This is page numbers 183 - 213 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

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Return To Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 196

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Department of Social Services is not the only department, also there is the Department of Justice and the Department of Health. The three of them are working together and I'm not certain when they will finish their responses, but I will give him that information tomorrow. Thank you.

Return To Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
Question 134-12(5): Social Services' Response To Family Law Review Recommendations
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 196

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for High Arctic, Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Madam Speaker, a written question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources.

Would the Minister responsible for Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources please provide the following information to this House:

1. Could the Minister provide a report on the percentage of northern residents and aboriginal persons employed in currently operating NWT mines for the past year?

2. Could the Minister provide a report on the turnover rates for northern residents and aboriginal employees working in each currently operating NWT mine in the past year?

3. Could the Minister provide implementation on any agreements made with currently operating NWT mines covering northern employment and northern benefits?

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to Madam Premier.

Would the Premier please advise this House of the following:

1. What was the purpose of Madam Premier's trips:

September 17 to 22, 1993, Cambridge Bay to Alaska; and September 24 to 28, 1993 to Yakutia, Russia?

2. Were the trips by commercial flights or by chartered aircraft?

3. Can Madam Premier provide a breakdown of all costs associated with the trips which were costs to the GNWT?

4. Can Madam Premier provide a list of all individuals participating on the trips?

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Written Question 9-12(5): Monitoring Of Big Game Hunting Outfitter Quotas
Item 6: Written Questions

February 16th, 1994

Page 196

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister of Renewable Resources.

Would the Minister responsible for Renewable Resources please advise what is the process used by the Department of Renewable Resources to monitor big game hunting outfitter quotas?

In the issuing of licences?

By each region?

Mahsi.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, replies to budget address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, in accordance with rule 42(10) I wish to table Tabled Document 23-12(5) which is a response to Petition No. 1-12(5) concerning bussing, presented by Mr. Todd and responded to by the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, February 21, I will move the following motion.

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, that this Legislative Assembly adopt the designation "Premier" to refer to the Government Leader and chair of the Executive Council of the Northwest Territories.

Madam Speaker, I should indicate that I will be seeking unanimous consent to proceed with this tomorrow. Thank you.

The Speaker

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning

Strategy; Tabled Document 3-12(5), Towards a Strategy to 2010: A Discussion Paper; and Tabled Document 11-12(5), First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner of the NWT for the Year 1992-93, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 197

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 197

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee consider Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5), immediately following a short break.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

We shall take a short recess at the call of the chair, probably about 15 minutes.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will again come to order, after our short recess. The item was Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5), the Report of the Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates.

We've already heard the opening remarks of the Premier. Does the standing committee wish to make a report on the item? Yes, Mr. Zoe.

Department Of Executive

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95Committee Report 2-12(5): Review Of The 1994-95 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 197

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad to present the standing committee report on the Department of Executive. Mr. Chairman, the standing committee's report on the Department of Executive is divided into four major sections. The first section addresses the major reorganization now in progress. The remaining sections deal with the three separate and distinct programs which make up the department: Executive offices, Financial Management Board Secretariat, and Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs.

Reorganization Background

Mr. Chairman, over the last year the executive has been undergoing a transformation from a small collection of loosely organized central agency functions to a large, complex super department. Of all reorganizations that have taken place in this government, this is certainly the most substantial. As part of the initial briefing with the chairman of the Financial Management Board, the Finance committee was given a briefing on this reorganization. Figure two in our report illustrates the new organizational structure.

Mr. Chairman, the committee was informed by the Premier that the restructuring was based on conclusions drawn by the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group and the Cabinet. However, committee Members noted that the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group does not have a mandate for such decision-making. Rather, it is a consultation group responsible for bringing issues to the table of the Caucus strategic planning workshops. It appears that the restructuring was based partly on the Strength at Two Levels report and partly on recommendations from key Cabinet advisors.

The rationale for the dramatic changes to the Department of the Executive was that there was a need to address three structural problems. The first problem was the existence of confusion and overlap with respect some central agency functions, in particular those of comptroller general, deputy minister of Finance and Financial Management Board Secretariat.

A need for increased coordination, among various central functions was cited as the second structural issue which required organizational change. An example of a lack of coordination due to functions being housed in separate ministries, was between the collective bargaining function which was housed in the Department of Personnel and the expenditure control function which resided in the Department of Finance.

