This is page numbers 25 - 51 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, the lead Minister for the community wellness strategy is the Minister of Health and Social Services.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The Minister in this status report on zero tolerance for violence had indicated that there is a cooperative approach to wellness. It indicated that this strategy will be loose in giving communities and regions the flexibility to develop programs which respond to local needs. Is the Minister aware that the intention is to provide general guidelines within which specific programs can be developed? Thank you.

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Health, Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, as the Minister of Justice has indicated, we are working together on the issue. In terms of the community wellness strategy project, the Department of Health and Social Services is responsible as the lead group. Madam Speaker, the Member is referring to the fact that in December of 1993, the Department of Health and Social Services, Justice and Education, Culture and Employment established a joint working group to develop a community wellness strategy. This was done in response to the need for a more integrated and community-based approach in service delivery by government.

The joint working group, Madam Speaker, has been expanded to include regional and community organizations. Madam Speaker, the next expanded joint working group meeting will be held in November of this year and the work completed to date and the next steps will be discussed. The framework for the strategy is scheduled for completion by April 1, 1995.

Madam Speaker, a communications plan is being developed to ensure all government departments and members of the public receive information about the strategy development.

Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to thank the Premier for that reply. I direct the supplementary to the Minister responsible for Health and Social Services. When there is freedom to develop programs, there is also the potential for inequity between communities in terms of program funding. Does the government plan to fund specific programs or will each community have an equitable share of the funds which they can apply towards these programs? Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I believe that the issue of how we organize community and community support personnel, is one of major importance. I have indicated to the Legislative Assembly previously that in the work we are doing, we are trying to provide those resources at the community levels. I realize in the past we have created programs in a manner where a certain amount of money is available and then certain communities come forward and are able to access a limited resource. I believe in our workings with the various groups, particularly with communities, we have to organize the support personnel in the community and take into consideration that it is a community that is going to heal itself and will be involved on a day-to-day basis, so those resources have to be provided as a legitimate parcel of support personnel at the community level. So, Madam Speaker, I am not sure, in our continuing deliberations with the joint working group, that it will come out to that fact. But in terms of community development, it is very clear that communities want to be able to establish that support system that will be ongoing, rather than working on an ad hoc basis because there are small parcels of money, which everyone has to apply for.

In our continuing plan to work with communities, the consolidation of Health and Social Services and the whole community wellness strategy, is to provide those services and personnel that are required at a community level equitably. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I think this strategy is a good thing; to have a cooperative approach by all the different government departments to work together to help the communities. This strategy, like I said, will be loose and will give communities the flexibility to develop programs which respond to local needs. I think the Minister is also indicating that.

When the community wellness strategy is developed, will the community-based programs be a supplement instead of the existing territorial program? Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, as I've indicated in the past, the government is attempting to make decisions and place resources at the community level to meet the expectations that people have today and for the future. I believe that in the discussions with many of the communities, there is a feeling that we have programs that should really be adjusted to meet the new age. If, in fact, we are able to rationalize the education and training proactive approach in a community, health and social service workers will be able, particularly, in the area of social work and mental health, be able to more aptly focus on that type of work. I believe that there are a number of positions in every community that may be deployed in a wrong way, or some programs that used to be right for the past but are not right for the present and future.

So I believe that we have to work actively with the communities to evaluate those positions. If there is extra need, because of today's issues, today's problems and looking towards the future, we have to redeploy those personnel. I believe in taking some of the responsibilities away, particularly with social workers, that are more routine such as providing social welfare cheques and evaluation, and redeploy that to another area where it's more productive. These workers are better able to deal with this wellness strategy that we have to have in the communities and work with the communities, instead of being tied up with red tape which is not what they were trained for. Their valuable educational level is not being fully utilized at this time. So it's going to be an incorporation of what we have existing, but also evaluating what people want to see as an ongoing support for communities which reaches out to a more holistic approach.

I believe that the community wellness strategy relates to all government and territorial programs to try to suggest that we need to change those. These include basic traditional values, healing, dysfunction, youth problems, suicide, age, handicaps and racism. These are all issues people are facing today and we have to provide those resources so we can redeploy people so they can actually do the job that people feel has to be done. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Justice. The Premier, in her last reply to the previous question, spoke of evaluations. And that's true, that any program that has been put forward should be evaluated from time to time, and the government does indicate that there are already many, many programs that address violence that are offered by this government. It is important to evaluate the results as part of

the overall government approach to dealing with violence as part of running an effective program. I would like to ask the Minister, is there an evaluation mechanism of current programs dealing with violence in its many forms?

