This is page numbers 689 - 717 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was community.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Arvaluk, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Mr. Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Lewis, Hon. Jeannie Marie-Jewell, Hon. Rebecca Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 689

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Good morning. Mr. Clerk, would you please ring the bells, we are short of a quorum. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Amittuq, Mr. Allooloo.

Nunavut Tunngavik Presidential Election
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like, today, to stress the importance of the upcoming election of the Nunavut Tunngavik president which is being held this coming Monday. The Nunavut Caucus has a good working relationship with the aboriginal group which represents Inuit within Nunavut and I'm confident that this relationship will continue after the election of the new president.

I would like to thank Mr. James Eetoolook of Taloyoak, who has been acting president for the past few months, for the hard work and dedication he has shown to the organization.

---Applause

Madam Speaker, to those who are running for the presidency, I, on behalf of the Nunavut Caucus, wish you well. I believe the voters will choose the best person for this important position. To my fellow Inuit, please do not forget to vote on Monday. The polls are open from 10:00 am to 7:00 pm and are located at annex C of the Yellowknife Inn. If you are not on the voters list and are eligible to vote, you can be sworn in when you come to vote. Let us show the rest of Canada that we are involved and interested in our own future. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Nunavut Tunngavik Presidential Election
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Electing A Government Leader By Popular Vote
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Prior to and during this session, I've been working on a discussion paper on electing a leader by popular vote. Members recall that this was an item that was supposed to have been discussed in Cambridge Bay at our strategic planning workshop. The matter was deferred. This issue has been a subject of informal discussion during the six years I've been a Member. It has not proceeded to a full-blow examination in Caucus for two reasons. First, ordinary Members enjoy the privilege of being able to choose the Cabinet. Second, Ministers enjoy being Ministers in a system which makes the Premier leader in name, but with limited authority compared to her southern counterparts.

Change doesn't come very easily or very quickly, Madam Speaker. Some Members will recall the long period of time it took to make many of our internal elections, which took place behind closed doors, into a public process. That was quite a battle. There is widespread disenchantment with the political process today. Citizens have indicated they want more mechanisms for them to be involved in the issues important to them. During the last decade, at least one political party has been formed and has obtained considerable public support for one reason only, and that promise is the promise to involve citizens more in the political process, and no real political platform beyond that.

In the absence of political parties, one obvious form of direct democracy which could work in the Northwest Territories is the election of the Premier in a general election. I believe the issue should be examined at our strategic planning meeting in Fort Smith. I will table a paper outlining how a leader could be elected, while retaining the essential power of the Assembly to remove both Cabinet and Government Leader. I will table, today, a short paper which examines the ramifications and technical problems in relation to choosing a leader by popular vote. Thank you.

Electing A Government Leader By Popular Vote
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Baffin South, Mr. Pudlat.

The High Cost Of Airfares In The Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is not the first time that I am going to talk about this through a Member's statement. In Baffin South, we have been paying a high cost of living and also high costs of air freight and airfares. We are very concerned about the high costs of airfares. For example, from Iqaluit to Lake Harbour is only about 25 to 30 minutes and it costs $127 one way. Madam Speaker, I have talked about the children's airfares. As soon as they reach the age of two, they have to pay full airfares. I would like to ask the Department of Transportation if they could do something about the high costs of airfares in the communities. Thank you.

The High Cost Of Airfares In The Baffin
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

The High Cost Of Living In Small Northern Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. (Translation) Today, I would like to talk about the concern I have and the concerns that have been expressed by my constituents, with regard to the high cost of living and high cost of products that people buy from the stores. It is not just about my constituency, it concerns all the communities that have no road access.

I know, Madam Speaker, that in the north the cost of products is higher and they have a limited amount of stores in the communities. If there is only one store, and the co-op is not as strong as it should be in the communities, the prices are very high for groceries and other products. Madam Speaker, I would like to also say that Consumer Affairs should be protecting the consumers in the north. In the bigger communities the prices are not as high as in the smaller communities. I would like the government to look into the high costs of products in small communities. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The High Cost Of Living In Small Northern Communities
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I rise today to advise the House and my constituents that I will be absent from the House next week. As Members know, my wife delivered our new son prematurely in Montreal last week.

---Applause

And I have taken the advice, sagely offered by many in this House, that I should get me hence to Montreal to bring them back.

---Applause

Absence From The House
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Appreciation To NWT Literacy Council
Item 3: Members' Statements

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, on behalf of the MLAs of this legislature, I would like to thank the NWT Literacy Council for providing T-shirts for all of us. Being able to speak in any language is a privilege, but being able to read is equally important. I would like to commend the NWT Literacy Council for their hard work in trying to promote reading and writing, not only in the area of English, but as well in other languages. Thank you.

---Applause

Appreciation To NWT Literacy Council
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Care Of Sled Dogs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today I would like to speak on a matter that will soon be coming up here in Yellowknife. Recently, I listened to an interview on the radio with an NWT dog musher by the name of Dave Olsen. This was prior to the start of the 1,500 mile Iditarod race in Alaska. It seems that certain animal rights groups are trying to stop events such as the Iditarod, Yukon Quest -- and, no doubt, they will be looking at us shortly -- claiming that this is cruel and mistreating animals, and that they are using animals for the amusement of men.

In the interview, Mr. Olsen, who raises dogs for a living, expressed the sentiments of the dog mushers well, people I have had the pleasure of knowing over the years who raise dogs, which are bred and born for racing, they are raised and trained with care and affection, and they work well with their trainers, not unlike any other show dog or cat that they have in the south. For these dogs, that is their purpose in life and they are treated, in my opinion, with all the care they need.

Madam Speaker, I have been associated with the Yellowknife Rotary Club for a good number of years. The Yellowknife Rotary Club sponsored the 150 mile Canadian championship dog race here on Yellowknife Bay. It's over a three day period of 50 miles each day. I have yet to see, in the ten years that I've been working on that dog race, closely associated with the mushers, cruelty to animals out there on the ice or anywhere, as a matter of fact, in the handling area. They are groomed, they are fed, they are watered. Even out on the trail they are petted. They work hard.

May I seek unanimous consent to conclude?

Care Of Sled Dogs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Whitford.

Care Of Sled Dogs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, colleagues. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, they are tended well out there on the race. I've been associated with dog teams for many years as some of the Members here have, as well, raised dogs in their youth and run them. We look after them because they are part of our life. I no longer raise dogs but I am associated as closely as I can be. I am very concerned, Madam Speaker, and that is why I raise this issue that soon those same animal rights people will be here looking at this Canadian championship dog race and stating the same thing, that this is very cruel. I, for one, Madam Speaker, denounce that kind of statement because they are unfounded and they are interfering in areas where they know little or nothing about. I want to say, for the record, that the mushers have the full support, I am sure, of a lot of people who are associated with this sport and bring a certain amount of recognition to the Northwest Territories through their efforts. Thank you.

---Applause

Care Of Sled Dogs
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

(Translation) Thank you, Madam Speaker. Last year during a special chiefs' meeting of the Assembly of First Nations in Ottawa, the chiefs unanimously approved the designation of March as Aboriginal Languages Month. The chiefs of Canada have recognized that language is part of culture, and it carries the key to self-determination and our future as a First Nations people.

This was done to focus more attention and effort to support aboriginal languages in Canada. Recognition of our languages is recognition of ourselves as a distinct people. It is essential that we express our beliefs and ideals through our own languages. Languages define our thoughts, our values of beliefs and our traditions. We cannot become complacent in our efforts to promote aboriginal languages. Unlike Euro-Canadians, we have no option for returning to the old country and to relearn a forgotten tongue. Once a northern language falls into disuse, it is gone forever. (Translation ends)

Madam Speaker, I am proud of my language and I believe that my language is a very important part of defining who I am as a Dene. This government has started down the road to dealing with the problems surrounding the use of aboriginal languages. Programs administered by the government such as taping of oral histories is an important part of this process. However, Madam Speaker, it is equally important for this government to remember just as it is important to gather traditions of the aboriginal elders, it is also necessary to share and disseminate information and languages with younger generations.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Antoine.

Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Since 1990, this organization, the NWT Literacy Council, has done an excellent job in promoting literacy in the NWT. Projects under way include working hand in hand with CBC to raise awareness through interviews and contests. The council has plans to publish native language books written by and for teenagers. This is an excellent program that will not only promote reading of one's own language, it also helps to develop young authors' writing skills. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like to say at the outset to everyone, especially the MLA for Baffin Central, I am a strong supporter of the Pangnirtung fishery. When I was Government Leader I accompanied the Honourable Tom Hockin, then Minister of Small Business and Tourism. We travelled by snowmobile to the site of the first turbot fishery. Mr. Hockin subsequently extended assistance to help get the fishery going, and since then it has prospered and has, in fact, been given significant financial support through the NWT Development Corporation.

As Minister of Education, I also worked with the Honourable John Leefe, then Minister of Fisheries for Nova Scotia, who came to Baffin several times to help Inuit fishermen get access to the excellent fisheries training available in Nova Scotia which I think has worked well.

I will never forget Mr. Leefe's advice to our government at that time. He said that in developing our fishery we had two clear choices to make. We could follow the Newfoundland model: very generous government subsidies for over-capitalized equipment and facilities for large corporations. This approach ignores the reality of real markets and real costs and is ultimately doomed to fail because government cannot afford huge subsidies forever. Or, we could follow what he described as the Nova Scotia model which focused on small businesses, inshore operations and reasonable limits on loans and subsidies to respect the real economy.

Recently, Madam Speaker, I have dared to ask a few questions about the policies and mandate of the NWT Development Corporation when it comes to market disruption. My inquiries have been inspired by the concerns of a small Iqaluit-based company in which northern residents have invested their own money. I have been surprised at the defensive reaction of the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. He rather contemptuously described my corporate constituents as a minor player. I would have hoped, Madam Speaker, that the Minister would have more respect for a small business, which is trying to become involved in developing the eastern fishery using their own capital and without reliance on heavy government subsidies.

---Applause

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Mr. Patterson, your allotted time has lapsed.

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I seek unanimous consent to conclude, Madam Speaker.

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Patterson.

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Madam Speaker, I winced at the fulminations of the Member for Aivilik when he was on this side of the House and I am enjoying watching him suffer a bit now that I am over here.

---Laughter

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Keewatin Central...(Microphone turned off)

---Laughter

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Keewatin Central. The Member for Aivilik had some tirades, too.

---Laughter

Madam Speaker, I am going to screw up my courage and gird my loins...

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Some Hon. Members

Ooh!

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

(Microphone turned off)

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

---Laughter

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I am going to dare to ask some thoughtful questions about the Baffin fishery and even about the Pangnirtung fishery, not because I am against the jobs that have been created in Pangnirtung, but because I want to make sure we don't follow the Newfoundland model in Baffin Island. So, Madam Speaker, I hope the discussion will be reasonable and my questions can be answered openly and without undue defensiveness. Thank you.

---Applause

Subsidies For Small Businesses
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Gargan.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will be making a statement on a book I read called the "Pied Piper of Hamelin." I have to return it by the end of the month, so I thought maybe I should make a statement now.

Madam Speaker, I listened, with interest, to the Minister of Renewable Resources the other day when he described the killing of thousands of muskrats in Holland. Because these rats do damage to the dykes in Holland, they are trapped and killed. The Europeans, being fine moral people, would never use the pelts or meat for anything useful. Instead, the carcasses are thrown into the ocean. Madam Speaker, the major reason Europeans are so interested in what goes on in our country when it comes to wildlife is that they have managed to kill off most of their own.

---Applause

Vast tracks of forest have been laid to waste by the poisonous emission of their factories.

---Applause

One only has to look at the difference between our own history and legends and the European legends which are aptly called "fairy tales."

---Laughter

In our Dene legends, harmony with nature and the land is stressed. In the European tradition, in fairy tales such as Little Red Riding Hood and the Pied Piper of Hamelin, the rats always get theirs in the end.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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An Hon. Member

That is right.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

With this type of cultural education, it is little wonder that there is not much free wildlife in Europe. Madam Speaker, maybe we could write our own fairy tales for the north, a little politically correct one, something like the Pied Piper of Rankin.

---Laughter

We could have the honourable Member as the hero of the story, maybe something along the lines of piping all the seals out of the water onto the ice, where it would be reasonable to be harvested and the vast majority allowed to return to the waters.

