This is page numbers 677 - 710 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Hon. Nellie Cournoyea, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Hon. Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Ms. Mike, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Patterson, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 677

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Good afternoon. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to make a short statement today to update Members on the northern manufacturing initiative. This initiative was started by the Housing Corporation to create employment opportunities and to encourage the development of manufacturing businesses in the NWT.

Through this initiative, the Housing Corporation has broken down large material tender packages to encourage northern manufacturers to bid. In 1993-94, the corporation entered into multi-year contracts with northern firms to manufacture specific housing materials. In addition to these long-term contracts, the corporation has listed which materials must be manufactured in the NWT in their contracts.

The Housing Corporation spends approximately $17 million each year on construction materials. Although virtually all materials for corporation houses are purchased from northern suppliers, most of these products have been manufactured in the south.

---Applause

For the 1995-96 construction year we expect that figure to rise to over 25 per cent. This represents more than $4 million in expenditures going back into our northern economy.

The following housing materials are being manufactured in the Northwest Territories: windows; doors; kitchen and bathroom cabinets; fuel tanks and fuel tank stands; dimensional lumber; foundation screwjacks; roof trusses; tubs and tub surrounds; and, sewage and water tanks.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that effective July 1st of this year, all government staff at Sir John Franklin High School in Yellowknife will be transferred to Yellowknife Education District No. 1.

An Hon. Member

Bravo.

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Agreements have been negotiated with the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and the Union of Northern Workers.

In addition to the transfer of staff, procedures have been agreed upon for the transfer of the capital facilities.

Mr. Speaker, this transfer finally brings into reality the long standing vision of Education District No. 1 to have complete control of the public education system in Yellowknife from kindergarten through grade 12.

I would like to publicly recognize and thank the Northwest Territories Teachers' Association, the Union of Northern Workers and the staff and board of Yellowknife Education District No. 1 for their hard work and commitment to finalizing this agreement.

In addition, Mr. Speaker, I do want to thank my colleague, Mr. Pollard, and the staff in FMBS and the Department of Education for their work.

Mr. Speaker, there will be a ceremony to mark the transfer of these responsibilities to Yellowknife Education District No. 1 tomorrow at 12:30 p.m. at Sir John Franklin High School. I would like to invite all Members of this House to attend the ceremony. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 338-12(7): Status Of Economic Rents For GNWT Parking
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 678

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Allooloo on March 28, 1995, status of rents charged for GNWT parking.

The Department of Public Works and Services studied the cost and provision of parking spaces for government staff in Yellowknife. The charge to staff for a parking space reflects recovery of electrical, lot maintenance and lease costs. The user-pay principle is being followed. The rates are reviewed annually to reflect adjustments to costs. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 338-12(7): Status Of Economic Rents For GNWT Parking
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 233-12(7): Summer Student Employment Program
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 678

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Allooloo on March 3, 1995. It concerns summer student employment program.

Mr. Speaker, the government hires students to fill casual positions over the summer period. The terms and conditions of employment for casual employees are established in the collective agreement between the government and the Union of Northern Workers. During recent collective bargaining, the government was unable to negotiate separate casual wage rates for summer students. The result is that when the government hires students to fill casual jobs, it must pay the negotiated rate associated with the nature of the work being performed. The government cannot adjust the rate of pay based on who is doing the work.

The government must also abide by collective agreement requirements on contracting out work. Employing students for government work through contracts with other agencies may constitute contracting out.

Mr. Speaker, the government is continuing to explore options to resolve this issue. Thank you.

Return To Question 233-12(7): Summer Student Employment Program
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 678

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Are there any further returns? Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Ningark.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to recognize a very good friend of mine, SAO from Pelly Bay, Elwood Johnston who came to Pelly Bay for the Hamlet recovery of programs about two or three years ago. He recovered the financial situation within record time. Elwood Johnston.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Patterson.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I don't recognize Mr. Ben McDonald of the UNW, he is not in his usual chair, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Whitford.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Jim Peterson. Mr. Peterson is the principal of the J-Group, a survival training unit, and also proprietor of Point Lake Outfitters, small game outfitting. Mr. Peterson.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Ms. Cournoyea.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the House recognize the mayor of Tuktoyaktuk, Mr. Eddie Dillon.

---Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, I request unanimous consent to return to Members' statements.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Member for Yellowknife North is requesting unanimous consent to return to item 3, Members' statement. Are there any nays?

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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An Hon. Member

Agreed.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

There are no nays. Go ahead, Mr. Ballantyne.

Negative Impact Of Low-water Surcharge
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 678

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to talk about the negative impact of the low-water surcharge on one of my constituents, Mr. Albert Wilson, and his wife Mary Wilson. Mr. Wilson is 74 years old, his wife Mary is 75 years old. Mr. Wilson is totally disabled. He has to use oxygen equipment 24 hours a day.

Before the low-water surcharge, the highest he ever paid in his small house was $162 for power. He has paid this month, $184.50 for power. The cost of using his oxygen system is $50 a month. I and others have asked this government for support to give Mr. Wilson some assistance for the use of his oxygen equipment. It hasn't been forthcoming; I will ask again, I will follow up on this issue.

But, Mr. Speaker, the issue here is that many of these increases are hitting the people least able to afford them. I really hope that this government takes into consideration there are people out there who cannot afford to pay these exorbitant increases in power rates and need some assistance for legitimate medical problems. I hope that the government, who supported the increase, and supported the low-water surcharge at the same time that they supported those increases will also look to giving the necessary support to those people who cannot afford these increases. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Negative Impact Of Low-water Surcharge
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Back to Mr. Patterson.

Meeting Re Harbour Improvements In Iqaluit
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, two weeks ago, I attended a meeting with representatives from the town of Iqaluit and the Amarok HTA with government officials to discuss harbour improvements planned over the next three years in Iqaluit. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Honourable John Todd, Minister of Transportation, for making...

---Applause

...two of his very capable officials who are engineers available to assist the community in discussing the various options that are before them. I was pleased that at that meeting it was announced by those officials that increased authority over these community works would be transferred to the region, so that the projects could be managed closer to home, as it were. I have every confidence in the regional superintendent of the Department of Transportation in the Baffin, Mr. Methusalah Kunuk and his staff. I welcome he and his officials being given more responsibility to oversee this very important work.

I would also like to give credit to Coast Guard Canada, whose acting director of northern operations, Mr. Ian Marr attended the meeting, along with one of his officials. Mr. Marr gave the community an indication of changes that have taken place in Coast Guard Canada. One of the changes that we welcome is that there is now a one-window approach for northern operations for the Coast Guard. So the various functions that have been split throughout Coast Guard Canada and throughout several regions will now be dealt with under Mr. Marr's office, which is welcome.

We also had some useful discussions with Coast Guard Canada about improving local employment and possibly obtaining a harbour master in Iqaluit and encouraging a local person to obtain those qualifications.

So it was a good meeting, Mr. Speaker. We look forward to close cooperation with local people and government officials to make this project a success. Thank you very much.

Meeting Re Harbour Improvements In Iqaluit
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Removal Of Fire Crews From NWT Airports
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I am raising a concern of constituents on an issue that hasn't yet affected Yellowknife, but if the desires of Transport Canada are fulfilled, it will. By April 1st in some of the communities in the north, they are going to be without firefighters at the airports. They are pulling the firefighters out of the communities like Hay River, Fort Smith, Fort Simpson, Resolute Bay and Inuvik. The main reason for that is a change in technology as well as a cost-reduction measure. This is, Mr. Speaker, in many people's opinion, a dangerous move to make by Transport Canada. I know that we will be taking over these airports by a certain time and it is unfortunate that this is being done before we become more involved.

Many people feel that this is a bad and dangerous move that will result in the deaths or serious injuries of many people in the event of an air crash or a fire at an airport involving aircraft. It is probably one of the more dangerous places to be, given the numbers of planes in the area and the fuel in those areas. Like it or not, Mr. Speaker, it is a dangerous move to be making. It is like life insurance. You only need it once. You buy it for one reason and you only use it once. If we ever need fire crews in an area and it is used once to save lives, then I think the money is well spent and we should take time to encourage the federal Transportation board to reconsider these moves. Certainly, when our government takes over the airports, I would encourage them to reconsider the removal of firefighters from airports. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Removal Of Fire Crews From NWT Airports
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

Some Hon. Members

Hear, hear.

Removal Of Fire Crews From NWT Airports
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Passing Of Fort Simpson Elder
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 679

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to rise in the House and pay my respects to elders in our communities. I say this because on Monday, we buried one of our elders in Fort Simpson, Albert Horesay. He was 83 years old. He was a very much respected elder in our community. He has a large family and there are many people who came from very far to attend this man's funeral.

I just wanted to say that our elders are a treasure to us. They hold history for our people in the north. They also hold our languages. As we lose our elders, we also lose a little bit of our history and tradition. As a Dene person, everything is oral: our language; our history; our stories; and, our legends. I know the government has provided some funding programs to try to get people in communities to capture some of our oral history and legends. However, as each of our elders passes on, we lose a little bit more. For that, I just wanted to say that we have to do more to try to retain our culture and our language.

In Fort Simpson, I was pleased to find out that the band, through the resource management group, are trying to recapture a lot of the oral history and traditional knowledge that exists there. In all the other communities, there is a lot of knowledge about the land, the history and how the north has evolved from the perspective of the Dene. I would just like to say that it is a little bit that the government is doing to help the people and I really appreciate that.

(Translation) One of our elders has died. Many people went there and prayed for him. We depend on them. We have to try to preserve our languages and our traditional way of living. Mr. Speaker, the time has run out for me.

Passing Of Fort Simpson Elder
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

(Translation) Jim wants more time. Are there any nays? Continue, Mr. Antoine.

Passing Of Fort Simpson Elder
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

(Translation) Mahsi. What I am saying here is a very important person, our elders...A lot of children are speaking English, so they are losing a lot of the traditional ways. So we need to preserve our languages and our Dene way of living. We have to preserve how we have lived, our history. The government is helping us with money for this. That is why I am thankful. Maybe then a lot of people will learn the languages and preserve the traditional ways. When the elders talk, we learn from them. So we depend on them. I just wanted to say something about this elder who passed away. Thank you.

Passing Of Fort Simpson Elder
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. I also would like to apologize for using your first name rather than your last. Item 3, Members' statements. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

GNWT's Use Of Employees' Airline Travel Points
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government and Legislative Assembly spends millions of dollars on travel, whether it's travel used for vacation travel allowance, medical travel or duty travel.

Mr. Speaker, the airline tickets purchased by this government allow for the ticket-holders to take advantage of receiving Canadian Plus points through Canadian Airlines, or Aeroplan points through Air Canada.

Mr. Speaker, currently, the federal government does not allow for such a perk, and many other governments across the country refrain from allowing individuals to take advantage of the access to travel points. Mr. Speaker, however, the federal government, I understand, allows each department to obtain a corporate card for their holder on behalf of the appropriate department which these funds come out of. Therefore, if points are claimed, they go back to the appropriate department. The theory is that when the department has enough points on their corporate account, they can save funds and obtain a ticket for purposes of duty travel which then results in a saving of spending unnecessary funds.

Mr. Speaker, this makes good fiscal and responsible financial spending on the federal government's part. However, the practice is not considered by our current government and a policy at this time is not even being developed; although, Mr. Speaker, I think it is time for this government to consider development of such a policy and also this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, we are at a time where our fiscal dollars must be used in the most efficient manner and this will result in a phenomenal savings which will be achieved by departments if a policy were developed to allow for creation of a corporate departmental account for travel purposes.

Mr. Speaker, I intend to bring forth a motion to address this issue so each department would be allowed to create a corporate departmental account for travel purposes which would be used as a measure for saving dollars for our government overall. Thank you.

GNWT's Use Of Employees' Airline Travel Points
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudlat.

Construction Of Sanikiluaq Community Centre
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a concern about the community centre in Sanikiluaq. As you are probably aware, the centre is currently shut down. We understand that it was over budget and was not able to be completed. I understand they are doing an investigation or a survey to see if they can continue construction of the centre. During oral question period, I will be posing a question to the Minister about the community centre in Sanikiluaq. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Construction Of Sanikiluaq Community Centre
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Pudluk.

