This is page numbers 431 - 457 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was area.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, the committee will come to order. What is the wish of the committee, Mr. Dent?

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that the committee continue consideration of Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7) and specifically move into consideration of the budget for the Department of Renewable Resources.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Does the committee agree that we deal with Bill 1 and Committee Report 4-12(7), specifically to deal with the Department of Renewable Resources?

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

March 2nd, 1995

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Some Hon. Members

Department Of Renewable Resources

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Is the Minister for the Department of Renewable Resources prepared to deal with his department? Mr. Minister.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, Mr. Chairman. May I proceed with my opening remarks?

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The Chair John Ningark

Yes, Mr. Minister.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, committee Members. Mr. Chairman, over the past few years, the Department of Renewable Resources has been listening to

what people in communities have been saying. We have heard three main messages:

1. We want to be involved in the management of our resources;

2. We want to increase benefits from the resources in our back yard; and,

3. We want our resources to be healthy and productive.

The Department of Renewable Resources has responded to these messages in a number of ways. Today, I would like to note some of our achievements and review our plans for 1995-96.

Increased Involvement In Managing Resources

Mr. Chairman, northerners want to regain their traditional role as caretakers of the environment and resources. This has been the reason for the establishment of renewable resource management boards under land claim agreements. The boards work with departmental staff on local and regional management programs and priorities.

Outside of land claim areas, the department seeks ways to provide the same opportunities. We encourage involvement in resource planning. For example, the 1995-96 budget includes a request for $250,000 and one person year to provide assistance to communities that are developing integrated resource management plans in the South Slave and Deh Cho.

To participate in decision-making, northerners must be kept informed. We do this by attending meetings of local and regional organizations, hiring local assistants for research programs and inviting harvesters to attend national or international meetings. As well, we have offered to establish agreements with communities so that local renewable resource officers can report to them.

One program area where we need to improve community involvement in decision-making is forest fire management. We heard this message at all the meetings we attended in December 1994 and January 1995. In 1995-96, we hope to implement some of the suggestions that we heard.

In addition to supporting the direct involvement of harvesters in renewable resources management, the Department of Renewable Resources has also been training northerners to work as resource managers. For example, two northerners became biologists after successfully completing university degrees as part of their training programs. We also have two senior management training positions, six renewable resource officer trainees and one forest management technician trainee. As well, we provide advice to Arctic College on training needs that the renewable resource training programs should fulfil. As part of planning for division, in 1995-96, we will develop a training plan for Nunavut as required under the final agreement.

Increasing Benefits From Renewable Resources

In 1994, the renewable resource development strategy was approved. The strategy provides an approach for managing and using our wildlife, fish and forests. The strategy promotes local employment opportunities, economic self-reliance and local influence over the pace of development. I am particularly proud of two achievements under this strategy. The first was a successful lobby trip to Europe last May to request a one-year delay in the implementation of the European fur import regulation. The second achievement is the fur pricing program, which establishes a minimum price for good quality wild fur. With the introduction of this program, more people are trapping again. To respond to demands for more training in fur harvesting and handling techniques, the department's 1995-96 budget includes the addition of one person year and $100,000.

In the eastern Arctic, we have been working hard to promote the sealing and fishing industry. This past year, in cooperation with Economic Development and Tourism, we researched consumer interest in seal and sealskin products. In 1995-96, we are working with the Broughton Island tannery and residents on a pilot project to produce and market these examples of high quality products. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I would like to pass out some samples of products that are being produced.

Mr. Chairman, we are providing seal pelts to the tannery through the fur pricing program. We are also investigating options for using the seal meat, since our objective is to ensure maximum use of the whole seal.

Although we have no responsibility for fisheries management, we are very active in representing the rights of territorial fishermen to have access to northern marine resources. This has not been easy because Atlantic fishermen have been looking north since the collapse of the Atlantic cod fishery. In 1995-96, through the Atlantic Council of Fisheries Ministers, I will continue to fight for our harvesters' rights. I am also requesting $125,000 and one person year to identify more opportunities for harvest and for enhancing native fish stocks.

Since 1992, the value of the territorial timber harvest has gone from $2 million to over $10 million. Harvest levels should increase again in 1995-96. To respond, the department is requesting an additional two person years and $225,000 to expand its forest inventory programs to ensure that harvests are sustainable.