Madam Speaker, this silly example I used illustrates the difference between the aboriginal and the European cultures. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue my statement.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Mr. Gargan.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 692

Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and honourable Members. Madam Speaker, this silly example I used illustrates the difference between the aboriginal and the European cultures. We look at the seal or the caribou as a resource, a source of food that has to be managed responsibly for the benefit of present and future generations. The Europeans and their collective guilt for having killed off their own wildlife have a romantic notion of what nature is. They cannot understanding our living in harmony with the land around us.

Madam Speaker, in the Pied Piper of Hamelin, there is a poem which goes as follows: "Each children has its worth, each death will be paid. A promise is kept, a promise is made or a time will come for the piper to play and charm all hope of our future away." This is the basic moral of this fairy tale. What we have to make the Europeans understand is that we, as aboriginal people, realize where our future is. We, as a government, have promised to do everything possible to ensure wildlife will exist for our future generations. Madam Speaker, I plan to write a book, if I ever get out of politics, called "Discovering Europe from an Aboriginal Perspective." Of course that means I have to go on a fact-finding trip. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Laughter

---Applause

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Madam Premier.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I wish to return to item 2, Ministers' statements.

Differences Between Cultures On Use Of Wildlife
Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Madam Premier is seeking unanimous consent to return to Ministers' statements. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed.

Minister's Statement 51-12(5): Response To The Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Revert Back To Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, the report of the Special Committee on Health and Social Services was tabled in this House on November 18, 1993. This report was a major undertaking and reflects input received from people across the north. It calls for fundamental changes in health and social service programs throughout the Northwest Territories and will have a significant impact on the way several government departments deliver services.

I will be tabling the government's response to this report within a week. The extra time being taken beyond the 120 days requested by Members is to allow for translation and to allow for the incorporation of input from all Ministers.

I would, once again, like to thank the committee for their work and to reaffirm that the development of a comprehensive response is being treated with the utmost importance by the government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

---Applause

Minister's Statement 51-12(5): Response To The Special Committee On Health And Social Services
Revert Back To Item 2: Ministers' Statements

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 293-12(5): Criteria For Living In Outpost Camps
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Ningark on March 15 regarding the criteria for living in outpost camps.

Assistance for outpost camps has been provided under the community harvester assistance program since 1992. At that time, the guidelines for this program were revised to increase the opportunity for local decision-making on the allocation of funds for renewable resource harvesting. People who wish to obtain financial assistance under this program should hold a general hunting licence and should apply through the local wildlife committee.

Some of the items which are eligible for assistance under this program include fuel for use during harvesting, materials for a shelter and equipment and supplies essential for subsistence harvesting operations. Each region and community decides on the priority of use for funding under this program. Thank you.

Return To Question 293-12(5): Criteria For Living In Outpost Camps
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Baffin Central, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 282-12(5): Payment Of Gst By Social Assistance Recipients
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Ningark on March 14, 1994 regarding social assistance and the GST. The GST is administered by the Government of Canada, as a tax on goods and services. It is applied to any purchaser, whether they are on social assistance or not. The Department of Social Services does not have a policy on this, but of course it is expected that social assistance recipients will comply with federal laws, including paying the GST.

Social assistance recipients should be eligible for the GST tax credit on their income tax returns. The amount of refund that they would receive would depend on their annual income and the number of dependants they claim on their tax return. When social assistance recipients receive this refund, it is not counted as income in determining the amount of assistance they receive. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 282-12(5): Payment Of Gst By Social Assistance Recipients
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Aivilik, Mr. Arvaluk.

Question 320-12(5): Advertising Re Consumer Affairs
Item 5: Oral Questions

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. Given that there are some instances of price gouging going on in the small communities, especially in those communities where there is no competition, people in the communities have no real idea what Consumer Affairs does. Can the Minister tell me what kind of advertising the department does to make sure people, particularly in the small communities, know what Consumer Affairs can do for them?

Question 320-12(5): Advertising Re Consumer Affairs
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Question 320-12(5): Advertising Re Consumer Affairs
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not totally aware of all the advertising that is being done, so I'll take the question as notice and report back all the advertising and information that we provide to our communities.

Question 320-12(5): Advertising Re Consumer Affairs
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. According to my statement today about March being Aboriginal Languages Month, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for languages, the Honourable Richard Nerysoo, does the Government of the Northwest Territories recognize that March is Aboriginal Languages Month? If they recognize that it is,

what has the government done to promote, support and enhance aboriginal languages for the month of March?

Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Mr. Antoine, you have asked two questions of the Minister. Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment.

Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would ask that the question be deferred to the Premier, who is responsible for the matter of the aboriginal languages agreement.

Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Return To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, in this last week, the issue of setting Aboriginal Languages Month was discussed between myself and the department. There is an initiative to proclaim a week or day or something to recognize this very special month. The question I asked is what the program of activities is to recognize the very important matter. We didn't have a program. We didn't have a plan of events to enhance this notification so people will have aboriginal languages brought to their attention. We are fully informed that this special month has been proclaimed.

My suggestion to the department is that we plan for another time, maybe three months from now before school ends, to set aside our own week. It should be accompanied with proper advertising, proper input, with special activities around it. At this time, it would be very simple to go along with the flow and proclaim something, but I don't believe we should just proclaim a week or a month and do nothing about it.

We are planning some activities and we will be proclaiming, once we have those activities in place, activities with schools, adult education and we will put out posters at that time. Madam Speaker, I'm not suggesting that we are ignoring this special time, but I believe we have to do something more than just proclaim a month and not have a program and action behind it. Thank you.

Return To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. As Dene, I started speaking my own language first and learning English later. I totally support this Aboriginal Languages Month. This was declared by the chiefs of the Assembly of First Nations on March 30, 1993. There has been sufficient time to plan, in coordination with other First Nations in Canada, to recognize aboriginal languages. Previously, there was just one day, March 31, that was recognized. It was recognized that one day a year was not sufficient time to raise awareness of the aboriginal languages. It was decided to set aside a month for this.

Letters went out to First Nations schools, so that schools could be involved in this. I would like to ask the Premier, if she is responsible for this, if anything has yet been done by the government to recognize March as Aboriginal Languages Month in the schools and communities. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I realize that this was proclaimed by the Assembly of First Nations. When we discussed this earlier this week, I did a bit of fact-finding to find out what the aboriginal nations had done about it themselves and what active programs were being developed. To this point, I see none. All I'm saying is that I believe it is important and it is being recognized. It is not that we are discarding it, but I feel we can proclaim a week, sometime in the future, to make sure that we do the action required to give it a little more support than just verbal acclamation. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Question 321-12(5): GNWT Publicity Of Aboriginal Languages Month
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister responsible for the Department of Transportation. I have in front of me an ad for a transportation planner that has been advertised in the Toronto Globe and Mail. As we all know, the Toronto Globe and Mail is a fairly broadly distributed newspaper. It is very expensive to advertise in it, something like $1,500 for an ad that we can get here in the Northwest Territories for something like $250.

The point of this whole thing, Madam Speaker, is why are we advertising in southern newspapers when we should be advertising in the north? I thought we had a buy north and hire north policy. What is the policy of the department when it comes to advertising, not senior positions, but positions like this in southern newspapers?

Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Your question should be posed to the Minister of Personnel, who is responsible for advertising. However, I do not see the Minister in the House. Madam Premier.

Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Madam Speaker, I just want to note that the Minister is out of the House because she had an urgent call that her daughter was ill. She should be back momentarily. So, if you want to pose that a little later, she will be back shortly.

Question 322-12(5): Policy For Advertising In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 694

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources. I've heard some discussion about a fact-finding mission to some European countries in connection with the fur trade. I would like to ask

the Minister exactly what is the intention or the purpose of this visit.

Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the visit that we're planning to have in the next few weeks would be to make contact with the various governments of the European countries. For myself to meet with the Ministers of Environment in each respective country to convey to them the seriousness of the situation as we see it, regarding the implications of their regulations and the economic European community regarding import of wild furs after December 1994. To ask them specifically to intervene on our behalf, to recognize that people cannot forget that Canada has an abundance of wildlife, but also aboriginal people who are dependent and living in coexistence with that wildlife. European people should be equally if not more concerned about the survival of aboriginal people and not just the foxes, bears and seals that run around this country. Thank you.

Return To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister knows that the people who are concerned with animal welfare are a very tough bunch of people. I would like to ask the Minister what approach is he going to take on his visit in dealing with people who have forces that are pushing them very, very powerfully in the opposite direction?

Supplementary To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, the message to these governments will be that the Europeans may not think they are the only people in the world who are concerned about wildlife. We are concerned about our wildlife as well, and we will give them some examples of some of the work we do which is recognized internationally for the manner in which we will conduct ourselves in the management and the preservation of wildlife. And that they have a few things to learn from us, judging from the situation they have in Europe. There are some things we can work on together. There are some requirements for Europeans to recognize that beating up and wiping out the lifestyle of aboriginal people is about the worst thing they could do in their over-zealousness to protect wildlife. The best protection that wildlife has in the world are the aboriginal people who have lived, survived and depended on them for the thousands of years that we've existed. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Question 323-12(5): Purpose Of European Visit
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I have a question to direct to the Minister of Personnel. It deals with advertising for positions in the Northwest Territories. I, and many of my colleagues, believe we have a hire north policy and a buy north policy that wherever possible we'll search high and low for qualified people here within our boundaries before we go south. I would like to know what is the policy for advertising positions, not senior positions, but more junior level positions in the southern newspapers?

Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. We don't have a policy for southern advertisement in terms of junior positions. The only time the advertisement is placed in southern newspapers is when we have advertised more than once across the north, and we either didn't get a response or we didn't find a suitable person for the position. Thank you.

Return To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I understand that we do advertise in the north as well, but if we advertise on February 21 in the north, then February 26 in the southern papers and again on March 4, it's hardly time for any response to come from the north. I just wonder why there isn't a period of time that should be allowed, a reasonable time. I just wonder if there's a policy that we send out ads in the north and the southern papers simultaneously, and not give a chance to northerners to respond.

Supplementary To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel, Ms. Mike.

Further Return To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I try to monitor the southern advertisements very closely. If I do have a concern, I usually hold them until I get a satisfactory response from my DM of Personnel. In this incident about which Mr. Whitford is asking, it could be that the advertisements were placed both north and south. I will look into it because I don't have the details on that particular advertisement, and get back to the Member with the information in a few days. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Question 324-12(5): Policy For Advertising Of Middle Management Positions In Southern Newspapers
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. This has to do with a recent advertisement that I have noticed for oral traditional projects. I understand that there are tapes from previous projects which have been stored by the department

and kept in the museum. I support collecting the oral histories. I think that's one way of capturing the knowledge of our elders who we're losing nearly every day. Can the Minister tell me if his department has any plans for these tapes that he has stored? Are they available? Are they going to transcribe them and distribute them to the public? What are the plans of his department for this project? Thank you.

Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I'm not sure what the plans are, but I do know that previously the museum has made copies available to various communities so they could have access to the documentation and the tapes that have been provided. In some cases, in fact, the information has been translated into English so the stories or the information provided was made available to the communities, both in terms of the original tape or a copy of the original tape and the translation of those particular stories and information that was provided.

Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Is the Minister telling us that there is a catalogue listing of what is available, and that the public has access to these tapes? Is that what the Minister is telling us? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I can't say to the honourable Member that there is a cataloguing system, but I can tell you that there is information on the documents that have been provided to the museum. There is a listing. I would have to check to find out if all the documents have been catalogued. There is a big difference between cataloguing and listing the information. Cataloguing includes putting them in order, in terms of dates and all those kinds of things. I can't confirm that is the case. I'll check into the matter and provide the information to the honourable Member.

Further Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Speaker. There are people in the public who are very interested in the projects and would like to have access to these tapes. I would like to ask the Minister how can members of the public access these tapes and the transcripts? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment Programs, Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I guess one of the first ways is to communicate their request to the department or to me. That would be the first way of dealing with it. I will provide information to the honourable Member in detail about what the communities might do about applying for the information for use in the communities.

Further Return To Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Question 325-12(5): Plans For Oral History Tapes
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Whitford.

Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister responsible for the Department of Justice. I would like to ask the Minister what policies does his department have regarding the awarding of sole source contracts?

Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is the same as for all other departments. Sole source contracts are awarded where the nature of the requirement by government is considered to be of an urgent nature or where we see only one party that could possibly meet the demands we have, where there is only one party who is available and capable of performing the contract. Those are the two main requirements, that it is urgent and where we see only one party who can fulfil the responsibilities. Thank you.

Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Would the Minister be able to tell this House whether his department has any policies regarding the awarding of contracts to former employees of the department?

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, I cannot answer that question. I'm not aware at this time if employees are disqualified from contracts with the government as a result of leaving the employment of this government. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 696

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can the Minister tell me whether his department, when it awards sole source contracts on an urgent basis -- or whatever basis that meets the criteria -- will purchase and provide equipment to the contractor to provide that function?

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, if an individual with whom we want to contract is the only party that we think can fulfil the contract and we need them on an urgent basis, and the party we are contracting requires some equipment in order to fulfil that contract, we would consider providing equipment in order to have the work completed as we request it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice a final question. It is my understanding that a former employee of the Department of Justice who is now living out of the territories -- they were only here a short time and they are now living out of the territories in one of the provinces -- was recently awarded not one, but two sole source contracts, totalling some $50,000 and may have been provided with computer equipment by the department. Could the Minister provide this House with information regarding these contracts, including an explanation of why these contracts were not put out to public tender and whether there was any conflict of interest when the contracts were sole-sourced to that former employee?

Supplementary To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Speaker, we can provide the information. I feel that there is nothing wrong or improper about what has been done and we will provide the information as the Member requests, in order that we can all make that judgement together. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Question 326-12(5): Policy For Sole Source Contracts
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services. Madam Speaker, on December 13 and 14, 1993, I raised some concerns from my constituency about allocation of housing units and what seemed to be extraordinary repairs and maintenance on those units that appeared to be eligible for sale. The Minister asked for particulars and promised to investigate. I provided particulars in a Member's statement and also in a subsequent letter to the Minister, but I'm still waiting to hear the results of his inquiries, and so are my constituents. I would like to ask the Minister what is happening. Thank you.

Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just signed off a letter today to Mr. Patterson advising him of what is happening in Iqaluit. I requested the Minister of Finance to look into the issue and to do an independent audit and respond to the questions and issues you raised. I expect that answer back this month. Thank you.

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Madam Speaker. It must be ESP, Teflon Don is still delivering. I will eagerly await the response. Thank you.

---Laughter

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

There was no question there, Mr. Patterson.

---Laughter

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

There was no answer either.

---Laughter

Return To Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Question 327-12(5): Repair And Maintenance Of Housing Units For Sale
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Yesterday, we gave third reading, I believe, to a bill authorizing this government to borrow money. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, now that you have the bill through the House, where are we going to borrow the money from so that we can have some operating capital for the next while?

Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. In these kinds of situations, it is short-term borrowing that we exercise and that is either done with the Royal Bank or the CIBC. One of those institutions is where we'll go for the money. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

When you go anywhere to borrow money, you have to indicate that you're a good, safe bet. Each province that I've witnessed over the last several months has been having terrible problems getting the money they need because their rating isn't very good. I would like to ask the Minister how our government is rated in terms of its fiscal position.

Supplementary To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, we don't have a triple A rating or an AAB rating, or any of those kinds of ratings. We've never had the need to get that kind of rating. We enjoy, what I believe to be, triple A rating without being rated. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Further Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

I would like to ask the Minister, since there has been no decision as to where we're going to borrow the money -- it could be from one or two banks, or it could be more -- when this is done on what basis does the bank provide the money? They have to have some kind of criteria to determine whether this government should be loaned the money or not. I would like to ask the Minister, what is the criteria that's used to determine whether this government is a good risk to loan money to?

Supplementary To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Madam Speaker, the process is that I sign a bunch of notes, some for CIBC, some for Royal Bank, and I have those transported over to the Department of Finance. The money managers over there use them as they see fit and where they can get the best rate for short-term borrowing.

The criteria that the bank uses for us I am not aware of, Madam Speaker. I can only say to this House that we don't have to go to the bank on bended knee and pledge our lives and lay everything on the line. It's just an automatic thing that our money managers go to the bank and say here are some notes, we would like some money, and we get it. So, I think that's the procedure with short-term borrowing.

If we were to be looking at the purchase of some large asset, or if we were to be looking at some long-term borrowing, then I think we would be there having to pledge and have collateral, et cetera. But, for short-term borrowing I don't know what criteria the bank uses, but they are certainly not onerous, they consider us a good risk. We haven't had any problems in the past and I don't anticipate any this time, Madam Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Question 328-12(5): Source Of Money To Be Borrowed
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The guidelines for allocation of staff housing...Sorry, my question is directed to the Minister of Personnel. The guidelines for allocation of staff housing units to government employees based on the needs of these employees has caused some confusion in the implementation of the staff housing strategy. I would like to ask the Minister what the current criteria is for the allocation of staff housing units for staff in the communities. Thank you.

Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel, Ms. Mike.

Return To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The current policy for allocating staff housing has not changed. It is the size of the family and the needs, which are the criteria that have been practised in the past. Thank you.

Return To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ng.

Supplementary To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I take it, based on need is the bedroom size. If that's the case, there are some units that are larger than other units, and I would like to ask is the size of the unit a factor or is it strictly based on the number of bedrooms in each unit? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Personnel, Ms. Mike.

Supplementary To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

I don't have that information with me. I will take his question under notice.

Supplementary To Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Question 329-12(5): Guidelines For Allocation Of Staff Housing
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Public Works and Services. This is with regard to the school and the community office that was built in Trout Lake last year. I think the community has finally moved into it after the fiasco with delivery of the furniture and so forth. I would like to ask the Minister about how the whole project went, if he could provide the House with the status on that. Thank you.

Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 698

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 699

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Speaker. The project in Trout Lake was a good success, according to the people in Trout Lake and according to my department, as well as PCL, the project managers. We used a unique approach on this project. We used a project management approach where we worked very closely with the community to build it. We maximized the use of labour in the community, and we involved training as well. When I went in there last fall, the people of Trout Lake were very proud of the building. Rightfully, they should be. They did an excellent job and they brought the building in at a reasonable cost. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Return To Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Question 330-12(5): Status Of Trout Lake School Project
Item 5: Oral Questions

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Item 6, written questions. Item 7, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk. Item 8, replies to opening address. Item 9, petitions. Item 10, reports of standing and special committees. Item 11, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 12, tabling of documents. Mr. Clerk.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 699

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, I wish to table, in accordance with rule 52(10), Tabled Document 45-12(5) which is a response to Petition No. 4-12(5) which was presented by the Member for High Arctic and responded to by the Minister of Safety and Public Services.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Item 12, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Lewis.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 699

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thanks very much, Madam Speaker. Tabled Document 46-12(5) is a short paper on choosing a Premier through a general election.

Item 12: Tabling Of Documents
Item 12: Tabling Of Documents

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Item 12, tabling of documents. Item 13, notices of motion. Item 14, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 15, motions. Item 16, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I wish to seek unanimous consent to proceed with first reading of Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 16: First Reading Of Bills
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to proceed with Bill 15. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Members. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Bill 15 has had first reading.

---Carried

Item 16, first reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to proceed with first reading of Bill 17, Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95. Thank you.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to proceed with Bill 17. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable for Nunakput, that Bill 17, Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95, be read for the first time. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 16: First Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 16, first reading of bills. Item 17, second reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to move to second reading of Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 699

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to proceed with Bill 15. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Proceed, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

March 18th, 1994

Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable for Nunakput, that Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act, be read for the second time. Madam Speaker, this bill amends the Income Tax Act to increase the corporate income tax rate effective January 1, 1994, and provides for the rates to be prorated for corporations whose fiscal years span both calendar years of 1993 and 1994. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the principle of the bill.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Bill 15 has had second reading and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee.

---Carried

Item 17, second reading of bills. The honourable Member for Hay River, Mr. Pollard.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I seek consent to proceed with second reading of Bill 17, Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 15: An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

The honourable Member is seeking consent to proceed with Bill 17. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Pollard, proceed.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Madam Speaker, and Members. Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 17, Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95, be read for the second time. Madam Speaker, this bill authorizes the Commissioner, or a Minister acting on behalf of the Commissioner, to make loans during the 1994-95 fiscal year to municipalities and boards of education. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. To the principle of the bill.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

An Hon. Member

Question.

Bill 17: Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95
Item 17: Second Reading Of Bills

Page 700

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Bill 17 has had second reading and accordingly the bill stands referred to a committee.

---Carried

Item 17, second reading of bills. Item 18, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(5), Report of the Review of the 1994-95 Main Estimates; Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business; Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral Strategy; Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning Strategy; Tabled Document, 34-12(5), Tradition and Change, A Strategy for Renewable Resource Development in the NWT, February 1994; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; and, Bill 17, Loan Authorization Act, 1994-95 -- I apologize, not bills 15 and 17 -- with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee continue on with consideration of Bill 1 and Committee Report 2-12(5) and consideration of the Department of Justice.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Kakfwi is going to be away effective Monday afternoon at 5:30. So if we do get through Justice today, may I suggest we go to another department, other than Renewable Resources, as we don't want to get ourselves caught again with a Minister leaving in the middle of his budget. Thank you.

---Applause

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that we...

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

(Microphones turned off)

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Order, please. We will do the Department of Justice. When we conclude, Mr. Pollard, the Government House Leader, is suggesting we go to another department. What department do we want to do if we conclude Justice? Mr. Dent.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I suggest that it be Public Works and Services.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree that if we conclude Justice today, we go on to Public Works and Services?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will take a 15 minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Department Of Justice

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Yesterday when we concluded for the day, we were discussing the Department of Justice. The Minister already introduced his witnesses yesterday, I wonder if he has to do that again? Yes, please, for the record, Mr. Kakfwi.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Same as yesterday. On my left, the acting deputy minister of Justice, Mr. Graeme Garson, and on my right the director of finance and administration for the Department of Justice, Ms. Louise Dundas-Matthews.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. It is comforting to know that you are still the Minister with the same staff today. We are on general comments. Page 07-9. Mr. Patterson.

General Comments

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to have a chance to make some general comments about the Department of Justice. I have one or two concerns, but I like to think I'm always one to give credit where it's due, so I'll start out with a short and not exhaustive list of all the positive things that have been accomplished by this department under Mr. Kakfwi's leadership, although perhaps some previous Justice Ministers get some credit, as he very kindly said yesterday.

First of all, I would like to say that there couldn't have been a better interim appointment of a deputy minister than Mr. Garson.

---Applause

With his credentials in Canada and his impressive past experience, I'm only sorry to hear that he wishes the appointment to be interim. I respect him for that but I've had some occasion to work with him in this capacity and I think he's a very good interim arrangement, let me put it that way.

I would also like to say, Mr. Chairman, that there seems to be a lot of good things happening with this department. I'm impressed -- and we've discussed this at length -- with Mr. Kakfwi's initiatives on family violence and zero tolerance of violence. I think he's brought this issue to the fore and it is having results and will have results. I think it's a very appropriate stance for the Minister of Justice to take.

I'm also pleased that, finally, there is real work under way in family law reform and we're starting to see some legislation emerging now, and hopefully more this fall. I want to mention that I have had an opportunity to get briefed on what is planned for the approach to the long-standing issue of the need to recognize custom adoptions. While I don't want to tread on the mandate of the Standing Committee on Legislation, I do want to say at this point that everything I know about this legislation leads me to believe it is practical, workable and it respects community custom.

I think the department has done good work in putting this long-awaited proposal forward. I know it will get careful consideration by the standing committee, but I personally hope it can soon become law. This is a long-standing issue that is of concern everywhere in the territories and I think the department has proposed a practical way of dealing with the backlog and fixing up this problem in the future, in a way that respects traditional law but also allows the custom to be given the appropriate recognition by bureaus of statistics, people issuing birth certificates and the like. This is good work and I hope it can lead to early passage of the legislation.

I also want to say that I think very good things are happening with justices of the peace in the Northwest Territories. The JP task force recommendations are, I think, almost completely implemented. I think Mr. Stevens is doing a commendable job of recruiting, training and inspiring JPs throughout the Northwest Territories. There is a much better success rate of attracting aboriginal and women JPs. In my own riding, there has been a remarkable increase in the number of JPs, and the new JPs are of a high calibre and they are enthusiastic. I talked to them and they are inspired by the training sessions, and they are feeling very proud of what they are doing.