Confusion Between Mr. Pudlat And Mr. Pudluk
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) This issue I am about to raise is not a new one. It regards the error of the spelling of my last name and it concerns correspondence from communities. This error has occurred a number of times now. Due to the misspelling of my last name, I receive mail that doesn't belong to me. Recently, I received a letter from the government that did not come from my constituency whatsoever, it came from another MLA's constituency, but it was delivered to me.

In situations like this, the Executive Council should take note when signing their letters and check the addresses. My fellow colleague received confidential mail which was inadvertently directed to myself. This could be of a confidential nature and I'm not interested in finding out about his personal or confidential correspondence. The Executive Council and the government should be more cautious and I urge them to be more cautious to ensure that errors of this nature do not continue because I've been receiving mail that does not belong to me, although they are addressed to myself. I inadvertently read this mail and the constituency's concerns weren't addressed to myself in which case they shouldn't have been given to me.

People might forget who I am and where I'm from and who I represent. Maybe people in the government are forgetting which riding I represent, so this is my reminder, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Confusion Between Mr. Pudlat And Mr. Pudluk
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 680

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Member's Statement Paying Tribute To Susan Aglukark
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 681

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in the House today to bring greetings from the Northwest Territories winner of two Juno awards, Susan Aglukark.

---Applause

Susan asked that I convey to the House her comments on winning two Juno awards on March 26th. She stated to me, "I am honoured to have received such distinguished awards, not only for myself but for the people of the Northwest Territories."

Mr. Speaker, Susan is only 28 years old. Although she lived throughout the Northwest Territories for the first 12 years of her life as her father is a Pentecostal minister, her family eventually settled in Arviat, Northwest Territories. After completing high school, Susan was employed as an interpreter with DIAND and then as an executive assistant for the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada.

It has been only three short years since Susan Aglukark gave her first, live public performance at a festival in her home town of Arviat. Since then, Susan has recorded several tapes and CDs. She has appeared on a half a dozen prime time television shows and she has starred in music videos. Canada's media has highlighted her fast-rising career. Susan has had the opportunity to entertain Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth, on two occasions, as well as Prime Ministers Mulroney and Chretien.

This week, Susan added two Juno awards to her ever-growing award collection which includes the first ever aboriginal achievement award in the arts and entertainment field, and the Canadian Country Music Association's Vista Rising Star award.

Susan Aglukark is known both for the quality of her talent and the wholesome values and lifestyle she exhibits. Her example is in sharp contrast to those of other entertainers. The youth of the Northwest Territories need this kind of role model to look up to and to emulate.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish Susan every future success and to note that her success as an NWT Inuit youth should be celebrated by all of us. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Member's Statement Paying Tribute To Susan Aglukark
Revert To Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 681

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Before we go back to oral questions, I wanted to say that when it came to item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery, Mr. Patterson was out of order when he said that a certain individual wasn't in the gallery. So I just wanted to say that for the record. And perhaps maybe the individual wasn't in the gallery for that reason. I want to remind the Members that we do have rules here for a reason, and to follow them. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Monday, March 27, 1995, I directed a question to the honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment and he responded to me, and I quote from the unedited Hansard: "There are a number of options we're looking at." Mr. Speaker, I should have made a supplementary question on this matter but at this point in time, I would like to ask the Minister, what are the options they are looking at? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. We have to review whether or not there are enough resources available under the infrastructure program, whether there was another option to use present capital resources, or the possibility of finding anyone who could provide the additional financial resources. I want to advise the honourable Member that the community he is referring to has used all of their infrastructure program dollars except for $592. I think what we need to do now is reflect on how we can access, if possible, future resources that might be used for this purpose.

Return To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Kitikmeot board of education wants the gymnasium attachment to the Pelly Bay school. The community education council of the hamlet of Pelly Bay wants the gymnasium attachment and the hamlet council wants it too. This is something that all parties have been trying to request of the government. My supplementary question to the honourable Minister is, when will the honourable Minister assure the Kitikmeot board of education, the hamlet council of Pelly Bay and the community education council when he will be able to help the community build the much needed infrastructure? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can't advise the honourable Member that I'm going to do it immediately. I think what we can do, at least on an interim basis, is to ensure it is part of the capital planning process for this upcoming year and part of the discussions we hold with the Kitikmeot region. Whether or not the community of Pelly Bay is serious about this will affect whether we will allocate the infrastructure dollars that might be available for this purpose. The fact is, they used last year's capital dollars to add an extension to the hamlet office, I believe. In that sense, I hope we can ensure the municipality and hamlet take their position seriously and we'll certainly try to work with them to find a way to address this matter.

Further Return To Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Question 343-12(7): Clarification Re Funding Options For Pelly Bay School Gymnasium
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 681

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rose today under Members' statements to indicate that I will be addressing to the appropriate Minister questions about the Sanikiluaq community centre, which is now too expensive and has been closed. This centre is needed. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. There was supposed to be an inspection done in the community on what needs to be fixed regarding the community hall. I would like the Minister to tell me the status of the project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Ng.

Return To Question 344-12(7): Status Of Sanikiluaq Community Hall Project
Question 344-12(7): Status Of Sanikiluaq Community Hall Project
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the Member is referring to the existing community hall, if I'm correct. I understand the community hall is substandard and undersized in its current state. I, at this time, don't know whether an inspection has been done on that particular facility but I will have the appropriate staff from my department or ask the Public Works and Services staff to check into the matter and get back to the Member on that. Thank you.

Return To Question 344-12(7): Status Of Sanikiluaq Community Hall Project
Question 344-12(7): Status Of Sanikiluaq Community Hall Project
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, I understand that Transport Canada is in the process of considering changes to the criteria for emergency response services, principally firefighting, for airports in Canada and that, particularly, they are considering factoring in requiring a minimum number of passenger movements per year before an ERS capability is funded. The present criteria simply requires so many movements of aircraft; 39 metres or longer per day. The new requirement would look at passenger volume, which would discriminate against airports like the one in my constituency which has the aircraft volume but not necessarily the same passenger volume as larger centres with fuller planes.

I would like to ask the Minister if he is aware of this review of the ERS criteria under way in Transport Canada. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I am aware of the review that is taking place. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, the changes that Mr. Patterson is alluding to are in the process now of being implemented, effective September/October of 1995. We are, however, working closely with Transport Canada through the negotiation of the Arctic airports -- and that is primarily what Mr. Patterson is talking about -- to secure a reasonable level of emergency response services. That's still under discussion. Thank you.

Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Speaker, the Iqaluit airport at present has a full ERS capacity and includes five local firefighter positions. I'd like to ask the Minister, is it his understanding that when Arctic A airports are transferred to the Northwest Territories, these five firefighter positions in Iqaluit will be funded by the Government of Canada under this transfer agreement? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

John Todd Keewatin Central

Let me answer the question this way: the regulations, as they relate to the old policy, are being reviewed, as I said, with the transfer and is being driven by the federal government. I'm optimistic that in the base funding arrangement, we will be able to, hopefully, ensure the ERS services that are currently provided at the Iqaluit airport remain. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to have these assurances. I'd like to ask the Minister how we might be informed of the progress of discussions on this very critical issue. I'm thinking of people who work in the ERS services at the moment who are wondering about their futures, I'm thinking about concerns from communities of the kind Mr. Whitford mentioned. How are we going to be kept informed as to what's going on? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 682

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe I said I was optimistic. I wouldn't want to be too definitive because negotiations are currently under way. We've concluded the basic framework for a transfer. We're now working out the finer details. And I do respect the honourable Member's concern and his constituency's concern; it's the same as the other six or seven or eight Arctic airports that are going to be transferred. I believe I did say earlier on in this session or the session before that I don't know whether it was just good luck or good management that we've been able to get the kinds of resources that we're getting in this transfer, because I think if we started it today we wouldn't get those resources because there have been new initiatives taken by the feds to cut back.

I'm not trying to evade the question, all I'm saying is we're currently negotiating it. We're trying to get to the details.

Obviously, we want to protect the current level of services -- and I've said that publicly -- and ERS is part of the quality of service that we provide to Arctic A airports. The only thing I could do to assure the honourable Member is to advise him on an individual basis or through the House as to the progress of the negotiations. I'm optimistic, as I said, that we will be able to find the baseline funding to maintain the current level of services that we're providing in those Arctic A airports. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm happy with that undertaking. Maybe I could just ask the Minister since this is a matter of pressing concern, would the Minister undertake to provide the House with a detailed status report, particularly on the ERS issue, before this House recesses in the current session. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

John Todd Keewatin Central

(Microphone turned off)...provide the information we have. I should clarify where we currently sit. If my memory serves me correctly, the regulations or the criteria for an ERS are currently under review. Originally, it was driven by the federal government, we're not involved in it.

Transport Canada, who are reviewing these regulations because of the desire on their part to cut costs, is in a bit of a difference of opinion with the industry. So it's still in a state of flux. I could provide the honourable Member, to the best of my ability, what we have right now. But we're far from the final stage of settling what the criteria is for the kind of services that are required in Arctic A airports. I don't know if that answered his question, but that's kind of where we're at right now. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Question 345-12(7): Transport Canada Review Of Emergency Response Systems
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Pudluk.

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is directed to the Minister of Education. There's a large concern at the Nanisivik Education Council because they have been informed that they currently have too many teachers in that community and the number of students have been reduced. They are aware that in the new fiscal year the number of students will be increasing. Is the Minister having discussions with the divisional board of education in the Baffin region to address the concerns of the Nanisivik Education Council regarding the future of the number of positions for teachers in that community? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just for the information of the honourable Member, I have been advised of the issue. There was a letter sent to me with regard to this particular matter. However, the responsibility of assigning teachers rests with the divisional board of education. I will apprise them of the concern the honourable Member is raising, but as a department we do not get involved in the assignment of teachers in terms of the location or the numbers in communities. That is strictly done by the board and the representatives on that particular board. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Pudluk.

Supplementary To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

Ludy Pudluk High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a supplementary to my question. How are you going to respond to the letter you say that you have received regarding the concerns that are being raised in Nanisivik? Will you just pass it on to the Baffin Divisional Board of Education, or are you going to give a response directly to the local education council in Nanisivik. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I will do is respond advising the CEC of the present responsibilities the department holds in terms of me, as Minister; and, secondly, the responsibilities that are held by the board. This Assembly and previous Minister, including myself, have tried to move away from the day-to-day business operational affairs of schools and have tried to put it in the hands of the communities. I think the debate that the honourable Member is raising is one that should occur within the divisional board and the arguments put forward because, in my view, it's the responsibility of the board to make the final determinations.

Further Return To Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Question 346-12(7): Concern Re Reduction Of Teaching Positions In Nanisivik
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 683

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Renewable Resources. Mr. Speaker, it wasn't that long ago that the whole issue of waters flowing into the Northwest Territories from Alberta was a big environmental issue facing us all. We spent a lot of time and a lot of effort worrying about Daishowa and worrying about pulp mills being built in Alberta and the effect that that would have on our water basin here in the Northwest Territories. It seems that that environmental issue is no longer on the front pages. People seem to be concerned about diamonds today and they don't really have time to deal with more than one issue, perhaps.

What has actually happened with the trans-boundary water agreements? I'll ask that first. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Mackenzie River Basin master agreement, which I believe the Member is referring to, came to my office as an agreement which would be signed by all jurisdictions affected by the Mackenzie River. I had passed on the agreement to some of the Members who had raised concerns about it, and asked for their opinion. I received positive remarks on the agreement. I also wrote to the chief of the Dene national office, Mr. Erasmus. And on August 11, 1994, I signed the master agreement and passed it on back to the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs.

I haven't heard anything more recently from the Minister, but I'm willing to find out exactly where that stands. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you. When the Minister receives that information, I'm sure Members in this House would like to hear the ultimate disposition of this matter.

