This is page numbers 155 - 182 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was languages.

Topics

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 19-12(5), agenda, Nunavut educational planning meeting, Rankin Inlet, Northwest Territories, February 9 and 10, 1994. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following documents. Tabled Document 20-12(5), Public Accounts of the Government of the Northwest Territories

for the Year Ended March 31, 1993, volumes one and two. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Keewatin Central, Mr. Todd.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 21-12(5), Diamonds in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. I wish to table, Tabled Document 22-12(5), Auditor General's Report on the Audit of the Consolidation and Financial Statement of the Government of the Northwest Territories for the Year Ended March 31, 1993.

Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(5), Report of the Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy, Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy; Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper; and, Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commission of the NWT for the Year 1992-93, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like to call the committee to order. We have a number of items in front of us that have been identified by our Speaker, as being in this committee. I would like to ask Members what they would like to deal with first. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the committee would like to deal with Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the committee's permission to have you invite the Languages Commissioner into committee of the whole to act as a witness, immediately following a short break.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I'm very good at taking a hint, ladies and gentlemen, so we will take a break. First of all, I have to get the agreement of the committee that the Languages Commissioner can appear before us as a witness. Are we agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

We will recess for just a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 15th, 1994

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The Chair Brian Lewis

I would like to call the committee of the whole to order. Before the break you will recall we had agreed to invite the Languages Commissioner to the witness table. Sergeant-at-Arms, could we have all the witnesses at the table.

I would like to welcome Ms. Betty Harnum, the Languages Commissioner, to committee of the whole. All Members have Tabled Document 11-12(5), which is the official languages report, "Meeting the Challenge," and they also have an executive summary of this document. Members will also note that this report, which was tabled in the House, is available in all the official languages of the Northwest Territories, in summary form, and can be obtained from the Commissioner's office. With that, I would like to ask the Commissioner, since there are no other witnesses, other than herself, if she would address the committee.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Harnum

Is my voice loud enough? I have a cold, so I hope my voice will hold up. To begin with, I would like to express my appreciation to the Legislative Assembly, for appointing me as the first Languages Commissioner of the Northwest Territories under the Official Languages Act. Thanks also to the former Speaker, the honourable Michael Ballantyne, for his patience and guidance, as we all embark on this new adventure. I look forward now to working with the new Speaker, the Honourable Jeannie Marie-Jewell. We have already had a chance to discuss some of the issues which confront us.

I would also like to thank my staff for all their dedication and hard work. In the first year, the office had only two positions, myself and a secretary/administrative assistant, as well as some contract and casual help. Since April 1993, we have had a full-time researcher/writer position, which has proven to be essential. I want to say a big thank you to both Benoit Boutin and Gwen Ohokak for all of their work. All of the administration complaints, inquiries, research and the writing of the annual report, which took 11 months, have been handled by these few individuals. I sincerely appreciate their efforts. Thank you too, to the staff of the Legislative Assembly for their assistance in our administration.

I also want to say thank you to all of the staff of the GNWT, the Legislative Assembly and all of their institutions, who work very hard to implement a very novel piece of legislation. We are breaking new ground in the Northwest Territories. We have eight official languages and aboriginal languages have official status. There are many challenges and we all have to work hard to make it a success. Your efforts are greatly appreciated by the people I have encountered.

My experience as Languages Commissioner, to date, has been very challenging, exciting and demanding. Many questions have arisen that need to be addressed and I am grateful for this opportunity of discussing some of these matters today before the Assembly. I know that the groups and individuals, the constituents of all the MLAs' ridings, who have confided in me in the past two years, are also looking forward to these discussions.

The annual report, which is before the Assembly today, covers the fiscal year 1992-93. We are already beginning to write our second report. The report we are dealing with today raises many issues which came to our attention in only one year. Some of the problems have been satisfactorily resolved, some are ongoing and many issues remain to be discovered.

