Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, February 20th I will move the following motion:

I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, that this Legislative Assembly request to the Premier and Executive Council that immediate arrangements be made to transfer, on permanent loan, the entire government's collection of A Y Jackson paintings and sketches for permanent display in the Legislative Assembly building.

Thank you. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Limitation of Actions Act; Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Petroleum Products Tax Act; Bill 8, An Act to Amend the Dental Mechanics Act; Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Legal Profession Act; Bill 10, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act; Bill 11, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Judicature Act, No. 2; Bill 14, Miscellaneous Statutes Amending Act, 1994; and, Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Elections Act, with Mr. Lewis in the chair.

I will call the committee to order. We're on item 19. What would the committee like to do today? Mr. Dent.

Does everybody agree on that order?

Agreed.

---Agreed

It being 11:55, I would like to call a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

I would like to call the committee to order. We're in committee of the whole and we're on Bill 15, as was agreed to before the break. I would like to ask Mr. Pollard, who is sponsoring this bill, if he has any introductory comments.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, today I am appearing before committee of the whole to provide comments on Bill 15 which amends the act that administers elections of Members to the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Chairman, this bill is one of those bills that is not the sole responsibility of the government to sponsor. Amendments to the Elections Act fall under the responsibility of the whole of the Legislative Assembly.

The amendments proposed in this bill were recommendations for changes to the Elections Act made to the Legislative Assembly by the chief electoral officer after the 1991 general election. These recommendations were based on observations by the 24 returning officers, the NWT elections office in Yellowknife and the chief electoral officer's staff in Ottawa. The report of the chief electoral officer contained 10 recommendations in the following areas:

1. date of election;

2. enumeration;

3. voting by mail-in ballot;

4. inmate voting;

5. advance polls;

6. advance poll registration;

7. revisions of the list of electors;

8. election officials;

9. election financing; and,

10. control of elections.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to indicate the process that was followed after the receipt of the chief electoral officer's report. The recommendations were reviewed in detail by the Management and Services Board, who provided direction for the preparation of a report to Caucus which contained recommendations for changes to the act. As Members will recall, the report was presented to Caucus by the Speaker on August 19, 1994, and was agreed to with the exception of the recommendation on the implementation of a special ballot system. The results of the Caucus direction are contained in the bill before you today.

Mr. Chairman, Bill 15 contains a number of major amendments to the Elections Act and a number of consequential amendments that are required to support the major amendments. There are also a number of technical amendments relating to advance polls, election officials and the reporting of campaign financing. Mr. Chairman, as indicated, the significant amendments contained in this bill relate firstly to allowing the chief electoral officer to set the period of enumeration which could be carried out prior to the issuing of the writ of election. Secondly, Mr. Chairman, one that the Honourable Sam Gargan has raised on a number of occasions and that was also a recommendation of the chief electoral officer, relates to the permitting of inmates serving sentences of less than two years to vote in an election.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes my introductory remarks to Bill 15 and I would like to seek the assistance of witnesses in order that I can answer any questions that you may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Okay, thank you, Mr. Pollard. At the appropriate time, we will invite witnesses. The Standing Committee on Legislation has reviewed this bill. Do you have any comments, Mr. Whitford?

Standing Committee On Legislation Comments

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Pollard asked, before I recognized the Standing Committee on Legislation, if he could bring witnesses into the House. How do Members feel about that? Are there any objections? Sergeant-at-Arms, will you show the person where they have to go?

Mr. Pollard, would you introduce your witnesses, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have with me Mr. Mark Aitken on my right, legislative counsel; and, Mr. David Hamilton, Clerk of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. General comments from Members on this bill. Mr. Ballantyne.

General Comments

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This bill has seen quite a bit of discussion. We discussed it in the Management and Services Board and I, for one, support every aspect of the bill except for the one area where I, along with others, have had some real problems and that is the whole concept of inmates voting. I personally believe, as a principle, that once you have been convicted of breaking the law and you are in an institution, you have lost that right or you should lose that right. I think that's a very important fundamental part of society that has been lost. Even when I heard the acting chairman talk about the need for procedures to allow dozens of candidates to woo inmates in various institutions really gives a strange symbolic signal to the public. Are we going to allow candidates signs in the cell block or in the exercise yard? I can just see it: "Vote Joe Blow," "Inmates for Joe." I have some very serious problems with that.

One of the original concepts was that all inmates could vote and I want to put on the record that if that had been brought forward, I would have not only spoken against this bill, I would have voted against this bill. We've been told, one more time, by our legal experts, that the Charter of Rights will dictate what this freely-elected Assembly must do. We have no choice, as accountable politicians, to make any other decision but to allow these inmates to vote. It is another sign where elected officials of this country really cannot make a lot of fundamental decisions and I think it's a real shame.

So, I want to say that I'm absolutely, unequivocally against the principle of inmates voting but, because of the reality that we face -- if we don't pass this law with this clause in it, the elections can be open to legal challenge -- with a lot of reluctance and because I have no option, I will support this bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Do any other Members have general comments on Bill 15? Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Patterson, next.

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to join the chorus. I'm quite confident that my constituents believe that those who are incarcerated forfeit certain privileges in our society, including their freedom and including the right to vote. I'm shocked that the committee suggests that if the provisions of this bill are passed allowing some inmates to vote, in effect we'd be setting a precedent. As I understand the committee's report, we would be setting a precedent that would mean that a person could be elected to the Legislature while incarcerated. I believe that's what the committee has concluded. This is repugnant.

We've just recently adopted codes of conduct endorsing higher standards of conduct for our politicians and other leaders, and now it's proposed that this Legislature take action which would, in effect, put convicted, jailed inmates on the same status as any other person and allow them to run for office and that we should be making consequential amendments to allow that to happen.

Some of my constituents believe that people are not dealt with as harshly as they should be in our courts. I think there's a general view that people are not jailed when they should be jailed, or not jailed as long as they should be jailed, and now we're sending out a signal that inmates should have the same rights as ordinary citizens. Even Members of the Standing Committee on Legislation are expressing their outrage, and I note that the committee doesn't really say that they support the bill. They say that it's ready for consideration in committee of the whole.

I've always said, Mr. Chairman, that there's a Charter of Rights argument under every rock; behind every tree, you can find one. The latest is, some lawyer has said that we shouldn't be allowed to teach religion in schools any more, even if communities want it and local education authorities want it. I'm told the new Education Act is going to have to change out of our blind obeisance to this Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the legal industry that supports it.

I guess what I'd like to say here, Mr. Chairman, sensing the mood in this committee, is what if we don't pass these amendments? What's going to happen? What are the consequences of not passing these amendments? I think I can guess. I think there might be a challenge mounted by somebody, probably paid for by legal aid. But I guess my attitude, Mr. Chairman, is why cower in fear of the Charter of Rights. Why should we assume the worst: that our legislation will be challenged and our Election Act will be overturned? I would rather do what we think is right, as Mr. Ballantyne says, exercise the responsibility given to us by our constituents to do what we think they would want us to do and let the consequences fall where they may. So I'll be asking the Minister what the consequences would be. I would also like to ask the Minister of Justice would the legal aid plan fund the challenge of an inmate? Because if the public purse is not going to fund a challenge of this kind, then there might be a better chance there wouldn't be such a challenge taken.

So I'm inclined to say no to this aspect of the bill. I want to say that other aspects of the bill are progressive and necessary and will improve the election procedures and will profit from the experience in the last territorial election. I think they should be passed expeditiously.

The other ones, we should defeat or defer. I can't, in good conscience, support these amendments. I'm quite confident that I'm speaking for the clear majority of my constituents. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks, Mr. Patterson. Next is Mr. Dent.

Shame, shame.