This is page numbers 1400 - 1440 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Mr. Antoine, Hon. Silas Arngna'naaq, Mr. Ballantyne, Mr. Dent, Hon. Samuel Gargan, Mr. Koe, Mr. Lewis, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, Hon. Don Morin, Hon. Richard Nerysoo, Hon. Kelvin Ng, Mr. Ningark, Hon. John Pollard, Mr. Pudlat, Mr. Pudluk, Mrs. Thompson, Hon. John Todd, Mr. Whitford, Mr. Zoe

---Prayer

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 1401

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. That was Michif, was it?

---Laughter

Good afternoon. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Pollard.

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Honourable Stephen Kakfwi will be absent from the House for the next several days to make representation to the Senate on Bill C-68, An Act Respecting Firearms and Other Weapons. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to announce some initiatives and changes that are being made to the forest fire management program.

When responsibility for forest fire management was assigned to me several weeks ago, I set out to make it into a program that could be respected by our community leaders, effective in its task of protecting our resources, and efficient in spending limited financial resources.

The first step was to ask every community in the western Arctic to appoint a contact person who can represent the community leaders when decisions have to be made. As a result, community leaders and residents are now partners in decisions being made about how to respond and manage forest fires. We also have people in the north who have many years of experience and know the tried-and-true ways of effective firefighting. respected elder, Eddie Powder, has been hired to give advice on how things can be improved.

Mr. Speaker, one of the first things I did when I accepted this responsibility was to meet the ground crews and fire bosses who work in difficult conditions to control fires. Their jobs are tough and I have tremendous respect for them. I am announcing today that the salaries of certified firefighters are being raised from $8.75 to $11.50 per hour.

---Applause

I have made other changes to our fire management program and policy to improve effectiveness and efficiency of our activities. Following discussions with the Standing Committee on Finance, a target budget of $13 million has been set for fire suppression. I believe we can stay within that target, even though we are experiencing forest fire conditions as bad as last year. Giving the staff in the fire program a target to meet, rather than an open chequebook, is an incentive to save money. Economies are already happening as staff work with community leaders in finding better ways of doing things. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the For example, rather than using expensive helicopters to complete the mop-up of the Norman Wells fire, our people and the community came up with a plan to use men and caterpillar tractors with limited helicopter support. This plan to barge the tractors up the river to the fire site has cut our costs for cleaning up the fire by at least one third and has left the dollars in the hands of northern businesses.

---Applause

As part of the plan to save money in firefighting, a $1 million forest fire prevention program has been established. This program is to be used to supplement community fire protection activities. Forest fire management staff will be working with communities to develop plans and set priorities for actions that must be taken to help make sure that we do not lose a community to fire. A basic requirement for this initiative is that the plans have to be community-driven. We help the communities draw up their plans, we do not go in and tell them what we are going to do for them. A major advantage of this initiative is that it also leaves the dollars spent in the pockets of residents.

Mr. Speaker, over the years, all of us have heard the frustration expressed by harvesters when their cabins and equipment are lost to fires and their trapping and hunting areas are temporarily wiped out. Even worse, some harvesters have given up harvesting fur after fires destroyed everything. One of the reasons is that the compensation available to them was limited to a maximum of $4,500 for each cabin and the equipment they owned. Many Members of this Legislative Assembly have spent a lot of time on the land and know $4,500 does not come anywhere near the replacement costs for a harvester's cabin and equipment. As a result, I am pleased to say that approval has been given for a program that allows up to $7,000 to replace a cabin, between 75 and 100 per cent for replacing equipment and up to $15,000 for relocation costs to establish a new trapline. With this increased compensation, harvesters will be able to re- establish themselves or even move temporarily to a new location.

---Applause

The increased compensation is necessary, especially in times when fur prices are low and in recognition of the fact that, realistically, we will not be able to control every fire.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, during this last week and a half, we have had one of our most threatening fires in history. Two communities were evacuated and we saw how community leaders, residents and staff pull together when the chips are down. A lot of people were working around the clock. I was particularly pleased to note that our fire management systems and processes for decision-making were working effectively. Regardless, we have room for improvement, especially in developing a real partnership with communities in fire protection and in increasing northern benefits.

As another step in achieving this, I have, this past week, completed negotiations to establish five more community contract crews and manage two satellite camps. The bottom line to me is that the resources around each community are first and foremost the property of the users. It is they who should have final say in protection plans and actions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week we celebrated Mining Week, and one of the important events capping off the week is always the NWT mine rescue competition. This year, the competition was won by the team from Miramar Con Mine, which I'm happy to mention is also the mine located in my constituency.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the members of that mine rescue team, in particular, and all mine rescue teams for being ready when disaster strikes. It takes special dedication to be part of a mine rescue team.

Mr. Speaker, mining is probably the most important economic activity in the Northwest Territories. It currently provides large numbers of jobs, but probably most important, it offers the best potential for creating more jobs and new wealth for northerners.

Recently, an environmental group, with their tongue firmly in cheek, nominated the Premier for the mining hall of fame, accusing her government of opening the door to business; in particular, to mining companies. Mr. Speaker, being open for business is nothing to be ashamed of. Without businesses making profits, there would be no taxes to finance the operations of government. With federal grants being cut, for us to maintain important services like education and health care, more and more we must find ways to increase our own source revenues. One way to do that is to increase the numbers of businesses and jobs in the Northwest Territories.

In the short term, Mr. Speaker, the non-renewable resource sector offers us the best opportunity. If we can get everyone onside for the northern accord and successfully conclude that deal, we will be particularly well situated to ensure benefits for northerners.

Mr. Speaker, I don't think though that being open for business means the environmental concerns cannot be taken very seriously. My colleagues in this Legislature are very much aware of the importance of the land and the wildlife it sustains, and would not allow unmitigated development to take place. Mr. Speaker, no one in this House has suggested circumventing the environmental review process.

Being open for business has more to do with an attitude which recognizes that we need businesses to be successful in order to provide jobs and taxes, and then making sure government is not erecting unnecessary roadblocks. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and honourable Members. Mr. Speaker, being open for business may mean a one-window approach, so businesses know exactly what the process will be, where to go for more information and what steps must be taken to prove their proposed project can meet environmental guidelines.

Mr. Speaker, I hope that the government will ensure that the NWT is open for business. We can have both: a healthy business climate; and, respect for the environment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Display Of Hmcs Mackenzie Model In Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1402

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, 19 years ago, by an Order in Council, the Government of the Northwest Territories adopted the destroyer, HMCS Mackenzie. Since September of 1981, a model of this 366-foot destroyer has resided in the Northwest Territories and was first displayed in the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform this House that the model of the HMCS Mackenzie is now on display here in the great hall of this Legislative Assembly building, where we hope a will stay. We also have a plaque of the Mackenzie and pennant, and a replica of the ship's wheel here on permanent display.

The Mackenzie was designed as an anti-submarine destroyer and was named after the Mackenzie River and the ship travelled some 850,000 nautical miles during her commissioned years, or if we put it in more understandable terms, 24 trips around the world at the Equator.

The Mackenzie has had some exciting moments. She was involved in the first high-seas boarding and the seizure of a foreign vessel by the Canadian Navy since the Second World War. She also made a dramatic rescue of the entire crew of the Pacific Mariner, after other ships and other attempts had failed. She has had the distinction of participating in both the 75th anniversary of the Royal Canadian Navy and the 50th anniversary of the Royal New Zealand Navy. The Mackenzie is unique in other ways, as the edges and the surfaces of her upper decks were rounded, a feature designed for two purposes: first, in war, the radioactive or chemical contaminants could easily be washed off; second, being designed for very cold climates, the rounded edges would prevent ice build-ups.

Commencing in 1972, the Mackenzie was used ... I seek consent to conclude, Mr. Speaker.

Display Of Hmcs Mackenzie Model In Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1403

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Conclude your statement, Mr. Whitford.

Display Of Hmcs Mackenzie Model In Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1403

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker and colleagues. Commencing in 1972, the Mackenzie was used primarily to train 40 to 50 naval officers at a time. They learned how to handle ships, navigation, organization and administration; all important elements in our Canadian military.

After the Mackenzie was retired in 1993 --they call it the "pay- out" --rather than sell this beautiful ship for scrap metal, she was sunk off Vancouver Island in Sydney Harbour to provide an artificial reef. Her anchor was sent to Yellowknife and sits in front of the military headquarters down the street from us. Now that this beautiful ship has settled on the bottom of the Pacific where there was previously nothing but sandy ocean bottom, she will attract a variety of marine life and divers from all over the world, who will carry out observation work under the sea, to see how an artificial reef functions. It will provide many more years of usefulness to Canada.

So that is the model of the ship in the foyer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Display Of Hmcs Mackenzie Model In Legislature
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1403

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Koe.

NWT Ferry Schedules
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1403

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to express some concern about the hours of operation of the ferries, specifically at the Peel River crossing and the Mackenzie River crossing.

This year, the hours of operation of these ferries, and other ferries across the territories, have been changed. They are now working on a timed schedule. There have been many complaints by many of the people who are using these roads and ferries about the waiting time and methods of operation of these ferries. There is a lot of traffic in the Delta region between Fort McPherson, Tsiigehtchic and Inuvik. We are also now well into the tourism season and there are many tourists who are coming to these crossings and are a little dismayed at the time they have to wait.

Later this afternoon, my colleague from Mackenzie Delta is going to be tabling a petition which we received from residents in the area. They are complaining about the timing of these ferry crossings. So I would like to raise the issue and I would like to ask the Minister and the department to do a quick evaluation of the hours of operation of the ferries at the Peel River and the Mackenzie River crossings before we get well into the summer season. The timing is right that we do an evaluation now to take an assessment of how these operations are being run. Thank you very much.

NWT Ferry Schedules
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1403

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Are there any further Members' statements? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Catholic Women's League is celebrating its 75th anniversary with more than 114,000 members across Canada. In Fort Smith, the Catholic Women's League will celebrate its 41st year with 11 active members.

However, we have been fortunate in Fort Smith and honoured to have the Catholic Women's League and the Mackenzie Diocese spiritual director from Fort Smith. Donna Currie is only the second woman to hold that position. In the past, the CWL always had a priest as a chaplain.

The CWL started in Fort Smith in 1954 with eight members and they were, at the time, Mrs. Saraphine Evans, Mrs. Bohnet, Mrs. Gratix, Mrs. Giroux, and Mrs. Amirault, who was the first president, with Father Mokwa being the chaplain.

Mr. Speaker, the objectives of the CWL actually began when they responded to a call from Bishop Emil Legal to assist immigrant women. The CWL came to the rescue by setting up the first English as a second language course in Canada. In 1946, the league passed resolutions to provide youth centres across the country to combat juvenile delinquency. In Alberta, it had its key role in setting up and funding women's shelters. In 1958 in Fort Smith, Father Mousseau, who is now in Yellowknife, became the first chaplain of the CWL and the league was also amalgamated with Alberta at the time.

During the 1960s and 1970s, the league concentrated on the sanctity of life, women in the church, Christian family life, world peace, pension reform and social justice for women worldwide. I would like to take the time to recognize the present active members of the CWL: Donna Currie, Anna Hodgkins, Monique Bird, Jean Le Guerfler, Dora Tourangeau, Saraphine Evans, Giselle Soucy, Joan Langevin, Isabelle Le Guerrier, Margaret Levadnuk, and Charlotte Anderson. Saraphine Evans was one of the initial members and continues to be involved. One of the other members, Dora Tourangeau, is in her late 80s and still helps out with the CWL. I would like to take the time to commend and thank the women who have given all their extra effort to the CWL. We are proud of our women, who continue to be active members in striving for the spiritual interest of our community. Thank you.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Ballantyne.

