This is page numbers 1311 - 1340 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

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Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1337

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments made by the honourable Member, Mr. Chairman, the matter of fiscal commitment will rest with whether or not education continues, as the Member has supported that education be the number one priority when we made the investment decisions in this House. I appreciate the support he has given during his tenure as a Member in this House over the last four years, as well as other Members.

Despite that support, obviously the fiscal situation we may be encountering as a result of some decisions that have been made, not necessarily by people in this House but by the federal government, we have to review our investment decisions. We have to be innovative in how we allocate resources, recognizing, Mr. Chairman, the seriousness of special needs requirements in our northern communities. So I appreciate the support of the honourable Member.

He had noted earlier that I had met with the Francophone representatives this afternoon. We had a very constructive meeting and I hope that by the end of today or, at the very least early tomorrow morning, we can hear some response to a letter that I will be submitting to them on some of the agreements we had reached to address some of the concerns they have. I intend to submit that letter to them later on today. Thank you very much for those comments.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments on Bill 25. Mr. Whitford.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I just have a few comments to make. I think we have been overcthis bill considerably and I've had a lot of participation. I think one of the things I did want to mention was the appreciation for having the opportunity to participate in the review of the new Education Act. The last go-around was in the 1970s, and I wasn't involved at all with it then. My children were still in the early stages of school and I had just participated in the school system. It worked well for me, at the time.

But, subsequent to the last review of the Education Act, a lothas changed. I had an opportunity to work in the education area, in staff development and training, and some of the things that are being talked about now were concerns then as well.

That dealt with how we were going to deal with the future, the future education of our children; how we were going to meet the standards being set elsewhere and how the territorial system was going to mesh with that. It has been a long standing concern since that term, but I didn't have the opportunity, until now, to participate in it, and I'm glad I did.

The department has said a number of times how important education is; it's a top priority of the government, and we do spend an awful lot of money on it. The things I've heard my constituents say is that they are also concerned with the future of education and they are glad that there is a review taking place. They've had some input, had opportunity to participate in person at public meetings or through the presentation of reports, either directly or indirectly, by their school boards and other interest groups. We've certainly had ample time to participate. The department places a high priority on education and it's good to see, too, because it is going to play such an important part in our future.

More concerned with what is going into the bill, people were concerned that a high priority be placed on -- teachers, parents and students -- financial considerations. It dominated all the question-and-answer forums I attended. I realize the financial aspect is not in this bill, but I wanted to note where some of the concerns and priorities lay. That was one of the concerns: how future finances are going to handicap us greatly and will not allow us to achieve the objectives and goals we set for our children.

Another big concern was standards. As I said earlier, it was felt that oft-times, there is such a variety of standards being, either inadvertently or deliberately, set that didn't allow students from elsewhere to receive the education they need. People expressed the concern here in Yellowknife that the students from here would not mesh with students from the south in post-secondary institutions in the provinces. They were afraid that they would not be able to keep up, unless we set high standards. They didn't want to see students go from one grade to the next unless they did, in fact, pass the courses they were being tested for. They didn't want to see us have a northern variety of education here and not be able to compete successfully with the southern variety. I hope that isn't happening, but those were the concerns that were expressed. I think the new bill will address some of these things and put those types of things back on track.

The other concern that was expressed -- and I know we are going to make some amendments that will attend to that concern -- is the length of the school year. The school year appeared to the public to be getting shorter and shorter. There were more and more breaks, holidays, and other activities taking precedence over studying. We will be dealing with that in some of the amendments. This concerned students as well. Many students felt that other provinces or countries had longer school years and they were going to be short-changed if they didn't at least match or exceed them. We see now that we may be a little closer than we think we are to the norm.

People, in the churches and the religious groups that met with us have expressed a very strong concern over the suggestion of removing religion from the school. It was felt that this would not be a good move, that is was something the country was Founded on and that schools and the church have played quite

an important role in the education of northern students and that to remove that, would be a step backwards. We are going to be looking at that in amendments that may not exactly meet everything that had been suggested to us, but it certainly will go a long way to alleviating the fear that religion and spirituality will not be involved in our schools.

