Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ballantyne.

Mr. Speaker, I, like I'm sure everybody in the House, will support this motion. I would like to thank both the mover and the seconder for putting this motion forward. I think it is a very important motion.

It was just recently, where there was actually a case here in the Northwest Territories where the defence counsel put forward this defence. I will speak for myself. I was happy to hear that there was, in my opinion, a very good decision made by the judge and that that defence wasn't allowed to be used here in the Northwest Territories.

However, it caused tremendous concern across the country, and I think it really brought to the forefront some very important issues that Canadians have been talking about for a number of years. It brought to the forefront a number of frustrations that Canadians have had for a number of years.

I, for one, think that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms has done a lot of good things, and I think that in many cases it has enriched our society.

On the other hand, unfortunately, some of the more sordid people in our society have been able to hide behind the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and they have been able to use it as a defence for their otherwise criminal actions. A lot of Canadians have been upset about that over the years.

A lot of Canadians have also been upset that elected representatives, because of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, seem to be powerless in dealing with many of these issues, that in fact there were judges, not elected officials, who were dealing with the very pressing social issues that we, as Canadians, are dealing with every day. So, I, for one, applaud Minister Rock in taking command of this situation as an elected official, saying loudly and clearly that elected people do still have the where withal to respond to legitimate concerns of Canadians and to bring forward legislation which will hopefully put some limits on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I, for one, think that, at the end of the day, unless we do put some limits on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that particular bill, that that particular very important part of our constitution, will lose an increasing amount of respect.

So, I think this is a very important step. What it does is say that the Canadian government and our Legislative Assembly really strongly believe that nobody who drinks too much by their own irresponsible decision has the right to harm anybody else.

Agreed.

Finally, we have a government in Canada and a Minister in this country who are willing to take the bull by the horns and to take definitive steps to support the rights of women across this country. So I very strongly support the initiative taken by Minister Rock, and, again, I strongly support this motion here in our Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

---Applause

To the motion. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My hat's off and my salute goes to the mover of the motion, Mr. Jim Antoine, and the seconder of the motion, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi. I find the two movers of the motion to be very gentle people. I know they look after their families, and I think people across the country in particular jurisdictions should be made aware of that, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, when I was growing up, my parents died when I was very young. It was my sister who is four years older than I am who brought me up. She looked after me as though I was her son, but sometimes she and I have had disagreements. I know it was between brother and sister. So, Mr. Speaker, when I go from my apartment to the Legislative Assembly about every other day by foot, I see mothers bringing their kids to school, going across the street to make sure they are safe. Also, Mr. Speaker, the most innocent people in human society are children. The givers of life in this human society are the mothers. They nurture their kids from the time they are born until they are old enough to look after themselves. Mr. Speaker, in most cases, when the husband or common-law husband is under the influence of the evils of alcohol, the victims are those children and the wives in a household. This is not acceptable in this society, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we have passed zero tolerance in this particular Legislature. The public out there is expecting us to do something about it, and this is one way that we can send a message to the federal government, to other jurisdictions and to cowardly drunks who, in most cases, beat their wives. The behaviour at this point in time of those people who are under the influence of alcohol is unacceptable. I will support the motion and I will urge my colleagues to do the same. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Very often we blame judges. You know, judges are terrible people who make bad decisions, and so on, which the public can't understand, but all judges really do is interpret the laws that politicians pass in their Legislatures across this country. Sometimes we create a law which may be open to several interpretations and it is then up to judges to decide what is the real intent. So we can't just simply blame the clever people in the Supreme Court of Canada because they have come up with a decision. It is something that they do as a matter of duty, they put a lot of thought into it and they look at the law that they are asked to interpret. So I also commend Mr. Rock, who is a politician, who can see this problem and is going to fix it.