My supplementary question to the Minister; as part and parcel of the issue of effluents in the Mackenzie River system, there was a commitment by the federal government, I believe that our government was involved, to have a fairly comprehensive monitoring system put into place. I wonder if the Minister could inform this House as to what are the results of that monitoring.

Supplementary To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The responsibility of water quality monitoring still lies with the three federal departments: Indian and Northern Affairs, Environment Canada; and, Fisheries and Oceans. I believe they are still monitoring the quality of water within our jurisdiction in the Northwest Territories. I have not received a recent update about the quality of water in the Northwest Territories, but I will find out and get back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Question 347-12(7): Status Of Trans-boundary Water Agreements
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I asked the Minister of Justice a question about the principles of justice agreement for crime victims. I was very surprised when he responded to me and I quote from page 1544 of unedited Hansard, he noted that we have lots of principles that we believe in, "Members know that we are all committed 100 per cent to the principle of aboriginal languages and we have, after years of wrangling on it, decided to put it to legislation, making financial commitments. Even those principles are being eroded at this time by the federal government reducing their financial commitments to them."

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier, is this, in fact, the case that the principles enshrined in our official languages legislation are being eroded, they are not being honoured by this government.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe that as the limited financial resources are available, many of the programs and services that we would like to take part in, we may not be able to do. However, to the best of our ability, with the resources that we have from the language agreement as well as other resources that we put toward language development and enhancement, what we are attempting to do is to make sure that those dollars work in a way so as not to erode the principles that we ascribe to. Thank you.

Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary just for the record and to be very clear, will the Minister confirm that we are intending in the next year to live up to the legal requirements of the Official Languages Act.

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, most definitely.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary to the same Minister. In the Minister of Justice's reply yesterday he further went on to say that: "All commitments made by this government will have to be reviewed because I do not believe that we can live up to all the principles that we have laid before ourselves."

Can the Premier tell us what process will be undertaken to review these principles that we may not be able to live up to.

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 684

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I was listening to the reply of the honourable Member yesterday. Maybe because we are more closely involved in discussions on how we can carry out the responsibilities of this government...I didn't take it to mean as definitively that we would be eroding the principles. But at the same time, I can understand that while we are trying to assess what is possible to be done, there are limitations on some of the areas. We may not be able to meet those requests in terms of the legal requirements; but we are compelled to meet the legal requirements. And what we are trying to do is to try to be as fair as possible with the funds that are available under the new agreement and also to set some priorities collectively so that we can make sure what we do have, works in the best interest of priorities that are set by this Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have to admit that I am somewhat troubled to find out the way I did that commitments by this government are all up for review. The Premier just made it sound like that may be the case. But for certainty's sake, I would like to specifically ask the Premier, in his response yesterday, was Mr. Kakfwi speaking on behalf of the government when he responded and said that all commitments by this government were under review?

Supplementary To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, as a Cabinet, when a Cabinet Minister speaks it is assumed that discussions have taken place and it is a Cabinet statement. However, I am listening to a certain part of the Member's reference to statements made yesterday and I will confer with the Minister responsible and see if we can give the Member some assurance that the statement was clear and concise in terms of the obligations that we have. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Question 348-12(7): Erosion Of Official Languages Principles
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, the Minister has been a champion within the Cabinet of devolving authority to the regions and I have sung his praises in this House many times on that subject. I would like to ask him, now that his department is about to obtain responsibility for two major airports in the Baffin region, in Iqaluit and Resolute Bay, will there be additional support to the regional Department of Transportation in the Baffin now that they are taking on these major additional responsibilities for these two major airports? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Transportation, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In keeping with our regional thrust in Mr. Patterson's area as well as others, there is an overall plan to increase the technical where withal in each of these regional offices so that it will be more autonomous from the centre. Thank you.

Return To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Supplementary To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I am pleased to hear about this, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister when might we get details of this plan. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am hopefully going to be in the position later next week to have an overall plan as it relates to increasing the required services in regional offices, both east and west, in preparation for the orderly transfer towards the division of the territories. And at that time, I should be able to share that strategic plan with the honourable Member and this House, if they so wish. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Question 349-12(7): Additional Support To Baffin Transportation Department
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, who is responsible for relations with the Union of Northern Workers, why the Union of Northern Workers has a representative monitoring the proceedings of this Assembly, particularly question period, on a daily basis? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Finance, Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 350-12(7): Reason For Unw Monitoring Legislative Assembly Sessions
Question 350-12(7): Reason For Unw Monitoring Legislative Assembly Sessions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 685

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe the Union of Northern Workers is exercising its right as an organization, and their representative is exercising his or her right to sit in the audience and listen to us talk. God knows, we need the audience, Mr. Speaker, thank you.

---Laughter

---Applause

Return To Question 350-12(7): Reason For Unw Monitoring Legislative Assembly Sessions
Question 350-12(7): Reason For Unw Monitoring Legislative Assembly Sessions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I have a question for the Minister of Renewable Resources. Mr. Speaker, over the last number of years, many Members of this House have expressed concern about probably the deadliest environmental threat that we're facing in the Northwest Territories; that is caused by airborne pollutants from the old Soviet Union and other places in the world. We have in our sea mammals levels of toxins six to seven times the acceptable rate. This has been a concern expressed by many Members in this House. My question to the Minister is, what is the strategy being pursued by this government in dealing with this very serious and insidious problem?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

March 28th, 1995

Page 686

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At the present time, the only air quality monitoring that has taken place has been here in the city of Yellowknife. The amount of equipment that is required to monitor air quality has not allowed it to expand much further than addressing the concerns raised by residents of the city in terms of the quality of air surrounding Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, here in this Assembly we've been given the results of alarming studies where toxins in mothers' milk in some areas of the eastern Arctic is many times the acceptable norm and where sea mammals haven't been nearly as healthy as they should have been. There is a lot of concern and a lot of documentation about it. I'm not talking about what monitoring is being done right now. I assume that the situation is being monitored. What I'm asking is what is the government doing about the facts that we already know. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Supplementary To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll have to take that question as notice. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Question 351-12(7): Strategy Re Monitoring Air Quality
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We didn't run out of questions. I have a question here for the Premier. Mr. Speaker, some time ago, the Premier tabled Tabled Document 40-12(7), History of the GNWT's Decision With Regard to the Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility and the Communications with Fort Smith. In that document, there appeared to be documents missing, as Mr. Pollard indicated in the House. They were going to review this and possibly table additional information. I would like to ask the Premier whether or not she's considering tabling additional information which should have been in Tabled Document 40-12(7). Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Madam Premier.

Return To Question 352-12(7): Td Re Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility Chronology
Question 352-12(7): Td Re Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility Chronology
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Yes, Mr. Speaker. We have looked at the document to make sure it contained all the relevant information. We also looked at stamped correspondence that was not originally signed. A document will be tabled by the Honourable Don Morin today at the appropriate time. Thank you.

Return To Question 352-12(7): Td Re Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility Chronology
Question 352-12(7): Td Re Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility Chronology
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services about the announcement that the Minister made yesterday with regard to the federal/territorial health care billings dispute. Mr. Speaker, over the last three years plus of this Assembly, I have been pursuing this issue in the House to see how it was going. This announcement has become public and I've been aware of the developments of this for some time. The concern here is with regard to the health services to be provided to the aboriginal people; mainly treaty, Dene and Inuit people.

In 1988 when administration of health services was transferred to the territorial government from the federal government, people in my constituency were concerned about it. As a result, we have an unresolved situation of no health boards in my area which I think is beneficial to the government in that we're not spending that much money in the health board administration area.

The Minister said at the conclusion of the third or fourth year, the escalated amount will be added to the gross expenditure base of the territorial government and increased thereafter under the terms of the formula financing agreement. What this agreement does is roll the $33.5 million and the six, three, three percentage increases from the first, second and third years into the formula agreement. Later on, the Minister stated that the terms cannot be interpreted to prejudice treaty and aboriginal rights or future self-government arrangements. How can that be if you're going to be rolling the funding for treaty Indians and Inuit into the base after the fourth year? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier. Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 686

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, with regard to the rolling of funds into the base, already there is the base funding for aboriginal health care in the Northwest Territories. We're not setting a precedent by rolling it into the base. Specifically

in the agreement the Premier signed, it says that this won't prejudice self-government arrangements that may come into force, that may be negotiated, treaty rights, land claim rights or any other rights that aboriginal people feel they have. It doesn't comment on the fiduciary responsibility either, Mr. Speaker, so we believe that we've kept it contractual and have not gotten into those areas so as to prejudice some claim. Thank you.

Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister, I guess, the Minister of Finance. This agreement is quite a step in taking over all health care services for everybody. If you're going to roll it into the base eventually, there's no identification for treaty Indians and Inuit in it. The original agreement of 1988 was that the territorial government would administer health services programs for treaty Indians and Inuit. So, there, it is separately identified. In other jurisdictions, the aboriginal groups are looking after those services themselves. But in this case, this territorial government is administering the programs and services to treaty Indians and Inuit people. But if you roll it into the base, then what sort of protection do they have so they'll have the types of guarantees for program services and health that are in treaties and aboriginal agreements with these aboriginal groups? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, by definition, we still have to provide Ottawa, for the next few years, with those billings that go through Stanton, Fort Smith or the Hay River hospitals. So within those particular areas, as well, there are catchment areas like the Dogrib area, Providence, Kakisa and Resolution in the Hay River area. So we are accounting and keeping separate those bills that we send to the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. When people see the agreement, they will see in there that it specifically does recognize that there are treaty rights and this agreement does not deal with treaty rights. Those treaty rights are still between the First Nations and the Government of Canada, and this agreement will not interfere with those. I think it says that specifically in the agreement, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Throughout this whole process, Mr. Speaker, I've had a lot of concern that communication with the people who will be directly affected by this arrangement might cause some problems. Whenever there's a big change, such as this arrangement that the territorial and federal governments have come to, it's going to raise a lot of concerns and it may also create some problems. I've been asking the government if they were communicating with the aboriginal groups that are going to be affected. I would like to ask the Minister if the government has been communicating throughout this whole process with the aboriginal groups that are going to be affected by this arrangement. I'll leave it at that, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, when we started out with this problem, we did involve a number of aboriginal groups across the country and also in the Northwest Territories in getting their advice and assuring them that when we did eventually go to court, that we would not be addressing the issue of fiduciary responsibility. There has been communication between myself and the groups over the years -- and it is years now, I think three years, Mr. Speaker. Finally, as we committed to do, there was discussion last week on Thursday and Friday between the Premier, mostly, the eastern health boards. Then there was the NIC, Nunavut Tunngavik, Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, Pauktuutit, Nunatsiaq Member of Parliament, the Inuvialuit Regional Council, the Gwich'in Tribal Council, Sahtu Tribal Council, the Deh Cho Tribal Council, Dogrib Tribal Council, Treaty 8 First Nations, the NWT Native Women's Association, Metis Nation, the Dene Nation and the Western Arctic Member of Parliament. And I did the western health boards on Monday. So they were all made aware of what was in this agreement and our intention to go ahead and sign it. I'm not aware that there were any problems, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to ask the Minister about the last paragraph in the statement from yesterday where it was stated that "even though the package calls for increased federal contributions for the next three years, measures will be required to make the best possible use of resources available, particularly in the view of the future federal cutbacks to territorial transfer payments." We all know that we've been cut back $8 million this year and we're going to be cut back $50 million next year. So what does this statement mean in light of these cutbacks? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 687

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that's merely being responsible and saying to people in the Northwest Territories that health care costs have been rising dramatically over the last few years. Health care costs across Canada have been rising dramatically, and other jurisdictions have taken certain measures to curtail those costs. I think what we're recognizing in the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker, is that we too have that same problem. There's a great demand on the system, an increasing demand on the system. And the dollars, whether they come from Ottawa or whether they come

from our own resources, are shrinking and we're going to have to be careful with those particular dollars. I think that was what the Premier was meaning. That regardless of the agreement with Ottawa, there's always a problem when there's clamouring for dollars in a particular area. In this instance, it's health. And we're just going to have to be prudent with our dollars, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Question 353-12(7): Health Care Billings Agreement With Federal Government
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health. We have a Health department because the focus is on the health of our people. We don't call it the "Department of Sickness." So I would like to ask the Minister whether we know how healthy our population is compared to people who live in other parts of Canada. Do we have that kind of information?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Health and Social Services, Madam Premier.

Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, the information about the state of wellness in our communities is a project that we've spent a great deal of time on in the last couple of years to try to determine just what the state of health of our residents is. We do have it in quite a bit of detail, and if Members are interested we could make a presentation on the numbers and the various categories of illnesses and where the population stands on each. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you. We spend a lot of money, Mr. Speaker, on different programs. I know the Education Minister gets asked all the time how we're doing, how we compare and so on. I would like to ask the Minister of Health, since we, on a regular basis do get information on sicknesses that keep on recurring -- chlamydia, hepatitis, gonorrhoea, for example; we have a long list that we get from the Department of Health on incidences of these things in our communities -- what use is made of this kind of information because while I look at this, many of these things seem to be concentrated in particular communities throughout the territories. Is there any particular use made of these statistics in the work of the Department of Health?

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, it has a variety of uses in the public health area where the public health can, once they're aware of a certain trend and a certain area of concern, redirect some of their attention and focus towards that. The other importance of the information that is being compiled very much in detail is that presently we are working with the health boards, and the health boards are committed to doing a needs study according to the health status of their different regions, of what is needed in the area, what type of support and what kind of focus we have to place on the treatments in the various areas. So, it is a detailed study that is ongoing and, presently, it is being upgraded as time goes by. We're keeping it current. I know it's very important to the planning of health boards to see what kinds of resources are required and will be required.

As we're planning the budgeting for Health, whether it is within the department or in cooperation with health boards, it is important for us to have more planning. We're criticized, as a Department of Health, from time to time, for having expenditures over and above projections. From the knowledge we've gained on the state of health of individuals in various areas, we hope we can do better planning; focus much better on specific disease areas, if appropriate; formulate what types of resources we would recommend; and, work in conjunction with the health boards in the different regions of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, we all know how important it is to have a healthy population if we're going to get anywhere. We already know about the hidden killer, about AIDS, and the fear that people have about the impact that could have in the long run. This is an election year and people want to get a good picture of what the major issues we have to tackle are in this department. What are the major health concerns that the department has with regard to our population in specific areas, whether it is heart, liver or kidneys? What are the specific things that are the biggest threats to the health of our population?

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 688

Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, when we were discussing these issues with the federal government regarding what was needed in the health dispute and the formula to take care of the residents of the Northwest Territories, one of the most important issues that emerged, I would think, is not really a specific disease; but more the awareness of individuals on how to look after themselves.

There is a great lack of knowledge by the average person, no matter where they are, on how they can look after themselves. One of the acute problems everyone knows about is smoking. Creating awareness so that people can take preventative steps so they don't get into a situation where they end up under the care of medical services, we feel is one area that has to be tackled. The other issue is what to do to keep yourself healthy. It's a matter of personal conduct. The records of venereal diseases are not as low as we would like to see them. What do people have to do about it? This is the area where people have to take steps to address their personal well-being on a day-to-day basis. These are the concerns we have as a Department of Health.

If an individual is not looking after themselves, taking risks, not eating well, not feeding their children well, feeding children sugared juice in bottles so that their teeth are rotten before they're even fully grown, these are the areas where we should try to get information across to residents, the prevention and holistic approach to a person's well-being. I think that, although there are statistics that show that some concern could be raised about tuberculosis, venereal disease and smoking as it relates to cancer, there are other areas that we can show in graphic illustrations. Another concern coming up more and more in terms of a person's well-being is fetal alcohol syndrome and the effects. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Final supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister has pointed out that health is very much a personal responsibility and I agree with her, but I would like to ask her then, since she agrees that people tend to want to let others solve their health problems, what is she doing about unnecessary dependence on the health system by people who really should be looking after themselves? What is she doing about unnecessary visits to doctors and so on, because she's admitted that we have an overdependence?

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I hate to admit it, but I totally don't understand the question that is being posed.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Lewis, would you like to clarify?

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Since the Minister has agreed that people should have a great responsibility for their own health, what is she doing about trying to get people to solve their own problems and not expect the Department of Health to solve them?

Supplementary To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ms. Cournoyea.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Nellie Cournoyea Nunakput

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the majority of work that is taking place on a broad basis is probably through the health centres in the communities. The health centres have a program for infant teeth decay that they promote every chance they can. Hopefully, as people become more knowledgeable, they will also become more responsible in heeding the warnings on what should or should not do for the sake of these little children who really should be keeping their teeth for a longer period of time.

The health centres also provide well-baby clinics and attempt to bring a family focus to looking after children. Some of the health clinics have had family clinics to bring together the entire family so they may all look after the health and well-being of the family. One of the focuses of the community health representative program, where the CHRs are stationed in the community, is to provide, with the nurse in charge, educational programs for individuals, communities and schools, about how people can better take care of themselves; for example, to take into consideration a better diet. They explain to people in the language that is more understandable to them.

There are major initiatives, in terms of safe sex, that the health centres provide a dialogue on; not only for the community but for people who come in on a day-to-day basis. Also, when time permits, they go into schools to give information in this regard. So there are a number of things that generate themselves out of this health centre that is particularly related to the community and the individual, that will allow much more awareness so that people can know and be knowledgable of things that they can do to take care of themselves. We still have a long way to go, Mr. Speaker, but I believe that there are some positive signs because people are becoming more concerned and they do access a lot of the facilities. The health centres certainly have the numbers on people coming to seek information and direction on what they can do to look after themselves. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 354-12(7): Nwt Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Question 354-12(7): NWT Residents' State Of Health Versus Other Jurisdictions
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 689

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Time for question period has lapsed. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, Return to Written Question 15-12(7) asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell to the Minister of Public Works and Services concerning the list of purchases made by Public Works and Services local garage in Fort Smith.

A list of purchases made by the Fort Smith PW&S garage during the period April 1, 1994 to March 1, 1995 is as follows:

Purchases by delegated acquisition:

All-West Glass, Fort Smith, 17 contracts, total, $2,007.35; A & R Sales, Hay River, one contract, total, $554.02; Bumper to Bumper, Fort Smith, 247 contracts, total, $59,755.11; Cascade/Graffiti, Fort Smith, 12 contracts, total, $2,425.46; Finning Tractor, Hay River, 32 contracts, total, $5,697.88; Freunds Building, Fort Smith, four contracts, total, $3,762.83; Graffiti, Fort Smith, 11 contracts, total, $2,311.68; J & M Enterprises, Fort Smith, 35 contracts, total, $5,061.25; Kingland Ford, Hay River, 65 contracts, total, $7,957.34; Kozy Karpets, Fort Smith, one contract, total, $83.43; Link Hardware, Fort Smith, 15 contracts, total, $8,898.81; Lou Small Engines, Fort Smith, four contracts, total, $7,257.57; Michelin Tire, Fort Smith, 27 contracts, total, $9,254.41; Northern Metalic, Hay River, 10 contracts, total, $4,587.01; Peterson Oil Sales, Fort Smith, 10 contracts, total, $4,439.19; Snap-on Tools, Hay River, six contracts, total, $824.92; Target North, Fort Smith, 28 contracts, total, $10,426.42; Tire North, Hay River, 10 contracts, total, $6,543.07; TSA, Hay River, one contract, total, $29.68; Wally's Drug, Fort Smith, six contracts, total, $1,255.66; Wesclean Sales, Hay River, 10 contracts, total, $3,140.37; Wrights Hardware, Hay River, two contracts, total, $2,009.45; Xerox Canada, Hay River, three contracts, total, $1,395.28; YK Motors, Yellowknife, eight contracts, total, $6,706.67. Totals: 565 contracts for a grand total of $156,384.86.

Purchases by supply services tendering:

Bumper to Bumper, Fort Smith, two purchase orders, total, $5,822.39; TSA, Hay River, one purchase order, total, $1,002.00; Michelin Tires, Fort Smith, one purchase order, total, $4,600.00; Igloo building, Hay River, one purchase order, total, $2,078.99; Pardee Equipment, Edmonton, one purchase order, total, $16,488.68. Totals: six purchase orders for a grand total of $29,992.06.

The list for the previous fiscal year will be provided to the Member as soon as it is compiled.

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

1. For the 1994-95 fiscal year, the Department of Transportation allocated the following amounts for the construction and maintenance of the following:

a)Trout Lake Winter Road, $72,679

b)Jean Marie River Winter Road, $14,997

c)Nahanni Butte Winter Road, $33,624

2. As of March 10, 1995, the department had spent the following amounts:

a)Trout Lake Winter Road, $46,574

b)Jean Marie River Winter Road, $12,729

c)Nahanni Butte Winter Road, $32,752

3. The source for the above information is the Department of Transportation's highway operations division.

4. The Department of Transportation's policy on the closing dates for the Trout Lake, Jean Marie River and Nahanni Butte winter roads was to stop maintenance operations as of March 15, 19944 and, weather permitting, allow traffic to continue using the roads until March 25, 1995.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Before we go to item 11, we will take a 10-minute break.

---SHORT RECESS

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. We're on item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Legislation, to report on the review of rewriting liquor laws in the Northwest Territories, a legislative action paper.

Background Information

In December 1993, the Minister of Safety and Public Services directed his department to conduct a comprehensive review of Northwest Territories' liquor legislation. Since that time, the liquor law review has sent out information flyers and questionnaires as well as petitioned the various groups and agencies that are directly affected by territorial liquor legislation, to respond with their ideas and concerns. Further, the liquor law review travelled across the territories to approximately 26 communities to hold public hearings. On November 14, 1994 the Minister tabled Tabled Document 2-12(7) "Rewriting Liquor Laws in the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper." A motion to refer the paper to the Standing Committee on Legislation for review was carried in the House on November 16, 1994.

Since receiving the tabled document, the standing committee, in cooperation with the Department of Safety and Public Services, has conducted public hearings with leaders in the Baffin, Beaufort Delta, Deh Cho and Yellowknife regions. As well, members of the public were invited to present their views. The public response was good and the committee heard presentations from a cross-section of interest groups.

Introduction

The Standing Committee on Legislation, under the authority given to it by this House, has completed its review of Tabled Document 2-12(7), entitled "Rewriting Liquor Laws in the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper."

The legislation in the Northwest Territories that formed the framework for our current Liquor Act was granted assent on May 17, 1983. The current regulatory model is based on the 1969 Choquette report which is now 25 years old. Many changes have occurred in the past 25 years. The liquor market has broadened and proliferated and the existing legislation has had a great deal of difficulty coping with the changes. Therefore the development of new, more progressive legislation was felt to be in order.

Overview

The legislative action paper on rewriting the liquor laws focuses on a series of five principles or concepts that the department feels will guide the development of a new Liquor Act for the Northwest Territories. Further, the action paper provides information on the wide and varied views that the liquor law review received during their consultation process. The paper however, does not provide a definite proposal for legislative action. The committee feels that the action paper did not go far enough in that it did not endorse a specific course of action for legislating liquor in the NWT.

