This is page numbers 1400 - 1440 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, the question I was going to ask is who will initiate charges, and it's already been answered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. On clause 12, the section on registration and tuition, I am in the same position as my colleague, Mr. Fred Koe, with regard to treaty rights. Instead of charging the aboriginal people to go to school, this is part of the treaty rights.

In section 12, I would like to ask if this is a new section of the act. Was it in the act before; section 12.(1), where a parent has to register a child between the ages of six and 16 in school? Is this a new thing in this act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, the whole matter of tuition fees was a matter that was in the previous Education Act. What is new in this particular component is the requirement to register children from ages six to 16. That is the requirement now, but this is nothing new.

The honourable Member, as well, in his motion regarding the amendment to clause 4, was intending to ensure that we wore protecting the rights of aboriginal people. It would then affect all the sections and all the components in the legislation, as well.

The other thing that is important to consider though is that we have had a number of discussions with Indian and Northern Affairs. This whole matter of treaty rights or aboriginal rights is an outstanding one. While we are administrating the system, those issues, in my view, still have to be resolved between the aboriginal groups, the treaty people and the federal government. But it's certainly not our intention in any way to take away rights that may exist or, for that matter, obligate the federal government to assume its responsibility in this area. So we support the comments made by the honourable Member.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister told us that section 12.(1) is a new section that is not in the current Education Act. There is a requirement here to register a child of six years of age up to 16 years of age. I would like to ask the Minister why the department saw fit to have this clause included in this act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Maybe I could ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain, but I believe what is intended is that there is a requirement to register children in school or a school program for the purpose of ensuring that we apply the

compulsory education component. There has been a number of comments made by Members of the House that there is a need and there should be a requirement for children to attend school. So we need them to register in order for us to apply the rules in subsequent sections of this legislation.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going on to section 12.(2), there is an offence and a punishment, where if a person does not register a child, he or she is guilty of an offence and has to pay a $100 fine per child, I take it.

We are told that anybody can lay this charge, and that's kind of ambiguous. Maybe that's one of the reasons they have section 1 here so as to try to start collecting money from parents who don't register their children. Later in this act, you talk about a hefty fine of about $500 for a child who doesn't go to school. So it's a way of identifying who should be in school and, if a person is out of school, the district will collect money from them.

My question is, if a conviction with a fine of $100 can be brought down upon a person for not registering his or her child, what is the next step? What do you do? Is there a process for this person to appeal that? I am thinking about a community where there's no employment. It could be someone who has very limited funds. If a person cannot pay the $100, what happens then? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I will ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain, but I just want to advise the honourable Member, this is a maximum fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what the fine is going to be. But I will ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What the Minister said is correct. The fine is a maximum, and the amount of $100 is set there as a guideline for the court to indicate partially the seriousness of the offense and the maximum penalty. A fine is not the only penalty, though, that may be levied. II someone pleads guilty or is convicted of an offence under this section, they may receive an alternative punishment instead of a fine, such as community service work or something if they are unable to pay a fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To Clause 12. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

(Microphone turned off) ...Mr. Chairman. Personally, I totally disagree with charging anybody. I just wanted to ask a question.

I take it this is the first time that this government is doing this in this act. I take it that this is not in the current act but that this is new. I would like to ask the Minister if his department has talked about what it would mean in the communities, because right now it is pretty ambiguous. If someone lays a charge that this person never registered a child and it goes to court, then here again we are leaving it up to the courts to decide.

I would like to ask the Minister what his department has come up with regarding what it now means for parents in the communities with this new provision in the act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. For the advice of the honourable Member, there were fines for compulsory attendance before. The problem is that I guess it was never, what you might say, pursued to the extent necessary.

I just want to go back, Mr. Chairman, because there are two different views that are being expressed here. One is that on a number of occasions we have been told that students should be forced to attend school, so we are now in the process of making sure that we do register so that we have an indication as to whether or not we should be enforcing the whole matter of compulsory education.

Now, having said that, Mr. Chairman, we are offering a number of other options available to parents which were never part of the program; such as home schooling, that could be a part of the program, or, for that matter, private school. Even though we had, I believe, private schools before, there was never a clear indication that that is the direction we wanted to go. But that option is now available to students.

So we have a bit of a dilemma in that either we register children so we can enforce compulsory education or we do not register them and not have compulsory education, because you can't enforce compulsory education without forcing people to register students. So that is a bit of a dilemma that the honourable Member is raising.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To Clause 12. I have Mrs. Thompson.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

My question, Mr. Chairman, is, in a small community like Repulse Bay, I have seen students who quit school at 14 or 15 years old; they don't attend school again. I am just taking Repulse Bay as an example of what happens in a smaller community. What happens when a student quits school when he's 14 or 15 years old? Does he get registered and become a non-attender for the rest of the year, getting charged $500 according to section 28 of the act?

I think that is a concern of the parents. A lot of parents in small communities don't have any employment, and I don't think that is a very acceptable situation, to be charged for not registering your children. It just doesn't seem to make sense for a small community. If it was community work, instead of fines, it would probably make more sense; volunteer work as a punishment. So my question is, what happens if a child quits school at 15 years old or 14 years old? Does the parent register them and they then become a non-attender for the rest of the year? What happens in that case? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, Mr. Chairman, I can't deal with that section; I'm only dealing with clause 12 which deals with registration. Attendance is dealt with in clause 27. I'll respond to that when we get to clause 27. I guess there is a philosophical difference being reflected in the Assembly right now. Either we register the children and have compulsory education, or we say we're not interested in registering the children. There's a big difference. If we're not interested in registering children, then we're not interested in compulsory education. That's the philosophical difference. My view is that there is a need for us to register children to ensure that children go to school. In this particular section, there is a liability for parents, not the students.

It doesn't necessarily mean that a fine will be levied. There may be other ways where we resolve the matter of a student being registered or maybe, for that matter, being registered later than is normally accepted. There is a requirement for all of us to determine whether we want the children to be registered. That's the first issue. Once that is resolved, then section 27 and attendance comes into effect.

Again, while the $500 is there, that doesn't necessarily mean that the $500 fine is levied. There may be other ways to resolve it. What we need is to indicate penalties for parents because right now the student has the right to an educational program. The parent then has the duty to ensure that the students receive the educational program. If you want to withdraw the fines, that's one thing, but then the question is, what is the penalty for parents? If there's none, then what is the basis on which we force parents to register their students or, for that matter, force parents to ensure their children go to school? That's the issue. Those are two elements, but I think they're important.

There are all kinds of options, but there has to be a punishment, and I think that's what we're trying to get at in those two areas.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Thompson.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I understand what you're saying. So, it will be up to the CEC if they want to fine $10, right? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.