This is page numbers 149 - 175 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 149

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Good morning. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Premier will be absent from the House today to attend a youth conference in Fort McPherson. The honourable Kelvin Ng will be absent from the House today, Monday and Tuesday to attend to long-standing commitments in his constituency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Minister's Statement 18-12(7): Firearms Control
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 149

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, on February 14th, the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada tabled new firearms legislation, Bill C-68, as he indicated he would when he announced, on November 30, 1994, the government's new firearm control program for the stated purposes of cracking down on the criminal use of firearms, by targeting firearms smuggling and by banning many firearms. The centre piece of the new program is its most controversial aspect: the creation of a national system of registration of all firearms.

Department of Justice officials have begun to analyze the bill in detail, but an early review indicates that there are few differences with the consultation package released on December 4, 1994. I had grave concerns when the consultation package was released and, if anything, the draft legislation tabled on Tuesday leaves me even more unhappy than I was a couple of months ago. While the provisions in Bill C-68 which will create serious consequences for real criminals who use firearms in the commission of offenses are certainly supportable, it has other features which the vast majority of northerners will not support.

When Minister Rock visited the Northwest Territories last October, Members of this Assembly expressed their concerns about new firearms legislation, and I and officials of the Department of Justice met with him on several occasions to educate him on the circumstances of life in the Northwest Territories. We achieved some success in demonstrating that measures designed to address the problems in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver were totally inappropriate in remote northern settlements where subsistence hunting is a way of life and firearms are a tool.

As a result, Minister Rock made adjustments in the December proposals to relax the rules on the purchase of ammunition to allow someone to buy ammunition on behalf of another person, to allow for aboriginal firearms officers in remote communities, and to adjust the requirements for training on firearms use to accommodate the special needs of native people. Our early review indicates that the improvements respecting ammunition are in the bill, but appears that the remainder of these modest improvements are not reflected in Bill C-68.

Minister Rock, against our best advice, in December and again in Bill C-68, has introduced the universal registration of firearms, which may be fine for Toronto, but is intrusive and offensive when applied in the Northwest Territories. Under these provisions, everyone will have to register every firearm by January 1, 2003, and the failure to do so could result in a criminal prosecution.

Over the past several months, officials of the Department of Justice and of the Department of Renewable Resources have worked extensively with the Department of Justice Canada representatives to try to develop a modified firearms safety training program designed specifically for NWT residents. Bill C-68 may place that work in jeopardy through its requirement that the Canadian firearms safety training course be the course used throughout the country. Further consultation will be required to determine whether there is a way to soften the blow.

Our legal advisors indicate that there is a serious question as to whether the universal registration of firearms can properly be done within the federal government's jurisdiction over the criminal law: It may infringe on the jurisdiction of provinces and territories over property and civil rights.

It also interferes with the rights of aboriginal persons to pursue traditional hunting activities, and as such may well infringe section 35 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the principles set down in the Sparrow case.

The governments of the NWT, Yukon, Alberta and Saskatchewan adopted a common position for presentation to Minister Rock at the meeting of Ministers of Justice in Victoria -- as I reported yesterday -- at the meeting in January 1995. Later today, I will be tabling that position as we gave to the Minister at that time.

At the Victoria meeting, I expressed our objections to these firearms proposals to Mr. Rock in no uncertain terms. Now that the legislation has been introduced, I will be writing to him to confirm the objections of this government. I will also be writing to Warren Allmand, the chair of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee, suggesting that the committee come to the Northwest Territories as part of its deliberations on this bill. Thank you.

Minister's Statement 18-12(7): Firearms Control
Item 2: Ministers' Statements

Page 150

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Establishment Of Ombudsman Office
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 150

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was looking forward to the report of the Standing Committee on Legislation on the office of the ombudsman. Having heard from many of the public that they feel such an office is very important and should be established; and having attended some of the Standing Committee on Legislation hearings in December where I heard presentations in favour of such an office, I expected the report would provide guidance to the government on how to proceed with establishing the office of ombudsman.

