This is page numbers 863 - 902 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 895

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act. Is the Minister responsible for the bill, the Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo, ready to introduce the bill? Mr. Nerysoo.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Student Financial Assistance Act establishes the program for student financial assistance for residents of the Northwest Territories who wish to pursue post-secondary education. The program consists of various grants and loans which are available to the residents, depending on their eligibility.

The revolving student loan fund was established in 1982. The numbers of students requesting loans have increased steadily with one of the larger increases occurring from 1992-1993 to 1993-94. The numbers increased from 707 students in 1992-93 to 1,018 students in 1993-94. These increases occurred in all loans: primary loans, secondary loans, needs-assessed loans, and particularly post-secondary incentive loans.

Over the years, the working capital required in the revolving fund had to continue to be increased because the number of students receiving loans, and thus the value of loans issued each year, continued to exceed the value of loans repaid, remitted and written off every year.

If the number of students receiving loans had remained constant, the revolving fund would have matured in about 15 and a half years, and no further ceiling increases would have been necessary. However, as long as the number of students increases, the ceiling will have to be raised. The rate increase in student loans issued will determine how soon the ceiling will have to be raised again. With the current rate of student loan increases, the loan fund ceiling will have to be raised again in about two or three years. The cost to government in operating a student loan fund is the cost of remitting loans and writing off loans.

Over 230 more students, compared to the same time period in 1993-94, are expected to access remissible loans in 1994-95. An increase in the statutory loan limit, set out in the schedule to the Student Financial Assistance Act, is necessary to allow us to make loans available to eligible students this year and in the future.

However, Mr. Chairman, I recognize that increasing demands on our resources are a problem. Increases in the demand for student loans and student grants, the changes anticipated across Canada in student financial assistance, and federal restraint require that we carry out a comprehensive review of our student financial assistance program by March 1995.

Mr. Chairman, I am now ready to proceed with the review of Bill 20.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Is the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance ready to present his opening comments on the bill? The chair recognizes the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, the Standing Committee on Finance reviewed this bill at its meeting this morning, November 9, 1994. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and his staff were available to answer questions at this morning's meeting.

Committee Members understand that this bill amends the schedule to the Student Financial Assistance Act to increase the maximum total amount of principal that may be outstanding for all loans under this act. The maximum total amount is currently $13 million. This amendment would increase the amount to $18 million.

Committee Members were informed that this increase is required for a number of reasons. There has been a significant increase in the number of students enrolled in post-secondary programs, and a corresponding increase in the number of students receiving loans. In addition, the number of students entering the assistance program exceeds the number exiting each year. Committee Members were informed that the cost to government of operating a student loan fund is the cost of remitting loans and writing off loans.

Recognizing the increasing demands on the resources of the department, the Minister has said that a comprehensive review of the student financial assistance program will be carried out by March 1995. Finance committee Members look forward to reviewing the results of this review.

During this morning's meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance, committee Members agreed to refer this bill to the House for consideration. This concludes the comments of the Standing Committee on Finance. Committee Members will have questions for the Minister when we proceed to the detail of the bill. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Is the Minister prepared to bring in his witnesses to assist him in this matter?

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If it's necessary, yes.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. General comments on Bill 20. Does the committee agree that we go clause by clause?

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Clause By Clause

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 1. Schedule, $18 million.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have agreement. Thank you. Bill as a whole. The chair recognizes the Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to talk a bit on the student loan fund, mainly because just during the last several months I've been dealing with a student who had a loan, a status Indian who had a loan. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with what he's done, but I guess there are certain conditions in which loans are forgiven. That is, if the person passes his course, or if he takes 60 per cent of his course. If the individual didn't complete his course and he didn't get 60 per cent, I presume that, as in a lot of cases, the student, even though he took a program, didn't have the necessary grades in order for him to take the program in the first place. So he's in a position now where the government is asking him to pay up, with interest, his loan.

I just wanted to bring that up because I presume that in a lot of cases you will see aboriginal people are the ones who will be put in that kind of a position. When loans are given to aboriginal people, it should always be clear that if they don't pass their course or if they fail because of this 60 per cent margin, then they're going to be in trouble. They should realize that even before they sign on the dotted line to get that loan.

In a lot of cases, the programs that a lot of aboriginal people are in are not considered educational programs, so their status doesn't really make a difference. In most cases, they pay for their education, but they don't pay for accommodation and meals. That's the part that students get loans for and that is the part that is quite a burden for them, even though it has nothing to do with their courses. It has more to do with accommodation and meals. I just wanted to make that point, Mr. Chairman, before we conclude this. Thank you.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Minister, did you wish to reply to that? Then, the chair will now recognize the Member for North Slave, Mr. Zoe.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have a big problem with the bill we are discussing. As you are aware, Mr. Chairman, the Standing Committee on Finance has priorized education as the first priority of this government and I definitely

agree with that priorization. With regard to the Minister's comments earlier, Mr. Chairman, he said that he will be undertaking a review by March 31, 1995 to take a look at the student financial assistance.

I know there are various types of loans given out by the department. Some are forgivable and some are not. I know that is going to be reviewed, to see how we can improve assistance for students. But I wonder if the department would also consider situations I ran into earlier this year, where part-time students were not receiving financial assistance from the government because they weren't enrolled as full-time students. I wonder if the department will also be considering part-time students. Currently, the way the regulations are in the act, assistance available only to full-time students going to post-secondary schools.