Some of the activities planned for 1995-96 are to complete the community inventories requested by Fort Providence and Wrigley, to identify some areas for commercial harvest, and to begin a larger, three-year inventory program around Hay River. The department will continue tree planting and thinning programs. These forest management programs will result in approximately 30 to 50 seasonal jobs, and training courses will be held to prepare community residents for these employment opportunities.

Mr. Chairman, muskox, caribou and wood bison continue to increase. The department has been working with communities and other GNWT departments to develop sustainable and profitable commercial enterprises and also fulfil subsistence needs. Muskox harvests are planned for mid March around Holman and Cambridge Bay. Another excellent opportunity for commercial meat harvest and outfitting is the Southampton caribou herd. In 1995-96, we will invest $175,000 to assist Coral Harbour to develop this resource and manage this herd.

We will also conduct a population survey this year to determine what the harvest should be to prevent possible overpopulation.

For three years, the GNWT has invested in the Hanging Ice Bison Ranch. The people in Fort Smith are now starting to see the potential economic value of the wood bison at the ranch. To ensure that maximum benefits go to the community in 1995-96, the department will work with residents to develop a community management committee for the ranch.

Our regional staff are extremely important in promoting local opportunities for renewable resource development. Through land claim implementation funding, we have hired five additional staff for these purposes where land claim agreements are completed. As well, Mr. Chairman, we have assessed the workloads and locations of regional staff.

To begin making the allocation of staff more equitable and assist local renewable resource development, we propose to add four part-time and two full-time renewable resource officer positions this year in Aklavik, Arctic Bay, Tsiigehtchic, Baker Lake, Fort Providence and Holman Island. Where possible, we will hire and train local residents.

Keeping Our Resources Healthy And Productive

Northern cultures have always known that their own health and wealth depend upon a healthy environment. It is good to know that the rest of the world is catching on to this idea which they call "sustainable development." Since northerners request repeatedly that economic development activities must not harm the environment, I believe that one role of the Department of Renewable Resources is to help communities and industry make decisions that will keep our environment and renewable resources healthy.

One way we do this is by establishing environmental protection guidelines. In 1995-96, we will complete dust suppression guidelines, conduct public consultation on guidelines for the transport, handling and storage of hazardous waste and work towards draft guidelines on tannery and agricultural waste.

Another service we provide is environmental impact assessment. Departmental staff regularly review land and water-use proposals, identify potential environmental problems and recommend operating conditions to protect the environment. We also conduct studies to collect information needed to assess proposals or develop mitigation methods.

Mr. Chairman, with the increased mineral development activity in the area between Great Slave Lake and the Arctic Ocean, we are allocating an additional $225,000 and one person year in 1995-96 toward research and management programs. We plan to continue our program to identify critical wildlife habitat and develop habitat protection options. Another major activity in 1995-96 related to environmental impact assessment will be to coordinate the government's involvement in the review of the BHP diamond mine proposal.

The department also monitors contaminants in our environment. These studies will continue in 1995-96 and practical information guides for hunters and trappers will be released.

Mr. Chairman, honourable Members, these remarks provide some insight into the changes we are making. As the Minister of Renewable Resources, I want departmental programs and services to meet the cultural and economic needs of our people. I have heard that people want a choice of futures for themselves and their children and that is what I intend to provide. Qujannamiik.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, honourable Minister. On behalf of the Standing Committee on Finance that has reviewed the departmental estimates, we have a presenter. Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I make comments for the Standing Committee on Finance, I wonder if I could request, through you, Mr. Chairman, if the Minister would provide copies of his opening remarks to Members of this committee.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Honourable Minister, are you going to be able to provide a copy of your opening remarks to Members of the committee?

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I believe they are being prepared now and will be handed out.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe, Mr. Zoe, that your request has been attended to. Proceed with your comments.

Standing Committee On Finance Comments

Inter-Departmental Projects

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I will be presenting the Standing Committee on Finance review of this particular department, the Department of Renewable Resources. Mr. Chairman, the committee noted a number of projects where the Department of Renewable Resources is working jointly with other departments, especially Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, and Economic Development and Tourism. In dealings with other governments, both within Canada and beyond, a cooperative, unified approach can only strengthen the Government of the Northwest Territories' position and the potential for a positive outcome.

This approach is particularly important in the upcoming Environmental Assessment Review Panel. The committee is pleased with the cooperative and close work currently under way between this department and the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. Members hope this joint approach will continue throughout the review presentation process.

