This is page numbers 643 - 675 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Do Members agree with that proposal in that order of business?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Department Of Education, Culture And Employment

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

It's getting late in the afternoon, I would like to propose that we have a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

We're on page 15-13, culture and careers. Mr. Nerysoo was at the witness table when we broke. Mr. Nerysoo, would you like to have your witnesses to again join you at the table?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes, Mr. Chairman, if I might have the support of my colleagues.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Do Members agree that Mr. Nerysoo should take the witness table?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Could the Sergeant-at-Arms ask the witnesses to come in, please?

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. For the record again, could you please introduce your witnesses for me.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left is Mr. Hal Gerein, who is the deputy minister of Education, Culture and Employment. On my right is Mr. Paul Devitt, who is the director of finance and administration in the department.

Culture and Careers

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you very much. On culture and careers, we were on total O and M, $70,930 million. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, just a reminder to the Minister, yesterday he had agreed to provide some information to Members and as far as I know this has not yet been received, in my office anyway. I don't know if other Members have received it but I had hoped that we would have it in hand before continuing consideration of the budget today. Perhaps I could ask the Minister if that information will be forthcoming forthwith.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, the document is being printed at this particular time. In fact, it's being printed today. We have to have them print it. The honourable Member should know that the document is a draft document that is being discussed with the boards. There are no final decisions on all the information in it. I made a commitment to provide the committee with a document that is draft so that the Members would get some information as to the work that we are now conducting with the boards. It's now with the printers and is being printed for the Members.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the Minister's explanation and understand that it's a draft document, but still feel that it would help us in understanding what the proposals are.

Perhaps if I could move on, Mr. Chairman.

I have some questions about Arctic College courses. I know I've had some calls from constituents who are concerned that the cost of courses for Arctic College seem to be escalating quite significantly. I understand that money is tight and I understand that the college has been directed to recover more and more of their cost of operation through course fees. What concerns me is that one of the reasons for being for Arctic College was to ensure that people who might not otherwise be able to take advantage of college courses can do so. I think that a lot of people who haven't completed their education nor a lot of experience outside the territories, are uncomfortable moving to southern settings to take on courses and they are sometimes not as successful as they might be in northern ones. I thought that one of the principles that we were supposed to be supporting with Arctic College is ensuring access, in particular to our northern and aboriginal residents who have specific need of upgrading.

It's a bit of a concern to some of my constituents who see the course cost for courses like women in management set at $300 or management courses set at $450 and resolving workplace conflict courses set at $300. I think a lot of the courses that the college offers are, in fact, aimed at northern and aboriginal residents to help them improve their skills so that they can progress, in particular, to middle and senior levels of management within this government. Unless they are already working for the government, many of them would have to cover the cost of these courses on their own. I recognize that if they're already employed by the government, the cost of tuition may be picked up by the employer. I think there has to be a fine line that we walk here between maximizing revenue and ensuring that courses that might help people to progress are kept at a reasonable cost. I wonder if the Minister would care to comment on how the department reviews the setting of fees for Arctic College to ensure that we are enabling our northern and aboriginal residents to participate in college courses.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Some comments and some questions, then, Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments made by the Member. It is a concern that, as Minister, I also share. I think that we have to reflect upon the issue of cost reductions based on the fiscal situation that we're all in. In other words, we have to try to find ways in which everyone has to pick up their share of paying for the financial problems or financial situation that we're in. I think that, generally speaking, we're at a stage now where those choices have to be made. As a result of that we've had to make our recommendations to the Arctic College board knowing that there's still an increase in the financial resources that they're going to be receiving. In spite of that, I do say to the honourable Member that, generally speaking, our course costs are as much as one-quarter of what would normally be charged at other institutions in the country. That, in my view, is a reflection of our commitment that we generally take the same position that the honourable Member has stated, and that is that we have to try to make as many of the courses available as possible to our northern community and our northern students.

There are other factors. I think that our student financial assistance program takes the responsibility of paying for much of the courses. The other component is that we have in some ways made it a little easier for our students in terms of child care costs, allowing for part-time students and full-time students to access resources, and upon the direction and advice from the Members of the Assembly we've been able to open the opportunities for financial support much better than it was previously. I share the concern.