When I accepted this job, I took it very seriously. I felt perhaps as the European explorers felt when they set out for this new world. I embarked on the "ombuds-ship" to explore unfamiliar territory. I was asked to return from this voyage to report on my discoveries. Well, the first thing I found out was that I was a stranger. Nobody had encountered an ombudsman in the NWT and they did not understand the mission. When I arrived in this new place, I found as many explorers before me, people who had ideas, hopes, expectations and cultures that were different from my own. I had to try to come to an understanding with these people about who I am, what I was asked to do, what powers I have to accomplish my goals, what approaches should be used and what priorities they have. My voyage has lasted almost two years now and I am here to report to you on my findings.

One of the major questions that continues to be perplexing is the role and authority of the Languages Commissioner. Since this position is new, no clear guidelines yet exist for a reporting relationship. Who should the Languages Commissioner report to, other than to the Assembly through an annual report? That is required in the act. Who provides direction to the Languages Commissioner on a daily basis? Who assesses the performance of the Languages Commissioner to determine whether or not it is satisfactory? What powers does the Languages Commissioner have, especially with regard to investigations? Since the Official Languages Act is silent in these matters, there is a lot of room for interpretation.

I have had to confront all of these questions and develop solutions that I felt were appropriate. I see my role in very broad terms. The NWT Interpretation Act, section 10, states that, "Every enactment shall be construed as being remedial, and shall be given such fair, large and liberal construction and interpretation as best ensures the attainment of its objectives." I have, therefore, taken a very broad and liberal interpretation of my mandate, so as not to impose limitations on myself or on those who will follow me. I want to ensure that the Languages Commissioner, now and always, will have at his or her disposal all possible means for resolving problems quickly, effectively and fairly. The effectiveness of the Languages Commissioner can only be ensured by the exercise of sufficient authority.

I mentioned that the Official Languages Act is silent with regard to specific powers of the Languages Commissioner. Section 20(1) directs the Languages Commissioner to "take all actions and measures within her authority, with a view of ensuring recognition of the rights, status and privileges of each of the official languages and compliance with the spirit and intent of this act in the administration of the affairs of government institutions, including any of their activities relating to the advancement of the aboriginal languages in the territories." But what "actions and measures" are within this authority? Other ombudsman legislation in Canada and other jurisdictions usually spells out these powers very clearly, the power to hold public hearings, demand documents, subpoena witnesses, or it specifically incorporates provisions from another act, such as the Public Inquiries Act. Since our Official Languages Act does not provide this clear direction, many questions have arisen about the Languages Commissioner's authority. It is up to this legislature to clarify these powers.

Another major issue is accountability. I know that it is important to the Members and to the public that the Languages Commissioner be accountable. But it is also very important to me that I do not compromise the independence of this position. Without accountability, the Languages Commissioner risks losing the trust of the Members for whom she or he works, and the confidence of the public, whose concerns she or he is responsible for representing. But, as Daniel Jacoby, citizens' protector for the province of Quebec, stated at the national ombudsmans' conference, which I attended in Toronto in November, "Without independence, the ombudsman does not exist." I am conscious of the need for both accountability and independence, and you will see that my first recommendation asks this Assembly to establish a standing committee on official languages, to which I may report as required.

Just one more comment about these two aspects of my job. If the Members limit too much the powers of the ombudsman, they risk losing the confidence of their constituents, who expect that this position was established to cut through the everyday red tape that all citizens encounter in trying to resolve problems with their government. And we must all admit that there are always some problems to be resolved. People are happy that this legislature saw fit to establish such a position, and are now relying on all Members of this Assembly to reconfirm their commitment. But people also want to see a process for accountability, and therein lies the delicate balance.

People have commented that they are pleased that the Legislative Assembly has begun discussing official languages more often. The comments I have received from the Members' constituents have indicated that they feel it is time to talk, time to address their concerns about official languages, to try to find effective solutions and to implement changes as quickly as possible. My annual report clearly shows that despite all of our efforts, all minority languages in the NWT, all aboriginal languages and French, are under stress, and in almost every case, declining.

I am directed by the Official Languages Act to make recommendations to the Assembly. I have made 30 recommendations in my first annual report.