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, we know that the day when a government based in a central location like Yellowknife can afford to try to come up with solutions for communities with regard to the problems that they face is over. It's this government's commitment, as difficult as it is, to take a community development approach in addressing solutions to the kinds of social ills that plague all of our communities.

I'm not certain that we will ever develop a mechanism that will evaluate the effectiveness of the current programs. At best, we can say that we expend a certain amount of money for a broad range of programs and services that are directed at curbing violence at the community level, dealing with the problems that result in violence. The question of whether we have an evaluation mechanism to decide whether or not the current programs and money that we throw at the problems of violence are effective can probably be best answered by saying that we don't, except to say as a general rule. We are of the view that we simply have to hold the line until we can develop a strategy in concert with the women's groups, with the other advocate groups and the communities in developing a strategy which will be developed by April. That would say here is the best way to realign current resources and change policies and directives so that communities have the flexibility they need in order to decide themselves where the priorities are and what type of resources should be allocated according to their local needs. That's what the strategy is.

Other than that, the Member should be aware, for instance, that we spend about $27 million a year to police ourselves, largely to protect ourselves from violent offenders, from violence created as a result of alcohol, from family violence, from assaults and sexual abuse. A lot of this money can be redirected if we can find a strategy that would help us curb and address the reasons for the violence in the first place. We can also redirect a lot of the money we spend currently, paying social workers, mental health workers, alcohol and drug workers, family violence coordinators and many of the other people who commit much of their time dealing with violence, but only dealing with it after it manifests itself. So that's the reason for the strategy. I think that the measuring stick will be in seeing how communities give advice on how to reallocate and place those resources more appropriately. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford. Before we go to supplementary, may I remind honourable Members that your answers are to be as short as possible. Thank you. Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm absolutely astonished that with a reply like that, the Minister indicated they're spending some $27 million. Surely there must be some mechanism in place to determine whether or not the program that has been established is effective. In any program, there is almost always a built-in thing for feedback. There is a mechanism to get feedback to see whether or not this money is being wisely spent, the program's mandate is being met and all those things. I asked a question about whether there is a mechanism for that and I didn't get an answer. I would like to know what form of feedback mechanism there is to determine whether the program is having an effect, either positive or negative, on the people it is there to serve. How do they get feedback on this?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, perhaps the response was not as well worded as it could have been. That is often the case. The point I was trying to make is that we design programs and are trying to deliver services according to our best judgment, through the good advice of Members of this House. There are evaluation components tied to all of these different programs and services. It is just that there is no community element to the evaluations at this time. We are a government faced with dwindling financial resources and increasing demands placed on us by communities.

It is our judgement that we now have to place existing programs and the resources allocated to them in front of communities and, through the development of the community wellness strategy, get the advice of these people on how we can better allocate and make use of existing resources. It is now time to put all the little programs we have in front of these communities and ask them, in their judgement, if we are making the best use of existing resources under the present arrangements.

My expectation is that they will come up with some suggestions and, at the end of the day, we will see what Mr. Antoine is suggesting, that a strategy will deliver to communities some flexibility so that each community can have the say they want to have to determine where the existing resources are best allocated. That is one of the major elements in the plan to develop a strategy. So, the best I can say is, yes, there is an evaluation component tied to the program. It is done in-house by the government and through questions in this Legislature. But, at the end of the day, we need communities to have input and help us do the ultimate evaluation. That is the strategy that we're developing right now. Thank you.

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would hope that there would be some component built into any kind of program that would allow for the deliverers of the program to be able to come back to the government and say whether it is working or not. I think what I was looking for was some explanation of how this was done. I still haven't heard, Madam Speaker, whether this is done on an annual basis through a report, or something like that. I still don't understand what is being done, other than hoping that people come back and say whether it is working or not.

I would like to know whether or not there is some format that people follow when they take on a program to give the government feedback. Is there something like that?

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.