This is page numbers 793 - 819 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was services.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

April 3rd, 1995

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Some Hon. Members

Northwest Territories Housing Corporation

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee agrees. We shall begin right after the break. We shall take a short break at the call of the chair.

---SHORT RECESS

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Would the Minister responsible for Housing like to take the witness chair and invite witnesses to assist you?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, yes.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Does the committee agree?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses.

There's too much sunlight out there, my eyes are starting to get sore. Welcome, Mr. Minister, to committee of the whole. Would you be so kind as to introduce your witnesses to the committee.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Mr. Al Menard, president of the Housing Corporation and to my left is Mr. Jim Nelson, vice-president of finance. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. When we concluded with the Housing Corporation yesterday, I think we were into detail. We were almost there.

Line By Line

I think we were on page 03-12, Housing Corporation. That's where we can begin. NWT Housing Corporation, total O and M, $62.035 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Details of grants and contributions, total contributions, $62.035 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Grants and contributions, $62.035 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Pages 03-14 and 03-15, information items, pro forma income statement and distribution of budget. We're back to 03-11, program summary. Total O and M, $62.035 million.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. That concludes the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation's budget. Does everybody agree?

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank the Members of the Legislative Assembly for passing the budget and I would like to thank the Housing Corporation staff for putting the budget together. Thank you.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Minister and thank you, witnesses, for assisting the committee in this matter.

Department Of Justice

Now we shall move to the Department of Justice. Is the honourable Minister Kakfwi prepared to make some opening comments? HON. STEPHEN KAKFWI: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Bill 1: Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1995-96Committee Report 4-12(7): Report On The Review Of The 1995-96 Main Estimates
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Proceed.

Minister's Introductory Remarks

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to present the Department of Justice budget for consideration by the committee. Members will note that there is an overall increase of $5.211 million from the original 1994-95 main estimates. Almost all of the increase relates to forced growth, particularly within the areas of policing and corrections. The pressure has not allowed for the inclusion of any new initiatives within the Department of Justice.

This budget has been a most challenging one to develop as significant demands continue to be placed on the justice system. At the same time, there are few resources available to support rising costs. The major emphasis recently has been placed on exploring new ways to develop services that will have a positive impact on society. An example of this is the creation of the envelope committee process.

The social envelope committee, as has been discussed with Members, has allowed for an opportunity to improve communication and working together on areas of common interest. This harmonization should not only improve efficiencies and economies, but also improve the level of service in meeting the needs and expectations of the residents of the Northwest Territories. We need to work more effectively with what we have collectively. There are strong indications we may have less to collectively work with in the not-too-distant future.

With respect to forced growth, the restoration of appropriate funding levels to the RCMP is a priority. Events over the last years have demonstrated the limitations of the existing ability of the RCMP to respond to current operational demands. This was an area of significant concern to Members in the fall of last year. Members will recall the RCMP presentation that was given to members on RCMP health and safety issues. The need to restore RCMP resource levels to the "base level" contemplated in the RCMP contract is clear.

There are other initiatives ongoing which could affect the policing budget and how services are delivered. There are two pilot projects under way, one in Coral Harbour and one in Fort Good Hope. These projects depend on local community members, trained by the RCMP, to assist the RCMP in carrying out their policing duties. A related initiative being negotiated with the federal government is the First Nations community policing initiative. This program requires greater participation at the community level in the expectations of policing services in the community.

In the area of the provision of legal aid, there is growing pressure to open a legal aid clinic in Inuvik to service the Gwich'in area. The legal services board has approved this initiative and it makes good sense, both fiscally and from a service delivery perspective, to open a clinic. At the same time, despite many efforts to control costs, additional resources are needed to cover the costs of legal aid services to clients.

Increased funding is needed to sustain the existing operations with the court system. The needs of the courts are not controllable, at least over the short term. For the medium and longer term, means to streamline the existing court process are being explored. Ways to reduce or eliminate unnecessary work and control costs generally, are under active discussion with all interested parties, including the police, the judiciary and prosecutions. Also being discussed are the implications of expanding the role of the justices of the peace court. Most importantly, significant partnerships are emerging in relation to community justice initiatives, with linkages to the community wellness initiative. These partnerships could, over the long term, help control the escalation of court-related costs.

Our objective, realistically, is to work towards trying to make sure things don't get worse. There is some potential for reductions, but only if the community significantly buys into a process for change. The funding in corrections is needed to sustain existing conventional correctional facilities at acceptable levels.

Members will recall discussions during the review of capital estimates about the intention to move towards a community-based facility model. This will be the most significant step towards achieving increased aboriginal responsibility for justice administration in the north. Communities have consistently indicated that dealing with offenders is where the most significant community contribution can be made. The government is still very committed to this course. However, institutional responses will remain appropriate for many inmates.

A review of the corrections program has now been initiated to address the most appropriate mix of resources between existing conventional facilities and new community-based initiatives. This will be done simultaneously with preliminary work commencing on establishing the community-based initiatives.

The intent of this approach is that offenders would remain part of the community, and the community would share in the responsibility of teaching them how to learn more appropriate behaviours. Where possible, facilities and programs developed under this initiative will be broadly designed to address the needs of people in conflict with the law, with their communities and with themselves. This, hopefully, will result in a positive approach to respond to communities that have expressed interest in multiple use for facilities and programs.

Expenditure reductions proposed the following total $224,000.

Under the criminal injuries compensation program, compensation is paid to individuals who have been victims of criminal acts. The program was initiated 20 years ago on the instigation of the federal government. It was set up on a cost-shared basis. Three years ago, the federal government unilaterally withdrew its funding from this program right across

the country. Since that time, some other jurisdictions have decided to cancel their programs.

Under the circumstances, I feel I have no option but to recommend this program be cancelled. This cancellation will require an amendment to the Criminal Compensation Act.

Current recipients of periodic payments would continue to be paid. Outstanding applications and applications received up until the effective cancellation of the program would be dealt with in the regular manner.

The funds at issue with respect to the interpreters training program are Vote 1 funds. These have been specifically budgeted in support of the Vote 4 court interpreter training budget that has recently been significantly reduced by the federal government.

With respect to resources for the implementation of the community wellness initiative, there are no new resources specifically labelled "community wellness" in this document. However, there are resources within the department -- in particular, resources devoted to community justice -- directly related to wellness. The approach underlying community justice, that of supporting communities in assuming responsibility and devising their own solutions to problems, is exactly the approach of the wellness initiative.

Further, the proposed community action fund, previously discussed with members of the social envelope committee, would be established to respond to the need to provide resources to community-initiated projects. It is significant that the members of the social envelope committee are proposing the creation of a single fund that could fund projects as diverse as school-linked early intervention services for children on one hand, and family violence specific initiatives on the other. The common characteristic of the projects would be that they are both the result of a specific community identifying their own specific priorities for their community. This is an approach that I support.

This approach holds the most promise for turning things around. We are satisfied that community action is the key to reducing the numbers of people going through the justice system. Our goal is to develop community partnerships that will reduce the threat of continued forced growth in this area.

The Department of Justice is actively working in concert with other departments within the social envelope and with other organizations, to develop common approaches to dealing with social problems, to eliminate artificial barriers and, as much as possible, move increased responsibility into the hands of communities who demonstrate the desire and capacity to undertake a measure of control that has been, over the years, removed from them.

Mr. Chairman, I invite Members of this committee to examine in detail the 1995-96 budget of the Department of Justice, and I will answer any questions with the support of my staff. Thank you.