Father's Day
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1404

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sunday was Father's Day. it is a day for fathers across the Northwest Territories to celebrate their relationship with their kids and reflect on the most important role that men with children must undertake in their life: that is, bringing up their children to be productive and caring adults. We often hear about parents' rights and we hear, very often in this House, about the responsibility of governments, courts, teachers and police officers to care for children. Let there be no doubt, the primary responsibility for bringing up children lies with their parents. We have the responsibility to ensure our kids stay out of trouble, become educated and to become active and productive members of society. We should also take a moment to think about fathers less fortunate than us, who have lost children to crime, suicide and accident. When we're reflecting on the joy that our children bring to us, we should remember the tragedies that happen out there. We can never forget that. I think all of us have the responsibility to protect all children, not just our own.

We can count our blessings as parents. In the 1990s, the role of men has changed significantly. Men can no longer leave the raising of their children to their wives; we must be involved in every part of our children's lives. Having children is a wonderful gift, and it is a gift that we must take the time and effort to nurture. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Father's Day
Item 3: Members' Statements

Page 1404

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ballantyne. Item 3, Members' statements. Do we have any further Members' statements? Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 634-12(7): Reinstatement Of Bird Dog Officers During Investigation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1404

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a response to a question asked by Mrs. Marie- Jewell on June 16, 1995, concerning Bird Dog officer investigations. Mr. Speaker, today, under orders of the day, item 13, tabling of documents, I will table an excerpt from the human resource manual, section 701, which speaks to the process for investigating recommendations for dismissal. Numbers 38 through 42 in section 701 specifically address the investigation procedures followed upon receipt of a request for dismissal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 634-12(7): Reinstatement Of Bird Dog Officers During Investigation
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1404

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 580-12(7): Creation Of Fire Breaks As Preventative Measures
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1404

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on June 12, 1995, with respect to the creation of fire breaks as preventative measures.

Further Return To Question 580-12(7): Creation Of Fire Breaks As Preventative Measures
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions
Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Page 1404

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Mr. Lewis.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

Page 1404

Brian Lewis Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize Bob and Carol Latremouille. They were residents of Yellowknife for many years; they lived on my street. Carol was also an employee of the government. They are visiting in their retirement, just to show you that when people retire, they spend time here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Welcome to the Assembly. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Today, I would like to recognize the fathers, who are in the gallery and in this Chamber, and wish them a belated Happy Father's Day and also the mothers, a belated Happy Mother's Day.

---Applause

Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In light of what Minister Pollard had to say regarding the subject of Bird Dog officers and the investigation taking place, I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Safety a question concerning the Bird Dogs. Over the past few days, Members of this House have heard on the radio numerous reports suggesting that there is political interference taking place with the investigation being conducted by the chief safety officer.

Some of my constituents, as well, are concerned about those allegations. I would like to ask the Minister it he could clarify and advise this House about the role his department is playing in this matter.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister of Safety and Public Services, Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to advise the honourable Member that the chief safety officer is conducting the investigation according to the legislative authority he has. As Minister, I believe it is none of my business to intervene at this particular juncture. I've been asked to ensure that the responsibility that has been assigned is carried out accordingly and, to date, there has been no involvement on the part of any of the political leaders to deter or affect the investigation being conducted.

Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Minister Nerysoo. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister if his department has instructed them as to how long the investigation should take. Have they set a time limit?

Supplementary To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to indicate to the honourable Member that there has been no suggestion of a time limit for the investigation. It is my belief that the chief safety officer has to assume the responsibility for investigating thoroughly the issues related to the concerns raised. Once that is done, obviously, the chief safety officer will file the report and advise us accordingly.

Further Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

supplementary, Mr. Whitford; or are you finished?

Further Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

(Microphone turned off)

Further Return To Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Question 642-12(7): Role Of Saps In Bird Dog Officer Investigation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Government House Leader, who is the acting Premier today. Thank you.

Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

The question is to Mr. Pollard. Who is the acting Premier today?

Return To Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, there is no acting Premier today. The Prime Minister was here on the weekend, as everybody knows. The Premier went to visit him. She is still in the Northwest Territories, we're still in contact with her, so there is no need to appoint anybody. I merely will be taking questions for her if there are any questions directed at her. Thank you.

Return To Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Return To Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I'm interested in knowing where Mr. Todd was on Friday. I know he was in Rankin, but I would like to know what types of meetings he attended in Rankin. Thank you.

Return To Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

I would like to rule that question ... Maybe you could rephrase it, because it's not a supplementary to your first question about who the acting Premier is. Maybe you could rephrase it so it would be in order.

Return To Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Question 643-12(7): Acting Premier
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, I understand that, so I'll put you down on my list. I have to go to another Member for a first question. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on Friday, June 16th, I asked the Minister of Health and Social Services about the status of the Metis health benefits. The Minister, at the time, indicated that it was still under review. I understand that the issue is more than under review; that they're trying to negotiate the terms of the program. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance if an agreement has been reached with the Metis Nation of the Northwest Territories on the Metis health benefits?

Return To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1405

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no, I don't believe an arrangement has been concluded between the Department of Health and the Metis Nation. However, there has been an agreement between

myself and Mr. Bohnet that the Metis health benefits will be retroactive to the date of assent of the budget bill that passed through here in late April, I believe around the 26th or 27th of April, Mr. Speaker. I did that last week in order to take pressure off of both sides who were trying to get this deal together. I wanted them to have some assurance that they didn't have to rush the process through, because I would like it to be fair to both sides and I would also like it to be an economic arrangement, as well. So that's the latest, and the department will continue to discuss this issue with the Metis Nation and, hopefully, they'll conclude a soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi. One of the contentious issues, I understand, is the issue of when the benefits are going to come into effect. Has any arrangement or agreement been made as to what date the Metis benefits will come into effect?

Supplementary To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Pollard.

Further Return To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, assuming an agreement can be reached some time this fiscal year, it will be retroactive to the date of assent of the budget that went through here in April, and I think that date is around the 26th or 27th of April. So if an arrangement is made, it will be retroactive to that particular date, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Question 644-12(7): Status Of Metis Health Benefits
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed towards the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs regarding the water and sewer subsidy. The government has made some changes to the water and sewer subsidy program; the subsidized commercial rates in the hamlets, charter communities and designated communities changed. I would like to ask the Minister, as of June 1 st, have there been any changes to the subsidy program? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Minister of MACA.

Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a hold has been put on any further changes to the water and sewer subsidy program until such time as the department evaluates what happened as a result of that initial change that took place last year. Thank you.

Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last year before the Minister now responsible took over, we made some changes to the water and sewer subsidy program. I know the Standing Committee on Finance asked that this subsidy program be delayed until we have a full evaluation of it. Is that one of the reasons the Minister and the government are now holding off on changes to the water and sewer subsidy program? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, that is one of the primary reasons, Mr. Speaker. As well, the department wanted to assess what financial impact these changes had to the municipalities and the businesses out there. So until such time as that is done, there won't be any further changes to the existing policy.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister a further question. We had made some changes some months ago and there is definitely an impact on the private consumers as well as the commercial consumers. Can the Minister tell the House what type of impact the initial changes to the water and sewer subsidy program have in the north? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The department heard initially from some private business operators about the impact the changes had. They basically decreased the level of subsidy available to commercial businesses, to a small extent. But as far as the dollars and cents, Mr. Speaker, I don't have that information. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. The last information I had about the subsidized commercial rates to communities was that effective June 1st, 90 per cent rather than 100 per cent of the water and sewer consumption by commercial users will be subsidized. Is the Minister telling us that that's all changed and that's on hold until the subsidy has been done? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1406

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The change to the water and sewer subsidy program that took place last year is in effect now, and there won't be any further changes to the change that was put into effect last year. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Question 645-12(7): Changes To Water And Sewer Subsidy Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. hem 6, oral questions. If there's nobody new, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Transportation made an announcement with respect to the Arctic A airports transfer agreement on the accomplishment he has made with respect to the transfer with the federal government of Arctic A airports.

First of all, I commend him on such a successful process with respect to this transfer agreement. But I would like to ask him, Mr. Speaker, whether or not he can give us some indication how this will affect Arctic A airports in the north? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are, as I said earlier in this session, optimistic that the current levels of funding that we have managed to negotiate will permit us to maintain the current levels of services that are currently provided. It's not the department's intention to see any significant change in the current levels of services provided at these nine Arctic A airports.

Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell,

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since he indicated that the communities wouldn't appear to see any significant change, can he indicate to this House whether or not this transfer agreement of Arctic A airports will have any affect on PYs in the regions or in the communities where this transfer is effective? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

John Todd Keewatin Central

Again, Mr. Speaker, as I said, it's our hope and our intention to maintain the current levels of services. I am optimistic. As I said, they are still working out the day-to-day details of taking over the Arctic A airports. July 1st is the sign-off date. I am confident and optimistic that we will be able to maintain the jobs, the levels of services and, in fact, because we will be able to integrate all the expertise that is sitting in the nine Arctic A airports into our B and C airports, we are even optimistic that we will be able to harness a whole bunch of expertise that we haven't had in the past. So it should actually make our operations oven more effective than they currently are. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister mentioned the different levels of airports. Currently, I know our regional people at the community level, even though we have an Arctic A airport, also look after B and C airports. So will they continue with the responsibility of look is after the B and C airports? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

John Todd Keewatin Central

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Final supplementary. The Minister indicated in his statement that the agreement transferred a staff of 122 employees. I would like clarification on whether these 122 employees were current PYs within the Northwest Territories, or did we receive any additional PYs from out of the Northwest Territories upon the transfer? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

John Todd Keewatin Central

I stand to be corrected, but I believe that all the PYs were territorial Transport Canada employees, I believe. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On Nwt Airport Services
Question 646-12(7): Effect Of Arctic A Airport Negotiations On NWT Airport Services
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1407

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ballantyne.

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for housing. Mr. Speaker, can we say now, finally and absolutely, that the federal government is out of any capital assistance to the Northwest Territories government to build new houses? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have managed to get approximately $9 million out of the federal government for home ownership programs that have been carried out this year, and I am going to be attending a housing Ministers' meeting in Newfoundland in the early part of July and hopefully, if there's any money available, we'll get our share. Thank you.

Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you. At the very least, we can probably say a trend has developed, and the capital part of the federal government contribution is slowly dissolving to nothing over a period of time.

My second question to the Minister is, do we still have a firm commitment that for whatever new houses we build, the federal government will continue to pay their portion of the O and M for social housing?

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do have a firm commitment. It is my understanding that we have a firm commitment of the federal government paying their share of the O and M for the existing public housing stock that we have. That is shared with them, but for the last year, we have not built any new public housing because they do not cost-share any public housing. They have agreed to cost-share our home ownership program. There is also information available that the Minister of Indian Affairs as well as the Minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation are supposed to be putting a paper together for an aboriginal housing program on-reserve and off-reserve, so we are looking forward to seeing that paper.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Second supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The second part of that response is interesting. Even though we haven't taken advantage of it, because we haven't built any social housing that needed the O and M component, if, for instance, the Minister this year decided to build 100 units that weren't part of the home ownership plan, would the federal government cost-share the O and M?

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that, no, they would not.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Final supplementary, Mr. Ballantyne.