Parental involvement was an area that we heard a lot of concern about and that people had expressed a lot about wanting to get involved. However, in my opinion and others, it isn't just important, it is a must that parents take that responsibility and it rests squarely on the shoulders of parents to ensure that their children are not only given a good education, but are allowed to receive a good education. Allowing them to receive a good education means that there are certain responsibilities that the schools in the Department of Education cannot shoulder.

A student, in order to work, has to have a good night's sleep. They should be home in bed, they should be up in the morning and fed and it should be ensured that the student is directed towards the school, and then placed in the care of the teachers. What happens to the student there should also be the parents' responsibility to ensure that this is going to take place. The women's group that appeared before us stated that. They said they must have some involvement. The schools and the department have recognized this, but the parents themselves must shoulder the responsibility to make sure their children are looked after in order to get that kind of education they want.

I guess the act, in all of the things we have included in here, will address most of the concerns that we've heard along the way. Mr. Chairman, I didn't want to say more than what I've said already. I've participated in this a great deal on behalf of people who, I think, are happy with what we're seeing here. And we're going to make some more adjustments to this as we go along. My time is up. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. General comments from the Members. Are there any further general comments? Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a few general comments. First of all, I want to again congratulate the department for the work they've done on this bill. Over the last four or five years, with heavy intensity in the last few months, they've dealt with a lot of issues, they've dealt with a lot of concerns, and they've been really open with trying to deal with the concerns. It's a mammoth task and a very difficult task, because everybody in the Northwest Territories is an expert on education and everybody has very strong opinions as to the education of children. So the patience the Department has shown is very commendable.

I thank the Minister and the deputy minister, Mr. Gerein, and especially Gail Joyce and Janet Grinsted who have sweated blood over this act for years. It's a very good job.

I have a few comments. Most of my concerns have been met. I think Mr. Dent has already said that we're meeting with the School boards tomorrow, and there might be some fine tuning. I think the department has gone a long way to alleviate any concerns that I've had or heard expressed to me by my constituents.

I guess there are a few points that should be put on the record. The first one is to do with the Catholic school system here in Yellowknife. I've heard some concerns in some circles that, there's some kind of an agenda for the government to, somehow or other, weaken the Catholic system. But I'm absolutely satisfied that is not the case. I think the Catholic system in Yellowknife has worked very, very well. They've provided a very good product in their education system, and they continue to have the full support of the government and the Legislative Assembly. I, for one, am very pleased with the things that are happening in the Catholic system. I think they're showing a lot of leadership, a lot of imagination, and doing an excellent job.

The issue of the Francophone parents has been a tough one. It's been a complex issue. There are many, many lawyers. The Minister met today with representatives of the Francophone community, and again, I think we're very close to accommodating the concerns of the Francophone community here in Yellowknife.

Some of the concerns the public school district had were similar to some of the ones the Catholic board had. I think that the clarification in new drafts outlining the power of the Minister, for instance, in choosing a superintendent will go some way to eliminating those concerns. We'll hear tomorrow if there are any other outstanding concerns.

One area which hasn't really been talked about a lot, and I brought it up at the public meeting here because I wanted to be fair to teachers, is that the whole concept of reaccreditation is on the table. I think Mr. Lewis expressed some very legitimate concerns. All of us want to ensure that the teachers stay up to speed with the latest techniques, the latest information, et cetera. We want to make sure that whatever process is set up, it we go that route after five years to reaccredit, we make sure the process is very open and very fair, so that teachers know what is expected of them. It shouldn't be left to the whims of individuals, whether they be principals, civil servants or school board staff.

I think all of us will support movement in that area, but let's make sure the process is transparent, fair and gives us a product that we want. In fact, rather than being looked at as a punishment for teachers, I think, used properly, teachers can use it to demand from their school boards or districts, the right to receive that type of education and upgrading that is very necessary in the teaching profession.

I was very happy to see in the act that we have outlined some of the responsibilities of students. I think it is very important that any time I look in any legislation, when I look at rights, I always want to see some responsibilities in there. We have become a country that is absolutely preoccupied with their rights. At the end of the day, I don't know who is going to pay for all of these rights because no one seems to want to be responsible for how this country works. It is good to outline that the teachers, students, parents and the principal have responsibilities. I was very happy to see that in there.