Summary Of Issues

During the review of the legislative action paper, the standing committee heard, in every community visited, certain concerns that the people would like to see addressed in some manner in the new legislation.

a)Restriction On Non-beverage Alcohol

b)Bootlegging

Bootlegging, the illegal sale of liquor, was the topic most discussed in the communities that the standing committee had the opportunity to visit. Community leaders stated that bootlegging is the number one concern of those listed in the paper, that they would like to see dealt with in new liquor legislation. Witnesses felt that bootlegging affects those people in the community that can least afford the social and financial costs and therefore impacts on the social well-being of the community. In most cases, community leaders stated that stiffer penalties, high minimum fines, and significant prison sentences would assist in solving some of the bootlegging problems.

c)Establishing A Liquor Purchasing Permit System

In every community visited by the standing committee, it was suggested that access to large volumes of liquor could be better controlled. Witnesses endorsed the establishment of a system of permits to assist in the monitoring and recording of large volumes of alcohol in communities or regions. It was noted, however, that it would be more difficult in regions where liquor outlets are more prevalent and road transportation is available. This would also be more difficult in areas where law enforcement officials are scarce.

d)Developing A Proof Of Eligibility System

Some witnesses felt that a control system which identifies who is and who isn't eligible to purchase, possess or consume liquor, should be established. It was suggested that a proof of eligibility card be established. This card, much like a driver's licence which shows that one is qualified to drive, would show that a person is eligible to have liquor. This card would have to be shown at all licensed establishments and liquor outlets. It was felt that this would be a means by which authorities could further control bootlegging and the serving of minors.

e)Raising The Legal Drinking Age From 19 To 21

Although talked about extensively in all the regions, raising the legal drinking age was not supported by the witnesses who appeared before the standing committee. It was felt that raising the drinking age would only create other social problems for teens. Youth may experiment with illegal drugs and non-beverage alcohol if denied access to liquor. It was suggested that rather than raise the drinking age, public education campaigns on the effects of alcohol, which target northern youth, would be more effective.

f)Increased Control At The Community Level

Presently, the Liquor Act allows communities to exercise certain options for local control of liquor. All witnesses who appeared before the standing committee supported the broadening of these authorities. Witnesses endorsed the premise that minimum standards for liquor control would have to be set, however, community leaders stressed that each community best knows what would meet the local needs of that community and therefore the legislation should allow each community to tailor a liquor control system to their needs.

g)Community Allowed To Institute An Additional Surcharge

It was affirmed by a number of presenters that communities should be allowed to place an additional surcharge on the price of liquor sold locally and use the revenue from the surcharge to assist in the delivery of alcohol-related social programs. It was further suggested that for every dollar the local community raised from the surcharge, the government should match that dollar. Therefore, revenue generated from the sale of alcohol could be seen to be used for the public benefit.

h)Stripping In Licensed Establishments

The standing committee heard from two witnesses that the new Liquor Act should set standards for the types of entertainment that may take place in a licensed premises. The presenters stated that they felt that stripping should be outlawed in licensed establishments. Their expressed opinion was that some people view stripping, either by men or women, as an abuse of both the people who are watching, and those who are hired to strip. Although a consensus on this issue was not reached, it was suggested that each community should be granted the authority in the legislation to determine what type of entertainment would be allowed in the licensed establishments of that community.

Conclusion

The general public, in their presentations to both the liquor law review and the standing committee during its review of the action paper, has clearly stated their support for new and progressive liquor legislation for the Northwest Territories. Although unanimity was not reached on how the specific areas for change should be addressed in the new legislation, the standing committee encourages the government to begin the task of developing this legislation for introduction early in the life of the 13th Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, to conclude, also attached to the report is a list of witnesses who appeared before the committee. They are quite extensive so I won't read them all but I would like to say thank you on behalf of the committee for their valuable contributions.

Motion To Receive Committee Report 5-12(7) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried

Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Legislation. Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Natilikmiot, that the report of the Standing Committee on Legislation on its Review of the legislative action paper Rewriting the Liquor Laws in the Northwest Territories be received by the Assembly and moved into committee of the whole. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. We don't have a quorum, Mr. Clerk.

The Speaker recognizes a quorum. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

I would like to recognize in the gallery some members of the forum on income support reform, Wilf Wilcox, co-chair, Grace Blake, co-chair; Joanne Deneron; Sandra...

---Applause

Do you want to clap for each one of them, one at a time?

---Laughter

I'll call their names out first, okay? Joanne Deneron, Sandra Kusugak, Thelma Tees, and Elijah Erkloo, a former Member of this House. Welcome to the House.

---Applause

Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Whitford.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Report On Bills 24 And 27

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to this Assembly that the Standing Committee on Legislation has reviewed bills 24 and 27 and wishes to report that bills 24 and 27 are now ready for committee of the whole.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Morin.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to table the following document, Tabled Document 75-12(7), Revised Document, Fort Smith Aircraft Maintenance Facility History of the GNWT Decisions And Communications with Fort Smith. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to advise the House that in light of your ruling on March 27, 1995, Cabinet has agreed to modify the administrative procedures to ensure that in future all letters originating from Minister's offices that are tabled in the House will have actual signatures rather than being stamped indicating the original was signed by the Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Ms. Mike.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 76-12(7), Co-Management Plan for Southeast Baffin Beluga Prepared for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans by the Planning Committee for a Co-Management of Southeast Baffin Beluga Committee, May 1994, also in Inuktitut.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kitikmeot, that Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 28 has had first reading. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 692

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Kitikmeot, that Bill 30, Deficit Elimination Act, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 692

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 692

An Hon. Member

Question

.

Bill 30: Deficit Elimination Act
Item 17: First Reading Of Bills

Page 693

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 30 has had first reading. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Fair Practices Act; Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Retirement Plan Beneficiaries Act; Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Elections Act, No. 2; Bill 21, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

The Chair John Ningark

Good afternoon. The committee will come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to recommend that the committee consider Bill 21 followed by the return to consideration of Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7), specifically to deal with the budget of the Housing Corporation.

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee that we deal with Bill 21, then Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7), specifically to deal with the Housing Corporation? Do we have agreement?

Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Pollard, are you ready to deal with Bill 21, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95?

Minister's Opening Remarks

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95 requests authority for additional appropriations of $26,540,500. This supplementary appropriation consists of additional appropriation requests in the amount of $25,120,500 in operations and maintenance and $1.420 million in capital. Mr. Chairman, $16.956 million has been allocated to the social envelope, $7,362,500 has been allocated to the resource management envelope and $2.22 million has been allocated to the infrastructure envelope.

The effect of these supplementary appropriations were taken into account in the revised financial forecast 1994/95 that were contained in the 1995-96 budget.

Mr. Chairman, some of the highlights of this supplementary appropriation include:

- $3.92 million for the economic development agreement to meet the increased client demand for economic opportunities. This request will be offset by a recovery by the federal government in the amount of $2.744 million.

- $2.845 million for the student financial assistance program to meet additional requirements due to post-secondary enrolment increases;

- $2.414 million for health and hospital boards to meet increased operational requirement;

- $2.29 million for the social assistance program to meet additional requirements due to continued increases in case loads;

- $2.019 million for the child welfare program costs to meet additional requirements due to increases in the number of child welfare investigations as well as per diem increases for foster care and residential care;

- $1.8 million to fund increased Workers' Compensation Board benefit payments for renewable resource harvesters;

- $1.2 million to provide funding for the government's interest cost for temporary borrowing to meet cash needs;

- $1.032 million to provide funding to divisional boards of education for the staffing of an additional 16 teaching positions;

- $852,000 to provide for the GNWT share of additional costs related to RCMP contract cost increases;

- $852,000 to provide for increase costs for legal aid fees and payments related to court proceedings through the NWT;

- $501,000 to provide for increased operational requirements in the corrections program;

- $500,000 to provide funding for additional projects under the investing in people pilot initiative;

- $500,000 to provide for the GNWT share of the 1994-95 cost for the implementation of the Canada/NWT infrastructure agreement. This request will be financed through savings identified by departments in our 1994/95 capital projects.

Mr. Chairman, I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary funding requests and either answer Members' questions or refer them to the Minister responsible. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Before I open the floor to general comments, I would like to ask the honourable Minister if he wishes to bring in the witness.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

John Pollard Hay River

If I might, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

The Chair John Ningark

Bring in the witness, please. Thank you. I was told initially that there was no report from the Standing Committee on Finance, but I am told that there is in fact a report from the Standing Committee on Finance. Mr. Antoine.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 693

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is a response here. The Standing Committee on Finance met today to consider this supplementary appropriation.

Committee Members expressed a number of concerns related to the items included in this bill.

While many of the specific concerns raised will be addressed later in this House, I will point out some of the more important issues identified by committee Members.

Members of the standing committee feel that the government's budget estimates should reflect the government's best estimates of the amount to be spent in a given area. Too often, however, lower figures are listed in the estimates and the department later comes back with a request for more funds. Many of the items in this supplementary appropriation fall into this category. For example, the standing committee has repeatedly expressed concern that amounts budgeted in the areas of health and social services are often unrealistically low and are later the subject of repeated requests for supplementary funding.

Moreover, many of the items listed here were the subject of a special warrant approved on January 11, 1995. This is of special concern to the standing committee Members. At that time, the standing committee was considering the 1995/96 main estimates and was hearing from the departments in the social envelope, including Health and Social Services. The standing committee was not given details of this supplementary funding at that time. As a result, many of the standing committees comments and recommendations in the report on the review of the 1995/96 main estimates were based on incomplete information.

Some of the requests for funding here created a significant difference in actual anticipated funding for 1994/95 and the amount estimated for 1995/96. The standing committee finds this unacceptable and will be working with the Minister of Finance to ensure such problems will not arise in the future.

Mr. Chairman, the standing committee is concerned at this reflection of poor budgeting and planning practices from the government. We will have a number of questions on specific issues as we discuss this matter here in the House. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Antoine, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance. Mr. Minister, would you introduce the witness please.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have with me Mr. Lew Voytilla who is the secretary to the Financial Management Board. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are reviewing the Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95. The floor is now open for general comments. Shall we go into detail?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Patterson, are you agreed?

General Comments

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 694

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a general comment to just reinforce what the chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance said.

Mr. Chairman, sometimes I wonder what we are doing here. The reason I say that, Mr. Chairman, is that if the Standing Committee on Finance and the Legislative Assembly do not get real estimates of the actual costs that are going to be incurred by departments in areas such as medical travel, social assistance, child welfare, forest fire fighting, if we do not have that before us when we take weeks and days and hours to review the main estimates, then what is the purpose of this exercise. I think the bottom line of these $26 million in supps...There are some very big numbers here and the big numbers tell us that the estimates given to the previous Legislative Assembly were way out, were out by millions of dollars.

Mr. Chairman, I acknowledge that in some cases there is good reason and where the reason is price, and inflation, and forced growth, then that is an entirely appropriate use of the supplementary estimate. But when the reason is poor planning, negligence, then we have to ask why we go through the exercise of approving these numbers when we know they may not be real.

Mr. Chairman, this is my main problem with the exercise; I think the people of the Northwest Territories are entitled to know what these areas are actually going to cost. It appears that even when we were reviewing this year's main estimates for 1995-96 there was a lot of information that the government had, since it had approved special warrants in early January, that the previous year's estimates, which we are now revealing today, were much too low in many areas of spending. Had we known that when we reviewed those main estimates, the Standing Committee on Finance could have incorporated that information into their report and I think we might have been much more critical of the estimates of some departments, had we known that these numbers were going to change so dramatically through this supplementary appropriation.

So, Mr. Chairman, I don't want to criticize the Minister of Finance. It's a terrible job, and he probably would agree that it is annoying when departments can't accurately forecast their costs. I'm sure it's a frustration to the Minister of Finance, as much as it is to Members of the Standing Committee on Finance. So I don't want to particularly criticize the Minister of Finance in whom I have great confidence. But I think we all ought to note, particularly for the benefit of Ministers and deputy ministers, that we would like to know what the real costs are going to be. And this supp, in many areas, suggests that departments are still very lax in accurately estimating those costs.

Now I understand that there's a new regime in place whereby deputy ministers' performances are evaluated on the basis of financial management. I think as we go through these supps and find out where the estimates are quite at variance from what we see in the supplementary estimates. We should be able to make some judgements about the performance of deputies and directors of finance in these departments. Because where there's no good reason in terms of price, inflation, forced growth, then it indicates that the planning process is faulty. And I would even go as far as to say that the House, if not the Minister of Finance, has been mislead by the estimates put forward by the department.