The third problem, Mr. Chairman, which was addressed by this major reorganization was that important structural elements were missing in the government's organization. Two examples of missing functions were given. In the old organizational structure, there was no ongoing program evaluation function nor was there an information management function. In the new structure, each of these functions is housed within a separate organizational unit in the Financial Management Board Secretariat (FMBS).

Second, human resources mandates have been split into two separate operating areas. Collective bargaining, labour relations and human resource planning functions have been assigned to the Financial Management Board and merged with the FMB Secretariat. The staffing function remains with the Department of Personnel. Further, Mr. Chairman, the committee was informed that within this new structure the Cabinet establishes direction, adopts policy and determines the bottom line. FMB sits as a management board on behalf of Cabinet. Collectively, they are responsible for ensuring fairness, consistency and accountability for how assigned resources are managed.

Mr. Chairman, committee Members have a number of concerns about the reorganization of the Executive management functions. Some concerns were identified during the briefing on reorganization. Others surfaced as Members reviewed departmental operating budgets and held discussions with Ministers and officials.

The committee did not receive a clear message about the goal the government is striving to achieve with this massive reorganization. The government talked about the problems being addressed as the foundation upon which the change was built. However, Mr. Chairman, there was no reference to the expected outcome. The Finance committee, ordinary Members and the general public are left without bench marks to measure the success of this major shift in the way the Government of the Northwest Territories operates.

Mr. Chairman, the committee is not convinced that all of the major consequences of the reorganization have been identified or addressed. Change has a ripple effect. A change in one area impacts on other areas. Committee Members will remain alert to unanticipated consequences flowing from the reorganization.

Mr. Chairman, while the committee is in total agreement with the need for increased coordination of government functions, Members do not believe that the total consolidation of critical functions is necessarily the most effective means of achieving that goal. With the old structure and the diffusion of responsibility, came the benefit of a number of different perspectives, both bureaucratic and political, on issues of the day. With the new consolidated structure, where power is concentrated and access points to Cabinet restricted, the opportunity for bringing the depth and breadth of varied perspectives to bear on various issues is reduced.

Mr. Chairman, the responsibility for managing the government's critical resources has been centralized. The management of financial, human and information resources is concentrated in the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Only the management of the government's capital assets resides elsewhere. The impact of this concentration can be the overloading of key senior managers. As well, there is a risk of the immense central agency becoming a bottleneck for decision-making.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned that some critical checks and balances may not have been incorporated into the new structure. For example, while combining the comptroller general and secretary to FMB roles may serve to strengthen the comptroller general function as suggested by the Auditor General, it places the ultimate responsibility for both financial planning and control into one position. There is a risk in this consolidation of compromising both the comptrollership and the budget planning functions.

Further, Mr. Chairman, the departments of Finance and Personnel have been stripped of functions and responsibilities. Their position as equal to all other departments has been severely weakened. Particularly in the case of Personnel, the need to maintain departmental status, structure and resources are all called into question.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the impact of the new streamlined organization on political communication, the accountability of Cabinet to the Legislative Assembly and the operation of open government. As noted previously, Mr. Chairman, the access points to Cabinet have been severely reduced. Members see the new structure creating the potential for the political agenda to become overly controlled by the bureaucracy. Committee Members suggested that this potential diminution of political power could be counterbalanced with the reintroduction of political committees or Cabinet subcommittees.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the effect of the new structure on the balance of power among Ministers. Ministers are supposed to be equal partners in the business of directing government operations. The new streamlined structure, with a concentration of central agency functions in the Executive, gives the impression that, structurally, some Ministers may be much more influential than others in overall decision-making. The possibility of this occurring was confirmed during the Finance committee hearings, when some Ministers deferred discussion of departmental direction and management to the Premier and the chairman of the Financial Management Board. Mr. Chairman, this suggests that the Government Leader and the chairman of the Financial Management Board should be held to a higher level of accountability than other Ministers for government decisions and resource management.

A corresponding consideration is the balance of bureaucratic power. Members wondered if the creation of super ministries was intentional. If so, it seems that the senior bureaucrats in these departments have a wider range of responsibility and accountability than those in other departments. If the shift in the balance of political and bureaucratic power is intentional and continues to exist, the committee will be considering ways and means to introduce a higher level of accountability for these positions.