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Final supplementary. Let me just try to pin this down so everyone knows. Essentially we have come to the end of capital. They've capped O and M. So my last question is a question I've asked the Minister. It's always been my fear that now they've done those two things, the next thing they are going to do is look into cutting back on their O and M commitments. The Minister was going to look into it to ensure that our present agreements were airtight and that there's no chance that the federal government will start to claw back their commitment to O and M funding of our present stock. Is the Minister confident that he can protect the present agreement with the federal government for their present social housing stock?

Supplementary To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that we do have tight agreements with the federal government. Whether or not they can find a way to get out of those agreements, we will try to ensure that they do not, and I will make the Minister of CMHC aware that we would be most unhappy if they did back out of the agreements that are signed and sealed already. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Question 647-12(7): Status Of Federal Capital Assistance For Housing
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1408

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Next on my list I have Mr. Koe, but is there anybody who wants to ask an oral question who hasn't asked one yet and who wants to do so? Nobody? Mr. Koe.

Fred Koe Inuvik

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The training for recreation leaders has been provided by the Aurora College with funding provided through the municipalities which in turn receive their monies from the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. It's been my understanding that up till now, these students who take the recreation leadership program have been sponsored through subsidized wages by their municipalities.

I understand also that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is now or may be changing its policies with regard to providing funds to municipalities for supporting the recreation leadership program.

I would like to ask the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, is the department changing its policies for funding recreation leadership programs in the municipalities?

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Currently, the department provides a funding subsidy of 80 per cent of the salary, up to the amount of $35,000, to municipalities for their recreation leaders; coordinators, we call them. We've found, Mr. Speaker, that some municipalities are having a difficult time finding people from the communities to undertake the recreation leadership program and to complete their studies, and have requested that we allow them to have candidates for the recreation leadership programs who are not from the Northwest Territories and still receive the subsidy. So, based on that, we are looking at removing the criteria of having the eligible candidate be from the Northwest Territories, at the municipalities' request. Thank you.

Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Fred Koe Inuvik

The recreation leadership program is probably one of our most successful ones provided by Aurora College. I'm just curious, if the policy is changing, what does that mean in terms of the type of sponsorship that is going to be provided to students who are from the north, or wherever, to take this program?

Supplementary To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What it will mean, Mr. Speaker, is if a municipality requests that they continue to receive the subsidy for a recreation leader who is not from the Northwest Territories, the department will allow them that flexibility, given that we encourage municipalities to hire individuals who have completed the recreation leadership program, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Supplementary To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Fred Koe Inuvik

Just for the record then, can you confirm that the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is not cutting the subsidy program for recreation leaders?

Supplementary To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Koe. Mr. Ng.

Further Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Kelvin Ng Kitikmeot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Currently, as I said, municipalities receive 80 per cent, up to the amount of $35,000, for recreation leaders. The department does not plan to cut back on that subsidy at this point. However, I would like to reiterate what has been said in the past: given the fiscal conditions of this government and this department, it will be something that will continue to be looked at in the overall context of funding for municipalities. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Question 648-12(7): Status Of Provisions For Funding Recreation Leaders' Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ng. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week was Mining Week in the Northwest Territories and we have received all kinds of literature on our desks regarding it. I'm very interested in mining in my area. Recently, in travelling in my constituency, some questions were raised about the government having a course for people in the north to study prospecting. So, I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, in this regard. Has the government or his department had in the past, or currently, a program to help people in the communities take prospecting courses so they can get involved in the mining industry as prospectors? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, in partnership with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, have run some prospecting courses here in Yellowknife and, I believe, in my honourable colleague's riding of Baker Lake. Thank you.

Return To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is this prospecting course a regular type of Arctic College Program or is it a program that the people of the community have to develop themselves, and request departmental funding for? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1409

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I'm familiar with Arctic College, Mr. Speaker, and these programs would be best suited to go into the communities to help communities get involved. I would like to

ask the Minister it that is possible; if communities are interested in running programs such as would they be developed, offered and delivered in the communities interested? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we've already accomplished that, in Baker Lake, for example. And I believe that, at the request of the Prospectors' Association of Baker Lake, we are also doing it this summer. So, it certainly is possible. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Question 649-12(7): Status Of Community Prospecting Course
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Final supplementary, Mr. Antoine. Okay, next, item 6, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister responsible for Education. Mr. Speaker, a number of my constituents have spoken up about an issue currently being debated; forest firefighting in the territories. It has sparked the interest of a good number of young people wanting to get into the business of fighting fires. They recognize the need for training and they would like to know if they can get this training here in the Northwest Territories. I would like to ask the Minister whether Arctic College is currently, or certainly in the future, going to be training forest firefighters and Bird Dog officers because of the training necessary to participate in this occupation? Do they have this at Arctic College?

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can advise the honourable Member that my colleague, Mr. Morin, and I have had a discussion on this matter already. We have advised our departments to discuss the issue of training, in conjunction with Aurora College. Once those discussions have taken place, we can probably report to the Members the extent of that discussion. The intention is to try to ensure we have some training programs in place, at least this winter some time. But that's not to suggest, Mr. Speaker, that we may not be able to put into place all the technical requirements for that program. But we will be working on the development of a program of this type. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Supplementary, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I gather, then, from the answer that there is nothing currently. Where would and how would young people seeking involvement in this profession go about doing that? Is this information available through Arctic College?

Supplementary To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Further Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can advise the honourable Member that there already are some courses offered outside of the Northwest Territories for anyone who wants to be skilled in this field. Part of the information could be received through discussions with our peer centres or With the Department of Renewable Resources. However, I can advise the honourable Member that there is no program offered in Aurora College or Nunavut Arctic College. It is our intention to discuss the matter of developing an appropriate program, but it will take us some time. We need to have discussions with Aurora College, Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, probably Education, Culture and Employment, and Renewable Resources in order for us to be certain we have the appropriate program in place, but it will take us some time. We are interested in reviewing this matter and bringing forward a response to the suggestion made by the honourable Member.

Further Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Whitford, second supplementary. Are you finished?

Further Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

(Microphone turned off)

Further Return To Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Question 650-12(7): Status Of Firefighting Training Program In Nwt
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for fire suppression a question with respect to his Minister's statement. I commend him for being able to give an increase to the certified firefighters, as they certainly are worth all of the money that they make. They work very hard and they work in very hard conditions. I've noted that the Minister has increased their wages from $8.75 to $11.50 per hour. The Minister indicated in Fort Smith in May that he was going to do this. I would like to ask the Minister whether this increase in salary is effective today's date, or at the beginning of the fire season. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This would not be retroactive because I had not gotten Cabinet approval until Thursday or Friday to carry this out. This is for the emergency firefighters and casual firefighters. Thank you.

Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1410

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, the other question I want to ask under the responsibility of the same Minister is with respect to --as he indicated in his Minister's statement --how the department plans to address using resources; whether it be helicopters, fixed-wing, or machinery

from the community. With respect to requesting resources to assist with the fire, is it the responsibility of the Government of the Northwest Territories fire management program to call in the resources, or is it the responsibility of the contractor providing these types of services to the government? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my understanding that if equipment is needed on the fire, the fire boss is the one who requests it through his regional office and that goes to the fire centre that controls all of them. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thanks, Mr. Morin. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Would the Minister be able to determine whether it is the northern contractor to be able to bring in these resources, or a departmental responsibility and advise the House? Thank you.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can I get the Member to repeat the question, I didn't hear it.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, can you repeat the question?

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

As the Minister indicated, it's up to the fire centre to determine. Would the Minister determine whether or not the fire centre acquires the resources from northern contractors, or does the department take on the responsibility of acquiring these services and advise the House accordingly? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Morin.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that the fire centre is in the Department of Renewable Resources, and it's my understanding that they make the request. For example, it they need...(inaudible)...helicopters or more bombers, they make the request directly to the deputy minister, Joe Handley, and he has the final say on whether it comes here. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Final supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Since the Minister does not know for sure what the process is, Mr. Speaker, my understanding is fire control asks the contractor to provide resources if they're fixed-wing, helicopter or any type of aircraft. I'm trying to determine who the responsibility lies with; whether it is the contractor who brings in these services, or whether it's a departmental responsibility. This is why I'm trying to determine this, in order to be able to question the process used when they want to get southern expertise to assist them in fighting fires. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thanks very much, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Morin.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll take that question as notice.

Supplementary To Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Question 651-12(7): Commencement Of Salary Increase For Certified Firefighters
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. That was your final supplementary. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance. Off and on we have talked about training programs, supplying training to our youth. At times, we have talked about counselling our youth in this particular jurisdiction. We all know that keeping the dialogue going between the elders and youth is very important, especially in this day and age. I think the Members of this Legislature know what I'm talking about. Our youth needs direction from the elders, and we all need the wisdom and knowledge of the elders in our communities.

An Hon. Member

Hear! Hear!

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Mr. Speaker, we spend a substantial amount of money providing training and we are very thankful for that. We also spend a substantial amount of money providing counselling. We are thankful for that, Mr. Speaker. My question to the honourable Minister is this: is there any funding available from this government to provide elders and youth committees in the communities? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Pollard.

Return To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1411

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Kakfwi, as Minister of Justice, has been impressing upon Members of Cabinet that there needs to be a community justice system. Madam Premier, in her responsibility as Minister of Health and Social Services, has been saying that we need to get these issues back to a community level. There is going to be a disbursal of some funds to communities to get their community wellness strategy together.

At the bottom of all this is the recognition by these two Ministers that getting the youth and the elders working together, using the advice of the elders to keep those young people out of trouble, using their vast experience to guide problems that occur within communities is paramount. So I think that you will see, through both of these Ministers, some involvement of the elders' system in our communities, to either counsel those youth or to make suggestions on how we could make things better. It won't, perhaps, be direct funding, but they will be involved in the process. The communities will be left to decide how they spend the money that the Minister of Health disburses this summer, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Return To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Mr. Ningark.

Supplementary To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary to the same Minister. With regard to the programs and services that the honourable Minister is alluding to, would the Minister tell the House what the budget is in the wellness program under this government? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Ningark. Mr. Pollard.

Supplementary To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

John Pollard Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I'm speaking on behalf of two other ministries, so I'll take the question as notice and make an answer to the House tomorrow specifically. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Question 652-12(7): Funding For Community Elder And Youth Committees
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

The Minister is taking the question as notice. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister, with regard to transfers and devolution of federal programs to the Northwest Territories, has there been anything done on the community economic development organization funds, the CEDO funds, that the feds have? I would like to ask the Minister, what is going on with this particular program? Thank you.

Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The CEDO funding, which is given to band councils and to Inuit organizations across the territories, is under review by the Ministry of DIAND, the same as EDA, community futures and all the rest. We are currently under discussions with them in an effort to try and protect that funding, and there are discussions, I believe, going on directly between DIAND and the parties involved in an effort to see what can be retained and what's going to end up having to go with respect to the federal cutbacks. Thank you.

Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This CEDO funding is one source of funding for the band councils, I know, in the west, and they make very good use of it. I am totally against anything that would jeopardize this type of funding. I am sure that the band councils, if they know or aware that there is some possibility that this is going to change, are going to be very concerned. I would like to ask the Minister if the chiefs of councils are aware that there is a review of this particular program and that the GNWT is, as the Minister put it, trying to protect this funding. Could the Minister elaborate on what he means by protecting the funding, as well? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's important to point out that we have no jurisdiction over this funding. This is a direct relationship between the federal government, DIAND, and the aboriginal groups. What we are saying is that discussions were under way with respect to trying to look at a new EDA program. Community futures was on the chopping block, and my understanding is that the CEDOs were being reviewed. So we have had some discussions in the broader context as it relates to federal funding with respect to economic development programs, but we have no direct jurisdiction at this time. That program is currently in the hands of DIAND. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask the Minister what type of dialogue is going on and if there have been letters exchanged. Maybe he could let us know about it, perhaps even giving us copies of what's been going on so we will be totally informed, because once the chiefs of council find about this, they'll be coming to us, as MLAs, and we have to be informed about this. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Minister.

Further Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that there have been some meetings with the aboriginal groups. I know in the Nunavut area they've had some meetings directly with DIAND people. I'm not a party to those discussions. As I've said, we've been dealing with this thing in the broader context. We're just trying to endeavour, as we did with community futures, to ensure that these pots of money remain in the territories and that there's some integrity to the pots of money. In other words, they stay where they belong and in the hands of those that currently have them. That's the context in which we're dealing with this issue. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Question 653-12(7): Status Of Cedo Funding
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1412

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. We're on item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question to the Minister responsible for fire management. Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister responded to a question on June 5th, and had indicated to this House that two companies were contracted to provide an experienced pilot to accompany

the DC-4 crews. One was Foulger Aviation Services of British Columbia and the other was Ken Harvey Associates of Alberta. It was my understanding at the time that it was a different company; that it was Air Spray from Red Deer.

Can the Minister indicate to this House whether or not his department has used Air Spray to assist DC-4s this past summer? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not aware of it. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Morin, could you repeat your answer for the record.

Return To Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1413

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm not aware of it.

Return To Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1413

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Supplementary To Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1413

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Would he take the responsibility on of finding out from his department, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Question 654-12(7): Alberta Company Contracted To Assist Dc-4 Fire Crews
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1413

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd be pleased to do that.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Item 6, oral questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the Minister of Personnel. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister whether or not particularly in my riding, I know at times the Personnel department would allow representation and participation from the band or from the Metis with respect to the hiring process of government when they're hiring key positions at the senior level or at other levels within the government. Sometimes they allow for this participation. It appears though not to be consistent.

I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel whether or not he would consider active participation from the band and/or the Metis to assist in the hiring process, particularly for key positions at the regional level. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. The Minister responsible for Personnel.

Participation Of Aboriginal Groups In Hiring Senior Regional GNWT Employees

I know that the government has had involvement in a number of key positions when they're interviewing for those positions, to have a representative of the community be involved in the I don't know that it is part of the policy but I think it is a courtesy to involve local people, especially if the position is going to have an impact in the community. I certainly encourage the department to allow members of the community to participate in the interviews. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Participation Of Aboriginal Groups In Hiring Senior Regional GNWT Employees

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the Minister has encouraged this department to allow for participation from the community level because these positions do affect the community level and many times have a fairly great impact, would he consider requesting his department to develop some kind of policy to ensure that this direction is followed consistently? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Participation Of Aboriginal Groups In Hiring Senior Regional GNWT Employees

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don't know that a policy would be required, but I'll certainly ask the department to take a look at it. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Renewable Resources. It's with regard to Trout Lake. Mr. Speaker, Trout Lake is a very good place to go fishing, you can catch a fish on the first or second cast. There's all kinds of different activity going on in the small community of Trout Lake and the people there benefit economically from people that go in there. However, I'm concerned and the people from Trout Lake are concerned about it as well. Recently, on my trips into the community, people were concerned about how many fish are taken out of the lake.

There's a river by the community and there's another river which is across the lake called Moose River. It's hard to monitor some of these locations on the lake because people fly in with their own planes to fish, and there's no way to monitor how much fish are being taken out of this community. I would like to ask the Minister if his department has looked into the situation in Trout Lake, and if they have, what are they doing to monitor fishing in this lake? Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, very much. There are a couple of questions there, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Return To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know the department has regulations about how many fish can be taken out of the Northwest Territories by sport fishermen. I also realize that to try to enforce a regulation which is not applied directly in the communities is very difficult to monitor. I believe renewable resource officers are out to as many camps as they possibly can be throughout the fishing season, and they are trying to enforce these regulations. That is a general policy followed across the Northwest Territories by our officers. Now, with respect to the particular area the honourable Member is asking about, I will have to check that out. Thank you.

Return To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Supplementary, Mr. Antoine.

Supplementary To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The situation I described is common in this area. Is there a possibility of having a renewable resource officer stationed in this community because there is a lot of activity going on with regard to fishing in this lake? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Arngna'naaq.

Further Return To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

Silas Arngna'naaq Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we received requests from all regions in the Northwest Territories, where there is either a lot of fishing or hunting activity, especially on the part of sport hunters and sport fishermen. Certainly, I would be willing to consider the requests being made, but I would have to look at them in the context of what resources are available and where the work is most required. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Further Return To Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Question 656-12(7): Monitoring Fishing Activity At Trout Lake
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 1414

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Arngna'naaq. Item 6, oral questions. Item 7, written questions. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a written question for the Minister responsible for fire management. Would the Minister responsible for fire management provide to this House the person years used last year to attack fires in comparison to the current person years used this year to attack fires?

This would include seasonal PYs, casual PYs and indeterminate PYs.

Mr. Speaker, I have a few more, if I may proceed. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Carry on.

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. Would the Minister responsible for the Department of Finance provide to this House the amount of revenue raised by the GNWT fire management program through the MARS agreement from the 1993 season and the 1994 season?

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Would the Minister responsible for the fire management program provide to this House the standards of Renewable Resources for fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters?

Would the Minister also provide to this House the standards of Government Services for fixed-Wing aircraft and helicopters?

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

My last question is for the Minister responsible for the forest fire management program. Would he provide to this House:

1. The number of northern pilots currently working for Buffalo Airways flying DC-4s and CL-215s?

2. What are the pilot qualifications for DC-4s and CL-215s?

3. Would the Minister provide a copy of the contract signed with Buffalo Airways for heavy land-base equipment and CL-215s?

Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you very much, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. We're on item 7, written questions. Are there any other written questions? Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Mr. Nerysoo.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1414

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Petition No. 13-12(7), submitted by constituents of the Mackenzie Delta. This petition contains 138 signatures. The petition indicates concern regarding the ferry crossing schedules of the Peel River and the Mackenzie River crossings and seeks a change in the schedules. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 10: Petitions
Item 10: Petitions

Page 1414

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Pudlat.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1415

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1415

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table Tabled Document 145-12(7), a report titled, "The Loss Of Sales of Fur in the European Market Due to Use of Inhumane Traps and the Need to Ask for an Extension of Currently-Used Traps for Another Year." This will soon be livelihood of many of our people, and it is a request made by the Canadians, Americans and Russians. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1415

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pudlat. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Pollard.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1415

John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, Tabled Document 146-12(7), an excerpt from the human resource manual, section 701, regarding the process for investigating recommendations for dismissal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

Page 1415

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills.

By the authority given the Speaker by Motion 16-12(7), I place the House into committee of the whole until such time as the committee is prepared to report out. We will now go on to item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 -The Education Act; Bill 25, Education Act; and, Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96, with Mr. Ningark in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The committee will come to order. When we concluded on Friday, we were dealing with Bill 25, Education Act. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend that we resume consideration of Committee Report 11-12(7) and Bill 25, Education Act.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we have the agreement of the committee that we shall continue with Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 - The Education Act and Bill 25, Education Act. Do we agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. If the Minister wishes to call in the witnesses, we will ask the committee that he be allowed to after the break when we come back. Mr. Minister.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We will take a 10- minute break and then resume.

---SHORT RECESS

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Thank you. Before we took the time-out, the honourable Minister requested to bring in the witnesses and there was concurrence of the committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort in the witnesses. Thank you.

Good afternoon. Mr. Minister, for the record, would you please introduce the witnesses to the committee.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my immediate right is Carol Whitehouse, legislative counsel; on my immediate left is Mr. Hal Gerein, deputy minister; on my far left is Gail Joyce; behind on the left, is Mr. Eric Colbourne; and, on my back left is Ms. Janet Grinsted, senior policy advisor.

Committee Report 11-12(7): Report On The Review Of Bill 25 -the Education ActBill 25: Education Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you kindly, Mr. Minister. When we concluded dealing with matters in committee of the whole on Friday, June 16, 1995, we were dealing with clause 5 of Bill 25. At that time, there was a motion on the floor moved by the honourable Minister. I will read the motion, for the record, and to refresh Members' memories about what the motion was:

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

That clause 5 of Bill 25 be amended by striking out "within five months after the beginning of the academic year," and by substituting "on or before December 31 of the academic year," in proposed paragraph (1)(a).

To the motion.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. We need one more person, so I will ring the bell. Thank you. I would now like to recognize a quorum. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

For the record, I would like to remind Members that you can't vote on a motion unless you're sitting down. Clause 5 of Bill 25, as amended.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1415

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Koe, to clause 5.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Fred Koe Inuvik

Under subsection (b), what definition of "residency" are we using in this act?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, it's right there in front of you, but I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain it.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

The residency is 12 months.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This section sets out three qualifications a person has to meet in order to be entitled to access the education program. You have to reach a specific age, which is set out in paragraph (a); in (b), you have to be a resident and if they are an adult, they must be a resident for 12 months immediately preceding the date of registration; and, they have to be a Canadian citizen or a child of a Canadian citizen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 5, as amended. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I just need clarification Is it just clause 5.(1) that we voted on, or (1)(a), or does it include clause 5.(2)?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe we voted on (1)(a), but I will get clarification from the Minister. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, it was 5.(1)(a).

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

I am informed by the Clerk that, even though we're dealing with (1)(a) of clause 5, the motion as passed by the committee subsequently amended the whole clause, according to my understanding. Member for Thebacha, do you have a further question? Clause 5, as amended.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We'll move on to clause 6. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I don't have any questions about clause 6. I think clause 6 clarifies subsections (1) and (2), particularly subsection (2), which I was concerned about under clause 5.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Member for Thebacha, are you seeking consent from the committee to go back to clause 5.(2)? No? Okay, thank you. Clause 5 is approved. We're dealing with clause 6.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. I have Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of concerns with clause 7. I noted in talking with the local school boards that they expressed concern that support services are not defined, in talking about inclusive schooling under clause 7.(1) and (2). I'm wondering if the intention is to define that in the regulations, or if we can get a clearer expression from the Minister about just exactly how support services will be defined.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Support services are for inclusive schooling. The problem with trying to articulate all support services is that each particular child may have different support services that are necessary, depending on the educational program they're involved in. The intention is for us to outline generally, in policy, what those program support services should be and then try to address that program with the student and the parents.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess what is concerning the school boards is that it says that an education body "shall provide a student with the support services necessary." I guess the concern is that the Minister could, in fact, direct that support services be provided in excess of what funding might be provided to supply those services. Perhaps the Minister could advise whether this sort of thing will be covered by regulations. Is there some assurance that the Minister will not direct a school system or education body to provide services in excess of what the government is prepared to pay for?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Merci. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, that will always be a problem, though. The fact is that unless it is clear that there is a requirement for the boards to provide the educational programming, the fiscal question will also be a primary and basic concern. The problem with that is that all children, no matter what circumstances they may be in or what problems they may be encountering, have to be given some right to an educational program.

I appreciate the concern that has been raised, but I think the issue is that there has to be better planning and better organization of the resources. We may not be able to deliver all those requests that are being made, but we may be able to organize it in a much better arrangement so that our resources are used better.