I am glad to see that the department responded very quickly to the concerns of the Status of Women delegation, as far as providing an atmosphere in a school free of violence and emphasizing equality of rights in the preamble. That was important. I was happy to see that there was absolutely no problem whatsoever from the department and they responded very well with that demand.

One of the recommendations of the committee was the recommendation to do with parent advisory committees. Again, if we were to say that education is a partnership and that parents are a key part of that partnership, we have to demonstrate that with a mechanism in the act where parents can exercise that partnership. My experience in dealing with schools in Yellowknife is that parent advisory committees have been a very important component of the schools. In some schools in the very beginning, they weren't that well accepted. It wasn't until they were pushed, that teachers and principals really saw them as allies. They aren't threats. We have to have that in the act; each school at least has to have the opportunity to have a parent advisory committee.

One of the major concerns we heard was so much of the act was going to be dealt with in the regulations. We have heard that in this House many times. Quite rightly, educators, parents and people across the territories were concerned and the department did respond in the act that in the regulation-making parties, the interested parties will be involved. That is a big step. It doesn't go as far as many people want, but we have to recognize that it is a fair compromise. It allows flexibility on one hand, which is what people have been demanding and, on the other hand, it does provide some level of commitment by the department that they will actually consult with people. It was a very good compromise.

I want to end by saying the basic principle of education to me always has to be -- on top of all the fancy ideas -- excellence in our schools. That is what this is all about. The bottom line is this act isn't just for the parents, boards, politicians or for groupings of political bodies, this is to actually make sure our kids get educated. This is what this is all about. And that's the only real test, at the end of the day, of whether this act works;are our kids being well educated? I don't really care who has the power. I don't care whether the Minister has the power, the local board has the power, or the principal has the power. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter who has the power if the kids don't get a good education.

I think we should get back to the focus and ensure that our kids get a good education. That's the bottom line. With that, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

--- Applause

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1339

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have just a few general comments with regard to the Education Act. First of all, I want to thank the Minister, even though there are seconded many amendments in comparison to many other acts, for bringing forth this Education Act. I think the Education Act needed a total rehaul to address education in the north. There was recognition that the old act was archaic and it was probably very difficult to follow. The lines of responsibility were very unclear, once divisional boards were set up, because the act did not keep up to these amendments and changes.

Mr. Chairman, I know there have been many concerns about the initial act that was sent out, and I know the public meetings addressed many of those concerns; although, I did want to state that there were some concerns that still aren't addressed, according to my constituents. One was with respect to the inclusive schooling policy and the costs of inclusive schooling. This government could dream up and develop all the policies they want but if they can't ensure that departments have enough resources to give proper and adequate programs to students, then their policies aren't worth the paper they are written on.

There is a grave concern across the Northwest Territories about the amount of funding cut from education. I know there are grave concerns in my riding about the number of teachers that have to be laid off because of the lack of funding. These are the concerns that, even though policy development is being taken care of, it they don't have the funding and the resources

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1339

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1339

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I'm very happy you're recognizing the clock. Thank you.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1339

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I don't mean to interrupt the honourable Member, but the time being 6:00 pm, I will rise and report progress. Thank you.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 - The Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1339

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

I call the House back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Committee Report 11-12(7) and Bill 25 and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Question has been called. All those in favour'? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, that Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2, be read for the third time.

--- Applause

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Your motion is in order. To the

An Hon. Member

Recorded vote.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

There is a request for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.

Recorded Vote

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Dent, Mr. Ballantyne, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Mr. Koe, Mr. Antoine, Mr. Pudluk, Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Arngna'naaq, Mr. Pollard, Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Ningark, Mr. Lewis, Mr. Patterson, Mrs. Thompson, Mr. Pudlat.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

All those against, please stand. Thank you. The vote is 16 for the motion, zero against and zero abstaining. The motion is carried unanimously.

--- Carried

--- Applause

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Bill 32 has had third reading. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, item 22, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there is a meeting of the Caucus Subcommittee on Bill C-68 immediately after adjournment this evening. There are meetings for tomorrow at 9:00 am of the Nunavut Caucus; also at 9:00 am of the Chairs' Liaison Committee, and at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus.

Orders of the day for June 15, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion motion. Mr. Dent. 15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 - The Education Act

- Bill 25, Education Act

- Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, June 15th, at 1:30 pm.

--- ADJOURNMENT