This is very important because we all know that the JPs are the soldiers in the field who can do a great deal of important, community-sensitive summary conviction work, if they're given the support. I think that support is now being given. I'm pleased to learn that their remuneration will be improved and I commend the Minister and the department for that.

I also want to say that I believe a good number of very capable people have been attracted to community justice positions throughout the regions. I'm pleased that people like Nick Sibbeston, with all his experience and concern about justice are now working for the department and looking at innovative approaches. I think that's happening in virtually all regions of the territories. They are creating a sense of optimism and excitement about the potential for new approaches.

I'm also pleased that Nora Sanders is back with the department. I think she brings a lot of skills and openness to new approaches in that area. I congratulate the Minister for luring her back, whatever was taken to do that, because it is Ontario's loss and our gain, I believe.

Without belabouring it, I would also like to say that there are good things happening with community justice in my constituency. I'm very pleased that the on the land program for young offenders at Mingotuq is up and running. I believe it is working well. There is good communication between the camp operators and the officials in the department. They are dealing with the inevitable issues that come up when new approaches are being taken, but I think they are being dealt with openly. I'm very optimistic that this is going to prove to be a good model for other regions in the territories.

My critical comments, Mr. Chairman, relate to the needs of youth. I have some concern that we should be doing more to keep our young people out of jail. I know the Minister agrees with that, but I'm not sure the department has yet realigned its resources -- and maybe I shouldn't be impatient -- to really support the kind of preventive programs that must be in place in all parts of the territories, if we are to avoid the expensive and sometimes lifelong institutional approaches to youth. Especially for those first offenders, I think more must be done to keep them from following a lifelong pattern. Other Members have spoken about that.

One concern I have is, and I would like to ask the Minister about this, I understand that in the reorganized department, young offenders' programs are now under the umbrella of the corrections division of the department. My concern is, Mr. Chairman, that community justice workers are inspiring communities to look at alternative approaches to the ways we have been dealing with youth and other people in the criminal justice system. Often communities are saying we are somewhat apprehensive about dealing with adult offenders and dealing with the heavier crimes, but if we know anything at all, we know how to look after our young people. Let us have some responsibility in this area. Let us act as an alternative to the judicial system. We can at least handle our young people. If think if communities are encouraged to take responsibility for their young people, they may realize they can probably do a darn good job with most adult offenders as well, but there has to be encouragement there.

I think that if young offenders' programs are all being run out of the corrections division of the department, there is one good aspect to that and that is there is a lot of money in that area...a staggering amount of money. So if this responsibility for young offenders' programs in corrections has a good aspect, it is that maybe we can squeeze some of that huge corrections budget and divert it into keeping young offenders out of those expensive young offenders' institutions. That is what has actually been done in Iqaluit, with the Minister's support. If it means we can get money out of the system for alternative approaches, young offenders' camps, peer mediation, counselling, alterative measures programs, et cetera, then this is good.

However, Mr. Chairman, with the greatest of respect to the people who have a tough job dealing with increasingly violent people in the corrections system, I have a concern that there still remains a bit of a bias in favour of institutions and institutional approaches within the corrections division. There is a tendency with people who are dealing with the sometimes very demanding problems of hardened criminals, to not really appreciate that most of the young people who get into trouble for the first time are exploring boundaries just as all of us did when we were young. The only problem is that now in the 1990s, even in the Northwest Territories, the exploration of boundaries -- and sometimes it is a sense of rebellion or independence -- gets them involved with problems that we never dreamed of when we were kids such as prostitution, drugs, AIDS, et cetera. These things were not present a few decades ago. So I have a concern that creative ideas are produced by the community justice workers in the field, then if the solutions proposed have to deal with youth, they are then turned over to a division of the department which is in the business of looking after warehoused people in correctional facilities. I am just concerned that this may not be the best place to have dynamic and innovative alterative solutions supported.

I want to ask the Minister if my description of the organizational arrangements are correct. Also, I would like to ask what programs are in place to support youth justice committees, alternative measures for young offenders and innovative approaches throughout the territories. I was curious to learn, because I live in Yellowknife, that there is not a functioning youth justice committee in this city, even though we all know that notwithstanding all the good things that are happening here, the high level of voluntarism, the great sporting activities, the good education system, there are a significant number of kids, even in this capital city, who have been written off by parents and schools and are living on the streets. There is quite a volume of youth court activities here and serious street problems, yet this city doesn't even have a youth justice committee, for some reason. I would like to know how that could be and how active youth justice committees are throughout the Northwest Territories. If they are not active, does the department have a strategy to encourage those committees to get in place?

The Young Offenders Act does provide that there is a whole number of alternative measures that can be put in place to help young offenders avoid a pattern that can arise when they get into institutions. That is my general concern, Mr. Chairman. It may be more appropriate to deal with it as we go line by line, but I want to say I am curious about where the responsibility for young offenders lies in the department and whether it is getting the support I am sure the Minister would want our young people to get from his department to keep them out of jail. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In response to the last question about the Yellowknife youth justice committee, a committee had existed for some time and recently has been, because of resignations and a change in the support to that committee by the government, reverted to a volunteer basis. There was a perceived conflict of interest as well because of some of the staff who were involved in the previous committee. That has been carried away. The local justice specialist is working with this volunteer group to get them back on track and make sure they have the administrative support to do the work they have set out to do. There is a youth justice committee operating on a volunteer basis in Yellowknife at this time.

The way that the department organizes their approach for the youth is corrections still has legal obligations to take care of young offenders by legislation. The Member raises a good point, with the institution being the way it is, are corrections staff sufficiently flexible in their thinking to be innovative and meet the perceived needs of communities that start to articulate them? I think it's a good question. The staff that I work with believe we have the kind of capabilities to be adaptable. I would go with that judgement.

There are two different roles here. The support we give to community justice at the local level is done primarily through community justice specialists and these are the people who help communities put together ideas and approaches for meeting the needs of young and adult offenders. Once there is some sort of agreement made or proposal made by the community, then it is the corrections people who try to set it up to make it operational. Once it is operational, it is corrections that handles it. The community justice side, as such, does not have the capacity to handle the operational side of these agreements as we hope they materialize.

In the budget, we have about $900,000 or so set aside for committee work, both committees dealing with youth and adult offenders and justice committees. There is money available for projects that are initiated as a result of these committees. I'm not certain if I missed anything the Member raised. I took particular note of his concern about whether corrections, as it is or has been, is historically flexible enough as an institution to loosen up and try to be flexible in the mandates they meet

through legislation. I think it is a good assertion to make and for us to try to answer with certainty. Mahsi.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On my list, I have Mr. Zoe. Mr. Zoe.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I want to comment about corrections, community justice and law enforcement. Mr. Chairman, I agree with the initiative the Department of Justice

is undertaking with regard to communities, particularly community justice. But I have a concern about this area. I agree with the initiative. I think it's a good thing and that we're moving in the right direction. My concern is about how this information gets out to the communities and various organizations that would be interested in these types of initiatives.

I say that because, as recently as yesterday, I was in Rae visiting my constituency and I had an opportunity to talk with the municipal administrator. I talked about the initiatives of the department with regard to community justice and law enforcement. He expressed interest, particularly with the law enforcement part of it. When I started to talk about the various initiatives of our government, I notice that it appears that the information about these initiatives is not going out to the appropriate organizations or to the communities.

I'm having problems because once I mentioned the types of initiatives your department is undertaking, there was interest expressed. While I was there, I told them to get in touch with the appropriate people, particularly the community justice person we have out in my area, but they weren't aware of the initiatives. I want to ask the Minister how the department conveys all these new initiatives to the communities and the various organizations within the community, for instance friendship centres, bands, hamlets or interest groups. I have that particular concern.

With regard to law enforcement, Mr. Chairman, I noticed the Minister indicated in his opening remarks that the First Nation's community policing initiative is under way in Good Hope and Lake Harbour, I believe it was. There are going to be pilot projects. I know they initiated these pilot projects and they want to wait until they evaluate them and so forth so that later on down the road, if they're successful, they can use them as models for other communities. But, in the interim, what can the other communities that are waiting do in order to enhance their law enforcement at the community level?

Again, I would like to make reference to the municipality of Rae-Edzo, that is really interested in law enforcement. They are having problems with their by-law enforcement component and the general policing of the community. They have a great interest. I agree with the initiatives they are undertaking. But on a temporary basis, what can the community do to achieve what they want to do at the community level?

Those are my two general questions I would like the Minister to respond to, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 703

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Justice.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand the Member is saying that the information he is aware of is not known in Edzo and Rae. It is the responsibility of the community justice specialist to convey this to the communities. I don't know if there have been any attempts made to meet and inform members of Rae-Edzo about them but, certainly, we will make sure that is done within the next week or two. Because it is conveniently close, we could perhaps look at having a meeting at a political level, if the Member wants to look at that, to give it the kind of attention it deserves.

The two pilot projects that we talked about are actually just pilot projects. There is another initiative that the federal government has that we are trying to negotiate its application to the north. That is on what they call community policing. It is with regard to the federal government trying to encourage aboriginal communities to take over more control over their own policing. Unfortunately, it is another policy that is oriented towards a southern context. We have been meeting and negotiating with them so we can come to a suitable arrangement to have it apply in the Northwest Territories. If I didn't mentioned it in my remarks, it is intended to focus on groups like the Dogrib Tribal Council or the individual Dogrib communities to either manage their own police contracts or work out some arrangement that could complete the acceptance of the status quo. I hope we can come to some sort of an agreement very soon with the federal government so we can provide this opportunity which I think is the kind of thing the Member is looking for. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Zoe.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I realize what the Minister is saying but, in the interim, what could the community do to try to achieve their goals and objectives they set for themselves, particularly for law enforcement in their community? They are running into some problems, for instance, law enforcement was high on the agenda for the community of Rae-Edzo. It appears that this law enforcement component was a high priority for the community and they are pursuing this. I understand there is a letter coming to me with regard to this. I know what the department is doing but, in the interim, I don't think the community can do too much, even though they want to. Is there any other way the department could assist the community perhaps in conjunction with Municipal and Community Affairs or any other department that deals with law enforcement? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the area of policing, we already have -- I think Edzo is one of them -- by-law officers who are capable of carrying out certain areas of policing. By and large, it is still the RCMP who have overall responsibility for the Criminal Code. Any discussions about policing would be quite extensive and complicated. Again, there are discussions with the federal government to try to find some way to get the federal government and ourselves to support an approach that would see communities taking over more responsibility for policing, but the process would take some time. I am not certain how the community may want to approach it, except to say that if the Member's community is interested in having meetings about this so that, at least at a political level, we can make agreements to have some discussions on the issue with a commitment to try to address it in some substantive way, I would be very happy to do that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for North Slave.

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Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, that is the reason I raised the question of information. Once the initiatives being undertaken

by the department are conveyed at the community level, there will be a lot of interest expressed. One is the law enforcement component of it as well as community justice. I would certainly encourage the Minister and his department to start giving the community the details of these initiatives and start the dialogue with the community. It will take time, as the Minister indicated, if anything is going to come out of it. Just from my brief discussions with the senior administrative officer, those were the two areas they were interested in. I suggested that maybe he should contact the community justice specialist because that is the person who is supposed to be providing the information to the various groups in the community. I indicated to the SAO that the hamlet council members would be extremely interested, once they hear all the details. I didn't have the details when I talked to him. I suggested to the SAO that it could be a joint venture between the band and the hamlet if they wanted a briefing from this specialist so they don't have to waste time. I know it will spark interest from the community and that is why I suggested that to them yesterday.

I hope that with this type of dialogue, the community can start trying to develop something for themselves. Currently, that is not happening in my riding. I haven't heard that the community justice specialist has been giving the three outlying communities in my riding any information pertaining to the initiatives of the department. My concern is that the information is not flowing to the appropriate people at the community level. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Minister Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. There is a lot of information that communities are subjected to. I go on the assumption that the community justice specialists that we have are doing their work. Perhaps there is some explanation for this. We will make a commitment to make sure that people are informed and there are appropriate meetings that take place. It is my hope that some of the communities will make policing a high priority. Throughout the north we have extensive work being done on claims negotiations and implementation. Many organizations and leaders are finding that they have to realign their priorities. It is my view that there would still be communities that would make this work a priority. If Rae-Edzo is one of them, then I would be more than happy to try to work with them. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Next on my list, I have Mr. Pudlat.

