Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The differences are based on the formula. I believe the amount is about 45 per cent and 55 per cent and it is also a reflection of the total student population; in other words, the total amounts.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the college funding allocation system is the name of that formula, I think. Am I correct that that formula does not actually take into account person years but rather it is a formula for allocating dollars?

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that's correct. In fact, the honourable Member will know that that is the formula we generally follow for the division of resources for school boards as well. It's the same approach and they determine the allocation of those resources to the programs, campuses, and adult centres.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I understand there are about 250 nursing jobs in Nunavut. We only have, I believe, 10 students in the nursing training program offered out of Yellowknife from Nunavut. I would like to ask the Minister whether he believes that perhaps in future, nursing training could be offered in Nunavut to help target northern residents taking some of those 250 jobs. It's a tremendous opportunity I would think, a tremendous

employment opportunity for Nunavut residents. We're only attracting 10 students to the Yellowknife program; wouldn't we have more success getting more students if we offered a program in Nunavut? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Generally speaking, I would say that everyone would probably agree that if it's possible to deliver the program then we would be able to do it. However, fiscally, we have to deal with the whole issue of priority occupations and I think the one right now that is a serious concern and a priority in Nunavut Arctic College seems to be the trades. We have to focus, at least initially, on that particular matter.

The other thing that we should be cognizant of is the labour market requirements because sometimes we could get into training programs that do not respond to labour market situations. The honourable Member has pointed out one where jobs could be made available, and I'm not going to say that we're not going to respond but I think our experience over the past several years will give us some indication as to how we might be able to do a better job in responding to the Nunavut client. Whether or not it's an issue of creating another program, whether or not it's just simply an access year or whether or not it's a matter of retaining the program here in Yellowknife and, again, doing what we've done in other programs; that is, molded to respond to the needs of the Nunavut communities. That's an issue that needs to be reviewed in the context of our college strategy. The other thing that I pointed out earlier is that we should not lose sight of the potential for creating programs of excellence in each college and, for that matter, in each campus if that's possible. I think there is some expertise that could be better left in one particular location and have people move to those programs. That has to be considered.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Is the Minister aware that the Baffin health board is working with the Dalhousie outpost nursing program to develop a nursing training capacity in the Baffin? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can say that we are aware of it but I would also be cautious in terms of -- and my honourable colleague has made mention of this a number of times -- if we have the expertise and we've had the experience in Arctic College delivering programs, it just doesn't make sense for us to introduce a new institution in the process. If we have the program available, it might be better for us to look at the expansion of the program rather than introducing a new one. We could redesign it so that it meets the needs of the client that we have to serve. I think the northern experience is a good one to consider.

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Well, I couldn't agree with the Minister's sentiments more and I think that unless there is a program designed or the program is modified, then you're going to have organizations like Dalhousie and the Baffin health board saying well, we'll have to do it ourselves. I would strongly recommend that the Minister get a step ahead of the process and encourage the Arctic College to reach out to meet these needs. He's answered my question as I'd hoped.

Mr. Chairman, when I talk to people from the Arctic College in Nunavut, they tell me that they're facing financial restraint and cutbacks and they're going to have to make do with less funding than last year. I'd like to ask the Minister, in a global sense, looking at his budget, have the K-12 programs and the school programs been given more of a priority than college funding as far as growth is concerned in this budget? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I can't say that. I can say to the Members that there are priority programs in which we've added more resources. There have been reductions, you might say, in the whole area of administration. The overall increase in our budget generally is about $4. For instance, in the case of SFA, it's $3 million. It really depends on how people view this. The other component that is still an unknown factor is the whole issue of social assistance and the use of those resources for post-secondary education. The other thing is the, I believe, $2 million into northern skill development, those are the kinds of things if you start reviewing them, whether or not there's a reduction, an overall increase in the actual assistance to students and therefore better access for students because those dollars are also used for paying for the cost of programs and services that are being offered at the college. That is the kind of stuff that, unless you do an overall picture, becomes very difficult.