We do have a number of students who return, who may not have full credits to complete their course. They may require two or three credits, or maybe they are in their second term, and cannot go back until the following year and would like to pick up two or three credits during the year, maybe by attending evening classes say, for instance, at Arctic College. Currently, that opportunity is lost for them because the system we have in place doesn't allow for that. So, I wonder if, in this review, the department would look at the overall impact of student assistance for part-time as well as full-time students. Thank you.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Minister Nerysoo.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we will be reviewing that as part of the component for student financial assistance, generally. What I also want to indicate to honourable Members is that it is not only a matter of reviewing the student financial assistance program; all components of the program will be reviewed an examination of what is there now and whether we need to be a little more generous in some areas. We can reprofile things to respond to the needs that the honourable Member is talking about. That is part of the review and it will be considered.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The bill as a whole.

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree that Bill 20 is ready for third reading?

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 20: An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Bill 20 is now ready for third reading.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

November 8th, 1994

Page 897

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We will move to Bill 19, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, under tab 19. Is the Minister responsible, Mr. Pollard, prepared to introduce the bill? Mr. Pollard.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Supplementary Appropriation No. 1 requests authority for additional appropriations of $72.009 million. This supplementary appropriation consists of $30.945 million in O and M and $41.064 million in capital.

In operations and maintenance, Mr. Chairman, the most significant amounts are $20 million for the additional costs of the 1994 forest fire suppression program; $2.839 million for the increased requirements to the social assistance program; $1.148 million for the increased requirements of the court services program; and, $1.008 million for the increased requirements for the corrections program.

In capital, Mr. Chairman, the most significant amounts are $17.430 million to provide funding for the 1994-95 social housing program to partially offset funding reductions imposed by the CMHC; $16.484 million to finance the carry-over of funding from the 1993-94 fiscal year to the 1994-95 fiscal year to complete capital projects started during 1993-94, but not finished; $1.080 million to provide funding for the implementation of the building and learning strategy in pilot communities; $1 million to provide funding for the Canada/NWT infrastructure agreement; and, $1 million to provide funding for modification to the Canadian Coast Guard icebreaker Terry Fox, to enable the vessel to deliver dry cargo and fuel products to Pelly Bay on an annual resupply basis.

Mr. Chairman, the combined effect of these supplementary appropriation requirements has been to change the fiscal projections for 1994-95 from a balanced budget to a deficit of $35.6 million. Mr. Chairman, I will be pleased to try to answer any questions Members may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Legislation prepared to make comments to the bill? I'm sorry, I meant the Standing Committee on Finance. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 19: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 897

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Finance reviewed Bill 19, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95, at its meeting on October 26th, November 2nd and this morning, November 9, 1994. The chairman of the Financial Management Board and his staff were available to answer questions at the November 2, 1994 meeting.

Mr. Chairman, in total, this bill represents an additional appropriation request of more than $72 million for the 1994-95 fiscal year. If this bill is passed, the total voted appropriations for the fiscal year 1994-95 will be approximately $1.25 billion. During the November 2nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance, committee Members agreed to refer this bill to the House for consideration. As has been the practice, I will speak to the major issues. Members of the committee will have additional comments when then we proceed to the detail of the bill.

The largest capital item in this appropriation bill is a special warrant of slightly more than $17 million. This funding is required to partially offset the funding reduction for social housing imposed by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. This appropriation also includes approximately $16 million of capital funding, not previously authorized, to carry over funding from the 1993-94 fiscal year to the present year. This will provide funds to complete capital projects started but not finished between 1993-94.

Bill 19 includes two special warrants approved by the Financial Management Board for a total of $20 million of operations and maintenance funding to cover 1994-95 forest fire suppression costs. Committee Members were informed that the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources will be consulting with communities to come up with a plan on how to contain these costs in the future.

Committee Members are concerned that during this time of fiscal restraint, this bill includes a number of requests for funding to support new person years. Funding is requested for a total of 33.5 person years, 14.5 of which are casual positions. Close to $3 million is needed to support these person years.

Higher-than-anticipated costs with social assistance continue to appear as supplementary appropriation requests. Bill 19 includes costs close to $3 million in funding not previously authorized to address a deficiency expected in the social assistance program. The projected deficiency is based on recent expenditure trends and amendments to social assistance earned income allowance. The committee would like to see the Department of Social Services develop and implement more accurate forecasting techniques as soon as possible.

Bill 19 includes more than $1.7 million for implementing the building and learning strategy in pilot communities. Due to the significant investment of public funds in this initiative, committee Members would like to see an assessment of value for money. Committee Members are concerned about a special warrant approved on May 3, 1994 to transfer $500,000 of operations and maintenance funding out of the youth initiatives program and the Department of Social Services. Committee Members believe that the youth initiative program is a valuable one. Bill 19 indicates that this funding is being transferred to finance the Gwich'in work activity and Arctic College northern skills development pilot projects. These pilot projects are apparently being undertaken through the investing in people pilot initiative and the Department of Education, Culture, and Employment.

That concludes my remarks on the Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1994-95. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.