This is page numbers 503 - 531 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was land.

Topics

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 2.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 3.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 3.1.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 4.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Clause 5.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Bill as a whole.

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 521

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 522

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree that Bill 3 is ready for third reading?

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Bill 3 is now ready for third reading. Does the committee agree that we proceed with Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Hamlets Act?

Bill 3: An Act To Amend The Cities, Towns And Villages Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 522

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 2nd, 1994

Page 522

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree that the Minister remain at the witness table with these witnesses, as the witnesses and the same Minister will be necessary for this bill?

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The Minister responsible for the bill, Mr. Arngna'naaq, would you care to introduce the bill?

Introductory Remarks

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, again, for the opportunity to address the committee of the whole, this time with respect to Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Hamlets. As I mentioned earlier, with respect to Bill 3, these bills have had a very thorough review by the Standing Committee on Legislation.

All of the considerable time spent in explaining and discussing the bills with the public was very valuable and it allows for a consensus to be reached between Cabinet and the Standing Committee on Legislation concerning an amendment to Bills 3 and 4.

Mr. Chairman, Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Hamlets Act, is virtually identical to Bill 3 that we have just been discussing. The bill is proposed to amend legislation for Hamlets and this will help to facilitate the implementation of the Nunavut land claim. As well, in all those areas of the NWT where land claims have been settled, the bill will help to advance the government's priority of community self-government and prepare municipal governments for the eventual administration of municipal lands.

Devolution of the community land administration program to community governments is not possible until aboriginal rights to community lands are first resolved, through the land claims process. Now that some land claims in the NWT have been finalized, municipal legislation must be amended to facilitate the turnover of municipal lands in those communities where land claims are settled. Municipal lands are a valuable resource which must be managed well for present and future community residents.

It is in preparation for these changes that we are proposing amendments to the Hamlets Act to provide that, in those communities where municipal lands will be created, municipal corporations shall each adopt a land administration by-law to set out, for the information and benefit of the public, the procedures the council will use when it sells or leases land. The Minister would have the authority to review the master land administration by-law, prior to third reading by council, to ensure in consultation with the municipal council, that open and fair policies and procedures are proposed.

Mr. Chairman, again I want to assure you that this bill will not prejudice aboriginal rights or any outstanding aboriginal claims negotiations. The legislation only applies to municipal lands, that is lands owned by a municipal corporation. It has nothing to do with how land becomes municipal land, aboriginal land or other types of land. In those communities where land claims are not yet settled, the GNWT land lease-only policy continues to remain in effect.

Mr. Chairman, I will now be prepared to answer any detailed questions that you or Members may have on the proposed bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq, for the introduction to the bill. Now, I will call upon the chairman of the Standing Committee on Legislation, who reviewed the bill, to make comments on the bill. Mr. Gargan.

Standing Committee On Legislation Comments

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Samuel Gargan Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The standing committee has had the opportunity to review this bill on three separate occasions. First, when it was tabled in May of 1993, and again in November of the same year. The committee would like to thank the Minister and his officials from the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs for presenting this bill during the public hearing, as well as for responding to the questions of the Members and the public. The committee would also like to thank all the members of the public who made a presentation to this committee in response to this bill.

The committee found the responses to be thought-provoking and informative. Information provided during the presentation was taken into consideration during our deliberation. Bill 4, as amended in the standing committee, amends the Hamlet Act to clarify that hamlets have the power to lease and subdivide lands and to set out a land administration sham for the disposal of land by municipalities. Before being entitled to sell or lease their lands to others, hamlets will be required to pass a land administration by-law to provide guidelines for the disposition of land. This by-law must be given public notice and must receive the approval of the Minister.

This bill also specifies when a hamlet may dispose of personal property and clarifies that it may lease personal property. As well, hamlets would be allowed to carry out a business to provide a service that is not necessarily connected to the traditional municipal purpose, if the Minister agrees that it is in the public interest.

The standing committee held public hearings in Fort Providence, Fort Simpson and Yellowknife, on this bill. In Fort Providence, we invited people from Fort Providence, the Hay River Reserve and Kakisa. An invitation was also sent, at the committee's expense, for people from Fort Liard and Wrigley to come to Fort Simpson. During these hearings, the committee heard concerns that this bill may seem to provide additional authority to municipal corporations. It was stated, during this hearing, that this bill may, by further infringement of municipal authority, hinder further land claims and self-government negotiations.

In consideration of these concerns, the committee, in cooperation with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, submitted motions to amend the bill. After considerable debate, the committee, with the concurrence of the Minister, voted to support the motions drafted by the department. The motion proposed the exemption of these municipal areas in the western Arctic that expressed concern connected with the bill. Strong opposition to the bill was voiced in areas where land claims have yet to be settled.

Therefore, the department, through a motion to amend in the committee, exempted the Hamlets of Fort Liard, Fort Providence, Rae-Edzo and Lac La Martre from the provision of this bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 523

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. The Minister has his witnesses at the table already. Therefore, we can proceed to general comments on the bill by Members. General comments. Mr. Zoe.

General Comments

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn't have a problem with the bill itself that was being proposed. It has been amended through the Legislation committee and it has been reprinted for communities who are exempt from the new amendment. My understanding is that the current legislation we have in place already provides for how to dispose of real property. They clarified it more so that the municipalities, particularly where people have already settled their land claims, could do all the selling, acquiring and subdividing of lands. The process has been redefined and that is what these amendments do.

My question is, Mr. Chairman, although we excluded these four communities, I just wonder if it's going to hinder them from the existing law. What I'm trying to say is that we have a process under our current legislation, prior to these amendments. The provision is there already. These amendments, to my understanding, are to clarify those definitions and to improve the current legislation. Two of these four communities happen to be in my riding, Mr. Chairman. I didn't see a problem with the way it was proposed or with the way it is being proposed now. I'm just asking the Minister why wasn't the process named in here, rather than naming those specific communities? I want to know the rationale behind this because I didn't see any problem with it before.

The reason I say that, Mr. Chairman, is that, if I'm correct, 99 per cent of the hamlets don't own land. It is all Commissioner's land. Or, even 100 per cent. I know in my communities named in this amendment, they only have Commissioner's land and a few private property owners. I think the Catholic church owns land in most communities and hamlets. Because these hamlets don't own any land, why are they being excluded? With the new rules, it would prevent the hamlet of Rae to acquire a piece of property from the church. It would limit them because the new rules won't apply to them. I'm just questioning what was the rationale for excluding those two hamlets?

Bill 4: An Act To Amend The Hamlets Act
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Member for North Slave. Mr. Arngna'naaq.