This is page numbers 115 - 148 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 140

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My remarks weren't meant to be construed as name- calling, they were just basically my opinion. And, Mr. Chairman, before we go clause by clause, I would like to request that a quorum be present. Thank you.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I will ring the bell.

Thank you. I would like to remind Members that we get paid for a full day to attend session. There was a request to go clause by clause through Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Maintenance Act. Clause 1.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Clause 2.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 140

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 3.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 4. Mr. Dent.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister if he could advise me if there is anything similar to this clause affecting people who are legally married?

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, this act won't apply to a legally married couple who have proceeded to get a divorce. Once a divorce is finished, they won't have recourse to apply for this. But, it is possible, if they choose not to get a divorce, stay legally married but informally separate, that they may use these provisions to seek support payments if they choose not to use divorce legislation to iron out discrepancies.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Clause 4. Mr. Dent.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I don't think the Minister understood my question. As I read clause 4, this would now provide for the equivalent to a prenuptial agreement for a common-law marriage. I'm asking, does a prenuptial arrangement have any basis in law when there is a marriage that takes place?

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, the courts do recognize agreements that have been entered into.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I'm surprised by that. I know that my wife and I did have a prenuptial agreement before we got married and we were advised by our lawyer that it had no basis in law and could only be used as an instrument of evidence should it ever be brought into court. I was wondering if the Minister could advise me when the law was changed to allow prenuptial agreements to be considered legally binding?

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I will ask Janis Cooper to try to answer that question.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Cooper.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

I understood the question to mean if a common-law couple entered into an agreement, would that have legal status and I understood that it did. But, if you are talking about agreements before a legal marriage took place, that is not what I was answering. I will let Janis Cooper answer that question.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Go ahead, Janis.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Cooper

Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, I don't have the definitive answer right here. It gets a little bit complicated because if you are talking about whether a prenuptial agreement might be respected when a judge is looking to grant a divorce -- relief under a divorce, as you mentioned -- it can be used as evidence of intention or agreement that was entered about what kinds of obligations would arise. If it is anything to do with the children, the court would not look at it if it goes against the best interests of any children. That is one time when it wouldn't apply. But, the way the act is worded right now, a person has an obligation to support their spouse until they are no longer a spouse. This is the Maintenance Act.

It gets quite complicated when we are looking at different pieces of legislation that might apply because usually in a divorce situation, one would be seeking support under the Divorce Act. This act would have no more application once spouses are divorced. I'm sorry, I can't give you any further answer now on that specific point. I would have to look into it.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 4. Mr. Dent.

Bill 5: An Act To Amend The Maintenance Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, the purpose of my questioning is the Minister has said that the intent here is to provide protection to couples who are in a common-law relationship. What I'm trying to find out is what is the difference between the protection being offered common-law relationships and that provided by a marriage. My understanding is that there is no legal basis for prenuptial agreements in the contract of marriage. By putting this clause in this act, we are making a legal basis for such an agreement to have force in common-law relationships.

The concern is that if the parties enter into an prenuptial agreement which is perhaps one-sided and ill-advised, we are limiting the ability of that partner, after separation, some recourse that would otherwise not be available. My concern has a lot to do with the way this bill is being brought forward and I think it has to do with what I see as a philosophical problem with this government and the way they are approaching this.

The Minister said today that society wants people to get married. Well, I'm not sure, Mr. Chairman, that everybody in society agrees that the formality of a marriage is that important. I'm not sure he can say that a majority of people in our society think that that is that important. I don't know how you do that. I think what we should be trying to do with this legislation is to provide the same sort of protection to people who are not legally married as those who are legally married.

I think this is an important piece of legislation because common-law couples have no protection right now and therefore it's got to go ahead. What I am trying to point out is that we have made some moral judgements here in how this legislation has been brought forward. I guess I should rephrase that because I wasn't part of the decisions, but the government has made some moral judgments, philosophical judgments, in how this has been presented. I think that's evidenced when the Minister says that one party in a common-law relationship may need to know at the end of the relationship that there's a limitation; they won't be sought after at some date for support payments. I don't think that's providing the same level of protection that somebody gets in a legal contract. I think there's a concern here. Because there's absolutely no protection right now, I think this legislation has to go forward but I am pointing out, in my opinion, it's flawed, it's not as good as it should be. I'm positive that this clause being in here will have a serious impact on somebody sooner or later and personally, I don't think it needs to be there.

---Applause