Mr. Speaker, I was very surprised and disappointed to hear in the report yesterday that the committee feels it best not to proceed right away. I know the committee gave this idea careful consideration and I understand the rationale for their decision, but, Mr. Speaker, I think the office of the ombudsman is important enough that we should proceed with establishing it concurrently with the office of Access and Privacy Commissioner.

Along with the usual duties of an ombudsman, Mr. Speaker, I would like to see the ombudsman for the NWT being given a role as children's advocate. Too often our kids are slipping through the cracks in the system and they have no one to watch out for their interests.

During the Standing Committee on Legislation hearings, I had asked the Minister of Justice if the department had examined the situation in BC where the ombudsman was charged with the role of acting as a child advocate. This is not the perfect solution, Mr. Speaker. The role of an ombudsman and child advocate is different, but in BC they found that assigning limited advocacy for children to the office of ombudsman was an effective way to start the office. They have since established a separate office called the Child, Youth and Family Advocate.

Mr. Speaker, I note the committee report does not recommend the office of the ombudsman not be established, only that it follow the establishment of the office of Access and Privacy Commissioner.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude by statement.

Establishment Of Ombudsman Office
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 150

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is requesting unanimous consent. Are there any nays? Conclude your statement, Mr. Dent.

Establishment Of Ombudsman Office
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 150

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, since it is not expected that the Access and Privacy Commissioner office will be a full-time position, I strongly urge the government to proceed with legislation as soon as possible to establish the office of the ombudsman at the same time as the Access and Privacy Commissioner and, most importantly, Mr. Speaker, to assign a child advocacy role to that office. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Establishment Of Ombudsman Office
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 150

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. Ms. Mike.

Attogoyuk School Graduation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 150

Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On December 17, 1994, I had the pleasure in joining Attogoyuk School students on their graduation ceremony. This was a very special graduation ceremony in more ways than one. Pangnirtung had the highest number of graduates in the Baffin communities. The graduating class was a total of 11. For all of the graduates, it was an especially happy occasion, and for the parents and their teachers. The ceremony was special as one of the graduates, Eena Daisy Sowdluapik, was one of the graduates who received the Governor General's award for top academics in the NWT.

Although I have already stated how proud I am of her and her graduating colleagues, I would once again like to say congratulations to Eena Daisy Sowdluapik and how proud I am of her for having top academics, and to thank her parents for the effort, encouragement and guidance they provided to their daughter.

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to share this good news from my riding with my colleagues, and to encourage the students across the NWT and their parents that hard work pays off in the end. Qujannamiik.

---Applause

Attogoyuk School Graduation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Ms. Mike. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I must admit I was taken in by Justice Minister Allan Rock when he visited and met with Caucus last fall. He is a fine-looking, smooth-talking, intent man, and he disarmed me somewhat by admitting he was from Toronto, he had no experience with firearms, and I was even more impressed to learn that he even had gone to a shooting range to find out what it's like to fire a gun.

I was very impressed with the unanimous and eloquent views of all Members -- Metis, Dene, Inuit, non-native -- in Caucus on this new firearms legislation, as expressed very forcefully to the Minister when we met with him in Caucus. I remember clearly telling him and warning him politely that even the present laws on safe storage of firearms are largely ignored and, judging from what he was proposing, there had to be a way of exempting northern hunters from the impact of this legislation, just as GHL holders are now at least exempted from the fee for applying for a firearms acquisition certificate.

"I'm hearing you," he assured me. So I was somewhat reassured. I now think that maybe this was a polite way of telling me, "I don't agree with you, but I'll hear you out." Or, "This will never fly in Toronto, but I will listen politely and even intently to what you're saying."

Now I don't know if Mr. Rock is still hearing me or listening, but I would like to tell him something again -- and I think I'm going to need more time to do so, Mr. Speaker, so I would request unanimous consent to conclude my statement, please.

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Iqaluit is requesting unanimous consent to complete his statement. Do we have any nays? Mr. Patterson, you can conclude your statement.