No matter what happens, Mr. Chairman, that issue of resources will always be a factor. There has to be consideration in the program that we offer, as well. But that should not be an excuse. The problem is that it's been an excuse for people to avoid deliver programs. I understand the concern that has been raised, but I think it's something that needs to be worked out.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I have Mr. Dent, then Mr. Koe. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1416

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the Minister has basically said this, but just to make sure that I, in fact, heard

him; it sounded like what he was proposing to do was ensure that there was a consultative process that was undertaken between the department and education authorities when it comes to setting the standards and the programs for inclusive schooling.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is certainly our intention. It's certainly not our intention to give direction when none of us has an ability to live up to that responsibility. So I concur with the comments the honourable Member has made.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Qujannamiik. Clause 7. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One other concern that has been expressed to me by a group in Yellowknife --and that's AIDS Yellowknife --has to do with section 7.(3)(a). This section would deny a student access to schooling where the chief medical health officer advises a principal that the student has a communicable disease and should not attend for reasons of the health and safety of other students.

Mr. Chairman, I guess the question is what protection or guarantee can we offer those who have HIV or AIDS, that this provision will not be used to deny them access to education?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, if I might ask Ms. Joyce to explain.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This clause was actually written with that particular concern in mind, knowing that it's only the chief medical health officer who can then decide whether or not a child with HIV is too unwell to attend school. This is not the medical condition of the child; it is in confidence, and this is to protect that confidence.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Continuing on with that, I guess the concern stems from the fact that HIV is considered a communicable disease. Although the method of transmission for HIV is significantly different than most other diseases about which people would have concerns, I guess the answer would tend to indicate that in this act we're relying on the chief medical officer of health to recognize that the method of transmission of AIDS typically doesn't pose a significant risk to children in the classroom. Is that actually the case?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

John Ningark Natilikmiot

Thank you. Through Mr. Minister, Ms. Joyce.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This clause is for the safety or health of that particular student. It's so that a student with AIDS or with HIV cannot be restricted from a regular classroom setting, only on the advice of the chief medical health officer.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Just to follow up --and this doesn't actually apply to the act, but now that we're on the subject --could the Minister or his officials advise me if guidelines have been established? Have we established universal precautions for dealing with bodily fluids in those situations where Education, Culture and Employment has jurisdiction? For instance, are teaching professionals well versed in such precautions in the Northwest Territories?

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have those established under a protocol between us, the divisional boards, I believe, and Health and Social Services and the departments.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. Some of the issues I wanted to raise have already been raised by Mr. Dent, but I just want to make a couple of comments. In the whole area of inclusive schooling, one of the issues with the committee when we were travelling around was trying to put a definition on "inclusive schooling." People tend to group any special needs, which is what it is, into this category. So I'm just wondering if there is a set definition for inclusive schooling.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Mahsi. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess that is generally an expression of the right under clause 7. The problem that most people want to get is the whole issue of what makes up inclusive schooling and what are the educational programs. You might say it's more a philosophical approach more than a definitive approach, because each student is very different depending on their personal situation.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 7. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1417

Fred Koe Inuvik

In a community you need a lot of cooperation, a lot of coordination to accommodate students with special needs, especially handicapped students. I just want to say that we have to continue to encourage any programs which will enhance the student's ability to go to school, and also to be integrated into community activities. One area that has concerned me --and I've raised it several times over the last four years --is the issue of people who seem to fall between the cracks once they're out of school. It used to be at 18, but I think now the age is 19 or 21. They had special programs for handicapped people going to school who were integrated into the school system. Then, once they ceased to become a student because of age, there was no one else to look after them in this transition period. Hopefully, with the amalgamation of the departments of Health and Social Services, working in conjunction with Education, Culture and Employment, we'll continue to look after these people who are severely handicapped.

One other area that was raised by Yellowknife District No. 1 was the area of funding and ensuring that the department and the different boards work out proper formulas. I know it's in here, that there are qualifications to how much money there is and there are limitations because of the fiscal positions of the government. But if we are making it permissive, then there has to be a mechanism so that things can be worked out satisfactorily for the people we are trying to include under this category. Those are some comments I wanted to make. Thank you.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 7. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the record, I wonder if the Minister can indicate the definition, for clarity purposes, with respect to inclusive schooling? Thank you.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we will also do, Mr. Chairman, is give a copy of the "Educating Our Children" departmental directive on inclusive schooling. What we have indicated in there is that inclusive schooling is a philosophical and practical educational approach which strives to respond to individual student needs and is intended to ensure equal access for all students through educational programs offered in regular classroom settings. We have indicated that inclusive schooling is mandatory within the Northwest Territories school system, subject to the principles, limitations and exceptions that are noted in the policy.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe that is already enshrined in the Constitution of the country. Clause 7. Yes, Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A lot of comments came from my constituency with regard to the concept of inclusive schooling for children. Many support the concept, however, and have come to recognize fairly quickly the lack of resources and feel that inclusion without resources, without support, without teacher preparation time, without commitment, without vision statements, without proper staff development and without flexible curriculum just doesn't seem to work.

As we know, inclusive schooling is an obligation from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to accommodate children in the regular classrooms. There seems to be a fair amount of designation of children to these classrooms, and there seems to be, at times, a lot of pretence about what's happening with inclusion.

But there are, many times, wide differences in children's needs and the kinds of environments that can address these types of differences. I think inclusive schooling is good for some children, and some parents will probably greatly support it; however, at the same time, I think the opposite is also true.

I think that we must give the option to the parents and to the children because we have noticed that there has been a significant reduction of resources, we have noticed a significant reduction in even funding towards the school boards and it's making it very difficult for the school boards, and the Community education councils to address inclusive schooling. I think that if the Minister's department is sincere with respect to inclusive schooling, they have to make a concerted effort in giving the schools the resources they need to address inclusive schooling. I mean, you can all say everything really nice about inclusive schooling but if you don't give them the funding they need, inclusive schooling is just paying lip service to the residents of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Chairman, I think, if inclusive schooling is going to work, particularly when you are looking at designating children with significant disabilities into regular classrooms in the name of inclusion, I don't believe it will work unless we put resources into these classrooms to support this type of child.

We have to ask ourselves, if we are going to allow inclusive schooling to work, whether or not the class sizes will decrease. We've noticed, over the years, that the class sizes have tremendously increased because of the fact that the funding has been so tight that resources are limited. Therefore, another way for the CECs and the school boards to address that is to increase class sizes even though the policy indicates different.

We have to ask ourselves, will our teachers be trained and prepared for inclusion with regard to addressing disabled children? Will parents be prepared to give the support that's needed? Will there be full-time trained special education assistants to assist students throughout the day, and will there be basic specialist support for classroom teachers? Would all the children be kept up with regard to their educational goals? Will they all be able to determine goals and will teachers be able to support them in attaining those goals?

Some of the questions that came to me with regard to this whole issue of inclusive schooling are, is the department attempting to address inclusive schooling in order to save funding and to provide regular classrooms with the support needed if this is to succeed? I think that's really critical. I think inclusive schooling can only be effective and successful if the schools are going to get the proper support services, and this has to come from the department. It's easy to say to the divisional boards address inclusive schooling, but if you don't give the proper resources, there would be very little meaning and substance to that particular portion of the act.

So I want to indicate to the Minister that there is a grave concern regarding inclusive schooling due to the fact that there is a lack of a resources, a lack of funding to address inclusive schooling. I recognize that the Minister looks at special needs and other areas, but it still fails to address the concerns expressed, particularly from the community of Fort Smith where many people are concerned that they ensure their children have a good education and are given proper resources.

So there are many questions that have to be asked, and I think there are many questions that have to be answered by the department to indicate the measurement of security or sincerity with respect to inclusive schooling in this particular area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 7. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1418

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments made by the honourable Member. I think that much of the commitment comes not only from the department but from this Assembly as well, depending on how we vote the resources for investment. Just let me assure the honourable Member and the public of the north that in the last

12 years, since 1983 when we had about $500,000 in the budget, in comparison to now where we have over $10 million, shows the direction that we're going in in this particular area.

The comments that were made by the honourable Member are really a reflection of the concerns generally across the Northwest Territories. The other point we should note is that it's clearly indicated to us about the high needs in the territories and that the only way to resolve it is through the comments made by the honourable Member; that is, that we have to work together. It's not simply a matter of the department telling the boards what to do, but rather to work in conjunction with the boards to help them resolve these issues.

However, not all of these issues require money. It requires, as well, a lot of good planning on the part of the boards. It requires workshops and it requires a willingness on their part to implement the inclusive schooling strategy. I agree with the honourable Member and I appreciate the comments that she's made with regard to this issue.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 7. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We can certainly sit here and gloat about how much we've given to education but at the same time we've got to take into consideration the increase of our population and the number of schools we have created across the Northwest Territories. I know that the Legislative Assembly has been very supportive overall towards the Department of Education over the years. When the Minister indicated from 1983 until now the department's budget going from hundreds of thousands to millions, certainly they've shown some commitment over 12 years but there's been significant growth in population over 12 years.

At the same time, there's also been significant growth --and I'm sure he can look back --in his bureaucracy for delivering these types of programs. Back in 1983, there was probably no such thing as --and I could be corrected --special needs students and disabled students in the system. There were no special needs assistants in the schools. There was little support at that particular level because schools were just then taking into consideration disabled people.

I commend them for that but what I am saying is that in as much as inclusive schooling is in the act, we're indicating in this act that every student is entitled to have access to the education program in a regular instructional setting in a public school or public denomination school in the community in which the student resides. We're indicating that every student has the opportunity, but quality is the question. It's important to maintain that quality of education that we, as northerners, have been proud of. It appears that the lack of financial support certainly has been tighter because of fiscal restraints but, at the same time, has been making a very difficult for the divisional boards, regardless of the good planning they attempt to make with respect to the lack of funding they get from the department.

I look at the 2.5 per cent cut fight across the board on divisional boards and who's to say they don't get more disabled children; that they have an increased need for SNAs or any type of special needs program. What they've got isn't the additional support when you look at the 2.5 per cent that was cut from forced growth.

You can put everything in the act that you want but until you can indicate to the communities that you are going to uphold You know, I guess that's where your proof in the pudding comes from. We can go on and on and state that but what I'm saying from my constituency is that inclusive schooling is still a great concern with the diminishing amount of funding resources being eroded, and it is affecting the quality of education of our students. It's something that I'm sure no Legislative Assembly Member wants to see. Thank you.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 7. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I don't want to debate with the honourable Member, I think she has a legitimate concern. The investment decisions are made here by all Members of the Assembly. I agree with her and hope that in future other assemblies will be as cognizant and concerned about it as the honourable Member. I think it's critical in making our final decision on the budget.

Committee Motion 73-12(7): To Amend Clause 5 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 7. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 7 of Bill 25 be amended by

(a) striking out "or the student if the student" in proposed paragraph (3)(b) and by substituting "or the student, if the student";

(b) striking out "registered at a" in proposed paragraph (3)(e) and by substituting "registered with a"; and

(c) striking out "Le paragrahe (3)" in the French version of proposed subsection (4) and by substituting "Le paragraphe (3)".

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Minister. The motion is in order. To the motion. Okay we'll give the Members a moment to look at the motion. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are just technical changes because the original wording in the legislation ...There was a technical problem with it.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1419

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 7, as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 8 of Bill 25, page 10. Clause 8. Agreed?