So I think it's important to emphasize that the purpose of budgeting is to get as realistic a picture of costs of operating in the Northwest Territories as possible. And this supp shows that there have been some bad mistakes made in the estimates. So, with those general comments, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to going over the detail. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Any further general comments? Shall we go into detail?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Line By Line

Legislative Assembly

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95. On page 6, the department is Legislative Assembly, operations and maintenance. Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $234,000. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Total department, not previously authorized, $234,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Executive

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Next page, Executive, operations and maintenance, directorate, not previously authorized, $52,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Human resource management, not previously authorized, $697,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 8, audit and evaluation, not previously authorized, negative $33,000. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, are we on page 8?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Yes, page 8.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Is that where you're at?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Yes, Mr. Antoine, we are on page 8, audit and evaluation, not previously authorized, negative $33,000. This is where we're at. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I had no questions on that one.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total department, $716,000. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Finance

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 9, Department of Finance, operations and maintenance, revenue and assets management, not previously authorized, $1.2 million. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total department, $1.2 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

This is the law enforcement on page 10.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Antoine, we haven't got to that page yet. We are in the process of approving page 9, total department, $1.2 million. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Justice

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Now, on page 10, Justice, operations and maintenance, law enforcement, not previously authorized, $1.002 million. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would just like to ask a question with regard to this one. There are the RCMP increases. There is a contract cost increase, and there is a firearms program that was for $100,000. I would like to ask the question why were the RCMP increases and the firearms program not anticipated in the 1994-95 main estimates? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 695

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the RCMP came back to us with the increases in the agreement. Our share of it is 70 per cent, their share is 30 per cent. At the time we put the

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Justice, operations and maintenance, law enforcement. Mr. Allooloo.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thought the previous Minister's statements in the last few days said that all the firearms programs to get people educated on firearms legislation will be borne by the federal government, because it is the federal government that is changing legislation. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, with regard to the $100,000, this request is fully offset by a recovery from the federal government. So in as much as you see us expending it, we will get it back from the federal government. The Member is correct, the federal government will pay. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Law enforcement, not previously authorized, $1.002 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Vehicle services board, not previously authorized, $852,000. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

This one is a big increase, $852,000 for legal aid and payments to court proceedings. I would like to ask why was this not anticipated, as well, in the 1994-95 main estimates. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, it's very difficult to predict the uptake on court proceedings and the requirements for legal aid throughout the Northwest Territories. We probably could have gotten it a little closer. I would point out that $175,000 of this amount is related to the Roger Warren trial which, again, we couldn't forecast. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Legal Services Board, $852,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Corrections. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

We're into corrections now, Mr. Chairman? We're just getting into it. There are base deficiencies here and I would like to ask why they weren't brought up when the Minister appeared before SCOF in January. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there have been a number of areas in government departments over the last few years where there have been base deficiencies and there has been some problem in having these deficiencies justified to us. I would point out that the kind of adjustment that Mr. Antoine is questioning why it wasn't made a year ago, has been made in the 1995-96 budget. This is one of the areas. In all, in the 1995-96 budget, we've made base adjustments of $2.748 million for police services; legal aid, $646,000; courts, $1.16 million; corrections, $2.451 million; social assistance; $3.839 million; education boards, $6.252 million; and, student financial assistance, $3.847 million. This was one of the areas where there was a base deficiency that has been corrected in the 1995-96 budget but, the Member is correct, it wasn't brought to the attention of the Standing Committee on Finance in the year previous. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Corrections, not previously authorized, $501,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total department, $2.355 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Public Works And Services

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 11, Public Works and Services. Operations and maintenance, supply services. Not previously authorized, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Systems and communications, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Total department, negative $2,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Transportation

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Page 12, Transportation, operations and maintenance, Arctic airports, not previously authorized, $67,000. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 696

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like to ask the Minister what is the reason for requesting additional money here? The Baker Lake training centre has been in operation for a couple of years now,

they should have their base funding down pat. If he could provide me with that information, I would appreciate it, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, this training program in Baker Lake was sort of phased in over a number of years and by the time we got it up to speed, an extra $67,000 was required for 1994-95. As it spiralled up, it required more money. This should do it though, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Arctic airports, not previously authorized, $67,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Total department, not previously authorized, $67,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Renewable Resources

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Page 13, Renewable Resources, operations and maintenance. Wildlife management, special warrants, $90,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Wildlife management, not previously authorized, $128,000. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like to go back to the bison control area, the $90,000 special warrant. What is this funding for? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there's a bison control area formerly called a bison-free zone. It was implemented in 1987 and it's a zone between herds infected with tuberculosis and brucellosis in Wood Buffalo National Park, northern Alberta and the Mackenzie herd. In the winter, ice cover increases the chances that bison from the Wood Buffalo National Park are able to cross the Mackenzie River and infect healthy bison in the Mackenzie sanctuary. This money is to monitor if there is any movement of animals out of their respective areas, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Special warrants, $90,000. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Is there funding in place for this already? Is this $90,000 an additional amount to an existing fund? If so, what is the original budget for this program? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there is money for the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch in the department's budget, but not for this particular purpose. The reason that it hasn't been established formally is we're awaiting the northern buffalo management program report from the federal government. So, until such time as we get that particular report and know how we're going to deal with these diseased animals in the south Mackenzie, from year to year the department just monitors the movement of those animals between those two locations. Hopefully, once that report comes out from the federal government and there's a plan set in place, something more concrete can be done in this area, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Wildlife management, special warrants, $90,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Wildlife management, not previously authorized, $128,000. The honourable Member for Nahendeh.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. This $128,000, according to the substantiation, is to fund Inuvialuit participation in committees established by their final agreement. Are there existing funds in place already to do this or is this an addition to an existing source of funding? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, we're not getting anything from the federal government for this particular project. I think both governments and the Inuvialuit recognize that it needs to be done. The federal government has some money in its budget in DIAND to pay these costs. We're hopefully in the final stages of negotiating an agreement with the federal government that would allow the Inuvialuit participation costs to flow through the Government of the Northwest Territories or through some other agreement to the Inuvialuit. I would hope we will be able to conclude this issue in the coming fiscal year, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Member for Nahendeh.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I take it that there is no existing funding at this time and place for the Inuvialuit participation. Their agreement was concluded a number of years ago. I would like to ask the Minister, if there's no funding in place at this point in time, has the government been funding Inuvialuit participation in these committees over the years, from the time their final agreement was concluded up to this point? Have we been funding them every year?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 697

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, yes we have been funding this area since the claim was settled. We have spent about $500,000 so far in this area. The federal government is refusing to provide the funding that they have in their budget until the IFA is amended to specifically address this

responsibility. In other words, they are saying that they believe that the responsibility rests with the Government of the Northwest Territories. And, of course, we maintain that this is an agreement between an aboriginal group and the federal government. Those are the issues that we are trying to wrestle down right now and we have been working hard on it for the last four months, Mr. Chairman. I am hoping that with the health billings out of the way now I can spend more time on it and perhaps bring this to a conclusion. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Wildlife management, not previously authorized. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I take it that this particular amount of funding, once the agreement has been raised with the federal government, that the territorial government will be no longer funding this particular arrangement. Or are we going to be seeing this again in the future? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister for Finance.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Chairman, if we are able to conclude the arrangement with DIAND then we would not be...If the agreement works out that we are the funnel for the money, you would still see the money going through here, but it would be money coming from the federal government. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Wildlife management, not previously authorized, $128,000. Do you agree than?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Conservation, education and resource development, not previously authorized, $2.181 million. Agreed. Merci. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The trappers' incentive subsidy program and the prime fur program, is there an exchange from one program to another in this particular situation. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Chairman, the prime fur program will replace the trappers' incentive subsidy. This is a one-time payment to compensate for the overlap of the two programs. So, this $381,000 is merely to cover the jump from one program to the next. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Conservation, education and resource development. Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, I think maybe Mr. Patterson will probably be asking the same questions on the Workers' Compensation benefit. Just for the record, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister about the Workers' Compensation benefit for renewable resource harvesters; during 1994 there is $1.8 million that is not previously authorized here and was spent by this government. If the Minister could give us some details of this amount. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Yes, Mr. Chairman, the total amount that renewable will have to pay out will be $2.3 million. In 1994-95, they had base funding of $300,000 -- as I said, the claim was $2.3 million -- they had a credit of $206,000 from the WCB and this is the amount of money required to top it up to the $2.3 million, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Conservation, education and resource development, not previously authorized, $2.181 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Agreed, thank you. Policy and planning, special warrants, $278,500.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am quite interested in how this initiative will be undertaken. I know that the special warrant was approved in January, I imagine the money was not all to be spent in three months. I would just like to get some detail about what is being done for these funds. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Yes. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the amount of $278,500 is made up of casual wages required to complete the report publication, that is the traditional knowledge report. Publication of GNWT response in the different languages, $19,000; travel for the March 1994 workshop with cultural organizations, $8,000; coordinator's salary and infrastructure costs, $16,500; the public awareness campaign in consultation with aboriginal cultural organizations needed some travel to meet with the communities and organizations, that was $20,000; there was a poster completed at $10,000; an annual report for $5,000; there were additional public education materials for $5,000; the gathering and translation of traditional concepts costs $30,000; the workshop with cultural organization on work items, $35,000; the workshop with elders and youth on specific GNWT initiatives, $120,000; which totals the $278,500, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Is that work all complete? Mr. Chairman, was that all done in three months? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 698

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, I have specified what the amount was made up of, I don't know to what stage these things are at. I would respectfully ask the Minister of Renewable Resources to answer that question. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the detail of the amounts that were allocated or requested in the special warrant, I had insisted that the traditional knowledge coordinator should be located in Nunavut. To date, this position has not yet been filled. So the conference that was being planned for this month did not take place. This request for the .25 person year as yet, has not been filled. Although, there are some things that have happened with a person who had been hired on a casual basis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Policy and planning. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I appreciate you craning you neck, Mr. Chairman, I know I'm on the fringe here. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, since the Minister of Renewable Resources has indicated that certain initiatives planned for this month could not be completed, including a conference that I think he said was budgeted at $120,000. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, does that mean that we could safely delete those funds from this supplementary appropriation; the $120,000 and the .25 person year? If they're not going to be spent, would it not be responsible to delete them from this bill? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister of Finance.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

That's an option, Mr. Chairman. I would rather suggest a different option, though, and that is to allow the department to carry the funds over so they can do this conference as soon as possible in the new fiscal year. I think there's a way of allowing that money to be carried over and used for the same purpose. I think it's still the intention of the government and still the intention of the Minister to go through with the conference, so that would be my preference, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Policy and planning. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I think this is a worthwhile initiative, Mr. Chairman, and I would like to see it happen. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Policy and planning, special warrants, $278,500.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $368,500. Agreed? Total department, do we agree? Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Sorry, Mr. Chairman, I just had a lingering question here. I know we can carry over capital funds when they're lapsed, but I have not heard of being able to carry over O and M funds. So I have to ask the Minister of Finance again, how could the funds for the traditional knowledge conference and the coordinator be carried over if they are operations and

maintenance funds? I haven't heard of that being done. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the department would lapse the funds, identify the funds, the reason that it was lapsed, that the program was straddled, and then we would reissue the funds to them, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

I would like to ask the Minister of Finance how would the funds be reissued to the department in the new fiscal year? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

They would be issued in a similar fashion as you're seeing right now, Mr. Chairman, and they would have to come back through the Standing Committee on Finance and the House again. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. In other words, Mr. Patterson, it goes to your committee. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, but that would be a new supp and a separate supplementary estimate. I guess I get back to my first question, since it would require a new supp to identify the funds, which I would support, by the way, when it comes forward, wouldn't the responsible thing be to recognize that we won't spend it this year and this bill should be amended by deleting that amount? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 699

John Pollard Hay River

I guess, Mr. Chairman, for the Minister's sake it's a lot easier for him to say I'm lapsing the funds but I'm going to need them in the next fiscal year. He has a sort of moral right to those funds, as opposed to starting from scratch again to make a submission to the Financial Management Board. Where priorities change over the course of a year, money gets tighter and so on and there's a lot of competition for money at the table at FMB; so by lapsing the money and saying I'm going to need it again, it gives the Minister a little bit more ground. But the process is still the same, Mr. Chairman, and if there's a need for deletion that can be done. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Well, I'll let it go, Mr. Chairman, because I do think it's a very worthwhile, long overdue initiative. I guess it does illustrate my point that the numbers before us, as much as possible, should be real numbers; and this number is higher than it needs to be. But I wouldn't want to deprive the Minister of his moral ground for such a worthwhile initiative. I think I've made my point. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We haven't changed the figure and we've wasted five minutes. Just kidding. Total department, special warrants, $368,500. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 699

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $2.309 million. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Municipal And Community Affairs

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On page 14 of Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations and maintenance, lands, not previously authorized -- this is something new, this is great -- $215,000. Agreed? Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if he could give us an explanation of the nature of this particular case regarding the GNWT and the town of Norman Wells. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in 1990, legal actions were filed in the Supreme Court against us and against the town of Norman Wells by a company called Wellex Limited and Kenaston Contractors Limited. They challenged our legal capacity and the town's legal capacity to levy fees and charges for operations and administration of the Norman Wells municipal quarries. Before this, the contractors had refused to pay the town's charges and thereby accumulated a large debt which the town subsequently attempted to recover through legal actions. When the town tried to get their money back through the courts, the contractors countersued the town and they included us in the suit. There was an examination of discovery, all parties had their lawyers there. After the examination of discovery, the Department of Justice for the Government of the Northwest Territories recommended that the matter be settled out of court. You may recall that we introduced new legislation to retroactively prevent any further such lawsuits, and that was passed in this House in an act in November of 1994.