Mr. Chairman, the committee Members are concerned about the impact of the reorganization on regional operations. At a time when we should be strengthening the regions, it is unclear how the new highly centralized structure will affect decision-making in the regions. There are some disturbing signs that there may be less flexibility in regional decision-making with regional directors reporting through the deputy minister to the Executive.

Finally, the committee does not understand the rationale for the Ministry of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs to be included with the Executive department. The focus of the briefing on reorganization was financial and human resource functions; Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs was not discussed in this context. The linkages between this function and the others contained in the Executive are not obvious.

Executive Offices

Mr. Chairman, the Premier informed the committee, in her opening remarks, that the government expects to bring forward new initiatives, in the coming months, in the following areas:

- income reform;

- employment initiatives;

- economic and renewable resource development;

- deficit reduction; and

- housing.

Social Justice Issues

Notably absent from this list of new initiatives, and from the resource allocation of the budget under review, is any mention of social justice issues. For example, Mr. Chairman, the committee supports the efforts of the Department of Justice in presenting the Declaration on Family Violence on behalf of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories and in developing and tabling a strategy for dealing with violence. However, Mr. Chairman, the committee was very disappointed to find, during its review of the main estimates, that few, if any, new resources have been allocated, in any department, to help ensure that the goals set out in the declaration become a reality. If resources are not dedicated to this important statement of principle, it raises expectations without much chance of achieving objectives.

Mr. Chairman, the committee's review of the Department of Health indicated that, once again, it appears that there is little improvement in the department's approach to health issues. The department has been advised by a number of groups, in the form of some very strong recommendations, about what is required to improve the department's record of providing health services to its clients. These groups include the Auditor General of Canada, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Standing Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions, the Special Committee on Health and Social Services and our committee, the Standing Committee on Finance. The department has not responded to any of these groups. Frustration is building. The citizens of the Northwest Territories cannot wait for these much needed improvements to the health system. The government must address this situation immediately.

Mr. Chairman, in reviewing the operations and maintenance budget put forward by the Department of Social Services, the committee discovered that no new commitments had been made to community agencies and programs to support initiatives in family violence or child sexual abuse. These are very serious problems which are plaguing our communities and the government, in failing to allocate additional resources in these areas, has not demonstrated its commitment to develop and provide solutions.

Strategy to Eliminate Violence

Mr. Chairman, the Government of the Northwest Territories has taken an important step in making zero tolerance for violence a reality. Committee Members feel that the Premier, as Government Leader and Minister responsible for the women's advisory task, should demonstrate the government's commitment to this strategy by coordinating its development and implementation. Committee members feel that the Premier should be responsible for ensuring that departmental responsibilities across government are identified and that interdepartmental work is facilitated.

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, our committee made a recommendation.

Recommendation 3

The committee recommends that the Premier coordinate the development and implementation of the government's strategy for eliminating violence against all people. The committee further recommends that a preliminary report on progress made be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates and a final report prior to its review of the 1995-96 main estimates.

Income Security Reform

Mr. Chairman, the Ministers of Social Services and Education, Culture and Employment presented a new income security reform proposal to the committee during the budget hearings. The proposal incorporates three fundamental ideas. First, economic and resource development would provide more opportunities for northerners to earn a living. Second, skills development programs would give northerners the education and training necessary to be able to take advantage of the opportunities available to them. And third, the income support system would be reformed to provide incentives towards productivity, better integration with federal programs and the tax system, assured income for those unable to participate in the labour force, and so on.

The committee is glad to see departments such as Education, Culture and Employment and Social Services planning to work together, as in this program. Committee Members are also glad to see some of the federal government's recommendations being incorporated into the plan, as well as new initiatives such as Investing in People.

However, committee Members are very concerned about the ability of the two departments to coordinate efforts and to acquire and dedicate the necessary resources to ensure the success of this major initiative. This observation is made in the context of the large number of major initiatives being proposed, by this government, for the 1994-95 fiscal year. The concern remains even though it was suggested that the consolidation of Executive functions would allow the government to more effectively focus attention on managing the government's agenda, setting priorities and monitoring the implementation of major initiatives such as the income security reform.

Key Priority Areas

The Premier noted three key priority areas which are being coordinated through the department and the Government Leader's office, but do not have resources specifically tied to them. These three areas are as follows: - division;

- labour policy review; and

- departmental consolidation.