The bigger problem though, Mr. Speaker, is the problem within our society and how we do not take responsibility. It is the height of immaturity to say that I did not know what I was doing. It wasn't me; it was that other person who becomes somebody else once he's done this or done that. I have heard this so many times in my life where somebody has asked me, what did I do last night? Explain to me what happened. I find that very difficult to understand. I was there. The other person was there. He seemed quite conscious about all the things that he was doing and yet, for some reason, he believes that there were two people in the room, him and this other guy who somehow he doesn't identify with. I just can't understand that and I've heard it so many times.

It's nothing to do with relationships to women or relationships to children. It is to do with the fact that individuals won't take responsibility for their actions. I have heard it so many times now that I find it probably one of the endemic problems in our society, that individuals always want to blame somebody else, blame this, blame that and don't take responsibility themselves for their own actions. We are sovereign.

When you look at a bottle and it's a bottle of alcohol -- I have mentioned this before; I remember Ted Trindell saying this in Simpson years ago -- if you check the fingerprints on that bottle that someone is getting drunk out of, the only set of fingerprints are going to be those of the guy who is drinking it. That's whose fingerprints are on the bottle. Don't blame somebody else. You had the choice, and you did it. I believe that if we can't get to some stage where we don't accept that individuals have individual responsibility for their actions, then no amount of laws or everything else is going to make any difference. It is individual responsibility that matters more than anything else, and that is where we have to start. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lewis. To the motion.

Question.

Recorded vote.

Recorded vote. Mr. Nerysoo, sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't want to take up too much time of the Assembly, but I did want to say a few words about this particular matter.

Mr. Speaker, I heard on a number of occasions where my colleagues have stood up in this House and spoke eloquently about the importance of all of us to consider the values and the manner by which we make judgements about our society. Most Members here have probably heard about a recent case in my constituency where an argument of this type was made for the defence of an individual.

I don't want to make judgements about the individual; what I do want to say is that the attack was perpetuated on an elder.

My colleague, Mr. Ningark, spoke about the innocence of the young -- our children -- and mothers, but we must also recognize the innocence of our elderly because it is they who established our community for us and have provided us with a great deal of leadership and have probably taken us through more difficult times than any other group of people in our communities today. They have gone from driving dog teams to sitting in houses at home, sometimes isolated from their families and often abused. Not abused in the sense that it was based on violence or physical abuse.

The fact is that now we are seeing a situation where we are somehow creating an environment where people agree the drunkenness itself is the basis for arguing that harm can be bestowed upon others. As Mr. Lewis has pointed out, I think we need to create a situation where there is maturity in our communities. We have to teach our young that it is wrong to use these arguments as the basis for their irresponsibility. Mr. Speaker, I think this Assembly, having taken the position it has, is showing that we are not prepared to accept that immaturity or irresponsibility should be the basis of putting others in harm. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear, hear.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. To the motion. Mr. Antoine, you have the opportunity for closing remarks. Do you have any?

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to say that this amendment that the federal Minister of Justice is amending is a good amendment. It will help society keep people in the society from using extreme drunkenness as a defence for actions that they take when they commit crimes against society. I would like to urge all Members to support this motion. Mahsi.

---Applause

Thank you. To the motion.

Question.

Recorded vote.

Question is being called and there is a request for a recorded vote. All of those in favour of the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Mr. Antoine, Ms. Mike, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ng, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Zoe. Mr. Koe.

All those opposed to the motion, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote is 18 yes, zero no, and zero abstentions. This motion is passed unanimously.

---Carried

---Applause

When we reconvened after recess, I went to item 16, when I should have gone to item 15. My mistake, I apologize. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Madam Premier.

Thank you. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Bill 1, Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96; Committee Report 2-12(7), Report on the Legislative Action Paper on the Office of Ombudsman for the Northwest Territories; Committee Report 3-12(7), Report on the Review of the Legislative Action Paper Proposing New Heritage Legislation for the Northwest Territories; and, Committee Report 4-12(7), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Main Estimates, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.