So the legal settlements negotiated between the town of Norman Wells and the complainants are as follows: Wellex received $70,000 costs for losses and damages and $30,000 for legal fees; Kenaston received $20,000 costs for losses and damages and $10,000 in legal fees. There was also some $96,133.09 accepted by the town of Norman Wells to discontinue the action against the contractors. The upshot is that it cost us $215,000 to settle that particular court case. We learned a lesson, passed some legislation and hopefully nobody can do it to us again, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Lands, not previously authorized, $215,000. Agreed?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Total department, not previously authorized, $215,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, I mentioned to the Standing Committee on Finance this morning that there is $1.2 million that really should have been in this supp. It did not make it through the system and has not even gone to the Financial Management Board yet. The Standing Committee on Finance recommended this morning that we try to include it in this supplementary appropriation but until the Financial Management Board meets tomorrow morning, I won't have approval from them. Because we're dealing with the supp today, I can't meet the time line. So, I'll advise the House that, although it should have been a supp, it will probably end up as an overexpenditure by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in their water and sewer program of some $1.2 million. Just for the record, it's not something that's being buried, it's just that it got caught in a timing process. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Your point is duly noted by all Members of the committee. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 700

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, if this sizable amount is going to be overspent by the department, I wonder if now is the time to find what the cause of this overexpenditure was. I thought the rates had been jacked up amidst great public protest in the past year. Were the increased water rates, particularly commercial water rates, still not enough to balance the budget? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 700

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Patterson, I'm told this particular matter is not really before this committee but I'll perhaps -- though not making it a habit -- allow the Minister to respond. Mr. Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

I was going to say the same thing, Mr. Chairman. I was merely saying to the committee that there is a large amount of money that will eventually show up on our books and you will see it is an overexpenditure and I didn't want to appear to be underhanded and not say it should have been in this supp. It should have been. I didn't bring the details of the $1.2 million to the House, Mr. Chairman, recognizing that we couldn't discuss it. I admit that I've raised the issue and I believe, if you concur Mr. Chairman, that the Minister, Mr. Ng, does have some details in this regard.

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The Chair John Ningark

The appropriate time would be to do it during question period. Mr. Patterson, do you really want a response on this issue? Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Well, I'll defer to your advice, Mr. Chairman, that now is not the appropriate time. The Minister has given notice of the issue. But I will say that I would like to know what is going on because people already howled about the rate increases and now it appears they weren't enough. So I think, either through a Minister's statement or some other explanation, the public ought to find out what's going on. In the interests of carrying on with our work here today, I'll set my question aside for now. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the Minister can deal with it when his budget comes up before the House if that would be acceptable and we can provide the information to Members prior to that.

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The Chair John Ningark

Do we agree?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Where are we? Total department, $215,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Health

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. We're on page 15 of Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95, Health. Operations and maintenance, administration. Special warrants, not previously authorized, $33,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Health and hospital boards, special warrants, $2.414 million. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the chairman of SCOF and Mr. Patterson have already talked about the impact of SCOF not having all the information when reviewing the budget detail. This is one of the areas where I think it would have made a significant difference to what the committee might have reported to the House in its report on the main estimates if all of the information had been made available to us.

We were advised when we were going through the budgets that with health and hospital boards, there were going to be some significant cost savings; that in undertaking measures through using the nearest centre policy and the agreement with the Royal Alexandra Hospital, we were going to be saving significant dollars. Yet, when we see this supp come through it indicates that, in fact, the amount of money is not a savings in comparison to what had been expected.

Can the Minister advise, in the health and hospital boards task, what the proposed budget is for 1995-96?

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Finance.

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John Pollard Hay River

Yes, the amount of the task is $93.785 million, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake South.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Just Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that response. Mr. Chairman, when SCOF was reviewing its budget documents in January, the figure we had for health and hospital boards is shown in the left-hand column of the document we're examining today, which is $92.446 million. So when we look at the increase from $92.446 million to a proposed 1995-96 estimate of $93.785 million, it looks like a reasonable amount. It looks like we're perhaps accounting for inflation and increased use and it makes some sense.

In fact, by the time the Standing Committee on Finance was actually considering the budget of the department, if you take the special warrant into account, the expenditure under this task is, as shown in the document we have today, $94.860 million. Mr. Chairman, I would submit that the Standing Committee on Finance would have expressed some concern about how accurate a budgetary figure of $93 million could be for next year when we're spending more money this current year, unless the department could present to us some reason for the dollars to get down. In fact, we didn't get that kind of presentation and so now this appears to have been sprung on the committee and it throws into question our review of the main estimates.

I would like to ask the Minister how would he assess the impact of the special warrant and this task on the proposed budget of $93.785 million for next year?

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, we had anticipated some $3.2 million in savings as a result of the contract with the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Edmonton. And, therefore, we had not anticipated spending that money. The new current estimated savings relative to this agreement is approximately $600,000. That is where the shortfall has occurred. That is why there was a need for this supplementary appropriation.

The Department of Health is looking at this particular issue right now because we know the trend has changed away from the University Hospital and we know what the per diem rates are. We know they are much cheaper over at the Royal Alexandra Hospital. So the department is producing a report that will bring home to us the real impact of the Royal Alexandra Hospital contract. I am not absolutely sure that the money that has been requested by the department in 1995-96 will be the amount that will be required in this area. I can't say more than that, other than we are looking at this issue, Mr. Chairman.

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Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could the Minister advise when this report that he mentioned might be expected to be completed. The reason for the question is that since we have not yet considered the main estimates for the Department of Health and Social Services, would it be possible for us to get that report before the consideration is undertaken?

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Page 701

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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John Pollard Hay River

I had anticipated the report in late April or May, Mr. Chairman, so I really couldn't say that I could

get a report to this House by the time this budget is concluded. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Administration not previously authorized, $33,000. Where am I? Health and hospital boards, $2.414 million. This is a special warrant. Agreed?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Medical travel, $1.886 million. Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Minister what amount was budgeted for 1995-96 medical travel for the Department of Health and Social Services? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there's $16.134 million budgeted for 1995-96.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Patterson.

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Page 702

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think we have to ask again with this special warrant of $1.886 million, the previous year's actuals will be $19.4 million. I understand that the 1993-94 actuals were $19.246 million, about the same. How on earth are we going to spend $3.3 million less in the 1995-96 fiscal year?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, that is what the department is estimating. The increased use of Stanton Hospital is, I think, one of the influences upon them that suggests that there won't be as much need to travel as far. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, the department was wrong this past year by $1.8 million. What accounts for those increased costs? Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, yes, the department was out in this particular year but for good reason: there were price increases of $1.434 million and that's something that they're not allowed to put into their request for budget funds. Another $265,000 was the shortfall between what we are paying Larga boarding homes and what the federal government are reimbursing us for. We have asked for the department to come back to us on that one as well. The majority of the thing was the price increases in travel that they were legitimately allowed to come back and ask for an increase for. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps the place to ask these questions is when the main estimates come forward for the Department of Health. It seems to me that if there are serious shortfalls in the boarding home arrangements in Edmonton, then we have to understand how we can save $3 million from one year to the next. I would imagine it would take some kind of a miracle but I'll save those questions for the main estimates of the Department of Health.

I would like to ask the Minister, and short of echoing what Mr. Dent said, we got quite glowing reports about the nearest centre policy and the arrangement with the Royal Alexandra Hospital netting a savings. Did those two policies net the government savings and can the Minister indicate what those savings were?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 702

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, yes, in the nearest centre policy we did see the cost curve start to bend down with regard to the travel and of course, there was an increase in facilities at the Stanton Yellowknife Hospital and more people were working here and so on and so forth. With regard to the Royal Alex, as I said before, we anticipated in excess of $3 million worth of savings there and it seemed we only got $600,000 in the first year. That's what the department is working on right now; to try and find out why our projections were so far off, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Health and hospital boards, special warrant, $2.414 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Medical travel, special warrant, $1.886 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total departments, special warrants, $4.3 million.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Not previously authorized, $33,000.

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed Department Of Social Services

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. That concludes Health. Page 16, Social Services, operations and maintenance. The chair recognizes the Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On page 16, the special warrant, it's made up of $2.229 million for a social assistance program. Could the Minister advise why the need for this additional funding?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there were additional costs to us in the social assistance program. There's a greater uptake of social assistance by people in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If memory serves me right, again this is another example of where SCOF had bad information when they were considering this. If memory serves me right, our books at that time said that this had been approved in the 1994-95 budget for $7.035 million. And in the 1995-96 estimates, if I recall correctly, if is $6.993 million. Whereas, in fact, Mr. Chairman, with this special warrant, the actual cost in 1994-95 is $9.264 million. My question to the Minister is what does he know that the rest of us don't about the economy in the north that we're going to see less uptake in the year 1995-96 than we did in 1994-95?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, can I just ask Mr. Dent to repeat those numbers and tell me where he's getting them from, please?

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, where did you get the numbers?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, it would be better for me to handle this the same way that we did with health and hospital boards. Could I ask the Minister, under social assistance under the current year, how much was approved under the task social assistance for the current year of 1994-95?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, it came through in the main estimates as $28.905 million, revised forecast now is $31.744 million. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What is the 1995-96 estimate in the main estimates?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the House approves this particular number of $2.019 million that's before us right now, the revised forecast of 1994-95 number that I've just quoted you, which is presently $31.744 million will rise by that particular amount. So it will be $33 million. That's if the House approves the supp.

To answer the question specifically, in 1995-96 there is $31.244 million budgeted in this particular area, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My figures weren't quite the same, but my question still stands. We're budgeting less in 1995-96 than what was expended in 1994-95, so my question is what makes the Minister believe that there won't be as much uptake in 1995-96 as there was in 1994-95?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, I think the department has received a base adjustment now. They've claimed to be short for a number of years, and they will be tightening up in this particular area. I'm sure that when their budget comes before the House they'll point out the areas in which they're tightening up to prevent the spiral of this dollar value upwards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

So it's the Minister's position then that we really won't have any increased uptake and that by exerting better control we will be reducing the amounts of payments of social assistance.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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John Pollard Hay River

I'm hopeful that that is what the department will achieve, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 703

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I'll be very surprised, Mr. Chairman, if that happens. I had to admit that I was kind of suspecting that the Minister might say that this was a Minister of Finance initiative to force the department to come back and justify any increases. But I can only take the Minister at face value, I guess.

On the other part of this special warrant, under foster care, we're showing an increase in cost of $1.483 million. I believe that this increases the amount of expenditure for this task by over 50 per cent to what was approved in the main estimates. Could the Minister advise whether or not that's the case and, if so, what is the cause for the increase?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Department of Health and Social Services has statutory obligations under the Child Welfare Act. They have to investigate all complaints of child abuse and neglect. During the first six months, ending October 31, 1994, the number of investigations that they had had to deal with in this half a fiscal year surpassed the total for all of 1993-94. It has almost doubled the amount of children in care or investigations that have had to be done under this act, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has the department provided any indication as to the reason for the dramatic increase in this year's...Has the department indicated any reason for the increased number of apprehensions?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, I've been provided with all kinds of data with regard to why the extra money is required, et cetera, but the department has not come back to us yet with the reasons behind having to expend those extra funds. I'm hoping that they'll be able to come back to us and tell us just why this sudden jump has occurred in the last year. I don't have that information right now, Mr. Chairman, but when it becomes available I'm sure that the Minister will share it with the House. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, if memory serves me correctly, from the detailed document that SCOF reviewed in January, the amount proposed for 1995-96 was about the same as it was in the original main estimates for 1994-95. Is this another area where the Minister thinks that through better fiscal control we will apprehend fewer children next year so he can keep this budget low like the social assistance budget?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
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Page 704

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, in the social assistance budget it is a little different. We know that in there, there are some efficiencies to be gained if we have better communication links and so on. In this particular instance what we are seeing is a huge jump in one year, for reasons we don't know. I am not prepared, at this time, to say this trend is going to continue, but we should guess that there is going to be the same kind of requirement to investigate and apprehend children as there was this year. We are waiting to find out from the department exactly what happened. Let's just hope that this anomaly doesn't occur again; simply because if there is a trend and we are seeing more children requiring help and more children who need to be looked after by the government, then it bodes for an even greater social problem out there.

I am hoping that this was just a freak year and hopefully it won't happen again next year. If it does happen again next year and we have reasons to believe that it is going to continue, then we are going to have to address, at that time, what I would call a crisis, Mr. chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Social Services, operations and maintenance. The Chair continues to recognize Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could we find out the reason for the portion of this special warrant that relates to residential care?

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, there was an increase to the residential care per diem rate from $218.43 in 1993-94 to $230.32 in 1994-95. That was part of the reason for an increase. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Dent.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Has the per diem rate dropped? Again, if my recollection is correct, for the detail examination of SCOF, the amount proposed for 1995-96 is actually less then what was in the main estimates for 1994-95.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the largest part of the increase was in the number of bed days that went from 3,367 in 1993-94 to what we believe is going to be some 7,290 in 1994-95. So that, by far, was the largest amount of that particular dollar figure. I think it is $1.679 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Social Services, operations and maintenance, family support special warrants, $4.248 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, special warrants, $4.248 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Economic Development and Tourism, operations and maintenance, business development, special warrants, $480,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Not previously authorized, $8,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 704

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Economic Development and Tourism on page 18, operations and maintenance, economic development agreements, special warrants, $1.92 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Economic development agreement, not previously authorized, $2 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $2.4 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, not previously authorized, $2.008 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---agreed

Department Of Education, Culture And Employment

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair John Ningark

Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations and maintenance, directorate, special warrants, $123,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Culture and careers, special warrants, $3.345 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Educational development, special warrants, $1.032 million. The chair recognizes the Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask about culture and careers, with regard to increased student grants under the student financial assistance program. The special warrant that was issued on December 6, 1994 for this increase in grants for the student financial assistance program for $2.845 million, I would like to ask the Minister, this is quite a substantial increase. I always support helping students when they go to school. Why was this significant increase in student enrolments not anticipated during the previous main estimates? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the total enrolments in 1991-92 were 1,189; in 1992-93 it was 1,270; there was a large jump in 1993-94 to 1,668; and, 1994-95, 1,540 was the original estimate. It was revised up to 1,848 and then in 1995-96 it is projected to be 2,078. So, for some reason there have been a lot more students enroling and consequently the department had to come forward for a request in order to keep up with the enrolment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Educational development, special warrants, $1.032 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Educational development, not previously authorized, $169,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Education, Culture and Employment, operations and maintenance, page 21, total department special warrants, $4.5 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $169,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

An Hon. Member

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. The chair recognizes the Member for Iqaluit, Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on the shortfalls for various divisional boards of education -- and it has been explained to me that these costs are only a portion of the board costs that relate to services provided by the government -- I would like to ask the Minister of Finance there are some pretty healthy numbers here just from the detail provided to me, I see that the Keewatin divisional board overspent their budget by $740,000 last...No, $1.135 million last year. There was a sizeable overexpenditure in the South Slave the previous year, and $332,000 in the Sahtu. I'm just picking a few here from the information given to me.

Mr. Chairman, I guess what I would like to ask the Minister is, is there a policy in the Government of the Northwest Territories to require boards of education to manage their money through recovering deficits and allowing them to retain a portion of surpluses, the way we deal with hamlets, for example? I know there are incentives of that kind in place. Does the Department of Education have similar incentives to encourage good financial management for divisional boards of education? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 705

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Mr. Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

John Pollard Hay River

I would ask if the Minister of Education could answer that question please, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Minister of Education, Mr. Nerysoo.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In fact, Mr. Chairman, we allow the boards to retain all their surpluses at this particular juncture. There are no reductions in the surpluses. The problem that we've had in some cases is there has been overutilization of the resources to the point where they've overexpended and created positions for which they are now liable; in other words, permanent positions. That has caused some of the problems we're encountering right now. There are more people hired than really should be, based on the normal formula. We do not restrict the ability of the boards to hire additional staff on a term basis but that has not been happening in some situations. In fact, what has been happening is they have been hiring permanent positions and we have the responsibility and liability.

Mr. Chairman, we've also sent direction that there is a need to establish recovery plans for all boards who are in a deficit position and we have, as a department, been working with them. We believe it's their responsibility to manage the resources that they receive and, therefore, they should be responsible for a recovery plan. The problem with that is sometimes all schools suffer in the process but it's a necessary evil, as part of the responsibility you assume for managing money.

One other point, Mr. Chairman, is there was a concern about the liability for long-term staff but we pick up, as a government, those liabilities and costs, full costs.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. The chair continues to recognize Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I note the Minister of Education states that boards are allowed to recover all surpluses but this document suggests that some of these costs have been offset and would have been double, had it not been for the recovery of divisional board surpluses. So it looks to me, in 1994-95 at least, that the boards that did manage their money wisely and did achieve surpluses were robbed to help the ones that overspent. Is that not what the document says, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Chairman, the supplementary appropriation that's before us deals with direct service funding shortfalls and I think the Minister of Education was talking about the overall surpluses and deficits of the boards. In the one before us right now, if there is a funding shortfall, we cover it for a board. If there is a surplus, then we take the surplus back. This is different than the area the Minister was discussing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Patterson.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to get further clarification from the Minister of Education, he says that direction has been given that boards have to have a recovery plan where they're in a deficit. Is this just a request of the board or is that request backed up by a reduction of the grant in order to make up the shortfall? Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Minister Pollard.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

John Pollard Hay River

I think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Patterson directed that question directly to the Minister of Education. Thank you.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Minister Nerysoo.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. On the matter of financial matters, a directive can be issued by the Minister to a board in those particular matters. The other point is, there is no reduction in the formula. In fact, what we ask is based on the formula that has been assigned; formula dollars. They have to develop a recovery plan for that board, whether it is the South Slave divisional board or the Keewatin. They are responsible for developing the recovery plan. We, as a department, work in conjunction with those boards so we have a sense of where it is they are going to reduce their liabilities. One of the problems we've had is we've had expenditures that have far exceeded the revenues; in other words, far exceeded the amount of money they're actually allocated.

I just want to be clear in the context of the comments made by Mr. Pollard. The dollars you are looking at, where it reads they are offset by recovery of divisional board surpluses, are not surpluses of the formula dollars. These are the actual number of dollars voted for O and M, DPW costs, and those kinds of associated costs. What happened is, in some cases the dollars were assigned to various boards and we found we had surpluses in that area and had shortfalls in the three boards before us. So we could then reassign the dollars because we didn't need to spend them on O and M costs in other regions.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Educational development, special warrants, $1.032 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Educational development, not previously authorized, $169,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $4.5 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 706

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, not previously authorized, $169,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Personnel

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Page 22, Department of Personnel, capital. Staffing, special warrants, $358,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Staffing, total department, special warrants, $358,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Justice

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Justice, capital, activity, corrections, not previously authorized, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Safety And Public Services

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Safety and Public Services, capital, safety, not previously authorized, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, negative $1,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Public Works And Services

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Public Works and Services, capital, buildings and works, not previously authorized, negative $35,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, not previously authorized, negative $35,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Transportation

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Transportation, capital, transportation planning, not previously authorized, negative $103,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $103,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Renewable Resources

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Renewable Resources, environmental protection, not previously authorized, negative $7,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Field operations, not previously authorized, negative $2,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $9,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Municipal And Community Affairs

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Municipal and Community Affairs, capital, community works and capital planning, not previously authorized, negative $213,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Community planning, not previously authorized, negative $100,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 707

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Sports and recreation, special warrants, $200,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $200,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, not previously authorized, negative $313,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Health

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Department of Health, capital, territorial health insurance services, not previously authorized, negative $20,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, negative $20,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Social Services

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Social Services, capital, family support, not previously authorized, negative $14,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Total department, not previously authorized, negative $14,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Economic Development And Tourism

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Department of Economic Development and Tourism, capital, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, negative $28,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $28,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Department Of Education, Culture And Employment

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Final page, 32, Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital, culture and careers, not previously authorized, $1.189 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Educational development, not previously authorized, $197,000.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $1.386 million.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. The chair recognizes the Member for Kitikmeot, Mr. Ng.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

We have a motion on the floor to report progress which is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. I shall rise and report to the Speaker.

Bill 21: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95
Item 18: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. We're on item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Whitford.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 708

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 21 and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Seconder? Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 708

An Hon. Member

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Nerysoo.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 709

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise on a point of privilege.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 709

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Nerysoo, your point of privilege.

Point Of Privilege

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 709

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege under rule 20(1). Mr. Speaker, in accordance with this rule, I have provided you with a copy of an article from the March 20th Yellowknifer. The article is by Doug Schmidt. The words that concern me are in the second caption that states, "Speaker gags MLAs from negative character references."

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege and I guess I could quote Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms, 6th edition, citation 168(1). Your role, Mr. Speaker, is to guide this Assembly and it's Members through debate, then make judgements about the rules or to present a decision on matters relating to the rules, privileges and procedures of this House. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask that Members review the headline and, in doing so, recognize that what comes out of this headline is the insinuation that you have gagged Members of this House. I find it offensive as you have not gagged Members as that would be denying our freedom of speech. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Members are not permitted to reflect on the character or action of the Speaker. If we do, we may be punished as a breach of privileges.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to point this out because those same kinds of punishments have historically been given to reporters, newspapers and other media vehicles or mediums. I think, Mr. Speaker, you should review this particular matter and, in fact, ask that the paper take care in the words that they use that might mislead the public and appear to criticize you, sir, for whom I think we all have a great deal of respect, not only for yourself but for the position that you hold. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 709

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I want to thank you, Mr. Nerysoo, for that point. Your point is well taken and I'm sure the media is aware of it through the Hansard and, if they're listening, through our PA systems too. Thank you. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 29, Interim Appropriation Act, April 1 - June 30, 1995, be read for the third time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

An Hon. Member

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 29 has had third reading. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 709

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance at 9:00 am tomorrow morning, of the Ordinary Members' Caucus at 10:30 am and a full Caucus briefing at 12:00 noon.

Orders of the day for Thursday, March 30, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

- Motion 16, Setting of Sitting Hours by Speaker

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 31, Recall Act

18. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and

Executive Council Act

- Bill 30, Deficit Elimination Act

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters - Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96

- Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Fair Practices Act

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Retirement Plan

Beneficiaries Act

- Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Elections Act, No. 2

- Bill 21, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1994-95

- Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative

Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the

Northwest Territories

- Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the

Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage

Legislation for the Northwest Territories

- Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the

1995-96 Main Estimates

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Elections Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 710

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, March 30, 1995, at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT