Thank you, Mr. Todd.

---Applause

Does the Standing Committee on Finance have any introductory remarks? Mr. Ng.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee was generally pleased with the Department of Transportation's presentation. Some concern was expressed that the recently tabled Transportation agenda does not provide the committee

or the Assembly with enough information about the department's long-term strategy. The department has to give the committee a clearer picture of medium and long-term plans, including priorities and deadlines for proposed projects.

Government Contracts

The issue of contracting, in general, and specifically negotiated contracts and the business incentive program, are discussed in this report, under the Financial Management Board. The committee is in favour of initiatives that will maximize opportunities for local employment on government contract work. The Department of Transportation must work with other departments to improve the policy and procedures surrounding negotiated contracts and in considering possible alternative to negotiated contracts.

We also look forward to seeing the results of the review of the business incentive policy (BIP), and encourage the government to strengthen BIP -- and, in fact, the entire public tender process -- in order to maximize local employment. It is important that the Department of Transportation work closely with other departments, especially the Department of Public Works and Services in their examination of the BIP, negotiated contracts and other issues affecting northern employment and economic development, so there will be maximum benefit to the north.

Arctic Airports

Members of the committee suggested that smaller airports be given more attention. There is a feeling that the department is concentrating on the larger airports in large communities -- especially on the negotiations to take over the "A" airports from the federal government -- to the exclusion of airports in smaller communities. The committee noted that the Transportation agenda suggests that all but one northern airport will have at least a "D" classification by 1988.

Recommendation 34

The committee recommends that the Department of Transportation increase the priority of improving air service in smaller communities, and that the department respond to the committee with a plan of action in these areas by August 1, 1994.

Emergency Response

The committee also expressed a desire for the department to take an active role in emergency response and safety throughout the transportation system. From regular highway patrols to airport safety, the department should be leading the way in making the Northwest Territories a safe place to travel. Some suggestions offered by the committee include training highway maintenance crews to be able to handle emergencies encountered by highway travellers, or building emergency airstrips at intervals along the highway system. There are numerous imaginative ideas which the department could use to achieve the goal of safer travel.

The committee encourages the department to consider ways in which the department could best use its resources to

provide emergency response throughout the NWT transportation system.

Budget Documents

While there was a great deal of movement from last year's departmental estimates to this year's -- that is, movement of PYs and funds from one task or activity to another -- the documents, themselves, contain very little explanation of what was moved where. We were quite disappointed with this, as it made it difficult for committee Members to follow the changes in the department. The committee strongly suggests that this department (and all departments) clearly describe the movements involved when funds or personnel are moved from on task or activity to another.

Funding For Large Projects

With large and important projects on the horizon, including the transportation corridor from Yellowknife through the Slave geological province to Coppermine, the government must find new and innovative means to find funding support for such projects. The government, in fact, should be working to alert possible investors to the enormous potential for development here in the north, and encourage them to invest in the north, especially to create a much-needed infrastructure.

Engineering Services And Privatization

The committee encourages the department to examine the engineering services provided in-house by existing staff, and carefully consider whether these services could be successfully provided by the private sector.

Thank you, Mr. Ng. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

That concludes your presentation, Mr. Ng?

Yes, it does, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

General comments in the area of the Department of Transportation. Mr. Todd.

Would you like me to move to the table and bring in my witnesses, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. Todd, if you are planning to bring in witnesses, you have to move to the table. Do we have the concurrence of the committee that Mr. Todd bring in his witnesses? Thank you. Proceed, Mr. Todd. Sergeant-at-Arms, please bring in the witnesses. Thank you. It's the routine that you introduce the witness for the record.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my immediate right is Mr. Gamble who is the deputy minister of Transportation. Thank you.

And on your left? There is no one there. We are now open to general comments from the floor. The Department of Transportation. Is there anyone who would like to lead off? Mr. Arvaluk.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are several points I would like to make, although they are in different pages of the O and M, that are for the purpose of transportation planning division to do. However, I cannot see a specific thing that I would like to place here, so I guess I will categorize them in general comments.

First of all, I would like to congratulate Mr. Todd that he has been active with the transportation strategy since he became the Minister. I went to one of his planning meetings in Rankin Inlet, although it was short we were able to see there are some problems being presented and how they should be dealt with. There is a process that would take place.

Specifically, what I would like to know, Mr. Chairman, we have not been told exactly how much the winter road that was built from Rankin Inlet to Whale Cove cost. Secondly, is the Minister of Transportation planning to do similar types of initiatives in other communities, especially in isolated places like Coral Harbour? Because Coral Harbour has been economically deprived, other than with their own local initiatives, Coral Harbour is known for creating or being active in trying to have an economic base for themselves and that is the only way that Coral Harbour has been able to survive. Other than that there have been very few support or leadership initiatives from the government or private sector, other than local people.

With that note, I would like to know is there a plan for other Keewatin communities, like Coral Harbour, to get a road, especially an access road from Coral Harbour to Duke of York Bay to make the place more economically viable for the community for a number of reasons. Some of them being access to the wildlife area, commercial fishing, tourism and other economic activities that could be had if the access road could be built. The access road is necessary because you cannot travel around the island on the east side because of the ice floe pack that comes down Hecla Strait through Igloolik and Hall Beach. It is not possible to travel through there.

Secondly, the west side cannot be used because there are dangers on arrival because is too shallow. Either way, that north part of the Southampton Island has not been utilized by the Coral Harbour people, but rather by Repulse Bay and Chesterfield Inlet because they have direct access by boat. That's one of the things we have been working on. If the winter road like Rankin Inlet to Whale Cove can be done, and if the winter road can be done from Norman Wells to Fort Franklin on a year to year basis, surely there should be a very attractive investment on the part of the government to build a very, very cheap access road from Coral Harbour to Duke of York Bay. Is there a plan for that one?

There are those two questions I have, Mr. Chairman. I will make another comment after Mr. Todd has responded to my question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. I appreciate the Member's questions. If I can address the ice road issue in terms of cost, this is the first year of actually completing the ice road between Whale Cove and Rankin Inlet. That road is still active and we haven't completed the cost estimates and the value of it. But I want to assure the Member, I've said from the very beginning that that's what we intend to do.

The obvious extension, if this thing was to be successful and if it can be cost-effective -- and the only thing we have to compare it to, of course, is the ice roads that are built in the west -- would be the possibility of an extension into Chesterfield Inlet, Arviat and that immediate area in terms of ice roads. One, it's part of the linkages that are a natural part of the community. From a dollars and cents perspective, we're looking at an insignificant amount of money.

I want to say that this ice road is very much an experimental idea. We're trying to, as I say, evaluate whether it's cost-effective. Personally speaking, I hope it turns out that way because I do think with some of the experiences we've had that we can expand it into other communities.

With respect to the access roads -- and I believe this issue was raised previously by the honourable Member, with respect to Duke of York -- we do have a policy in place now which was approved by the Legislative Assembly. That's the access road policy. This access road policy came about primarily by the political lobbying that was done a year ago by Mr. Ningark and some others. In the need for some kind of four-wheel ATV vehicle-type of roads into areas as Mr. Arvaluk suggests, whether it's a tourist area, a fishing area or areas that local people and visitors could access. The access road policy currently has a budget of about $650,000, next year it has a budget of $750,000, subject to approval and the following year of $1 million, again, subject to approval.

The way we have been approaching the access road with the municipality is to say to them if you can give a little, we can give a little. In other words, discussions are under way right now with the Baker Lake hamlet, we have the Whitehills and in Arviat we have Maguse. I know these two well because we have been in discussions the last six or seven months. We are saying if you are prepared to come forward with some contribution in kind, let's say it is the utilization of equipment, perhaps we can put a program in place that would provide the municipality with some of the wages necessary and maybe some of the operational costs of the equipment necessary, over a three or four year period, to build those types of access roads. It is a question of sitting down with the municipality, working out an arrangement between what they are prepared to contribute and what resources we have and seeing if we can fund access roads of this type over a three and four year period. The policy is in place. There are limited dollars, but I would be only too happy to instruct the department to initiate discussions in Coral Harbour with respect to this. Departmental people will be in Coral Harbour soon anyway on the issue of the strategic planning money with respect to the wharf and the snafu road. So perhaps we could add that to the agenda and see if we can work out an arrangement with the municipality.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason I asked the specific question is it does not qualify for the access road he is talking about. I think the access road he is talking about would be between Rankin Inlet and Meliadine that was already built. We are talking about 80 miles and we would not qualify under this. Although the quality of the construction is probably similar to that of an access road, it would be 80 miles long.

The community of Repulse Bay has been saying to the departments of Public Works and Transportation that they don't want the rocks blasted any more. We are opposing Hydro Quebec and blasting our own communities at the same time, which drives away marine life. The community wants that to stop and rather concentrate on an access road to Northpole River so they will have an unlimited amount of gravel supply once that has been done. Is there any study being provided under your transportation strategy to correct that situation, to stop the blasting and crushing of rocks to avoid the disaster to marine life?

While we are limited in resources, I think it is important to point out that if we can work with a municipality, the access road with respect to the Duke of York Bay, even though it is 80 miles away, it would still fall under the policy of access roads. Again, it is resources. We would have to take a look at what it would cost, et cetera.

On the issue of Repulse Bay, in some ways it is the same thing. What we perhaps need to do is sit down with the Repulse Bay council and try to work out how we would jointly fund, between the municipality and the department, the possibility of this road to this area where they have significant gravel finds. We do have new superintendents. I would like to suggest, if it is all right with the honourable Member, that I ask the superintendent to go into Repulse Bay and Coral Harbour to see if we can make an arrangement with the hamlet council, at least to get on paper what they require, look at the costs and see if it is fiscally feasible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't want to prolong this, but I have one more question. I find this extremely difficult because some of the communities are not in receivership, but are in a deficit recovery program which makes it very difficult for them to match dollar for dollar, like the Minister is suggesting. I think we could have a discussion without going over their heads, such as, if you don't contribute, we are not going to fund anything at all. I think we have to be broader than that. Most of the small communities cannot afford any kind of a capital contribution, like the Minister is suggesting. I don't want this discussion to be limited to that kind of attitude whereby we will match you 50-50 in order for the access group to materialize. I hope the superintendent who will be visiting Repulse Bay will not have that strict order that there will be no negotiations unless Repulse Bay is ready and prepared to contribute the other half of the dollar. With that, I should thank the Minister for taking action on Repulse Bay district.

I read a paper the other day that there was a miracle landing in the United States. The front wheel would not lower. Because of the pilot's skill, they landed without any disaster or accident. That was a private plane. I laughed at that one because we always get flat tires in Repulse Bay when we are landing and nobody ever talks about it. We never make the newspaper. I thank him for putting extra gravel on that one. Every second week, we always get flat tires there and it is not called a miracle if we land. Is there a plan of activity or, at least, government leadership to get those placed in these communities before any disasters happen, especially that Boeing 748 Calm Air uses. I think that should be scrapped.

Is there any initiative that the government is taking telling the companies or, at least, the licensing or transport board, to watch that they be more careful, that some of those aircraft that are not supposed to be carrying passengers sometimes still carry passengers. I would like to get some action in this area because hospital patients especially get very nervous flying in those old war planes. Thank you.

I think, in recent discussions with the Honourable Doug Young, the federal Minister of Transportation, he said to me that the primary focus of the federal Department of Transportation is going to be safety. That is going to be the number one priority, particularly in aviation. It compounds itself even more when you are in the Arctic because it is the primary mode of transportation. We really have no other way of getting out on long distances. We recognize the importance of safety. In some ways, with the limited resources we have, we are trying to do the best we can. We did do a major upgrade, as Mr. Arvaluk said, in Repulse Bay last year. It is our intention to do as much as possible to improve the conditions of the runways. We are limited in terms of resources, but we do recognize the importance of safety for all of us and all our friends. Thank you.