Forest Fire Management

In the report on the 1994-95 main estimates, the committee wrote: "The committee recognizes that 1993 was a bad year for forest fires in the Northwest Territories. The department was forced to spend $16 million on forest fire suppression last year, instead of the $7 million budgeted. While committee Members realize that the number and size of fires to fight is completely out of the department's control, we would like to see an analysis of the costs of fire suppression since the job of fighting forest fires was taken over from the federal government. It may well be that the yearly ups and downs in forest fire expenditures are "balancing out" over time; however, if we are continually spending more than we budget over the long run, we should know that now."

Again in 1994, it was a disastrous year for northern forests. Extremely dry conditions across the western Arctic led to an expenditure for fire suppression of over $27 million when only $7 million was budgeted. The Minister indicated that the $7 million in the budget is only a holding figure.

As one Member indicated, "Budgets are supposed to be realistic representations of where you expect to spend your money." Where the amount of an expenditure cannot be determined, it is crucial that the department use a figure which is the best estimate of the potential cost. The committee reviewed fire suppression costs for the past seven years and discovered an average cost of almost twice the budgeted amount. While the committee does not expect the department to be able to predict the number and severity of fires in a year, it is not acceptable that the Department of Renewable Resources use a holding figure for fire suppression which is not based on recent trends.

Mr. Chairman, in response to this concern, the chairman of the Financial Management Board suggested that if the budget figure was that of an average year's suppression costs, it might be difficult to control spending in a year of low forest fire activity. The committee's response is that such a concern should not force the use of inaccurate figures in the budget; rather, it points out the need to better control expenditures to ensure that managers are to spend as little as necessary to carry out their programs, rather than merely to come as close to spending their entire allotment as possible.

Recommendation 8

Therefore, Mr. Chairman, our committee made recommendation 8. The committee recommends that the Department of Renewable Resources provide a more accurate estimate for fire suppression expenditures; and further, that amendments to Appropriation Act No. 2, 1995-96, be introduced to reflect this revised fire suppression figure.

Environmental Protection

Mr. Chairman, committee Members expressed concern about the way in which the Department is moving towards taking over the federal responsibility for environmental protection in the north such as monitoring air quality. The federal government has a clear responsibility for environmental protection in the Northwest Territories. The potential cost of a single large-scale environmental disaster would place the territorial government in serious financial difficulty. Therefore, the department must avoid taking over tasks which are clearly the federal government's responsibility. The department must also work closely with the federal government in order to ensure that there is no duplication of effort and that the federal government carries out its legislated responsibility in the Northwest Territories. There should be no "grey areas" where neither side is clear about where the responsibility lies.

Support For The Fur Industry

Mr. Chairman, committee Members continue to support the ongoing work being carried out by the department in the area of renewable resource development and, in particular, the fur industry in the north. We are pleased to see initiatives such as the fur pricing system and the lobbying efforts with European parliamentarians regarding the potential violation of the GATT if fur imports are banned. The committee is convinced that the government must continue to lobby for the acceptance of the Northwest Territories quick kill traps by the International Standards Organization.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes the response from the Standing Committee on Finance. Before I turn over the microphone to go into general comments, I would like to move recommendation 8.

Committee Motion 31-12(7): To Adopt Recommendation 8, Carried
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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

I move that the committee recommends that the Department of Renewable Resources provide a more accurate estimate for fire suppression expenditures; and further, that amendments to Appropriation Act No. 2, 1995-96, be introduced to reflect this revised fire suppression figure.

Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. I see that there isn't a quorum in the House. I will ring the bells to bring in the Members. There is a motion on the floor. It is recommendation 8 in the form of a motion. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Zoe.

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Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That concludes the remarks of the Standing Committee on Finance pertaining to the Department of Renewable Resources. Mahsi.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Zoe. Before I open the floor for general comments, I would like to offer the Minister a choice of either bringing in witnesses or not. Mr. Minister.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Yes, I would prefer to bring in witnesses if I may.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Would the Sergeant-at-Arms bring in the witnesses, please.

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq, for the record, please introduce the witnesses.

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Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is Mr. Joe Handley who is the deputy minister of Renewable Resources; to my immediate right is Rick Feil who is the director of finance; and, to my far right is Marius Tungilik who is the Nunavut senior advisor for Renewable Resources. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the committee, gentlemen. The floor is open for general comments. We are dealing with the Department of Renewable Resources 1995-96 main estimates. Do we have any general comments from the Members of the committee? Shall we go into detail? Mr. Koe.

General Comments