No, the district education authorities can't determine the fine, it is up to the Justice of the Peace or the judge, but the CEC can lay the charge. Then it is up to the judge to make that judgment. There cannot be an automatic-fine for someone, it has to be through the process of the judiciary. Thank you.
Debates of June 19th, 1995
Topics
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Zoe, to clause 12 Of Bill 25.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, I have no problem with this section. The only concern I have is who is going to be enforcing this section. I would have hoped that the authority would have been given to the local education bodies. Because it's so general, it means any individual, board member or the board could do that. But, if we were more specific, I think it would cover the concerns of a lot of Members, where the discretion is given to the board to determine if they should lay a charge on a parent or not. I think the concern of a lot of Members is that it is too general. It means anyone could file a complaint and if they investigate and it was determined that a parent hadn't registered their child, they would have to go through the court process and it would be up to the court to determine the fine or other alternatives.
I think that's the concern I have. I think some of us are saying maybe it should be designated, specifically, to the local education authority, rather than leaving it as general as is being proposed now. Thank you.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Clause 12. Mr. Zoe.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
Henry Zoe North Slave
Mr. Chairman, I raised a concern and I was hoping the Minister would respond to it. Because section 12 is so general, maybe a provision could be incorporated into it, such as consent of the Minister to prosecute, consent of the local authority or something to that effect. That way, we can be satisfied that not anybody off the street could lay a complaint and a charge against a parent. I think if we do that, this section would be easily understood. I think a lot of Members are saying that maybe the board should determine who should be charged and who shouldn't.
I was hoping to see something like that incorporated into clause 12 to satisfy the majority of the Members. I agree with what the Minister said earlier; that in order to have compulsory attendance, we need to have kids registered. I think the process they're proposing is the right one, but the other concern is who can prosecute the parents. Thank you.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Thank you. The problem is you have to read all the sections together. Section 117.(b), powers of the education body, deals with the matter of ensuring the enforcement of a child under section 12. That's one of the duties of the education body. If you go back to the principal's duties under section 69.(3)(1), it reads: "enforce the provisions of this act and regulations relating to the attendance of students at the school or designate a member of the educational staff to enforce them." In other words, one section deals with the education body having the responsibility and then in another section, the principal can designate a staff member. It could be, in some cases, the school counsellor. This is what we have to make sure happens. You have to connect all of these sections. The sections don't act alone in the bill.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Minister, don't lead the way for other members of the committee to refer to other sections we haven't been through yet. Clause 12. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
I don't want to lead the way, but they're asking questions, Mr. Chairman, that are affected by other sections. We're dealing with a bill that has lots of connecting factors. Sorry about that, Mr. Chairman. been given to the local education bodies. Because it's so
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1424
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. I believe Mrs. Thompson did that, and you were quick to remind her that we are not dealing with that yet. Mr. Pudlat.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South
(Translation) Mr. Chairman, I would like clarification on clause 12.(2). There was a response saying that before parents are given penalties, they could use other means; or there will be penalties before a parent is given a fine. I wonder how that would be done. Would there be community service available, or what process would be used if a parent is not fined but they have to pay a certain amount for not sending their children to school? What kinds of penalties would there be? I wonder if there would be community service, or would they always have to pay cash? I just want to get clarification on that area. Thank you.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister of Education.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The district education authority or the district education council can decide on the matter of whether or not to charge a person or, for that matter, to talk to them. Maybe there might be a solution other than charging an individual. There may be a way in which we can encourage the parents to send their children to school and register them. So it's not a matter of simply charging them.
The other thing is that a justice of the peace can be used to decide the remedy. The fact is that they can determine that there's a different way of solving this problem, other than fining or having someone pay money. However that is resolved, I leave that up to those who are involved and leave that to the judge to decide. But there are options, including community service, if that's necessary.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Qujannamiik. Clause 12. Agreed?
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
---Agreed
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you very much. Clause 13. Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of quick questions on clause 13. Could I get a definition or could we find out how "tuition fee" is defined; and also, how is "resides" defined?
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. A couple of questions, Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Thank you. Could I get Ms. Joyce to respond, please?
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Ms. Joyce.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Joyce
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister may give direction on tuition fees, but largely it's the power of the district education authorities and the divisional education councils to determine a tuition fee.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Clause 13. Mr. Dent.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I guess for clarification, if a school district charges a fee for books or a fee for supplies in a science class or something, is that considered a tuition fee? I'm just wondering, is tuition fee clearly defined anywhere in this bill so that everybody understands exactly what sorts of fees would be covered by this?
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1425
Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, there is a later section that speaks to this, but I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to speak to this matter.