try to balance the workload of Members.
In that regard, I think we're basically saying exactly what the two Members are saying; that it has to be fair based on their interests, their experience and ability and also try to maintain the east/west balance. I think that's covered in the motion that is before us. Mahsi.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
The Chair Brian Lewis
Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Gargan.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 98
Samuel Gargan Deh Cho
Just one final note, Mr. Chairman, that is with regard to some of the Members who do not speak the English language. Out of convenience, they are being put into certain committees because of a lack of translation.
The other point, Mr. Chairman, is that again it says with regard to the combination of interest, ability and experience is that some Members in this House may never be able to serve on certain committees if that's the only criteria required. All I'm saying is that if you have too many Members interested in a committee, you should be able to find a way of doing it so that you don't anger certain Members. Maybe it's because they're not selected. I'm saying that if the interest is there, that should be all that matters. The way you accommodate or conduct...If a person doesn't speak one of the languages, especially English, then they should be accommodated. But they shouldn't be not selected because they cannot speak English. I want to make sure that there's a balance.
Committee Motion 6-12(6): To Adopt Recommendation 6, Carried
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 99
The Chair Brian Lewis
Anybody else on this item? Mr. Ningark.