This is page numbers 55 - 89 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was violence.

Topics

Return To Question 48-12(5): Decision On Increase In Territorial Tobacco Tax
Question 48-12(5): Decision On Increase In Territorial Tobacco Tax
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 64

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, we find ourselves, geographically, in a very difficult situation because the extreme eastern part of the Northwest Territories is dependant on supplies from Quebec. The middle portion relies on Manitoba and, of course, we, in the west, either deal with BC in a small way or we deal with Alberta. We are getting trapped in the situation that Ontario finds itself in and that is, there is a jurisdiction, particularly in the east, that has lowered its taxes.

If I could just give you some idea, in Montreal the prices dropped from $47 a carton down to $22.73 a carton. Merchants in Iqaluit are already saying to me that I have to follow suit because the effect on them has been $62 down to $53.01 a carton in Iqaluit. They are saying that at $22.73 a carton in Montreal versus $53.01 a carton in Iqaluit, smuggling is going to be on the increase.

Having set the scene about the difficulty of the geography, certainly the western provinces have agreed, at the Health Ministers conference, that they were not going to follow the federal government's line. They also stated that they were somewhat annoyed at the federal Minister of Health for not fighting stronger to keep these taxes in place because there was going to be an increase in consumption of tobacco. That's been proven in the past.

Tomorrow, I will be talking to the RCMP, Madam Speaker, to discuss the problems of enforcing laws in the Northwest Territories in this regard. I will also be seeking the counsel of other jurisdictions in this area, the Yukon, BC, Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan -- I already know where Quebec is at -- to see what they're going to do. From that, I'll be able to advise Cabinet on a decision to make. Personally, I have been lobbied by two Members of this House that we should move into the federal tax room and keep tobacco taxes high in the Northwest Territories and, hopefully, keep consumption of cigarettes down. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 48-12(5): Decision On Increase In Territorial Tobacco Tax
Question 48-12(5): Decision On Increase In Territorial Tobacco Tax
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 64

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Housing and it is with regard to the proposed rental rate increase for public housing, and with regard to some of the answers we've heard in the House today. Presently, what is the rental rate structure? Is there a difference between the east and the west and, if so, what forms are the differences in? Mahsi

.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Back in 1983, when this policy was developed, home ownership communities and non-home ownership communities was how it was based. There were some communities in the Northwest Territories that were eligible for home ownership, so they had the cap removed from the rental structure. Whereas, there were other communities, at that time, that were not eligible for home ownership. In 1993, all our communities are eligible for home ownership. So that's the biggest difference.

For an example, I'll use Tuktoyaktuk. If you make $75,000 a year, I think you pay approximately $1,600 a month rent, and the cost of living is the same as in Pangnirtung. However, if you live in Pangnirtung and you make $75,000 a year, your rent will be $275. That's the difference, so we're going to try to make that more fair and equal it out. Thank you.

Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. From what I gather from what the Minister of Housing is saying, the idea is to equalize it by raising the rent and take the cap off in the east. Is that what the Minister is intending to do? Mahsi.

Supplementary To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The purpose of this is to make things fair throughout the Northwest Territories. For those people who can afford the rents, they should be paying rent. It will be proposed to the Advisory Committee on Housing, as well as to this House, before it's finalized.

We have some cases where, for example, in Iqaluit we have two members in one family who both work and make from $70,000 to $80,000 a year, for about $160,000 gross. They pay about $225 a month in rent. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister of Housing also indicated that if we don't do this, increase the rent and stabilize and equalize the rent, then the federal government will take back the O and M money. What does the Minister mean by taking back the O and M money? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I guess the way the agreement is with CMHC is that we collect rent and then we use that to fund our O and M. They are funding us right now for a certain portion of O and M money. If we do not increase the rents, we are currently getting $45 million a year from the federal government for O and M, they would take that money back from us and it can amount into the millions and millions of dollars a year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Question 49-12(5): Status Of Rental Rate Structure
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Another question to the Minister of the Housing Corporation. Will the people who are under home ownership, who are in the process of owning their own home, be affected by the increase? Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Minister of Housing, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 50-12(5): Effect Of Rental Increases On Home Ownership Program
Question 50-12(5): Effect Of Rental Increases On Home Ownership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. No, it will not effect those people who are in the home ownership program. The pay-back will still be the same as it is, and it will encourage people who are living in public housing to move into home ownership housing. Then it would free up public housing for those lower income people who need it. Thank you.

Return To Question 50-12(5): Effect Of Rental Increases On Home Ownership Program
Question 50-12(5): Effect Of Rental Increases On Home Ownership Program
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, to the Minister of Housing. When I asked the Minister about whether he might see a conflict by serving on the Advisory Committee on Social Housing and himself serving as the Minister, he said no. I understand that where there is a conflict is where you make, perhaps, financial gains. I would like to ask the Minister whether there is a conflict here when you make political gains.

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I would like to ask you to rephrase your question. A question should be asked to Ministers with respect to their particular responsibility, determining whether it's their responsibility. Political gains, as you phrased, seems to be somewhat unclear to the chair. Therefore, I would like to ask you to attempt to rephrase your question. Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The point I was

trying to make is that we have a situation in which the Minister is serving on a committee that is supposed to make recommendations to his department. I'm just wondering whether, by virtue of him serving on this committee, he is using the committee to make gains for his department, and whether that would constitute conflict.

The Speaker

Mr. Gargan, with all due respect, the chair is of the opinion the question you are asking is not within the responsibility of the Minister of Housing. I believe you are asking an opinion of a Minister with regard to his responsibilities and I am somewhat concerned about the question you're posing. I would like to ask your indulgence, and respectfully ask you to somehow rephrase your question. Thank you.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to address my question to the Minister of Housing. Has the Minister of Housing requested a legal opinion on whether or not serving on the advisory committee is in conflict with his department?

---Ruled Out Of Order

The Speaker

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. I recognize your question is somewhat appropriate, but I believe it has been posed to the wrong Minister. Your question should be directed to the Minister of Justice. Ministers should not be asked questions of legal opinions. Therefore, I would like to ask you if you would be willing to pose the question to the Minister of Justice, with his particular responsibilities respecting the Minister of Housing. Thank you. Mr. Gargan.

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Justice with regard to a situation in which a Minister is serving on a board that perhaps might influence the direction his department would take. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice whether or not, by virtue of the Minister serving on the committee, he is in conflict, or whether the Minister can obtain an opinion on whether there is a conflict?