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Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) I will be speaking in my own language, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

---Laughter

Yesterday during question period, I asked about firearms issues and the pending mandatory course. I want to talk a little about that again because I seemed to understand yesterday that the instructions for mandatory courses will not be made up in the aboriginal languages. That was the understanding I had yesterday, Mr. Chairman.

There are many official aboriginal languages and there is also the Federal Official Languages Act. In the territories, we have eight official aboriginal languages, and I wanted to talk a little bit more about that. I want to remind the Minister about our Official Languages Act. I understand he will be meeting fairly soon again with the Minister to talk about this issue. I have a concern that the teaching materials will not be provided in the aboriginal languages and this could pose an enormous problem, especially in light of the fact that the majority of the people up here are unilingual.

Whenever they propose national laws, it should be remembered that funding should also be considered to ensure that enforcement of these laws is being provided in languages that are understood up here. This firearms legislation will surely pose a problem. This is not going to be a simple task, as we are all aware, especially if they start implementing the training courses. Firearms safety has been an issue for a long time but this is something I'm very concerned about. People will continue to hunt and people will continue to be concerned about safety with rifles.

I don't believe there is going to be funding set aside to provide these courses in the aboriginal languages, even if it is a national law and it is mandatory. I don't think the course is going to be translated into Inuktitut. This is more a comment than a question. As I understand it, the Minister will be having meetings again concerning this issue in the near future. I hope he will reiterate this problem and the difficulties that are encountered, not just in enforcing this new law, but also whenever they make new mandatory legislation it must be remembered that official languages are important to us up here. I wanted the Minister to know about my concerns regarding the training courses, which possibly might not be provided in the aboriginal languages.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. That was more or less a point the honourable Member wished to make. Of course, if the honourable Minister wants to respond, it is his discretion.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. The comments that Members like Mr. Pudlat are making will be shared with the federal Minister next week. We'll be taking clips from the Hansard to demonstrate to him the extent to which this particular issue is causing concern. There is absolutely no doubt that the hunters and trappers, for instance in my constituency, who are unilingual are being discriminated against. Because they are unilingual, they will not be able to acquire a firearms acquisition certificate. They don't qualify to take this course at this time. There is no initiative right now to translate this course into Inuktitut or any other aboriginal language, or to train any instructors to teach this course in an aboriginal language.

The very people who need firearms the most, in many cases are the ones who are being discriminated against the most, inadvertently as a result of the nature of the course. This will be shared with the federal Minister next week. We should point out as well, I think, that all Members know about the many things that northern hunters and trappers have to contend with in harvesting and in making use of their firearms. The land we have to travel on is often very hazardous and often equipment is lost on ice floes or by breaking through ice, by boats overturning and often things like ski-doos, outboard motors, camping equipment and hunting gear, including entire sets of rifles, are lost.

In cases like this, people who depend on rifles on a daily basis will not be able to acquire firearms and would have to find some other way to get access to firearms, which brings up the whole issue of illegal trade and sale of firearms. They can borrow, but that is difficult for people to do since people usually have their own equipment and it is not a common practice any more than borrowing each other's socks.

---Laughter

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. I have Mr. Lewis and Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Lewis.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was very pleased, Mr. Chairman, to hear from Mr. Kakfwi last night when he indicated that there certainly has to be an emphasis on the needs of young people. I don't need to go into all the reasons for that because they have been very well stated. It is largely to do with the speed of change and the speed with which things are happening around us that put young people at tremendous risk. All of us have had the pleasure of raising children and it is becoming more and more difficult every day. You can see the tremendous risks that young people are facing in a rapidly-changing society.

We only have to consider this city, which I remember as being a very quiet place where nothing much ever happened. Suddenly, it has become a city and, although it's not very big -- there are only about 16,000 people -- it has the same range of problems that you would find in Winnipeg, for example, which has over half a million people. There is every conceivable crime reported in the press in this city. The idea of people going around with guns and holding up convenience stores was unheard of. Even when I came to Yellowknife and it wasn't that long ago, in 1974, from the east, you never bothered to lock your doors. You just didn't worry about such things. You had safe neighbourhoods and all of that has changed. I am afraid that it has put tremendous pressure on the problems of law enforcement and making sure that the justice system works in a proper fashion.

I know that over the years we have had delegations of young people who complain that it is very difficult to lead the kind of life that their parents would like to see them lead in a place like Yellowknife simply because of the things they see going on around them. They have very few alternatives unless they are inventive enough to come up with some ideas of their own as to how they could be spending their time. As a result, people spend their time in arcades or hang around the bars because there are things that drag them away from the things that parents would prefer to see them do. I know that many of the people who visit on school trips from the south, young people from places not that different from Yellowknife in size in southern Canada, are absolutely astounded to see the way of life that some of our young people lead here. It seems to be like one long party for some people. I have heard that comment several times.

We have heard references to youth gangs that was unknown ten years ago, the idea of young people going around just simply looking for trouble, yet that is happening now. I note there an increasing number of young people who can no longer be handled by the school system so they are looking for alternative methods and schools. Parents have even given up completely and decide to have their children taught at home because that is the only way they can keep them at their studies. I could go on at length. I have raised a family of my own over the last 30 years in the Northwest Territories. I think that it is more luck than anything else when you see all the things that go on around you that they have been able to come through unscathed for the most part.

There is a particular problem for young boys, I find. Young women can exchange in interesting, adventurous activity without putting themselves in conflict with the law. But young men, for some reason, always seem to choose those things which involve risk which could put them in very real conflict with the law. This natural inclination of young boys to look for adventure, very often puts them in a position where they bring tremendous grief to their parents. Many of my personal friends have gone through this and it is so common now that it is part of the life we live everyday and we try to find ways of coping with it.

I have one question for the Minister. I am not so sure that setting up new structures all the time is always the answer. I know, until two or three years ago, we had a committee called the youth justice committee, in Yellowknife. To be honest, I was never quite sure exactly what the responsibilities or functions of a youth justice committee really was. I would like to get some indication from the Minister, some insight into the worth and value of such a committee. I know that when it existed, it was active and now that it is no longer there, people see that there is a void. There is something that used to exist that seemed to serve a very useful function. It would be useful for us to have a good understanding of what a youth justice committee does. Now that we don't have one in this city, with all the things that are going on around us many parents say there is a void and something needs to be done to resurrect it. That was my only question.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

The work that youth justice committees do, community justice committees also, is it is recognizing that there are individuals in a community who want to try to divert young people before the formal justice system gets their...

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An Hon. Member

(Microphone turned off)

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Pudluk. For the record, there is a point of order raised by Mr. Pudluk.

Point Of Order

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Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a very interesting department and I think we should at least have a quorum here. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pudluk. A lack of a quorum has been brought to my attention. I shall sound the bells and ask people to return. Thank you. We now have a quorum. My apologies, Mr. Minister, you can continue where you left off.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. In communities wanting to take some responsibility for adult or young

offenders and try to give some support to these people and to try to intervene at an early stage, these committees are initially set up on a volunteer basis. We recognize that, in many cases, in all communities, there is always a group of people who want to volunteer to do something. After some time and commitment to the job, we come in to provide some money to help them. These groups provide a mechanism for the community to make a statement to the courts about these offenders.

For instance, after charges are laid, before a sentencing, a committee could go to the courts and make a presentation about the individuals involved and some overtures about how they feel the court should deal with the offenders. In some cases, they ask to take responsibility for these offenders. In other cases, they intervene even before charges are laid and try to come up with some acceptable arrangement where they would take responsibility. Sometimes charges are laid and then stayed depending on the arrangements made with the RCMP and the courts.

There is intervention sometimes so that in sentencing the courts take that into account. For instance, a justice committee might offer to take custody of a young or adult offender. So, instead of being sent to the Yellowknife Correctional Centre, the offender might be placed in the custody of a youth justice committee, a community justice committee, the chief and council, or an Inuit community that is willing to accept them, and where it is acceptable to everybody involved. That is the way, in very general terms, these committees work.

I don't know if that is sufficient for the Member but, in general terms, that is how these committees operate. Mahsi.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that description of all the responsibilities that could be undertaken by a youth justice committee. It seems to me to be a very worthwhile form of intervention on behalf of young people. What is not clear to me, though is, given the size of the population and the size of the problem we're trying to deal with here, with a population of 16,000 -- and I haven't calculated the number of young people that are potentially at risk -- and with a huge volunteer sector in the community that is actively engaged in all kinds of support for different organizations throughout the city, is there any kind of system at all so that if there was a group that was committed, they could count on some support from government?

I know this is always a problem. Every time you try to solve something, it is always the government that has to come through to provide the funds and so on, even though it's a community initiative to help their own kids. But, it is a reality that people are stretched. Most of the people I know are completely stretched in terms of the amount of time they have, because of the huge demands made on them by the different agencies within the community that don't get support from government and depend upon voluntary help. There must be some system with which you can decide on how you can allocate the very limited resources.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I think the Member is asking a question that is probably at the forefront of many people's minds, what can we do when we're so busy and what kind of support can the government give in that context? The community justice task can provide money for justice committees to operate. We can provide a small honorarium and a small operating budget. If there are specific community justice initiatives being suggested by groups within the city of Yellowknife, we will sit down and try to work out an arrangement for everyone.

The other question the Member raised is an important one. We are so busy, what can we do? In many of our communities, that is the question that many, many people ask. They have a job during the daytime, and they help implement claim settlements in the evenings and during the weekends. They have so many things going on that they wonder what they can do to intervene in the troubled lives of their teenagers or their relatives. It is a tough question. I would say that is the kind of question that youth justice committees and justice committees grapple with.

Are there suggestions they can make to the city of Yellowknife so they can be a positive intervener in the work that needs to be done to reach out to young people who are on the brink of getting into a life of crime and for young offenders who have already committed offences? Is there something civic leaders can do to bring them back to reality and let them know people care, that we want to help, that there are no judgement calls being made on them, and that there is a need to recognize that people deserve respect?

There are aboriginal organizations in the city and there is the business community, and I think they would be great elements to bring into the justice committee work starting up in the city. If the committees know city council would be happy to help with interventions and that the business community would be glad to work hand-in-hand with young offenders who are busting into their businesses and making off with some of their goodies, that would be good. There may be some positive elements in the thinking the Member is suggesting. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair recognizes Mr. Arvaluk and then Mr. Allooloo.

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James Arvaluk Aivilik

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have many questions, but I have a comment I would like to make to the Minister. On page 07-9, under law enforcement, I recognize that the Minister is doing some work on this in the communities. There are police being trained from my community here in Yellowknife under this, and we are involved in community justice and corrections too. I would like to thank the Minister for being able to work with him with regard to these areas. I would like the work to continue in my community.

When the Special Committee on Health and Social Services was in the eastern Arctic, in the Keewatin region, during a public hearing in Repulse Bay they heard that when young people have to wait a long time to be heard in court, they end up committing suicide because they get tired of waiting and are under a lot of stress. I would like the definitive objectives under law enforcement and community justice to continue in my community so that the people who are waiting to be tried and who are under a lot of stress will not commit suicide in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arvaluk. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

In one of the comments raised yesterday, Mr. Pudlat also pointed to the great length of time that people who are charged and who are being brought before the courts have to wait. We didn't specifically discuss, yesterday, the effect that has on young offenders. In many cases, when we talk about young offenders, these are people between 12 and 18. We're primarily looking at young men who are going through tremendous change, physically and emotionally, and people who often feel that nobody really understands them. The stress of having to wait for decisions to be made about their life and the way they seem to be inadvertently forgotten in the ongoing machinery of justice, is probably different for adult offenders as opposed to the youth. I think it's something for us, in the Department of Justice, to look at to see if there isn't something that could be done in recognition of that difference. So that's an excellent comment to bring up.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I'm sorry, you wanted to say something again?

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, I intended to mention it in the beginning today. I received a letter today from the Alberta correction services division, from Mr. Hank O'Handley, the assistant deputy minister of the Government of Alberta. It is addressed to Ms. Nora Sanders, the assistant deputy minister of the Solicitor General Branch, Department of Justice, Government of the Northwest Territories. "Dear Ms Sanders: With regard to the external review of the young offender program, this should serve to advise that my report will not likely be completed in time for presentation during the winter session of the Legislative Assembly, by your Minister. In this regard, I understand the report must be translated into Inuktitut which will take some time. As well, we need to clarify some of our findings before our final submission is made. I trust this will not create difficulty for the department." This is signed, Mr. Hank O'Handley, the assistant deputy minister of the correction services division.

