This is page numbers 1250 - 1278 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Stewart, legal counsel.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Member has indicated, the motion has the effect of requiring the Legislative Assembly to make a determination of whether or not it is in the public interest and in the interest of the Legislative Assembly to expel the Member if he or she is found guilty of and is discharged of either an indictable or a summary conviction offence. It is broken into two paragraphs because the present Bill 32 deals with each type of offence separately.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Allooloo.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Titus Allooloo Amittuq

Mr. Chairman, how is this amendment different from the original? Could somebody explain to me what the differences are between the motion and the bill?

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I recognize legal counsel.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The bill as it stands provides that if a Member is convicted of an indictable offence, first of all, then they will automatically lose their seat. If they are granted a discharge, that provision will not apply because they are not considered to be convicted of an offence.

Similarly, in the bill under consideration, where the Member is convicted of a summary conviction offence, the Legislative Assembly has to make a determination of whether they ought to be expelled. Under the motion, it will cover both the situation where they are found guilty and convicted --in other words, under those circumstances, if they are convicted they are automatically expelled --or if they are found guilty of and discharged, then the Legislative Assembly will have to make a determination whether they ought to be expelled, in both the circumstances of an indictable offence and a summary conviction offence.

So, under the bill, it's automatic if they are convicted and nothing happens if they are discharged. Under the motion, if they are discharged, then the Legislative Assembly has to make a determination, so it's forced to make a determination in the event of a discharge.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 11th, 1995

Page 1271

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I thought that one of the things that this act did, and it may be one of the most significant things, is that, because of the work that's gone into this, we've suddenly been brought face to face with the fact that as a Legislature, we have all kinds of powers. They already exist, and they are not enshrined anywhere. It's just that convention means that we can do all the things that this particular amendment would achieve anyway. So I would like to ask, Mr. Chairman, what in this particular amendment can't be achieved under 6.2, because under 6.2, as I understand it, we can do all the things that are referred to in this amendment?

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Stewart.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is correct that under 6.2, the Legislative Assembly can do everything that it can do under the motion. The motion forces the Assembly to make the determination. That's the only difference between the motion and 6.2.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I have Mr. Patterson. To the motion.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, there has been a lot of work done on this bill by the committee and by counsel for the Department of Justice, and I think we have a good bill that is acceptable.

I am a little leery about amendments that are brought on the floor without much notice. I am satisfied from the last question that Mr. Lewis asked, that, under the present bill before us, section 6.2 gives the Assembly absolute power to consider every situation that might involve Members' conduct, whether that situation leads to a conditional discharge or an absolute discharge, or whether that conduct even comes to court.

I don't think we should fool around with that inherent right. It's spelled out clearly in 6.2. I don't think the future Assembly needs to be told, you have to use it in this situation. You shall use it in this situation. I trust the good judgement of the Members of the Legislative Assembly to exercise that inherent right where appropriate and as appropriate.

So I find the amendment superfluous and unnecessary, and I am going to vote against it. Thank you.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question from Mr. Patterson. To the motion. Mr. Whitford. No? Make up your mind, Mr. Whitford, yes or no. Thank you. To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, and then I have Ms. Mike. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I find some of Mr. Patterson's comments to be somewhat offensive. I expressed these concerns in the Standing Committee on Legislation, and Mr. Patterson is on that committee; well, you hung around that committee enough.

---Laughter

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

A committee groupie.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1271

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I find that this bill ...If Mr. Patterson is talking about the inherent right of this Assembly, this bill and the intent of this bill is already in the act of the Assembly; all we're doing is making it more specific. What I'm doing is trying to attempt to close a loophole. For example, nothing is stopping some sophisticated individual from this Assembly from being found guilty of an offence, getting a good lawyer --whether it's O.J. Simpson's lawyer or whomever --to come in and basically plead for a conditional discharge, taking into account that the Member could lose their seat, they could be publicly embarrassed and the judge may have sympathy and give that Member a conditional discharge after that Member may have slapped his or her spouse around.

I think the intent of this bill was to remove Members who conducted themselves in that manner. If you get a conditional discharge, basically you're allowing those Members to sit in the House. I think we're, again, creating double standards for ourselves. What I'm trying to do is be specific: it you're found guilty of a violent offence of or an offence involving sexual exploitation of children, then you're guilty and you should be out of the House. No ifs, ands or buts. That's the intent of this amendment.

Mr. Chairman, I think I've made it fairly clear that I don't think we can allow ourselves to set double standards among Members because no Member is better than the other; we're all elected by our constituents to represent them. I certainly hope that Members will consider this amendment and support the amendment. With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for a recorded vote. Thank you.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to remind the Members, without taking the Member's right to freedom of speech, not to make a statement that may provoke argument in the committee. On the list I have Ms. Mike.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Rebecca Mike Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a few comments to make to remind the Members here that I think our Assembly has a fairly good track record of Members stepping down. As I recall, one Member resigned a seat even before the court appearance, as soon as the complaint was laid against him of sexual assault. There were two other Members after that. I agree with Mr. Lewis that we do have the convention that we can do just about anything in this House if we are not happy or not satisfied with the way Members conduct themselves.

The other thing, as well, is that last fall we passed a bill that allows inmates to vote, which is part of a democratic right. Here we are sitting down, basically trying to halt the democratic process that Canada has been so famous for. With this particular amendment, the way it is, I have a problem supporting it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. It is a recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please rise.

Recorded Vote

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

The Chair John Ningark

All those opposed to the motion, please rise.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1272

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Patterson, Mrs. Thompson, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Koe, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ng, Mr. Pollard, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Morin, Mr. Todd, Mr. Nerysoo, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Lewis.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

All those abstaining, please rise.