This is page numbers 1250 - 1278 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. The Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Just a closing comment, Mr. Chairman. I find that if a Member is found guilty of an offence and then discharged of the offence, they can still remain as a Member under the current bill. Then, I believe, we lose the original intent of the bill. The intention of the amendment is to ensure that there are no loopholes in our bill. If you're found guilty then you're guilty and you should be removed. That's the purpose of bringing forth this amendment. Yes, it is indeed high standards and I would encourage Members to support it because we should be ensuring that we guide ourselves along standards to represent the people that we represent. Thank you.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Whitford. To the motion.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize for having to speak after the mover of the motion but I did not catch your attention earlier on.

Mr. Chairman, I think the greatest fear in this amendment deals with the word "discharged." The way I understand it is that the key word in this thing is "convicted" and that the sentence that is imposed by the court later on is irrelevant. In certain offences, as some colleagues have pointed out, there may be extenuating circumstances and the judge may wish to impose a discharge. I think that in the categories that we were dealing with and discussing earlier on, sexual exploitation and extreme violence, things of that nature, I think once a conviction is there, I have no objections to seeing a person removed from their seat.

There is no question about the integrity of Members here, that we're not ordinary individuals when it comes to the public's opinion. Every move we make and everything that we do is under scrutiny continuously and I think that if we have Members convicted of offences regardless of the sentence and they are allowed to sit in here, it would bring disgrace on the Legislative Assembly. I think that if they didn't resign, then this would force them to do that. If they wish to run again afterwards, they can do so. There's nothing stopping them if they can convince the electorate in their riding that they are worthy of that continued support.

When I said that I would support this it was based, as I said once they're found guilty of this offence then I think it is the right thing for them to do to resign and if they don't resign then this act will permit this to take place. I support this. I'm not afraid of this in any form. Thank you.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour'? All those opposed? The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Clause 2. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask for clarification with regard to clause 2. If a Member is convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code and found not guilty or given a conditional discharge, is it correct to state that a Member does not lose their seat? Thank you.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Stewart, legal counsel.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding of the question is if the Member is found guilty but not convicted --in other words, a discharge is granted on some basis --would the Member lose his or her seat. No, the Member would not lose their seat automatically under these provisions. If it's an offence prosecuted by indictment, there would be no automatic loss of eligibility. Similarly, there would be no need to inquire into the circumstances of the offence under the subsection 6.1.(2), but an investigation could proceed under section 6.2 and the Legislative Assembly could exercise its discretion to discipline the Member and expel them from the House.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 2. Mrs. Marie Jewell.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1269

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is it proper I guess the concern that I have is the current bill, it reads, "after his or her election...convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code." Nothing in there covers whether they are found guilty of an offence. They can be convicted of an offence and given an absolute discharge, whether or not they committed sexual exploitation of children or violence against a person, without having to lose their seat. They could be set free and given a conditional discharge.

You could have lawyers pleading to the judge that the Members are threatened with the loss of their seat and embarrassed by all the publicity, and they can ask for a conditional discharge, and that their client be placed on probation. Then a Member could come back and sit in the House, even though they've been found guilty. I don't think that's the intent of this bill. I'm just trying to find out whether that's correct, if a Member is found guilty, placed on probation and given a conditional discharge then this bill is no good. Would a Member still be able to come back and sit as a Member? Could I get a legal opinion on that?

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

Ms. Stewart, legal counsel.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

Acting Law Clerk Ms. Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member's interpretation would be correct, except that there is still the remaining power in 6.2. for the Legislative Assembly to exercise it's inherent jurisdiction to expel, suspend or discipline the Member. As a matter of fact, that inherent jurisdiction could even be exercised before a court rules on the matter. In other words, if the matter were sufficiently serious that the House felt it was necessary to do something immediately, before the matter even went to trial, the House could make a ruling on it, pursuant to the power in 6.2 before a court has oven decided the matter.

Committee Motion 59-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 2. Mrs. Marie- Jewell.

Committee Motion 60-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Withdrawn
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 11th, 1995

Page 1270

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to propose another motion. I move that clause 2 of Bill 32 be amended by:

(a) striking out that portion of proposed subsection 6.1.(1) immediately preceding paragraph (a) and by substituting the following:

6.1.(1) his or her election, the member is found guilty of and is convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code prosecuted by indictment.

(b) striking out that portion of proposed subsection 6.1.(2) immediately preceding paragraph (a) and by substituting the following:

(2) guilty of and is convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code punishable on summary conviction.

Committee Motion 60-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Withdrawn
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

I see some Members scrambling to take notes, so we will take a few minutes to get a written motion. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

Committee Motion 60-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Withdrawn
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I will call the committee back to order. You had a motion here, Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 60-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Withdrawn
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I would like to withdraw my motion and submit another motion, if I may.

---Withdrawn

Committee Motion 60-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Withdrawn
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The original motion is withdrawn. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I move that clause 2 of Bill 32 by amended by striking out that portion of proposed subsection 6.1 (1) immediately preceding paragraph (a) and by substituting the following:

A Member shall not be or sit as a Member if, after his or her election, the Member is found guilty of and is convicted of an offence under the Criminal Code prosecuted by indictment adding the following after proposed subsection 6.1(1):

Where a Member, after his or her election, is found guilty of and is discharged of an offence under the Criminal Code prosecuted by indictment a)involving the sexual exploitation of children, or in the commission of which Violence against a person is used, threatened or attempted, the Legislative Assembly shall, as soon as is reasonably practicable, determine whether it is necessary, in the public interest and in the interest of the Legislative Assembly, to expel the Member from the Legislative Assembly and to declare that his or her seat is vacant. striking out that portion of proposed subsection 6.1(2) immediately preceding paragraph (a) and by substituting the following:

(2) Where a Member, after his or her election, is found guilty of and is convicted or discharged of an offence under the Criminal Code punishable on summary conviction.

Thank you.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 61-12(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 32, Defeated
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1270

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, the new section submitted in my amendment under (1.1), I believe, forces the Legislative Assembly to make a determination where there is a discharge or an indictable offence and the addition of "or discharge of' in subsection (2) does the same thing where there is the discharge of a summary conviction offence.

I think, for further clarification, if I may, I will ask legal counsel to explain this. It's basically allowing the Legislative Assembly to be able to determine where there is an indictable offence discharged to be able to find out whether it's in the public interest to remove that Member. If I may, I will ask legal counsel to further explain, Mr. Chairman. I would appreciate that. Thank you.