The other component that we have to continue to be concerned about are the demographics. In other words, the total population increases and what that might mean in terms of the program or the access to college programming or post-secondary programs. I don't have much to say in opposition to the honourable Member but we do have to consider the financial situation and how we can accommodate the reductions while at the same time maintaining the level and the quality of service that we are now providing. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't ensure that our colleges and our campuses have the ability to expand their programs. We've done that on a number of occasions, but at the same time we have to seriously consider this issue of centres of excellence. The standing committee talked about that matter a number of times. We may not be able to offer a program in every campus so we have to ensure that if we have a program, it is based in a location where we can offer the best resources and services. The nursing program is a good example of that. The point that was made by Mr. Patterson on environmental technology is another one. At the same time, we have to recognize the point the honourable Member made; that is, trying to deliver some of these programs as close to home as possible. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Culture and careers, $70.930 million. Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questions in this area. Mr. Chairman, the Minister is aware of the Gjoa Haven leaders' summit that was held earlier this year where Nunavut education leaders, I think, had a very positive meeting with his officials. They took the lead in organizing a conference of Nunavut education leaders to work on developing a coordinated approach for training for Nunavut and I think it is not only kindergarten to grade 12 but also post-secondary. I'm sure the Minister has the report on what a positive conference that was, eliminating duplication, ensuring coordination of all the various actors: land claims organizations, aboriginal organizations, the federal government, et cetera.

I think it was a credit to the department that the department was asked to take the lead in organizing a follow-up meeting to build on the progress of the Gjoa Haven meeting and to develop a coordinated approach. I guess that entails some financial commitment, but to me it was important that our government had the credibility and was given the opportunity to lead the initiative. It was suggested that a senior government official should chair the next meeting. In fact, I know the Minister is aware that one of the recommendations was that there be a person named to be responsible for education and training in Nunavut, preferably a new ADM who would chair that meeting and lead that initiative.

I would like to ask the Minister, is he now able to respond and indicate whether the department will be replying to the challenge, the confidence placed in them, by the Nunavut education leaders? Thank you.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the issue of structure of the department, before I respond to the issue of the ongoing process, I just want to advise the honourable Member that we are preparing plans and, hopefully, we'll have those plans completed by the end of April. Part of that is where we're going as a department in order for us to ensure we are ready for Nunavut in 1999, including the matter of the assistant deputy minister or senior staff member responsible for implementation.

I think it's necessary for us to deal with it in the context of what leadership is necessary so the organizations, including the boards of education, the Government of Canada, Nunavut Arctic College, NITC and NIC, can feel comfortable with it. We hope to have a broad response that will satisfy the direction given at the Gjoa Haven summit in January. I will indicate that we'll work on that and our plans will generally show our commitment to the implementation process, including the matter of staff.

The other component the honourable Member has mentioned with the matter of Nunavut education leaders, I want to say one thing: while that meeting took place in January in Gjoa Haven, let's not forget that the process began in the Keewatin a little over a year ago when the divisional boards of education brought together NITC and NIC in Rankin Inlet to begin the process of discussion about who would be responsible for the delivery of educational programming and post-secondary training. We were involved then and I can advise the honourable Member that we will continue to be involved.

I think what we need to do is get a sense of who will be involved, as was the case with the Nunavut leaders conference but we also need to have a plan of action and part of that will be completed, as I indicated, at the end of April. We're looking at a potential education leadership meeting taking place in May of this year. That will depend on whether or not we can get all the parties together, ensuring all parties are happy and have the time and ability to participate. We will set a date after April 31st and try to work around that. I'm not sure if there's anything else I can offer at this particular juncture.

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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Well, I would just like to say I'm encouraged by the Minister's response. I think that there's a sense of urgency on the part of the people planning for Nunavut. I'm sure the Minister has sensed that. I know he was able to attend the meeting last year in the Keewatin, for which we were grateful. I would just like to say, in closing, that I'm fairly confident that the participants of that meeting wanted to get together again before the summer. May would be soon enough, so I'm pleased with that response and I was pleased with the senior participation of the department at that meeting. We'll look forward to carrying on that work. I'll set this issue aside for now.

But there's one other thing I would like to say. I don't know what reorganization would be required on the Minister's part to name a senior official or to create an ADM position, but I think it would be very useful if all of those various agencies -- and there's a lot of them with a lot of money -- had one window through which they could interact with the government, one individual.

Mr. Chairman, if I may, I have some other questions relating to the college. None of this will surprise the Minister, I'm sure. I would like to ask about trades training. First of all, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister, was direction given by the former president of Arctic College and is the direction still in place, that all credited trades apprenticeship training that takes place in the Northwest Territories shall take place at the magnificent facilities of the trades complex in Thebacha campus of Aurora College? Is that the direction; that that is where people should go, if they're taking this training in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.