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I say now -- and I hope he's not only listening, but understanding -- unless this bill is substantially changed, if it's enforced in the territories; we will either have to abandon the traditional way of living on the land or we, in the territories, will become a nation of criminals. Most of the regular hunters in the territories, especially the aboriginal hunters and those who hunt with them, will be compulsorily jailed for breaching this new made-for-cities law: by loaning a firearm, by storing it in someone else's hunting shack or boat; or, by being unable to afford or understand the sophisticated registration requirements.

I would like to ask, will Mr. Rock and his government help us to build the new jails we would need in every part of the Northwest Territories to house these persons who, on first offence, will be charged by indictment and who will face a compulsory one-year jail term minimum on the second offence. Or, better still, perhaps we could ask his agreement to make the Northwest Territories one giant corrections camp for people who offend the new firearms law. Perhaps we could create an on-the-land corrections facility throughout the Northwest Territories. I hope someone is listening, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Applause

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Constituency Meetings
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For a couple of months, I used your office, Mr. Speaker, and I had a chance to contemplate my future and I did take advantage of informally contacting people in my constituency to get a feeling about what should happen and what I should do to best advance the interests of the people who I represent.

Two people said I should not seek the job as Speaker and the overwhelming number of people said what goes on over there either advances or protects my interests so we elected you to do what you think is right. In this game of politics, whatever happens is the will of the good Lord and I always believe the good Lord is right about what happens in these places. However, during my contact with several trusted people, I was asked about constituency meetings. One person -- who had never been to one, by the way -- asked me why I didn't hold constituency meetings. I said the last one I held cost me $900. It cost me $268 for a one-eighth of a page ad, and if you buy three spaces, it costs $800. The cheapest room I could get was $50. If you add coffee and doughnuts, that's another $50. In fact, when you look at the whole thing, it is about $1,000 if you want to hold a constituency meeting.

The last one I held, I was on my own. But, luckily, Ronna Bremer, who was the local newspaper lady at that time did show up. So, I sat there and we had a good, long talk and she said, look at this way, Mr. Lewis, you are helping to pay my salary. Don't you feel good that at least you keep me employed and you are doing something for the economy? Well, Mr. Speaker, we don't always have a good relationship with the press and I felt uneasy when this lady told me that I am helping to keep her alive by spending this $800 to have this meeting.

So today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to announce that I do have a phone number: 669-2292, and if there is anybody who reads Hansard and who wants to talk to me or if they want me to raise something in this House, then I would be very happy to do so. And, if there is an overwhelming demand for all those people out there who think their interests can be advanced and protected in this House, I will, in fact, listen to them and have a constituency meeting. Thank you.

---Applause

Constituency Meetings
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Opening Of New Community Hall In Nahanni Butte
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 151

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I would like to talk about the opening of the new community hall in Nahanni Butte which took place on the 6th of February. Nahanni Butte is a small

community in my constituency at the foot of the Nahanni mountain range at the mouth of the south Nahanni River. The south Nahanni River is where the Nahanni National Park is. It is home for about 80 people. For the most part, Nahanni Butte is an isolated community and accessible only by air most of the year.

The people of this community still live a very traditional lifestyle, participating in activities like hunting, trapping and fishing; living off of the land. The people of Nahanni Butte have become more involved in community development over the past few years and one of the areas identified as a community concern was the need for facilities to hold council meetings, community gatherings and other events. It is with great pride to see the community benefit from such a building. On February 6th, in cooperation with the Department Municipal and Community Affairs and the Department of Public Works and Services, it was possible to open this building.

The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. John Pollard, as well as the Honourable Don Morin, then Minister of Public Works and Services, attended this gathering. On behalf of the people of Nahanni Butte, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the two Ministers, the departments and this Legislature for helping the people of Nahanni Butte to have a new building to meet and have celebrations, like most of the other communities in the north enjoy today. Mahsi.