I just share that because there was a commitment and demand by this legislature to provide this during this session. I had followed the suggestion of the Member for Thebacha, in asking for the services of Mr. O'Handley, knowing that his schedule was very hectic, at best, at that time we sought him. But, he had agreed to do it. He is basically saying that his report may not be ready, so I would like to serve notice to Members. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair now recognizes Mr. Allooloo.

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to make general comments. I think the department has made great strides in the last few years toward allowing the communities to have more control over the justice system. That includes local JPs and also justice committees in the communities.

One of the things that the department has inherited through the amalgamation process was the correctional centres from Social Services. My colleague for Iqaluit mentioned today that there have been at least two examples in the Baffin region where a local business was able to take over looking after the young offenders at the open custody type situations. When it was in Social Services it was working very well, and it is still working very well, I believe, to this point. Since the department has taken it over, I understand they are trying to change the policy to suit the department's requirement for those companies that take in young offenders in open custody situations, to be more restrictive to those companies. I am told that the proposal that was put forward by the department is so restrictive that a company in my constituency, if that were to occur, would not be able to meet those conditions which are too strict for that company to comply with. I have raised this concern with the Minister, by letter, and he has told me that this was only a proposal, and that they are soliciting input from those companies and other people.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to know how far the department has gone in terms of developing that policy, whether there has been significant change since that proposal was put forward. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Amittuq. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I don't have the details here, so I will just make note of the Member's question and perhaps before the day is over get back to him with a response in the course of general comments.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Amittuq.

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would appreciate if, in looking at the new policy, you could address those small companies that look after very few young offenders. The one I am talking about normally looks after, I believe, up to four individuals who are young offenders in the open custody situation.

The one in my constituency has been working very well. None of the people who went through that facility have come back through the system because that family is able to take them out on the land and teach them land skills, that sort of thing, and encourage them to live with the community people as much as possible. Also, the out on the land skills.

I would encourage the Minister to, as much as possible, allow those types of institutions which are working, to continue and not to restrict them so they are not able to function. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Allooloo. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. There is certain legislation that we have to follow. It then becomes a judgement call of how flexible we could be, and how adaptable we could be in view of the legislation. In view of that, I raise to the Member's attention that there has been a public review of my designation of certain facilities as triple designated facilities. There is a dispute right now about whether that was a proper way to act and whether it contravened something that is my responsibility. There is always a danger that someone will challenge the way we operate, whether we are complying with mandates and legislation which we are legally obliged to comply with. I would certainly like to be the great innovator and bend the rules as much as I can.

There is an area where you really wonder whether you are acting in disregard of the law and where you are putting safety of inmates, young offenders and staff at risk. Those are the kind of things that come out of corrections. There is probably a conservative element attached to that sort of thinking, but there is an obligation for us to consider them. When we put young offenders in these facilities, we have to have some sort of understanding with the people providing the service so we know what these people are doing. We try to negotiate an understanding so everyone knows what is going on. It is a bit troublesome in that there is a sincere effort being made to make sure there is some continuity and support. Primarily, whether it is translated that way or not, we are trying to provide some support to the contractors.

For instance, I know that in some cases the contractors take certain young offenders and in a matter of days call back and say this one shouldn't be here. That is a judgement call of the contractor. Sometimes it is different. They need to work with the department to make sure everything goes well and there is some support. There is a commitment, at least on my part, and we will go as fast and as far as we can go to make sure we don't strangle the operations of the community-based operations because of our requirements, laws, regulations and the need for corrections staff to feel in control of what is going on.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Amittuq.

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Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister's response to continue to help the contractors, who are doing valuable work and working towards rehabilitating those young offenders back to their communities and enable them to live in their own communities. I am told that in schedule A...This facility is run by a family, a husband and wife, and they have to produce nutritional meal that the kids will eat. He was telling me he doesn't know the nutritional value of seal and he didn't know the value of caribou, shrimp, fish or polar bear. I would be required to give the department the nutritional value of the food I feed the kids ahead of time. That would require me to deal with paperwork rather than dealing with the young people who are in trouble. His concern was that he would not be able to take them out again. He would be forced to stay in town so that he could satisfy the department. That is my concern. I hope the department would look at their proposal since the act has not been changed, since the department has taken over that responsibility from Social Services. The communication between Social Services and the contractor was very good, I hope that will continue. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Amittuq. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The working relationship with the contractors, for instance in the Baffin, there have been some concerns expressed on the type of requirements we think we need and the way we want to establish a relationship with the contractors. We need more discussion just to keep it clear and to work out some arrangements. There is no doubt that that is what we are required to do. As far as I am concerned, the intent is to take a start at the approach, historically, that corrections has taken to inmates. The communities are really the front line people who are going to soften them up. I am giving moral support to both sides, cheering them on to make sure when the dust clears, corrections is still there and it is seen as a great component of change in the way it delivers its service and gives support to community initiatives. The communities are the champions of bringing change to this institution. It is going to take some hard knocks and we are not going to do it at this level. The people who are going to translate our policies and make them apply on a daily basis are communities and the staff who work with them at the community level. It is part of the growing pains we have to accept. I certainly let everyone know in the department, the community justice specialists and the communities. Where I come from, the communities have to be the ones who demand the change and bring about the change. They are going to get beat up once in a while on some of it -- that is not a good term. I should say there will be some differences in the course of bringing about change. That is part of the homework the community has to do. It is going to be good for everyone involved.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Antoine, Member for Nahendeh.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, would like to say a few things on the Department of Justice. Overall, the department has done quite a good job. I will take this opportunity to mention a few things that I see that need improvement.

First of all, I have some concerns with the legal aid division. Some of my constituents who use that service quite often told me that there are some lawyers hired through the system who -- and I don't know how much money they get paid to do this work -- don't spend very much time with their clients. In a number of cases, they just spend a few minutes before their court time. In a lot of cases, they have been instructed by their lawyers to plead guilty and throw themselves at the mercy of the courts. To me, that is not justice. The department should look at this because it has been mentioned to me quite a number of times. The people who use the legal aid system now feel that is the way justice is served, and I don't believe that is the way justice should be served. I think that lawyers should spend more time with their clients and not tell them to plead guilty for expediency's sake, as it seems to be done. If the department could look into this matter, it would be very appreciated. I don't think I'm the only MLA who has this concern. I've talked to a number of other Members of this House who know this is going on. The sooner this is taken care of, the better.

Another area I have comments on is policing. First of all, speaking specifically for my constituency, the highway is going to be officially opened for summer traffic to Wrigley in June 1994. There was a person stationed there, but he has been pulled back into Simpson. He visits quite often, but once that highway opens, the people of the community are concerned that if there are no police there, more problems might arise. There is a request for a police officer to be stationed in the community of Wrigley prior to the highway being opened in June 1994.

Another community of mine is Liard. At the present time, there are two police officers. There were three at one point in time but one officer was pulled out a couple of years ago. The community has requested that an additional member be stationed there. The reason for that is Liard is one of the entry points by highway into the NWT and there needs to be additional patrols on the highway because of the border with BC, especially when the Minister of Finance is talking about increasing the price of cigarettes. He is going to be increasing the duties of the RCMP in patrolling our borders so that no illegal cigarettes enter. There is definitely a need for additional officers at all the border points.

There is a new initiative that this department has taken that I fully support, that is the community policing initiative where there are members of the communities of Fort Good Hope and Cape Dorset who have been selected to have special training to assist the RCMP work in those areas. It is a pilot project. However, I'm kind of disappointed because I was under the impression that other RCMP members were notified in other communities about the possible pilot projects. But, after nosing around and asking officers who I know in my constituency, none were aware that this program was going to take place. I'm disappointed that only the Minister's community has a pilot project. I think other communities could have been looked at as well.

I totally support the community justice initiative that is going on right now. I think it is a unique direction that this department and government is going. It is a bold move to try to get communities involved. Unfortunately, this should have happened from day one, from first contact. That didn't happen, but we should try to make the best of this program.

In the corrections area, we are spending a lot of government money to take care of people in jail. There is a lot of money going to people who take care of the inmates. I just want to say that we've been asking -- and I think I've mentioned this in the House a number of times -- for on the land programs in the west for a long time. In the Baffin they have an on the land program. It was spoken of today in this House, that it was very successful and it is a good way to approach justice. I know people who are in the corrections system who have asked for this type of program here in the west, however, nothing has been developed to date, that I'm aware of, to do a similar thing. I would like to urge the Minister and his department to look at it immediately. Maybe the people who are in the corrections system can make use of this type of rehabilitation.

I've been told that once somebody is in jail here, often they just lay around, watch TV, eat and sleep. That's basically what it boils down to. With an alternative new initiative, there may be opportunity for these people to benefit and become rehabilitated so they can take on society once they get back out again.

There are people within the jail system who certify different inmates. Some of the attitudes of some of these people are very negative and not productive for inmates. If the department could look into this, I would appreciate it.

Finally, in the area of designating young offenders, we're all aware that there is a lot of dissatisfaction on the part of the people of Fort Smith to the decision that was made by the Minister and his department to triple designate the facilities there. There was a lot of uproar about that. I just wanted to say that this was probably caused by inadequate consultation with the people of Fort Smith prior to changes being announced. I've talked to people there. Even though it is not my constituency, I know people there and some of the people who work within the system are dissatisfied because they weren't aware of any previous consultation, before changed occurred.

This government has taken pride in the fact that they have consulted with the people in the communities where they are providing programs and services. I think that perhaps in this area, this consultation lapsed. I would like to urge the Minister and his department not to overlook the precedent that this government has taken. Mahsi.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. I will start with the last concerns the Member raised and go back to the first issues he raised. The first one was on the Fort Smith uproar with my designating the correctional facility as a triple designated facility. I always felt it was out of concern for the public and they questioned whether the triple designation was a manageable concept. Others questioned whether triple designation was a legally acceptable way of managing and carrying out our legislative responsibilities. In one instance, the local union representative presented himself to me and in an outburst, said I don't agree with you on the triple designation and there isn't anything you can say that will ever make me change my mind. I had a good look at him and said, that is probably a good reason for not bothering to talk to you about it at all. Generally speaking, people have been concerned and we have conducted a review which I gave you an update on today. It is treated very seriously and I said in a public meeting there that if I am wrong, I will be more than happy to admit that and make the necessary arrangements to correct that. But I don't feel that I am, and if I did even remotely question the decision I made, I would have changed it a long time ago. I feel the decision last year was correct and it is manageable

. It has become a bit politicized, but nevertheless I think it is a manageable concept. The review will certainly help us address that and I will comply with the review, if it is categorical in stating that I was wrong to make the decision I have. I will also expect applause if the review finds that I was right. I would expect the people in Fort Smith to accept that in good grace as well, including the leaders.

There is some work being done with the corrections people in trying to find ways we could use more land-based programming. We are trying to find some ways to do it out at the Yellowknife Correctional Centre. There are currently some discussions going on. I recognize what the Member is saying. We suffer from an insufficient number of staff to do the kinds of things we would like to do, and there is also overcrowding of the facilities. I say with some hesitation about what we can and cannot do under the present legislation that governs us in this area. Nevertheless, we try to comply with that. If there are negative attitudes taken by staff to inmates, then these should be dealt with through private correspondence by Members to me. In all instances, complaints will be investigated to make sure that inmates are not treated adversely by the staff and to make sure staff are not being unduly criticized or painted negatively by allegations in this area.

We will continue to try to find ways to support communities that want to get into discussions on different aspects of community policing. We have been doing extensive work there, as I mentioned earlier, and we will continue to do that. The RCMP have been alerted to the request by Liard for additional RCMP to bring it back to the way it was. The arguments the Member makes have been passed onto the RCMP there.

In Wrigley, I had requested that the community get a permanent RCMP there. Two years ago, that arrangement was made and it needs to be brought back to the attention of the RCMP again and I will do that.