I think some of the concerns that we all have is really the uncertainty right now about what will happen with regard to income support programs across the country. I'm the Minister responsible for the general discussions that will go on with the federal government and I'm hoping that we can meet very shortly with Mr. Axworthy so that we can have these general discussions so that we get some sense of security about those resources.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Before I recognize Mr. Patterson again, is there any other Member who would like to get in on comments or questions on culture and careers, total O and M, $70.93 million? Okay, Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I won't be much longer. Mr. Chairman, the Minister mentioned investing in people and I know there's a healthy $6 million budgeted in these main estimates for us. I wish him and his officials every success. I suspect that weaning off welfare is going to be a real tough challenge because looking at the program in my constituency -- and there's been an excellent instructor located to run that program and I have great confidence in the instructor -- but looking at the students I see that they bring with them to class all kinds of problems that are beyond the control of the instructor. Whether it's family violence, other

personal needs -- they're often single parents; sometimes there are personal problems including alcohol and drug treatment that are getting in the way of training for employment.

I would like to ask the Minister, I know that the department boldly established a number of programs this year in a number of communities. I think it was done, I would say, boldly, but some might say in a rush. Have you had a chance to assess yet how these programs are working? How has the attrition rate been? Have you done an evaluation? Have you got some successes where you can say we've got some people now who are motivated or who are on their way out of the cycle? I would just like to get a feeling from the Minister. We're putting a lot of money into this, everyone wants it to work, I want it to work, but is it going to work? What's the post-mortem on the money you've spent this current fiscal year? Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have not concluded any assessments of those projects that are being funded at this particular juncture. Just so the honourable Member is aware, we have not spent as much money as probably we would have liked to in as many communities as possible. What we are finding probably is that we still need to do a lot of work with our communities and advise them about the program and opportunities, and to make recommendations of some of the initiatives that might be considered.

I can say that in one particular case, in Hay River the response to the adult training component is excellent in terms of its results. In fact, Mr. Chairman, interestingly, they've sent me some letters thanking me for the initiative that I've undertaken and, in fact, students are recommending that we continue with the initiative.

I think where we are starting to see returns on investments is in the whole area of building and learning. I think there we see people who are actually in the trades area actually involved in government capital project and us, as a government, using those monies to train people in the trades helper area, I think we are seeing the results now. There are some situations where I can probably point to a community like Aklavik where we started out with a suggestion of about seven, and we ended up with 17 people in the project. Coppermine was successful. So we're now starting to see certification of individuals who are older in some cases, have less education but are either going to school or maintaining their interests in the trades.

I can't give a conclusive indication to the honourable Member on the investing in people; I think that's going to take us some time, particularly since we don't have as many of the communities as we would like to have involved in that. But it really focuses on things like skill development, life skills, adult basic education. Once we get people in those areas, I think you'll see them taking on other opportunities.

Thanks, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Chairman, one of the problems that I saw when I looked at the investing in people program in my community was that where students had personal needs that had to be addressed -- such as counselling, such as child care problems, sometimes things as simple as finding a way to get to school and lacking the funds for transportation, that sort of thing -- they went to the local officials in the Department of Health and Social Services who said, basically, we haven't time to give the one-on-one counselling and support that's sometimes required to give these people in school. We don't have the mandate, we're busy with our regular caseload, and there didn't seem to be a coordinated approach between the two departments -- I'm referring to Health and Social Services and the college and the Department of ECE.

I know Health and Social Services is undergoing changes, amalgamating and it's no surprise to me that they have other things on their mind right now. I would like to ask the Minister if he agrees that personal support and support from Health and Social Services and the resources of that department may be critical with many of these students, to allow them to cope with the added demands of going to school, looking after their children, surviving in this program, and whether or not the department will look at better linkages with Health and Social Services so these needs can be addressed to keep these people in school. Thank you.