Division

Mr. Chairman, division of the Northwest Territories will have the most significant impact of all issues on the future Governments of the Northwest Territories. Committee Members believe that the path leading to 1999 is one that should be planned very carefully, and look forward to seeing this planning become more conspicuous and accountable. At present, the Premier said there is one person within the Executive offices working on issues of division. However, planning for the creation of a special joint cabinet/ordinary Members' committee to deal with the issue of division is under way. Committee Members look forward to reviewing the details of this committee's mandate and the resources allocated to its operation.

Committee Members are concerned that the costs associated with division should be clearly identified and put forward as a financial responsibility of the federal government, in keeping with the Nunavut political accord. The committee noted, for instance, that the incremental costs for setting up two separate headquarters for Arctic College is an increased cost of division. As such, this is one of the areas that should have been highlighted and federal funding sought. If a number of these kinds of initiatives fall through the cracks, the Government of the Northwest Territories could find itself in very serious financial difficulty.

Labour Policy

Mr. Chairman, in view of the failure of the proposed Northern Workplace Commission to achieve political support and because the government still believes that the issues to be addressed by that commission are critical ones, the Premier has committed to return to Caucus with a revised issues paper on labour policy. She stated, further, that once it has been discussed in that forum, the issue of the resources required to support the development and implementation of labour policy will be raised.

Committee Members referred to the failure of the Northern Workplace Commission to achieve political support as an example of the type of problems that can occur in a heavily centralized system. The failure, in the committee's opinion, was a result of missing checks and balances in the Executive decision-making process and a lack of political strategy.

Departmental Consolidation

Mr. Chairman, the Premier stated, in her opening remarks, that what were once ten activities in the Executive office have been consolidated to three: Commissioner's office; Ministers' offices; and, Executive Council Secretariat. This consolidation of activities did not involve any reduction at either headquarters or in the regions. However, the Premier noted that it should lead to better coordination within the Executive.

With respect to this topic of departmental consolidation, the Premier made particular reference to the Department of Personnel and the Departments of Health and Social Services. A decision on the Department of Personnel is expected soon and the Premier made a commitment to return to the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group with further details on cost efficiency of different options and the anticipated effect on the affirmative action policy. However, Mr. Chairman, it is noted once again that the Reshaping Northern Government Working Group does not have a mandate to make decisions. Committee Members would like to remind the government that these and other reorganization issues have to go through the proper channels, including a review of the financial implications by the Standing Committee on Finance.

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the Health and Social Services amalgamation, the Premier said that the comments of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services are being carefully reviewed and the government's position will be contained in its response to be tabled in the Assembly this session. Committee Members look forward to the opportunity to assess the government's response to the recommendations of the special committee and determine if sufficient resources have been allocated to ensure success in this very important endeavour.

Another reorganization issue which, although not raised with the Premier during her meeting with the committee, remains a concern of the committee, is the future of the Housing Corporation. Plans have been in place for some time to convert the corporation into a government department or to amalgamate it with an existing department. In fact, the first major step in that direction - the elimination of the board of directors - has already occurred. The Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation informed the committee that the advantages and disadvantages of maintaining the corporate structure are being investigated along with ways and means to streamline and reorganize the way the corporation does business. It is expected that this work will be completed by the end of March. The committee looks forward to reviewing the results of this analysis at that time.

Mr. Chairman, in the opening remarks of the Premier, I also noted that there are three Ministers who are accountable to various areas. The Premier is responsible for the overall Executive department, and particularly to the Executive offices. I have two other sections in the Executive department, but the appropriate Minister will be responding to their own portfolio. That concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance pertaining to the portfolio that the Premier has. Before I conclude, Mr. Chairman, I would like to return to recommendation 3, from our committee, pertaining to the Premier portfolio.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 197

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee recommends that the Premier coordinate the development and implementation of the government's strategy for eliminating violence against all people. The committee further recommends that a preliminary report on progress may be provided to the Standing Committee on Finance prior to its review of the 1995-96 capital estimates and a final report prior to its review of the 1995-96 main estimates.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 201

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 201

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 201

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 201

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, that concludes that portion of the committee's report pertaining to the Premier's responsibility to the Executive department. I understand we have two other Ministers who will be appearing before us. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-12(5): To Adopt Recommendation No. 3, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 201

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Madam Premier, do you wish to respond to or comment on the reply of SCOF?