There is a question with legal aid and I will put the question to the staff again, as well. I will try to get some assurance that the people served through legal aid are being served well, and make sure there is proper regard and respect given to the clients and that they not be treated in a way the Member is suggesting. I will be asking about that as well. I think those are the comments the Member raised. Thank you.

Line By Line

Directorate

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Does the committee agree that we go into detail? Page 07-8, directorate, total O and M, $2.53 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Law Enforcement

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Law enforcement, total O and M, $26.976 million. Member for Nahendeh.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the second paragraph, second sentence, it says, "The GNWT also shares in the funding of a First Nations community policing program." What is this? Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister. Ms. Dundas-Matthews.

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Dundas-Matthews

Thank you. I am sure the Members are probably all aware of the terminology of the Three B program. It used to be referred to as the native constable program. It has been discussed today with the new tripartite agreements. We are now in negotiations with the federal government and, as the Minister and other Members have mentioned, there has been communication with some communities. We are at the early stages of getting the information out to all of the communities.

The federal government is now wanting to enter into tripartite agreements which would involve the community, the territorial government and the federal government for that funding.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Ms. Dundas-Matthews. Mr. Antoine.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is this funding specifically for First Nations communities? Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Nahendeh.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

How can a community get involved in this? Is there an application process?

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The community justice specialists are the way the communities can start to become familiar with these types of agreements and to begin discussions at the community level about how to make use of these agreements. I think, in the end, we are going to end up with agreements between this government, the RCMP and the communities. The way to do it is through the justice specialist.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Law enforcement. Member for Yellowknife North.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, I have three questions. The Minister has referred to the Solicitor General's branch and the Attorney General's branch but I don't see actual reference to it in the organizational chart. Is there now an official designation of the Solicitor General's branch and the Attorney General's branch? And, if there is, does the Solicitor General's branch include law enforcement, community justice and corrections, and is everything else under the Attorney General's branch? That information would be helpful, just for my own clarification.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, in the opening comments I made, I mentioned there are two deputy ministers. That is the way we're set up organizationally. Functionally, the chart we showed does not show those positions, but they do exist. As far as what is on the Solicitor General's side, it includes law enforcement, community justice and corrections which, of course, includes policing. Everything else is under the Attorney General's branch.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I think that particular organization makes sense, it would just be helpful for everybody to clarify it in the book. I have a question I would like to follow up on with the Minister, a question I asked in oral questions about policing in Yellowknife. I think I've made my point a couple of times that there is an obvious lack of officers here in Yellowknife and that's been the case for awhile. The Minister has agreed to look at it and the Standing Committee on Finance has made it a priority.

The Minister said, in response to one of my questions about this issue, that he would like to see more community involvement and that the community, itself, has to take more responsibility in this area. Perhaps the Minister could give me some examples of what sort of support would be helpful in Yellowknife to help convince the Minister that we do need some extra resources here in Yellowknife.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

In the comments I was making, I wasn't really putting them in the context of Yellowknife, which is quite a large centre, but more with the smaller communities which I think, in many ways, have a more manageable grasp because of their size and informal relationship everyone has with each other at the community level to grapple with the causes of the problems that lead us to ask for additional policing resources.

I've said on many occasions that I believe communities like Wrigley and some of the smaller communities that do not have a police presence -- and because of some of the social problems like alcohol and drug abuse, and family violence -- that, for the sake of the women, children, and old people in communities like that, we have to make every effort to make sure there is a police presence in those communities, just so people feel safe at night, so they can feel safe in their homes when some of the weekend partying goes on, and so they feel safe to walk out and about their community.

I'm not saying that there are great problems in places like Wrigley, but I just raise it as an example of a community that should have a police presence. On the other hand, we know that the Members from Yellowknife have been saying for some time that Yellowknife is severely under-resourced for the needs they have. I accept that, but I have no way to quantify it. I don't really have a basis on which to talk to the RCMP and to

provide suggestions to the legislature about what to do about it.

The smaller communities that I pointed out earlier are predominantly aboriginal in population. They will have access to some of the First Nations aboriginal policing programs. There is an increasing number of members of the RCMP who are aboriginal who wish to be stationed in the communities. There are programs becoming available that will assist more communities to meet their needs. We will take that into account when we do this review. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I want to be very clear. The intention here is not to set up a conflict between smaller communities and Yellowknife. I think we all recognize the needs in all communities for adequate protection. I guess from an overall government point of view, it comes down to priorities. I personally believe that as far as nurses, teachers and police officers, they have to be a priority. I think every community has the right to those resources. It is a right in smaller communities and also a right in larger communities to feel some peace at night and to feel some degree of comfort when their children or wives go out, that they are going to be safe.

I don't think it should ever come down to a competition between different sized communities. It is more than that. It is a government acceptance of certain underlying priorities. I think the police have never had any trouble in coming up with criteria-based policing needs; needs driven by numbers and statistics. I'm sure you could get that tomorrow from the RCMP. The other factors the Minister is talking about are important and I agree they have to be brought into the equation. There are many different solutions out there, there are many different opportunities. But, in the meantime, what I want to impress upon the Minister is that the situation here in Yellowknife, I believe, is quite serious. I made a point of, last summer, having a look at what happens on the streets in front of the bars at 1: 00 in the morning when gangs of 1,500 people fight it out. It's like the old west right in the middle of the streets of Yellowknife. The police are obviously hesitant. Unless you have a goodly number of them, it's a very difficult situation for them. During the strike at Giant, just because of the way it taxed resources of the Yellowknife detachment, there were many other things they weren't able to do for a year and a half.

We've had, for the first time of my recollection, things like armed robberies. That was unheard of in Yellowknife up until the last couple of years. I think Members have talked about the number of B&Es we're getting now in Yellowknife, and the problems with kids. So the situation in Yellowknife -- and I hate to dramatize things and I don't want to overemphasize it, but I think it's approaching a danger point. I hope, perhaps, there might be some intermediate solutions to deal with the real problem as we wait for a long-term solution with the sort of studies and the consultation that the Minister is talking about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. I'm not sure whether there was a question there, however, Mr. Minister, you may respond.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. What we're going to be looking at...As I say, the review is a result of concerns raised by the Members from Yellowknife, but also from places like Nahendeh, Deh Cho and others such as in the High Arctic where communities have no police presence whatsoever. I agree, it should not be and it is not a small community or Yellowknife sort of scenario. I just raised it, and it shouldn't be negatively translated into that sort of a set-up.

My own impression is that Yellowknife is the biggest aboriginal community in the Northwest Territories. Many of my constituents and certainly every Member of this House has large numbers of constituents living here in Yellowknife. It is all of our obligations, I hope, to recognize that. I think even Mr. Todd would agree with me.

There are communities, for instance, that are the same size in the Northwest Territories which have two or three times the number of members that an equivalent community with the same population has. There are reasons for that, but I'm not sure what the reasons are. In some communities there are six members and in other places there are one or two where there are the same number of people. Some are more restless, perhaps, but there are reasons for it and I would like to know what the reasons are and have a good discussion on it, and see, if anything, at some time or other people need to take more responsibility. I don't know what would happen if in some communities we just served notice that over a period of two or three years we're going to start withdrawing the number of members assigned to the community, and that we will await some innovative solutions for them to suggest what would help them bring down the need for the level of policing that they've historically had. I would like to look at things like that.

I know in Yellowknife we're just talking about the youth justice committee. We need to look at things like that and other projects. The community justice specialist was helping us to try to come up with some suggestions from Dettah for things we could use to work with the youth for crime prevention-type projects. Those are the kinds of things we need as well. I don't know if that is a response the Member would feel satisfied with.

But, in the end we're not disregarding the calls for more policing. We are going to look at it. As I say, we're drafting a terms of reference. I would be prepared to make a draft terms of reference available to Members so they can comment on them before we do anything with them. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Ballantyne.

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I hear what the Minister is saying and I think the Minister is hearing what I'm saying. I totally agree that in the long term we have to look at these different alternatives as far as community justice, youth justice committees and what have you. But I have no illusion that in the short to medium term we're going to need more police officers. In the long term, hopefully we can lower that need curve so it's not quite as sharp as it is right now. I would say in the next five years, there's no doubt in my mind, before some of the other initiatives start to bear fruit, we're going to need more police officers. I think we have to be very pragmatic about that.

I'll take what the Minister says. I want the Minister to take what we're saying very seriously. If the situation in Yellowknife appears to be worsening, I hope the Minister will take whatever steps are necessary to deal with that. Mr. Chairman, that's fine for that part of it.

I have one more question, but before I ask it, I just wanted to make a couple of comments regarding some of the staff of the department. First of all, in the House I would like to recognize the former deputy minister, Geoff Bickert's contribution to the department over the last seven and a half years. I think he made a considerable contribution to the department and to the government. I know he served myself, Mr. Patterson and Mr. Kakfwi, very well. I just want to wish him the best in his future career.

Secondly, I would like to extend my thanks, and I'm sure other Members' thanks, to Mr. Garson who has filled in very ably in the job. I've known Mr. Garson for a number of years, wearing a number of different hats. He is an exceptionably capable individual. I really enjoy dealing with him in this capacity, and I enjoy dealing with him in his capacity as principal secretary.

Two others of your staff, Mr. Minister, I think deserve some public praise. One is, as Dennis Patterson mentioned, Nora Sanders. I think she was an exceptional choice for that position as your ADM of your Solicitor General staff. She has a very strong background here in the Northwest Territories, that has been augmented by experiences in Ontario. I think she does combine those attributes that both you, Mr. Minister, and Mr. Patterson were talking about, in that you need a certain toughness but you also need compassion. I think Nora, very well, combines those attributes. I think she's an excellent choice.

I would also like to say that Miles Pepper has done tremendous service for this Legislative Assembly. Many people don't recognize that when we first became officially bilingual, if it wasn't for Miles, it wouldn't have worked. We would not have gotten our legislation through. Many a day Miles pulled a miracle out of the hat and saved us with his vast network of friends and colleagues across the country. He filled in admirably after Geoff left, and I think he deserves a tremendous vote of thanks from all of us for the work he has done and for the work that I'm sure he'll continue to do.

Mr. Minister, I think you have a very competent, very loyal and capable staff. They are carrying out very difficult responsibilities in a very professional manner. The lady who is sitting beside you sat beside me for many years, Louise Dundas-Matthews, kept me from making many a mistake over the years. I always appreciated her advice and her good counsel. I am generally satisfied with the work of the department and wish you all the best in carrying on.

I have only one request as a former Minister. There is nothing worse than former Ministers second-guessing departments. I have one duty I have to perform from the past. I mentioned it last night in our meeting with the deputy commissioner. The Minister will recall, a number of years ago, one of the three RCMP twin otters crashed. At that time, I believe that the federal government definitely had a financial responsibility. That went on and on. I am not sure if it has been resolved. At one point it was going to go to arbitration. I still think the federal government bears some financial responsibility and liability for that. But when all is said and done, I think the effectiveness of the force has been lessened by only having two planes, rather than three. As communities are demanding more services, there is more movement of prisoners, and having that extra plane really does add to the flexibility of the force to provide services, especially in some of the smaller communities. I will put in one request from the past, as it were, and ask the Minister to have a really good look at the viability of getting that extra twin otter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Mr. Minister.

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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. The issue of the RCMP aircraft was initially agreed to be put to arbitration since we couldn't come to an agreement with the RCMP or the federal government on replacing what we thought was the loss of an aircraft, through the fault of someone else other than ourselves. So we haven't been able to resolve it, but we have been pushing it. I know the RCMP feel very strongly about it, and I have gone to bat for them in that regard as I have for judges and other people who feel they need good strong representation. I am convinced of it. I just want to make sure the responsible party coughs up the money to make sure this aircraft is replaced. We think we should be able to resolve it in the next while.

With regard to the other comments, I just want to raise that the concerns of the level of policing in a place like Yellowknife, register very clearly with me. I have gone to the extent of telling the RCMP that if they feel they are severely under-resourced and it is placing them in an impossible situation, they should tell me that categorically so I can do something about it. If it is a manageable situation at this time, then I would expect them to carry on the best they can. That is the way I have left it. In the meantime, we are going to do a review to make sure the resources we have are distributed in the best way possible. That will help us establish whether this legislature and this government are providing adequate resources for that.