---Applause

Opening Of New Community Hall In Nahanni Butte
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 152

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Swearing-in Ceremony Of Governor General
Item 3: Members' Statements

February 16th, 1995

Page 152

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it was a couple of weeks ago that we had the swearing-in of the new Governor General, the Honourable Romeo LeBlanc, in Ottawa; well-attended by the Northwest Territories. I believe the Commissioner was there and others to participate in that ceremony. I've had the pleasure, over the past several years, of meeting Mr. LeBlanc on a couple of occasions in Ottawa. And, as a result of his latest appointment, I sent a congratulatory letter on behalf of my constituents.

The outgoing Governor General, the Right Honourable Ramon Hnatyshyn and Mrs. Hnatyshyn, has been a frequent visitor to the Northwest Territories. He was here on a number of occasions prior to his becoming Governor General, and certainly on two occasions during his tenure when he visited Yellowknife and other communities. It is always nice to have representatives of that high office visit this part of Canada. The motto on the coat of arms does say "from sea to sea," but in fact, Mr. Speaker, it should say from "sea to sea to sea." It is good to see that, on occasion, this high office does come to this part of the world and they are welcomed and shown the hospitality that northerners give. I certainly would extend an invitation, on behalf of my constituents at least, to the new Governor General and Mrs. LeBlanc to come to the Northwest Territories to visit us on the first occasion they can find in their busy schedule.

Mr. Speaker, it was very pleasant news when they induct such an important office and in his inaugural speech he said -- having been a correspondent over the years -- it isn't always that the media reports the good news. They are very quick to report bad news, incidents that occur: war, pestilence, crime, stuff like that. He encouraged the media to report more good news and it does happen. I think it is a good idea because people get very cynical when they read newspapers and all they see in it is very bad news. It was good news for us to hear the announcement of his appointment and the swearing-in ceremony.

One piece of good news that some northerners have told me they would like to see one of these days, would be that the Queen's representative in Canada would be an aboriginal person. We talk about the two founding races and we have had representatives from both English and French, but it is time that they look at an aboriginal person for the office of the Governor General. I just thought that I should point that out for perhaps the next time around. The Prime Minister should look around for someone, starting now, as the tenure of the Governor General is only five years.

Swearing-in Ceremony Of Governor General
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 152

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 152

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have always been amazed by the ongoing machiavellian ways of the federal Department of Justice. After years of requests from Canadians to legislate minimum sentences for those convicted of sexual offences against children; numerous requests to provide anti-stalking laws to protect women from injury and death from the hands of a bitter, twisted former boyfriend or wives; 10 years of complaints about the Young Offenders Act; demands for 10 years to change the Young Offenders Act to deal with some very violent and dangerous young offenders, we have always been told by the federal Department of Justice, by the Ontario defence lawyers that we must be fair, that everybody has rights. There is a Charter of Rights, we have no right to infringe on other people's rights, people have to be patient.

But now the federal government is finally going to act; the federal government is bringing in some very tough sentences: up to 10 years. The second offence, a minimum sentence of one year; very unusual in Canadian law. The third offence, a minimum sentence of two years minus one day. Are these tough laws against child sexual abusers? No. Are they against wife-beaters? No. Are they against violent young offenders? No. The federal government is finally going to get tough against any poor soul who forgets to register their firearm.

Now, I am sympathetic to people in large cities who are facing major crime problems. I am sympathetic to police forces who are really afraid of the proliferation of firearms. I am in favour of controlling hand guns and assault rifles, but let's get our priorities straight. We must punish real criminals, we have no right, and the government has no right, to create a whole new class of criminals. The federal government, and all governments, are having a terrible problem right now in trying to deal with our existing crime rate. I think that it is important for all of us to remember, especially the federal government, that this is not the time to create a whole new class of criminals out of honest citizens who, because they are not familiar with the law or because they don't understand it, could be actually put into jail. So, Mr. Speaker, I feel very strongly that the new firearms law has to be changed. Thank you.

Proposed Firearms Legislation
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 153

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.