No, not at this time.

General comments. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Chairman, I will start off with the good things, as I usually do. I just want to reiterate, because I have close dealings with the superintendent and some staff members of the department in Baffin, which is headquartered in my riding, that the significant breakthrough made by Mr. Todd, with the full support of his deputy, I know, in devolving authority to the regions has made an enormous impact, I believe, on the morale of regional staff. I have said before in this House that it seemed like they had to get permission from Yellowknife to go to the bathroom in Baffin in the past, and now it is completely different.

I know a bit about the dynamics of government organizations. I suspect there was a touch of reluctance on the part of some of the able bureaucrats in headquarters in the department about this change, and they will be closely monitoring the situation.

But I want to say that it has given a new lease on life, in my view, to the staff in my region, and it has given my constituents and others in the Baffin region a real ability to get things done with less delay. So I want to commend the department again for this change. I think it's working well, and I sense some new energy and enthusiasm in the department that is very positive.

Sure, there are some down sides and some areas that have to be watched, with this change. I endorse the standing committee's observation that adequate support needs to be provided to the regional staff so the superintendents and others can undertake these new responsibilities. The Minister may have a comment on that. I know this is a new change and there may be some realignments still required to provide that support.

I have also noted the concern that, in some regions, staff may be marching to a little different drum than the constituents and the MLAs. I think that is a problem that is easily dealt with. In my opinion and my experience, the quickest way to deal with a problem of that kind is to approach Mr. Todd or Mr. Bailey or the particular staff member in question. I have found they have been responsive to MLAs' concerns, and I don't think that's a situation that Mr. Todd would knowingly neglect if an official was not responding appropriately to the political winds blowing in a constituency. So I think that is undoubtedly a danger, or I think it is a problem that can be addressed.

I want to say, without being too lavish in my praise, that, in my view, the superintendent and staff in the Baffin region have the confidence of myself and, by and large, of the people who have to deal with them. It is sometimes a tough job because there are limits on dollars and programs, but I think they have good credibility and good relations with the department in the region.

I am pleased that Qikiqtaaluk Corporation and Kakivak Association have now got a very much improved and close working relationship with the department in the region. I think this is critical as we plan the implementation of Nunavut and the development initiatives that will flow from the land claims.

I also want to commend the department for having made it possible for the establishment of a regional economic planning position in the Baffin. I think that, with the Baffin MLAs and mayors, we are now working actively with the Baffin Region Inuit Association and Qikiqtaaluk Corporation and other concerned agencies to develop a Baffin economic strategy. It will be made in Baffin, it will be appropriate to the region, it's off and running and will lead to, I am sure, the best utilization of resources in the region.

So all of these are good things, and I don't need to reiterate my support for tourism and parks. I am glad it's staying in the department, and I am very excited about the development of the Auyuittuq Park, which borders on my riding and that of Mr. Pudlat and has already had measurable economic benefits to both constituencies, perhaps, particularly, the community of Lake Harbour. I welcome the cost-benefit analysis that the Minister has proposed to undertake. I think it will give us measurable evidence that an investment in parks is an investment in jobs and economic opportunities in our region, at least.

I want to say that I was a bit concerned about the Minister's assertion that there's a freeze on new park development, if I understood him correctly. I hope that won't prevent some orderly planning to be done in the region, because I think that where communities come up with good ideas for park development I wouldn't want to see the department say they won't get supported. Tourism is on the move in Baffin, and I'm sure it's our priority. It may not be a priority in other regions, I don't want to speak for other regions. But in the Baffin, I think our recent leadership meeting in January, affirmed this. Tourism is a priority in the whole region and I would hope that the department will respond by supporting communities that have ideas for parks.

There is one developing in my constituency, in the fabulous Patsialluq region on south Frobisher Bay, a natural opportunity to fishing, skiing, snowmobiling, hiking, naturalists, and the Inuit of the outpost camp in that region have begun to form a venture and have begun to talk about tourism development. I would hope that the department would be able to respond and give them support to carry that idea further.

Now, Mr. Chairman, I turn to a difficult issue, but I do want to raise it and I want to raise it in an open fashion. With due respect to the success that we've had in the fishery in Baffin, particularly in Pangnirtung, and the priority that the department has given through the Development Corporation and through the departmental officials, I still want to say that I think we should take a good look at the Pangnirtung fishery to see what lessons we can learn as we plan to develop other fisheries in the Baffin region and in other regions of the Northwest Territories. I've talked already in this House about the dangers of over subsidizing and over capitalizing. I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that this is the case in Pangnirtung, but I think we should take a close look at the situation and decide for ourselves whether government support has been appropriate to the kind of small scale, in-shore, small business development that we want to encourage in the region.

Since I see Ms. Mike is squirming a little bit, I'll pose some questions that I think we should all want to have answered. I want to assure the Member and her constituents, that I want to see a policy-based discussed occur about how the Development Corporation -- which is quite new -- provides assistance to communities, and how the Development Corporation's policies ensure that there will be a long-term viability in the fishery.

I have a few questions and I'll save them for the detail, Mr. Chairman, but I have a few questions about things like market disruption which is an issue with a constituent company which feels that in some areas they have been unfairly competed with through Development Corporation dollars. I would like to ask some questions about the adequacy of the resource and whether we may have, perhaps, been premature in investing heavy capital facilities on a fishery that I understand is still exploratory, without knowing that there is a long-term sustainable harvest available in that fishery.

Mr. Chairman, I have these questions and I'm going to ask them in as open-minded a way as I can. I would also like to say that I think it would be appropriate for some MLAs to take a look at the Pangnirtung fishery. I talked to Johnny Mike, the chairman of the Pangnirtung Fisheries, and he has invited me to go and see for myself. I've known him for many years and I know many of the people involved in that fishery, so I'm going to take him up on that offer with, I'm sure, the support of the Member for Baffin Central, to take a look and see for myself because we all want this to work. We want it to be a success. We want it to be viable. We want there to be competition in the fishery in the Baffin region. We want it to be a success. So, it's in that spirit, Mr. Chairman, that I'll be asking some questions. And hopefully, later on this spring, paying a visit to the Pangnirtung fishery to look at the new plant and to look at the whole situation with a view to seeing what lessons we can learn, what's been done right, perhaps what we might want to do differently in future as we develop the fishery in the Keewatin and the Kitikmeot and other parts of Baffin.

So I hope no one will feel threatened by these enquiries. They are intended to be constructive, and intended to promote a viable fishery, rather than one that's doomed to government subsidy forever and ultimate failure. That's my concern, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson. Those were general comments on page 17-11. Anybody else for general comments? Mr. Pudlat.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I would like to thank the Minister of Economic Development. We have worked very well with him with regard to economic development in my region, especially in Cape Dorset and Lake Harbour. I would like to thank him very much, and commend him as a Minister that he has helped us in my region very well.

Dennis stated earlier, the Baffin fisheries are concerned. I have also visited them with regard to economic development in my region. I have seen a lot of very good initiatives started by the Economic Development people. But, there are some concerns with the fact that if there are too many government subsidies at one time, it might come down. But at this time, it's moving along smoothly.

As well, I have heard about this concern in Iqaluit. But I haven't heard people expressing concern in Lake Harbour or Cape Dorset. They are trying to get some control over economic development prospects in their region, too. I know that other communities are interested in developing fisheries. That's the first part I would like to commend the Minister of Economic Development for that purpose.

We already know in the past that the communities were not aware of what was possible in the way of economic development in their region. Now, people are starting to realize that they are capable of making their own viable economy in their own region. The fact that people are aware -- in every community I'm sure there is not an economic development officer -- but people seem to be more enthusiastic towards the possibilities in their own region. For that purpose, I would like the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism to tell me if there are economic development officers in every region. That helps out in making people realize they are capable of independent planning on economic development issues. Maybe it is not so much of a concern in larger communities, but in smaller communities having jobs and economic possibilities is a concern. The education part of economic development possibilities is very important in smaller communities so they can start depending on their own resources and know how to operate a business viably and to operate industries in a viable fashion. People who are working for themselves, the cottage industry part of the economy, as well as working on tourism and training host communities where there are parks.

In Pangnirtung, there has been a visitors' centre for a long time. Could we possibly find out how we can acquire a visitors' centre the same way Pangnirtung has? This is with regard to my own region. Have you made any plans to set up a visitors' centre? Do we have to have cooperation from other communities to have a visitors' centre in our region? Not necessarily the same way other communities have them, but have them made for local parks areas where people visit and have information available to them in the region. I am probably talking too much. Those are some of the areas I would like to have answers to. I haven't read all of the economic development possibilities. Are there other things we can look forward to in our region for economic development purposes? Not just the tourism aspect, but the educational part of the development. Is there anything being planned for the communities or the public on how they can acquire

applications for funding from different sources? Can there be a public education program? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Mr. Todd.

On the two issues of the visitors' centre and parks facilities, I want to assure the honourable Member that there is a significant amount of money being spent on park development. As part of our overall strategy of developing this park, there will be some kind of visitors' centre/parks facility in that area. The department is working on that as part of their overall plan in terms of developing this park. I am pleased to hear that it has been very successful in attracting people into the area.

On the concern about our ability to advise the public of our programs, we are going to move forward on a much more aggressive campaign in the communities, specifically with respect to the fact that we have increased the regional authority. I know we have said that and people are tired of hearing that, but we have moved that regional authority out there. As part of moving that authority, there is also going to be a campaign to advise the community-at-large, small businesses, et cetera, about the new programs. That should help in letting people know, in the honourable Member's riding, about what is available for small and large businesses. Thank you.

General comments. Can we go into detail? Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Directorate

Page 17-12, directorate, $2.869 million, O and M. Agreed?

Agreed.

---Agreed

Policy And Planning

Policy and planning, $678,000, O and M.

Agreed.

---Agreed

Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Chairman, I am not sure if this is the place to ask this, but could I get an idea of where his planning is going with regard to tanneries and the processing of fur in the Northwest Territories? It has been talked about for years. This Minister is a man of action. Can we get a feeling for the plans in that field?

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My colleague knows there were some problems with the tannery in Broughton Island. I think it was environmental concerns and serious ones. We are addressing those. Hopefully, we will solve those problems very soon. We did put a small micro-tannery into the community of Whale Cove. It was done for under $50,000 because we managed to find an old building. There is some development taking place in the west in North Slave. There has been some review done with respect to the

possibility of a tannery in the Inuvik area because of the muskrats and the fur there. I am a strong proponent of trying to get greater utilization out of resources that, historically, we have only used for domestic consumption. I think, provided we do these things carefully, that they are environmentally sound, we can increase the dollars or the economic components to our renewable resources. It is a priority of the department. It is part and parcel of what we are doing, for example, with the caribou in the meat processing plants. We are trying to utilize the skins.

I have said it many times, if you look back, historically, we only got one hit with the caribou. It was used for domestic consumption by hunters and people in the communities. Now we are getting four. We are paying the hunter for shooting the caribou, we process it in a plant, we take the skin and put it in a tanner, then we take the tanned skin and put it in an arts and crafts facility. That is four hits that we haven't had before. It is part of an integrated plan to get greater utilization of a renewable resource. It is a priority. But we have to be extremely careful that we do this in an environmentally sound way.

Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is a lot of concern about the anti-fur sentiments in Europe. It is a very difficult battle that we have faced for some years. I know there is a project initiated by the private sector in Pangnirtung to sell seal leather to Japan. I think there is a sizable number of seal pelts being harvested in Pangnirtung for sale to Japan. I would like to ask the Minister his views on, with or without a European ban on leg hold trapped fur, which we all hope won't happen.

Setting aside that major European issue, I would like to ask the Minister, is there not another market in Asia where -- I understand from my visit to Japan -- there seems to be a much more positive attitude towards the harvest of renewable resources, marine mammals and the use of not just meat and body parts, but leather and fur? Has this department looked into the Asian market, or will the department be looking into that market for seal leather and other marine products, apart from whether we win or lose battles in Europe? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is the old saying, great minds think alike -- of course, the come back is fools seldom differ -- and I believe there is a market in Asia. I've spent some time there myself when I was in private life. We are going to be having discussions with the Newfoundland government about what they are doing with respect to seals, for example. I think there is a tremendous effort under way by former Ministers of Renewable Resources and present Ministers at the European level but, quite frankly, there has been very little effort done with regard to the Asian market.

We are moving forward on that initiative, to take a look at what opportunities may unfold. Madam Premier has indicated that, in discussions with the Premier from BC, he has offered that we tag on to some of their trade commissions. They are very active in the Asian marketplace, particularly in Hong Kong and Japan. I'm optimistic. At least from the Department of Economic Development's perspective, I think we'll be able to shift some of the commercial focus -- and I stress commercial focus, because that's our role -- to those markets. In an effort to try to save money and time, we're going to try to work in cooperation with both the Newfoundland government and the Government of BC, who already have experience in that area. Hopefully, we'll be able to move quickly with a strategy.

As we all know, in Toronto there was a Globe and Mail two-page ad about -- am I allowed to use the word? -- seal penises. It was a coincidence that I sat with Mr. Wells, the Premier from Newfoundland, who of course, I admire and we were talking about the whole issue. Basically, his position was he has 30,000 people unemployed and he has to find a way to get greater uses from renewable resources. I view renewable resources in exactly the same way. We've simply got to get more economic benefits from them. They are resources, particularly the seals in the eastern Arctic, that have historically been very beneficial to our harvesters.

There will be a shift. We will explore the commercial potential for renewable resources, whether it is muskox from Banks Island, seals from Broughton Island, or wherever. Hopefully, in the coming three or four months, we will have some indication if there are any opportunities in the Asia area. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

I would just like to simply say, Mr. Chairman, that I'm delighted to hear of the Minister's commitments to move in this area. It has my full support and I think that this is an area where we can get positive results in a huge and growing Asian economy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. We are still on policy and planning, page 17-13. Mr. Ng, did you want to say something?