Lastly, I want to thank the Member for his good comments about the staff, including the new staff, the acting deputy minister, Mr. Garson; and, Mr. Bickert, who has served as deputy minister for many years, who has done tremendous work as the chief legal advisor to the government and as the deputy minister as well, for managing the Department of Justice on behalf of this government. I will leave it at that. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. We are just about out of time. Mr. Antoine.

Motion To Extend Sitting Hours, Carried

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I would like to conclude this department today. Therefore, I move that we extend sitting hours to conclude this department. Thank you.

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The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. The motion is in order to extend hours to conclude this department. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

We shall continue on until the conclusion of this department. We are on law enforcement. Page 07-9, total O and M, $26.976 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Legal Aid

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

The Chair Tony Whitford

Legal aid, total O and M, $4.619 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Lawyer Support Services

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

The Chair Tony Whitford

Lawyer support services, total O and M, $2.282 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Registries And Court Services

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

The Chair Tony Whitford

Registries and court services, total O and M, $7.752 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Community Justice And Corrections

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

The Chair Tony Whitford

Community justice and corrections, total O and M, $19.823 million. Mr. Ng.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few questions. What kind of programs does the department undertake in rehabilitation of young offenders and people at correctional institutions? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 713

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

What type of programs do we have in correctional facilities and facilities for young offenders? They are quite wide-ranging and there is no specific set of programs. For instance, in the Hay River Correctional Centre, there is no program space in that facility. Almost all of the programs we

run there are outdoor programs, wood cutting and fishing, for example. In other adult facilities we have things like upgrading, life-skills, guide training, art, carving, et cetera. In all young offender facilities we have classes, either they have their own in-house instructions provided to them or they attend local schools. There are counselling services available to almost all of the facilities in the territories. We have two psychologists who work within corrections. That is kind of sketchy, but off the top of my head, those are the ones I know we have. Of open custody facilities, there are the bush camps and the land-based programs that the Member is aware we operate in some of the communities where local and hunters and trappers take young offenders out on the land and provide an on the land living and experience for them.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 714

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Are the bulk of the counselling and rehabilitative services contracted out or is it primarily internal?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 714

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

It is all internal except we have contractors providing services, as in the open custody facilities. There, we have contractors. Where we have small families or operators providing on the land and open custody facilities, we are now discussing ways to provide some structure to these operations so the trapper or harvester who is operating these facilities may get the support from someone who is knowledgeable in programming, scheduling and those sorts of things, so there is a substantive base of information we can use for monitoring the young offenders out there.

It is fairly elementary. For instance, there is no way for us to tell if we send five young offenders out to the Mackenzie Mountains with an operator that all of them, over a period of time, will make the fire in the morning, gather materials for fire, learn how to make it and do all the different tasks themselves. I know, just from experience, that some of us tend to let other people do the same things over and over and some of us will always be the initiators. Those are the kinds of little things we want to keep track of, plus provide support to the operator so there is some sort of semi-programmable face to put on programs. If there are young offenders out there for a month, when they go in and when they come out, they should know the kinds of things they will be required to do. We should be able to measure their performance. Those are the kinds of things we're looking at.

There's another comment I want to make in the area of programming. We've found, over the years, that we're over capacity all the time, in the Yellowknife Correctional Centre, for instance, where there is a capacity of 130 at this time. The original capacity of the facility was about 50 so the programming space that was eventually built into that facility has long since been taken up for bed space. There is no programming space left in the facilities. That is one of the difficulties we're having. Even though we want to provide programs, we don't have the space. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask if the department does ongoing evaluations of the effectiveness of the rehabilitation services to clients. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister of Justice.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

It is difficult to do. One of the fears we have is there are more and more offences being committed by younger and younger members of our communities. They are becoming more frequent and more violent in nature, and the first crop of these young offenders are now in the age of adulthood. Whether the few programs we have to offer are having any impact is almost impossible to say. We don't know that we have the luxury of time to take a measured approach to this. Our view is we have to move as quickly as we can to support community initiatives that would have communities taking responsibility for young and adult offenders. Perhaps their approach and the approaches they come up with will have much better results, and results that are easier to measure than ours could ever have. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to your last comment about having communities taking on more responsibility. I would like to ask about the community justice specialists who are in the regions. They are mandated to help establish some of these community-based organizations. How is that working right now? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 714

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister of Justice.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

There is a meeting happening right now, I think it is the second or third series of meetings we've had with community justice specialists since we started this program. They are slowly getting organized, working as a group, and comparing notes and experiences from right across the north. It is my view that they are going to start having more and more of an impact on communities in the next couple of years.

It is almost like a field worker program, except we only have one for each region. The amount of information they have to absorb and be able to retain, as well as the ability to develop an approach to working with communities to come up with projects is quite enormous. They are having a meeting right now in Yellowknife. I haven't had time to check with them again, but we have been giving them a lot of support and encouragement and it is my view that they are going to make a difference. That is who I'm pinning my hopes on. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 714

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Member for Kitikmeot.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One final question regarding the community justice specialists. Have there been any success stories yet? Have there been any community-based committees or organizations set up in the last six months to a year? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 715

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, in the Inuvik region, for instance, we have done quite a bit of work to help communities get organized to get involved with justice. We've set up a number of contracts to do work in just about all the regions. There are an extensive number of things that have been prepared. What I will do is share a bunch of information with the Members about the different kinds of contracts we've signed with a number of communities in the different regions.

For instance, in the Baffin region, we've done work with the hamlet of Sanikiluaq, the town of Iqaluit, Pangnirtung, Arctic Bay and Pond Inlet. We have done work with the Deh Cho Regional Council and the Fort Simpson Council. There is a whole range of contracts that have been done. Some of them have been initiated by the community justice specialists, helping communities focus on the things they want to do and helping expedite the work. In the Inuvik region, the justice specialist has been working with the Inuvialuit communities and the Gwich'in communities. He has worked with the Sahtu region to set up some of the justice committees there. He has done work with some of the camp operators and helped us to get a better handle on some of the things. One of the operators in the Sahtu region said it was the first time, in all the years he has provided services to this government, that someone actually went to his camp, and he has provided that service for about ten years. I think they are having a good effect because the specialists are there and part of the community. They are not seen as government employees so much as advocates for change on the community's side. Maybe we will share this information with the Members if you want. It is kind of extensive. I will get very long-winded and sound like a braggart if I get into it.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I have a question as a follow-up to a response to Mr. Patterson about the Yellowknife youth justice committee. I would like some more explanation from the Minister about what is happening with the committee. My understanding was -- and I could be wrong -- the committee has been having some problems getting itself organized and had come to the government to ask for a little bit of assistance to get some space and a coordinator. With the number of young offenders coming through the system in Yellowknife and in keeping with both my philosophy and the Minister's philosophy that we should divert some of those kids out of the system. That small investment in the front-end with the youth justice committee could create a much larger savings at the other end if these kids go through the system. Could the Minister give me more explanation as to what is happening with this committee?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

The Yellowknife youth justice committee has been in operation since 1986. The amount of work they handled increased over a period of time, so they were given an executive director full time. More recently, a conflict arose between the members and there was a perceived conflict of interest between the executive director and the community justice specialist due to the spousal relationship they had. In 1992, we did a review of all young offenders service provisions in Yellowknife. As a result of the review, the youth justice committee reverted to volunteers. Many of the members resigned as a result of that. There is a committee now which the local justice specialist is now working with to make sure they become operational again. That is some of the things that were done. We just completed a financial audit of the money that had been used in previous years. We need to organize their paperwork and provide training in all the different areas of operation that they have. This is the work that has been undertaken. If the Member is suggesting the fast way to get this committee going again is to provide it with some money up front, we will look at it. But we have said to other communities, we try not to provide money for honorariums until there has been some commitment from committee members for a period of time. Yellowknife, being different, we could take that into consideration.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 715

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I thank the Minister for that. I am not suggesting that honoraria should go to the board of directors in Yellowknife when it doesn't happen in the communities. I was suggesting there may be some need, even on a short-term basis, to hire someone to get it all organized. If there is a review going on, all I will ask of the Minister is if he would give it some of his personal attention and ensure that whatever has to happen happens to get this youth justice committee up and running.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 715

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I will meet with the justice specialist involved and ask for a full briefing on it. I will do what I can to support the work that is going on there. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 715

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Yellowknife North, Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I have one more question and it is in an area that many people say needs more work. I have to be very honest. Between victims and offenders, I will be straight up, I am biased towards victims. If there are limited funds, I would say that my bias is the victims get those funds. But I do recognize that you will never solve the problem in the long term until we come to grips with trying to change the pattern of behaviour of people who are convicted of serious crimes. My question has to do with rehabilitation and halfway houses. My understanding is the John Howard Society in Yellowknife made a proposal to the government looking for some assistance in dealing with offenders. Again, in keeping with the philosophy that anything we can do with offenders to break that vicious circle is positive, perhaps the Minister can explain to me why this particular request for funding was turned down.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you. I don't have that information available to me. There are probably reasons why the proposal was handled the way it was, but I am not privy to it at this time. We can make sure we answer the question in some form or other.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I don't need it right now. If the Minister would just get back to me with details of that, I'd be prepared to take it from there. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I know that the contract we had with them was for up until the end of this month and it was to help do community service work, as I understand it, and to do work placements and that sort of thing. I'm not certain if the contract is going to be renewed. It is my expectation that there would be discussions to renew the contract. I have no information to suggest that it is not going to be renewed, but the contract runs out at the end of the month. So, if there were discussions to renew it or to extend it, I don't know the status of them. If the Member is saying they've been turned down flat, he knows more than I do at this time.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Ballantyne.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

The confusion may be that this is a separate proposal altogether. It is my understanding that there was a three year proposal for -- I can't remember -- $350,000 or $400,000. If the Minister could perhaps look into it and give me the information back, we'll take it from there.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

It's occurred to me that maybe we are talking about something separate altogether.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Okay. We are on page 07-13, community justice and corrections. Total O and M, $19.823 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Details of grants and contributions. Grants, $46,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Page 07-15, contributions, $3.009 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Grants and contributions, $3.055 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Detail of work performed on behalf of third parties, that's an information item. Total department, $567,000.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Qujannamiik. We'll go back to program summary. According to Mr. Schauerte, it is on page 07-07, and I believe him.

---Laughter

Department of Justice, program summary, total O and M, $63.982 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Does the committee agree that this department is concluded?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair John Ningark

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank the honourable Member and his witnesses. Thank you. I will now rise and report progress.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

I call the House back to order. Good afternoon. Item 19, report of committee of the whole. The honourable Member for Natilikmiot, Mr. Ningark.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 716

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1 and would like to report progress. Madam Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with, and, Madam Speaker, I hope that you have a good weekend. Thank you.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 716

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. I hope you have a good one, too. Is there a seconder for the motion? It is seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh. Your motion is in order. To the motion.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 19: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 716

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 20, third reading of bills. Item 21, Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 716

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Madam Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Chairs' Liaison Committee

immediately after adjournment. There will also be a meeting of the Nunavut Caucus immediately after adjournment this afternoon. At 3:00 pm this afternoon, there will be a meeting of the Constitutional Development Steering Committee. Meetings for Monday morning, at 9:00 am of the Standing Committee on Finance, also at 9:00 am of the Standing Committee on Legislation and at 10:30 of the Ordinary Members' Caucus. Orders of the day for Monday, March 21, 1994.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Oral Questions

6. Written Questions

7. Returns to Written Questions

8. Replies to Opening Address

9. Petitions

10. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

11. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

12. Tabling of Documents

13. Notices of Motion

14. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

15. Motions

- Motion 23, Special Order of Reference to Standing

Committee on Agencies, Boards and Commissions of

the First Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner

of the Northwest Territories

16. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend The Arctic College Act

17. Second Reading of Bills

18. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95

- Committee Report 2-12(5), Review of the 1994-95 Main

Estimates

- Minister's Statement 5-12(5), Session Business

- Tabled Document 1-12(5), Towards an NWT Mineral

Strategy

- Tabled Document 2-12(5), Building and Learning

Strategy

- Tabled Document 34-12(5), Tradition and Change, A

Strategy for Renewable Resource Development in the

NWT, February 1994

19. Report of Committee of the Whole

20. Third Reading of Bills

21. Orders of the Day

Item 21: Orders Of The Day
Item 21: Orders Of The Day

Page 717

The Speaker Jeannie Marie-Jewell

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Monday, March 21, 1994, at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT