That's the reason I've been raising all of these concerns, Mr. Chairman. The act defines tobacco as: a) tobacco in any form in which it is consumed and includes snuff; (b) any substance consumed in the same manner as tobacco; or (c) any substance which is substituted for tobacco. I am having some difficulties with the definition of tobacco. Any substance which is a substitute for tobacco could be considered as tobacco. If somebody considered smoking oregano, are you going to consider that and tax them? That is not in the amendment, by the way, because we wanted to take a look at the definition of tobacco and that is what is currently stated in the bill. We have having a difficult time with the definition, which isn't being amended at this time, but it is a concern that we also raised.

Mr. Chairman, I realize what the Minister is saying. Perhaps, if the committee would consider even raising that component of it where people are exempt from applying for a permit and also bringing in more than 200 cigarettes, I think the Minister could satisfy the majority of the Members in the House to get his bill through, but I don't think it is going to pass as is with the provisions that are there. I can't support it, although it is a little improvement on the existing current bill that we have in place. I can't support it in the way the bill reads now. We have to come to some sort of compromise, although the department will still achieve their goal. When we get into details of the bill, I will move a couple of motions to that effect. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Does the committee agree that general comments are concluded and we move into clause by clause?

Bill 19. Clause 1.

Clause 2.

Clause 3.

Clause 4.

Clause 5. Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Chairman, this is a significant bill that we are dealing with. I don't recognize a quorum.

Attention has been brought to the chair that we don't have a quorum. I shall ring the bells. A quorum has been established. We ended up at Clause 5. Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated in my general comments pertaining to this bill, I have some concerns with regard to some of the sections of the bill. Section 5, Mr. Chairman, limits an individual to import cigarettes up to a maximum of 200 cigarettes before they are taxed. Anything over 200 cigarettes, they get taxed. I suggested to the Minister if that area could be raised. Rather than one carton of cigarettes be brought in, if we could raise it to perhaps five or six. I am proposing that we raise that limit to five cartons which would be equivalent to 1,000 cigarettes.

Committee Motion To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 19, Withdrawn

Mr. Chairman, I move that Clause 5 of Bill 19 be amended by deleting paragraph 9(c) and by substituting the following:

(c)a person who, not more than three times a year, brings with him or her into the territories, tobacco in an amount not exceeding 1,000 cigarettes, 250 cigars or 2,000 grams of any other form of tobacco;

and that Clause 5 of Bill 19 be amended by deleting subsection 5-1(2) and by substituting the following:

Section 2 - the section does not apply to a person who brings with him or her into the territories tobacco in an amount not exceeding 1,000 cigarettes, 250 cigars or 2,000 grams of any other form of tobacco.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. I will need a copy of the motion before I can go further. Thank you. In addition, the motion will have to be translated into the respective languages. Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Chairman, under Clause 5 of Bill 19, the paragraph that I am making reference to, I think I have erred in the typing of my motion. I will withdraw the first one and I will make another one.

---Withdrawn

Mr. Zoe, it has been suggested that perhaps a short break would be appropriate at this time to sort this matter out and give you ample time to make the

necessary corrections to your motion. We will have a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

The committee will again come to order after the short break to have the motion translated into the necessary languages, Inuktitut and French. The motion was moved by Mr. Zoe. The motion is in order. To the motion. I'm sorry, Mr. Zoe, the Member for North Slave, will again read the motion.

Thank you, Member from North Slave, Mr. Zoe. The motion is in order. Mr. Zoe.

Mr. Chairman, a number of Members raised a concern in regards to some of the clauses in the bill. I raised this one earlier on when we were in general comments. I think to compromise with the government, we're trying to support them to have this bill agreed to as amended but this motion that I have on the floor would give an individual the ability to bring five cartons into the territories, rather than one carton six times a year as proposed by the proposed legislation. What this legislation is saying is, rather than six times a year with only one carton, we allow it three times a year with five cartons. That's what the motion I have on the floor is suggesting.

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Zoe.

I'm not finished yet, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Members have heard comments from other Members in this House about the use of tobacco. None of my constituents go out six times a year down south and travel. If they do, I don't think they would take that many trips anyway. Most of my constituents travel maybe once or twice a year down south. The majority of them go to one pilgrimage to Alberta. This option would give the opportunity, if they wish, to purchase up to five cartons rather than one that is being proposed by the Minister. I would encourage Members to support this motion. Thank you.