I have made these recommendations based on the issues NWT residents have brought to my attention. In presenting them, I have tried to fulfil my mandate as I see it: to promote all the official languages; to encourage linguistic groups to work together; to create, among NWT residents and all other individuals, groups and institutions that deal with our residents, a greater understanding of and appreciation for official language groups and their needs and aspirations; to contribute to the preservation, development and enhancement of all our official languages; and, to assist people in resolving their problems as quickly as possible, so that everyone clearly understands that the implementation of official languages in not a waste of time or money, but a right by which each individual may express himself or herself through his or her own culturally appropriate medium.

I would now be happy to discuss the report with you and to determine how the recommendations can be addressed. Thank you.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. I believe that this is one of the forms of accountability. Since you recall, two years ago, I believe all Members were involved in the process of determining how we would establish this office and how we would choose the Commissioner. I would like to encourage all Members of the committee to ask any questions they would like to address to the Languages Commissioner. Mr. Pudlat.

General Comments

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Languages Commissioner, for reporting to the committee. In the report it states that you have travelled to some areas to deal with languages. When you were travelling in the 1993-94 year, in one area it said you have travelled to the south nine times. I would just like to find out why you had to travel out of the NWT that many times, as a Commissioner of Official Languages. I would just like to get a response to that question. Thank you.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thanks very much, Mr. Pudlat. I would like to ask Members that when they address a question, they address it through the chair so that we don't have it to and fro between the witness and the Members. So could you respond to that question, please?

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Harnum

I would just like to ask the Member if he is referring to a specific document so I can address the specific trips that he's talking about.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Pudlat, the issue is do you have any specific travel in mind that you would like the Commissioner to respond to? Mr. Pudlat.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the report it states that the Commissioner had to do a lot of travelling to do with languages. My question is, when the Commissioner travels outside of the NWT it states you travelled outside the Northwest Territories nine times. When you have to travel out of the NWT, I would just like to find out why you have to travel out of the NWT for what reasons? Is my question clear? Thank you.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Ms. Harnum.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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Harnum

(Translation) I will be speaking in Inuktitut. I understand your question but I would just like to get a clarification as to where it states or in which report it is written about the nine times I travelled outside of the NWT. But to answer your question, for example, I went to the Yukon and I also went to Ottawa. I travelled to Ottawa three times. I had to meet with the Commissioner for Languages in Canada and his officials. I met with them to work with them and find out what I can do in our area and I just met with them to deal with the different languages. We were dealing with the acts because some of the acts that we deal with here are used in Canada, and the different provinces. Those are some of the reasons I had to travel to Ottawa. I went over to Ottawa and met with the Secretary of State and the Treasury Board because I was trying to find out how the agreement is dealt with. I met with the Treasury Board with the federal government. I went over to make a presentation about the official languages in the NWT and discussed the acts. This was before the regulations came out.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Do you have any further questions, Mr. Pudlat? All right, Mr. Zoe.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, in general comments, I have a number of comments I would like to make. This is to follow up on what my colleague from Baffin South has indicated in terms of her travel. I am quite interested in that area, but I want to ask the Commissioner about the work that she does. Mr. Chairman, the Commissioner, in her report, indicates that she has taken a broad interpretation of her role. I wonder, Mr. Chairman, does she see her role as assisting all territorial residents who have difficulties with our Official Languages Act? Is that the way she sees her role?

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Ms. Harnum.

Tabled Document 11-12(5): First Annual Report Of The Languages Commissioner Of The NWT For The Year 1992-93
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Harnum

Yes, I think one of my roles is to do promotion about official languages. By that, I understand that to mean to help people understand why language is important to people, what sort of problems people might encounter if they don't happen to speak the major language of communication, English or French or whichever community they happen to be in. Part of my role is to help people understand the difficulties that people can run into, any sort of language problems that they might encounter. Particularly, if they are NWT residents. One of the things that we should be aware of in the Territories is that, because we do have an Official Languages Act, with eight official languages, and we are the only place in North America that has official aboriginal languages, many people invite us... I have been invited to Germany. I was supposed to

go to Phoenix last week. I have been invited to a number of places to speak. I didn't go to those places, but I am invited on a regular basis to go to speak about our Official Languages Act, to explain how we can manage to implement all of those official languages and why it is important to do that. I see that as part of my role, not just to help people in the NWT understand, but to help other people outside, in other parts of Canada or the world, understand the importance of language and why it is important to have official status for these languages and what it means.