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Fred Koe Inuvik

(Microphone turned off) ...clause 9. Thanks.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Okay. Clause 9. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would like some clarification on clause 9 dealing with the processes and who may be designated. Are they talking about professional people, doctors, or just anybody? I need some clarification on who can assess a student.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I'll ask Ms. Joyce to answer.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Either the parent or the principal may initiate the request and, as far as who is assessing the student, Mr. Koe is correct that it would be professionals who would assess the student.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 9 of Bill 25. Agreed?

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We shall move on to clause 10. I have Mr. Ballantyne and Mr. Koe. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, this clause gives us some concern and probably needs some clarification by the Minister. If the clarification is not enough to resolve the issue, I have an amendment. The problem here is, we want to make sure that if, for instance, in a different district a program is not offered and it is decided it would be in the best interest of the student to go to Yellowknife, Fort Smith, lqaluit or whatever, the way it's worded now, the receiving board is responsible for providing accommodation. Our feeling is that it should be very clear that the board from which the student comes that should be responsible.

I'll give you a number of reasons: one, there are financial implications of that; second, I'm sure the parent and the student would be much more comfortable if they had the responsibility to choose where the kid is going to stay. I think it's unfair to put this responsibility on the board to which the student is coming. It has been stated many many times that here in Yellowknife we welcome students if programs aren't offered in other communities or regions. But, it should be very clear that it is the responsibility of the student's home district to: one, pay for it; and second, to have the responsibility to make sure the student has proper accommodation.

For many reasons, it makes a lot of sense. I wonder if the Minister can clarify here. We need a little bit of light on this particular section. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Minister Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to make general comments on the comments that have been made and then ask Mr. Gerein to give you some of the specifies. How we deal with the matter of accommodation is based on the departmental directive on community senior secondary schooling. Part of it deals with ensuring that, whenever we make a determination for students to go from one region to another, part of the decision includes the matter of fiscal resources and agreement by which another board will assume responsibility for students coming in from other jurisdictions.

At this particular time, we provide each divisional board with resources for accommodation in their formula arrangement. So, if they're prepared to send students to other divisional board jurisdictions, they have to assume responsibility to provide the resources for those students to the receiving board jurisdiction. I just want to make that clear. The policy is very clear about that. I will not only provide you with a copy of the inclusive schooling policy, but also a copy, at some time, of the senior secondary schooling policy. It is very clear in that document that this matter has to be dealt with. Mr. Gerein.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

On the specific aspects of the document, Mr. Gerein.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As well, in actual effect, what happens is where the host board receives several students who wish to come from a board who is sending the students, the host board and receiving board may wish to agree on a set of guidelines they would use for selection of home boarding parents. They could advertise and those people in the community who would like -to offer home boarding services to students can apply. The originating board can screen those and offer a list of homes to the students who wish to attend outside of their home jurisdiction. It actually works quite well in practice, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 10. Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

I understand how it works, it's just that I'm not 100 per cent clear about the wording that was chosen. If that's so, why does it then state that the education district where the senior secondary education program is offered shall provide the student with accommodation? Why doesn't it go the other way around? Here, if someone wants to change the policy, the act really gives that responsibility to the receiving board and not to the sending board, as it were.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1420

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I will ask Ms. Joyce to clearly explain that particular matter.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Joyce.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. According to the policy, the reason that the receiving policy, as Mr. Ballantyne has pointed out, is referred to in this section is because that's the district that will be receiving the funding, through the funding formula, for the accommodation. There is an agreement between the district authorities and it is this body that actually receives the accommodation funding to accommodate those students.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 10, Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

It will probably work right now, but what happens if, for instance, because of government cutbacks or whatever, the formula changes and not enough money comes with a student? Then, according to this, it would still be the responsibility of the receiving board to provide accommodation. The question is, the amendment we have -- and we had some problems with an amendment the other day, so I don't want to throw something on the floor here and mess up the whole process, that's why I wanted to talk a little bit about it --which the Minister has seen a copy of, has the same wording, but it just changes it around so that the sending board has the responsibility, as opposed to the receiving board.

I'll rephrase the question: what is the problem with putting an amendment in that says that, just to clarify it? I think this would clarity it for the long term.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, I will ask Mr. Gerein again to respond.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Gerein.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Gerein

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The originating board or the sending board receives all the funding for the student and they're required to reach agreement with the host board as to the education and accommodation of the student. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 10, Mr. Ballantyne.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Yes, so if the sending board, the home board, where the student is starting off receives that funding, wouldn't it make sense to change the act around to say that it would be that board that would be responsible for funding the accommodation, as opposed to the host board? Then there's absolute clarity. Is there a problem with that? Because if there's no problem, then I'll move that amendment and nothing changes, except it's very clear that it's the responsibility of the sending board to provide the accommodation. Of course, they will work out whatever arrangement and the receiving boards can give a list, or whatever.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, it's very difficult, Mr. Chairman, to say yes or no. It may be from a technical view, possible, but we haven't concluded our discussions on it, so I don't know.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne.

We can move on to some other clauses. What I suggest is we defer this particular clause, move on and we'll take a little more time. Then once we have it sorted out amongst everybody, then we can bring it forward. I move to defer this item.

Committee Motion 74-12(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Ballantyne, perhaps you can specifically state the specific clause deferred. Can you repeat the motion, please?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Michael Ballantyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, I move that clause 10 of this act be deferred.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion on the floor to defer clause 10. To the motion. Mr. Minister, did you want to speak to the motion?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

(Microphone turned off)

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 10 of Bill 25 is deferred.

Clause 11.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 12. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would just like to say for the record that for clauses 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 --and I only want to say it once --we have to respect treaty and aboriginal rights because all these clauses have the word "tuition" in them, and I want to make the record very clear that I'm very concerned about setting tuition fees on aboriginal people. I'm opposed to that at this stage.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Your concern is duly noted. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1421

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Just for the advice of my honourable colleagues, there is already a section in the existing Education Act which deals with this particular matter. So we're taking that as part of a change, that we're allowing this particular matter to be part of the responsibility of the district education authorities and the divisional educational councils.

One other thing that I want to advise the honourable Member of is that we do take note of the concern. It was one of the discussions we held with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs on the matter of transportation and other tuition matters. I believe in Yellowknife we resolved it. Some of these issues can be resolved, with the discussion of the department itself. So we have already noted that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to subsection (2), I'm just wondering who is intended to enforce the provisions of this act.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

HON, RICHARD NERYSOO: I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to respond, please.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a general penalty provision that basically anyone can enforce. It is aimed at a parent of a child who has not yet become a student, so a social agency could enforce it, the school itself or a citizen of the Northwest Territories could report a person under (2) and start the process.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know there is some concern among school boards that it shouldn't be seen as their responsibility to necessarily enforce the provisions of compulsory attendance. I think we all support compulsory attendance, and I think it's something that I shouldn't say we all do, I should say that there is, in general, widespread support for compulsory attendance. But unless there's a simple and effective means of enforcing it, is there any point to having it in the bill? I don't think that any of the school districts would feel that they have the resources to police and enforce compulsory attendance.

Is there going to be a territorial truant officer who is going to go around and police whether or not people have registered and are attending, or is this being left up to the general public or someone who is out there who notices a problem to make a complaint?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to respond again.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are two sections in the act that the Member is referring to. Section 12 deals with the requirement to register a child. Section 27 of the proposed bill is the section that requires attendance once a child is registered as a student. It is section 27 that the act provides the school and the principal to enforce. Under section 12, until a child is registered with a school, the school can't enforce the attendance of that child. This section is simply to require the parent to register the child with a school. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12. I have Mrs. Thompson and Mr. Antoine. Mrs. Thompson.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Mr. Chairman, the question I was going to ask is who will initiate charges, and it's already been answered. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. On clause 12, the section on registration and tuition, I am in the same position as my colleague, Mr. Fred Koe, with regard to treaty rights. Instead of charging the aboriginal people to go to school, this is part of the treaty rights.

In section 12, I would like to ask if this is a new section of the act. Was it in the act before; section 12.(1), where a parent has to register a child between the ages of six and 16 in school? Is this a new thing in this act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, the whole matter of tuition fees was a matter that was in the previous Education Act. What is new in this particular component is the requirement to register children from ages six to 16. That is the requirement now, but this is nothing new.

The honourable Member, as well, in his motion regarding the amendment to clause 4, was intending to ensure that we wore protecting the rights of aboriginal people. It would then affect all the sections and all the components in the legislation, as well.

The other thing that is important to consider though is that we have had a number of discussions with Indian and Northern Affairs. This whole matter of treaty rights or aboriginal rights is an outstanding one. While we are administrating the system, those issues, in my view, still have to be resolved between the aboriginal groups, the treaty people and the federal government. But it's certainly not our intention in any way to take away rights that may exist or, for that matter, obligate the federal government to assume its responsibility in this area. So we support the comments made by the honourable Member.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister told us that section 12.(1) is a new section that is not in the current Education Act. There is a requirement here to register a child of six years of age up to 16 years of age. I would like to ask the Minister why the department saw fit to have this clause included in this act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1422

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Maybe I could ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain, but I believe what is intended is that there is a requirement to register children in school or a school program for the purpose of ensuring that we apply the

compulsory education component. There has been a number of comments made by Members of the House that there is a need and there should be a requirement for children to attend school. So we need them to register in order for us to apply the rules in subsequent sections of this legislation.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going on to section 12.(2), there is an offence and a punishment, where if a person does not register a child, he or she is guilty of an offence and has to pay a $100 fine per child, I take it.

We are told that anybody can lay this charge, and that's kind of ambiguous. Maybe that's one of the reasons they have section 1 here so as to try to start collecting money from parents who don't register their children. Later in this act, you talk about a hefty fine of about $500 for a child who doesn't go to school. So it's a way of identifying who should be in school and, if a person is out of school, the district will collect money from them.

My question is, if a conviction with a fine of $100 can be brought down upon a person for not registering his or her child, what is the next step? What do you do? Is there a process for this person to appeal that? I am thinking about a community where there's no employment. It could be someone who has very limited funds. If a person cannot pay the $100, what happens then? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I will ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain, but I just want to advise the honourable Member, this is a maximum fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what the fine is going to be. But I will ask Ms. Whitehouse to explain.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What the Minister said is correct. The fine is a maximum, and the amount of $100 is set there as a guideline for the court to indicate partially the seriousness of the offense and the maximum penalty. A fine is not the only penalty, though, that may be levied. II someone pleads guilty or is convicted of an offence under this section, they may receive an alternative punishment instead of a fine, such as community service work or something if they are unable to pay a fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To Clause 12. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

(Microphone turned off) ...Mr. Chairman. Personally, I totally disagree with charging anybody. I just wanted to ask a question.

I take it this is the first time that this government is doing this in this act. I take it that this is not in the current act but that this is new. I would like to ask the Minister if his department has talked about what it would mean in the communities, because right now it is pretty ambiguous. If someone lays a charge that this person never registered a child and it goes to court, then here again we are leaving it up to the courts to decide.

I would like to ask the Minister what his department has come up with regarding what it now means for parents in the communities with this new provision in the act? Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. For the advice of the honourable Member, there were fines for compulsory attendance before. The problem is that I guess it was never, what you might say, pursued to the extent necessary.

I just want to go back, Mr. Chairman, because there are two different views that are being expressed here. One is that on a number of occasions we have been told that students should be forced to attend school, so we are now in the process of making sure that we do register so that we have an indication as to whether or not we should be enforcing the whole matter of compulsory education.

Now, having said that, Mr. Chairman, we are offering a number of other options available to parents which were never part of the program; such as home schooling, that could be a part of the program, or, for that matter, private school. Even though we had, I believe, private schools before, there was never a clear indication that that is the direction we wanted to go. But that option is now available to students.

So we have a bit of a dilemma in that either we register children so we can enforce compulsory education or we do not register them and not have compulsory education, because you can't enforce compulsory education without forcing people to register students. So that is a bit of a dilemma that the honourable Member is raising.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To Clause 12. I have Mrs. Thompson.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

My question, Mr. Chairman, is, in a small community like Repulse Bay, I have seen students who quit school at 14 or 15 years old; they don't attend school again. I am just taking Repulse Bay as an example of what happens in a smaller community. What happens when a student quits school when he's 14 or 15 years old? Does he get registered and become a non-attender for the rest of the year, getting charged $500 according to section 28 of the act?

I think that is a concern of the parents. A lot of parents in small communities don't have any employment, and I don't think that is a very acceptable situation, to be charged for not registering your children. It just doesn't seem to make sense for a small community. If it was community work, instead of fines, it would probably make more sense; volunteer work as a punishment. So my question is, what happens if a child quits school at 15 years old or 14 years old? Does the parent register them and they then become a non-attender for the rest of the year? What happens in that case? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1423

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Well, Mr. Chairman, I can't deal with that section; I'm only dealing with clause 12 which deals with registration. Attendance is dealt with in clause 27. I'll respond to that when we get to clause 27. I guess there is a philosophical difference being reflected in the Assembly right now. Either we register the children and have compulsory education, or we say we're not interested in registering the children. There's a big difference. If we're not interested in registering children, then we're not interested in compulsory education. That's the philosophical difference. My view is that there is a need for us to register children to ensure that children go to school. In this particular section, there is a liability for parents, not the students.

It doesn't necessarily mean that a fine will be levied. There may be other ways where we resolve the matter of a student being registered or maybe, for that matter, being registered later than is normally accepted. There is a requirement for all of us to determine whether we want the children to be registered. That's the first issue. Once that is resolved, then section 27 and attendance comes into effect.

Again, while the $500 is there, that doesn't necessarily mean that the $500 fine is levied. There may be other ways to resolve it. What we need is to indicate penalties for parents because right now the student has the right to an educational program. The parent then has the duty to ensure that the students receive the educational program. If you want to withdraw the fines, that's one thing, but then the question is, what is the penalty for parents? If there's none, then what is the basis on which we force parents to register their students or, for that matter, force parents to ensure their children go to school? That's the issue. Those are two elements, but I think they're important.

There are all kinds of options, but there has to be a punishment, and I think that's what we're trying to get at in those two areas.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Thompson.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

I understand what you're saying. So, it will be up to the CEC if they want to fine $10, right? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

No, the district education authorities can't determine the fine, it is up to the Justice of the Peace or the judge, but the CEC can lay the charge. Then it is up to the judge to make that judgment. There cannot be an automatic-fine for someone, it has to be through the process of the judiciary. Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Zoe, to clause 12 Of Bill 25.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I have no problem with this section. The only concern I have is who is going to be enforcing this section. I would have hoped that the authority would have been given to the local education bodies. Because it's so general, it means any individual, board member or the board could do that. But, if we were more specific, I think it would cover the concerns of a lot of Members, where the discretion is given to the board to determine if they should lay a charge on a parent or not. I think the concern of a lot of Members is that it is too general. It means anyone could file a complaint and if they investigate and it was determined that a parent hadn't registered their child, they would have to go through the court process and it would be up to the court to determine the fine or other alternatives.

I think that's the concern I have. I think some of us are saying maybe it should be designated, specifically, to the local education authority, rather than leaving it as general as is being proposed now. Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 12. Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Mr. Chairman, I raised a concern and I was hoping the Minister would respond to it. Because section 12 is so general, maybe a provision could be incorporated into it, such as consent of the Minister to prosecute, consent of the local authority or something to that effect. That way, we can be satisfied that not anybody off the street could lay a complaint and a charge against a parent. I think if we do that, this section would be easily understood. I think a lot of Members are saying that maybe the board should determine who should be charged and who shouldn't.

I was hoping to see something like that incorporated into clause 12 to satisfy the majority of the Members. I agree with what the Minister said earlier; that in order to have compulsory attendance, we need to have kids registered. I think the process they're proposing is the right one, but the other concern is who can prosecute the parents. Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. The problem is you have to read all the sections together. Section 117.(b), powers of the education body, deals with the matter of ensuring the enforcement of a child under section 12. That's one of the duties of the education body. If you go back to the principal's duties under section 69.(3)(1), it reads: "enforce the provisions of this act and regulations relating to the attendance of students at the school or designate a member of the educational staff to enforce them." In other words, one section deals with the education body having the responsibility and then in another section, the principal can designate a staff member. It could be, in some cases, the school counsellor. This is what we have to make sure happens. You have to connect all of these sections. The sections don't act alone in the bill.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Minister, don't lead the way for other members of the committee to refer to other sections we haven't been through yet. Clause 12. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I don't want to lead the way, but they're asking questions, Mr. Chairman, that are affected by other sections. We're dealing with a bill that has lots of connecting factors. Sorry about that, Mr. Chairman. been given to the local education bodies. Because it's so

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1424

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe Mrs. Thompson did that, and you were quick to remind her that we are not dealing with that yet. Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Mr. Chairman, I would like clarification on clause 12.(2). There was a response saying that before parents are given penalties, they could use other means; or there will be penalties before a parent is given a fine. I wonder how that would be done. Would there be community service available, or what process would be used if a parent is not fined but they have to pay a certain amount for not sending their children to school? What kinds of penalties would there be? I wonder if there would be community service, or would they always have to pay cash? I just want to get clarification on that area. Thank you.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Education.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The district education authority or the district education council can decide on the matter of whether or not to charge a person or, for that matter, to talk to them. Maybe there might be a solution other than charging an individual. There may be a way in which we can encourage the parents to send their children to school and register them. So it's not a matter of simply charging them.

The other thing is that a justice of the peace can be used to decide the remedy. The fact is that they can determine that there's a different way of solving this problem, other than fining or having someone pay money. However that is resolved, I leave that up to those who are involved and leave that to the judge to decide. But there are options, including community service, if that's necessary.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 12. Agreed?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you very much. Clause 13. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of quick questions on clause 13. Could I get a definition or could we find out how "tuition fee" is defined; and also, how is "resides" defined?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. A couple of questions, Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Could I get Ms. Joyce to respond, please?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Ms. Joyce.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister may give direction on tuition fees, but largely it's the power of the district education authorities and the divisional education councils to determine a tuition fee.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 13. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I guess for clarification, if a school district charges a fee for books or a fee for supplies in a science class or something, is that considered a tuition fee? I'm just wondering, is tuition fee clearly defined anywhere in this bill so that everybody understands exactly what sorts of fees would be covered by this?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, there is a later section that speaks to this, but I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to speak to this matter.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The actual phrase"'tuition fee" is not defined in the act, it is left up to the education body to determine what the tuition fee will be. In a later section in the act in the powers that are given to the education body, different types of fees are set out, and fees other than tuition fees are also established. Tuition fees would generally be for regular program activities, and other things are set out separately. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 13 of Bill 25.

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We shall move on to the next page, page 12. Clause 14. Agreed?

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 75-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 10 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 15. Mr. Minister, to clause 15.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 15 of Bill 25 be amended by striking out "fee established by the Minister in respect of that person." and by substituting "fee".

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, we will pause momentarily while the motion is being distributed.

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. All those in favour of the motion, please signify. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 15, as amended.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1425

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 16 of Bill 25.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 17.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 18.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 19. God bless you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. Clause 19.(3) sets the qualifications for a child who's eligible. Are there any provisions for exceptions or is this the rule, even if we have a potential Einstein who's born on December 29th, you know, one or two days before. There's no exception if this particular clause passes?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee asked for certainty in it. The matter on this is that the Members asked for certainty in this area. We amended the legislation to respond to the Members so that parents can plan and know that there are no exceptions, this is the rule. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 19. Agreed?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 20.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 21. Agreed? Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clause 21,(2)(a), "...the school will provide a school program approved by the Minister." I want to get a comment on the record from the Minister to find out exactly what this means. I know that the department has spent a lot of time talking about programs and setting up long-term plans and I think that what we're looking for is that this won't be a program that is just picked out of the air but one that will tie into the goal of excellence, which is a laudable one that the department has adopted already, and that it will be results-based. I want to make sure that that's the sort of goal that this section, in particular, is intended to foster.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From the comments that the honourable Member has made, just to confirm, Mr. Chairman, our view; we share the same views expressed by the honourable Member. It's certainly our intention to ensure that there are comparative standards between those programs that are offered in our existing public denominational school programs...that we can compare with the north and also compare with other Canadian circumstances.

In this particular case, there are no regulations to be written. It will be criteria identifying standards and learning objectives. That's the basis on which we're going to consider the whole matter of private schools. The comments the honourable Member has made with regard to standards of excellence, comparative programming with other jurisdictions in this country, and what is normally an acceptable program, acceptable for post-secondary institutions, is the other component. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 21. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would like some clarification on section (3), where the Minister can cancel or suspend registration of a school and what (b) says, "in the opinion of the Minister, the students are not achieving acceptable progress." In other parts of the act, we give parents some responsibility and they can participate in working out educational plans. My question is what say does a parent have with regard to this section?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. First of all, as parents, they are enrolling their children in a private school which has agreed to certain educational programs and certain educational standards. They have made the determination that their children should be part of that program. What this particular component allows us to do is to indicate that in comparative terms, the program is not meeting what has been agreed to in terms of the educational programs and the standards.

Then we have to take the view that they're not performing the agreement that has been reached between the private school and the Minister. In that context, there has to be a decision by the Minister to address the matter of the school. That's the basis on which the parents are involved and the basis on which any decision is made to remove, suspend or cancel the registration of a private school.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 21.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 22.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1426

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 23. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

Under clause 23, the student representative may attend public meetings of the district educational authority. Can they attend public meetings of divisional education councils? Why is it only limited to the district education authority?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The matter that is before you is a matter of the students being involved in the community schooling arrangement. That's the reason why it's not a matter of the division.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 23. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

There's nothing restricting the student rep from going to the public meetings, right? I just want that clarification. They can attend public meetings of divisional education councils?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. There's nothing in the legislation that is restrictive with regard to attendance at divisional education council meetings. What this deals with is ensuring that there is representation with the district education authority. That is what we've made a commitment to include.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 23. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

The other point I would like to make, again, is qualifications, and the big qualification is that the principal shall set the guidelines. Does the guidelines set by the principal, only pertain to the selection of the student rep or is it to the participation of the student rep in the district education authority meetings? Principals don't have any authority at the DEA level. I would like clarification there.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. The honourable Member is correct; it just deals primarily with the matter of selection.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Mahsi. Clause 23. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

I agree.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you very much, Mr. Koe. You got my vote. Clause 24. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

Here, the student has been selected by the principal or under rules selected by the principal. I assume that the student's peers would select the representative but under the rules made by the principal, and then the student can now attend public meetings of the district authority. Again, I raise the same question, what about attending, as a student rep, divisional education council meetings?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I don't believe there is anything in the present legislation that allows for it but nothing precludes it, either. This is primarily to ensure that we have student representation in determining matters that are local and that affect them directly in their schools. How the divisional education council deals with student participation is certainly a matter for them to decide. We wanted to ensure that students were participating in their particular community in their school.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. Clause 24, I believe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 25. Yes, Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1427

Fred Koe Inuvik

I would just like to make a few comments on this section, parents' participation. It pertains to both clauses 25 and 26. There have already been many changes to these sections dealing with parents' participation, and I would like to make a few more comments on this issue.

I believe that today many parents have abrogated their responsibilities for their children; that is, it seems that many parents just don't care. They don't care about what happens to their children once their children leave home. I believe they feel that school is like a babysitting establishment and once a child is there it is up to the teachers and the principals to look after that child.

This shouldn't be the case. I believe parents have to care and they have to get involved in the education of their children. Many years ago, there used to be home and school associations which were quite active in the running and the activities in the schools, and these have eventually changed to community education councils, now to be known as district education authorities. Today, there are very rarely elections held for education councils. Most members are acclaimed or they get appointed to fill the vacancies. In this act, a lot of authority and responsibility will be given to the education authorities.

Therefore, it is in the interests of parents to get involved in the governance of our education system. Parents can no longer sit back and complain. To make changes or guide the process of education, you must get involved.

I would also like to comment about the responsibilities of parents to get involved in school activities by volunteering. This is not in the act, but I believe it should be mentioned. I know that many times school activities have been cancelled because they don't have enough supervisors or chaperones. Mr. Chairman, parents have to get more involved in their children's activities, many of which happen through the school. By volunteering for school activities, chaperoning dances, trips, sporting events, outings and the various clubs in the schools, they get to appreciate the qualities of their children, of the teachers and of the whole education system. Another area which should be mentioned was raised by the Yellowknife Education District No. 1 in their presentation to the committee; that is, we have rights as parents to participate, and sections 25 and 26 outline those, but we don't have any clauses that outline the consequences if they do not respond to what's in the act. I'll quote from Yellowknife Education District No. 1, " Educators must have the right and opportunity to appeal parental actions if they feel that they are not in the best educational interests of the child. The rights and responsibilities must be equal and reciprocal."

So, Mr. Chairman, these are some of the comments I wish to make respecting the roles and responsibilities of parents. Mahsi.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you very much, Mr. Koe. Clause 25. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some difficulty in the wording of section 25(1). It says that: " A parent of a student is entitled, and has the responsibility, to be informed of the progress, behaviour and attendance of a the student and to be involved in making decisions that significantly affect the education, health or safety of the student." I agree with that concept, but I think that the parents have to be involved in the progress of the student. That opportunity should be available to the parents, to be involved in whichever way they can be in the whole process. The wording, "has the responsibility, to be informed", I think, is the other way around. I think it's the responsibility of the educational institution to make sure that the parent is entitled to the student's progress in the educational system, rather than saying it's up to the parent. I don't really know what the wording here means, but it should be stronger than that.

I see an educational system as a holistic approach, and it shouldn't be separate from the everyday life of a whole family. The family has to be involved in the educational process. This section allows that to happen, but I think the wording should be a little more clear than what it is. I would like to ask the Minister if he understands what I am talking about and if there is any way to strengthen that section? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Actually, we thought, Mr. Chairman, that section 25 and 26 really incorporated exactly what the honourable Member has mentioned, because the present, existing bill really had nothing to do with, or nothing to say about parents' participation. So that was our intention. We thought from our review through the standing committee that we added a few clauses that actually incorporated and responded to that. So the comments of the honourable Member are actually incorporated in both clauses. There is a component that I think Mr. Koe mentioned that you can't always rely on the system itself to be responsible for your child. At some time, as a parent, you have a responsibility to be part of the process.

What this section also does is it not only ensures responsibility, but it also indicates that parents are entitled to be part of the process now. Historically, they have not been involved in the process, and what we are saying here is that they are entitled to be part of it, but part of that entitlement also includes a responsibility to participate.

The other thing is, there were additional educational health and safety matters because previously, in the Education Act, one only focused on educational programming and I think the standing committee said there is the issue of health and safety for a student who is attending school and there are concerns that, as educators, we might not be aware of, in the home or in the community that could be causing problems. We wanted to include all those components, certainly in response to the comments the honourable Member has made.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 25. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make the further comment that I think this section is good in the act. As the Minister said, in the past, parents weren't really involved. I'm thinking way back, looking back on my education, when my father, who speaks only Dene, was never involved in the education process. The language, alone, did not allow him to be involved in the education of myself and the rest of my family, and I think that's the case with a lot of people here from my generation. But now it's different.

I think a lot of parents today are beginning to get involved in the education of their children more. They have to be assured that the Education Act allows them to be involved in the education of students. My point earlier was that this section allows that to happen, but the wording is kind of vague. So, I would like to make sure that the wording is clear, that the parents do get involved in the education of their children in this new act. Thank you.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister. Agreed? Clause 25. Mr. Zoe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess it's just a matter of reading section 25 the way it's written. If it reads something like this, it might help Members understand it better:

A parent of a student is entitled and has the responsibility to be involved in making decisions that significantly affect the education, health or safety of the students, and to be informed of the progress, behaviour, and attendance of the student.

Then it flows in that order. First of all, you are entitled to it, then it's your responsibility. First of all, you're involved with the education, health and safety of the students and then, you're to be informed about their progress, attendance and so forth. I think if it flows in that manner, then it reads better. It still says the same thing, but it reads better if we switch those sentences around. Thank you. component that I think Mr. Koe mentioned that you can't

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe that was a point you wanted to make. Or did you want to make a motion? Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1428

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

If I could, there is just one matter I think we should be clear about. If a parent is to be involved, they have to be informed, so a parent has to be informed first,

before they're actually involved in the decisions. That's why it was put in the context it was.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, are you done? Mr. Minister, you have the floor.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, it does all the things that the honourable Member mentioned. We were just trying to...

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

If my colleagues are happy with the way it is written ...It basically means the same thing, but if we were to put it in the other way, it would have read a little bit better and would have been easier to understand. It was just a point I was making.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 25.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Some Hon. Members

Agreed,

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We move on to clause 26 of Bill 25.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 27. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For clarification on clause 27.(3)(c), it reads: " of the parent, is excused by the principal..." If the principal has not agreed to excuse the student, how is it confirmed in the act that the student is then considered absent? The way it reads, it doesn't seem to be very clear. Could you maybe just give us some clarity as to what exactly is supposed to be happening here? What happens if the principal does not agree to the absence?

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Sorry, I got distracted by my clerk. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Based on the information here, the student would be considered absent if they weren't excused. But I'll ask Ms. Whitehouse to help me out in clarifying this particular matter.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under this paragraph, the principal may excuse the student from attending for such period as the principal may direct, and there are examples of the kinds of things the principal may excuse a student from attending school for. If the principal does not excuse the student, then the student is considered to be absent. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 27. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. I agree with the intent of the act that it should be definitive in the actions that one should take, but if the act is to be more permissive and open in dealing with students, I believe the presentation made by the Status of Women made a good point. We always seem to discipline someone after the damage has been done, after they have been away for a long time, for example, and we don't do any preventative work upfront. The Status of Women, in their presentation to the Standing Committee on Legislation, said there should be an obligation for the school to contact the parent or student when there is prolonged absence or poor attendance.

Another area of concern was the lack of counselling support for students. They said, "contact and follow-up is often not made until the student is experiencing major difficulties with attendance and/or behaviour. There is nothing in the bill to define the role of a counsellor or to require provision of counselling by education bodies." Again, in this act there is a specific section that refers to the principal and I assume by referring to the principal, we refer to him or his subordinates. It's just a point that I thought was worthwhile raising; the Status of Women raised it. The Status of Women raised it and it's worthy of comment. I'm not sure ... Maybe it's already in here or maybe there's something we can add to strengthen this section. Thank you.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister, did you want to make a comment on Mr. Koe's comments? Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to advise that the district education authority or the divisional education council can set out the appropriate guidelines and the basis by which these elements can be applied as well. It's not simply a matter of the principal just doing it on their own. You've got to read again how these elements fit. The district educational authority can, in fact, develop the appropriate guidelines, the appropriate internal policies that will respond to this whole matter of the excuses in the agreements.

The other component that's part of this, which historically has probably never been part of it, is the agreement of parents being part of the process, as well.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 27. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Fred Koe Inuvik

I raise that because in clause 28, again, there's a very definite clause there in terms of anybody who doesn't comply with 27.(2) is guilty of an offence. I think I'll make some comments when we get to that one, but there are definite responsibilities and I think the comments made about preventative work warrant some consideration. I know we're limited again by budgets and the amount of staff that we can have doing this type of work but I think it has to be considered when dealing with the act. Thank you.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1429

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under section 27, with regard to attendance, (3)(b), (c), and also (4), is with regard to being excused by the principal for students to participate in traditional activities on the land and other learning experiences

and also to participate in a spiritual or religious observance recognized by an authority or teachings to which the student adheres; but, mainly to be excused as the principal may direct in order to allow the students to participate in traditional activities on the land.

I take offence to the word "excused," Mr. Chairman, because it's like we're leaving the traditional lifestyles to be subservient to the educational program. As a Dene person, I take offence with that "he may be excuse& type of thing. Maybe traditional pursuits on the land have to be recognized in this act here as something that is very substantial. The education program today doesn't teach our young people how to go out on the land. To be excused to do that makes it sound as if it's something that we need permission for.

I would like to tell the Minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, that if they could find another word for it, I would really appreciate it. When a young person goes out on the land, for example, in my area, a lot of the communities go out on the land in the fall, for the fall moose hunt. They all take off and don't go to school for maybe a week or 10 days. They do learn a lot out on the land; they learn how to put food on the table; they learn how to take care of themselves on the land and this is a very valuable experience for a lot of the young people.

In the wintertime, as well, when they go out on the land, it's a good experience, too, and they learn quite a bit about how to survive out there. I know the intent of this section but I just don't like the words "being excused" to do the things that some elders tell us we need to do more of. So if, through you, Mr. Chairman, the Minister could respond to that, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the comments that the honourable Member has made. I just want to say this though, these are actually the exemptions. You have to look at it in the context of exemptions from mandatory attendance. Excused is used in the context of with permission being part of a program other than an educational program. The on-the-land traditional programs could, for that matter, include participation in a community hunt. However, that's an educational component. These are in addition to the educational programming itself. One can't look at it simply in the context of on-the-land programs that are not organized as part of the school programming because that can be done.

These are the exceptions to mandatory attendance. This is what we're trying to get at. By using excused, we're talking about with permission already having been granted. That's the way in which it would read. Let me give you one example: a good conference that some people have attended, Dream Catchers, that's a program that has been outside traditional in terms of educational programming. That is one of those components that we're talking about, a lot of aboriginal people being part of a major conference or, for that matter, a major event that might happen, a spiritual gathering that might occur in the region or in a community, that might be another component.

That's the kind of stuff we're talking about. It wasn't intended to say that there are restrictions but those are components by which those additional approvals can be given. I don't want to make it difficult but that was the interpretation. Those are the exceptions, like I said, to the program. In the programming, we then include the on-the-land cultural component as well.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 27. Mr. Pudlat.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Just a brief question on clause 27.(2). In the school year now, a student will obviously have to come to school on time, but students have different attendance patterns and that's something that will probably be a reality for the rest of time. If a student continues to be tardy, who will enforce the punishment? How many times do you plan on contacting the parents regarding their child's tardiness? How much time would be provided to ensure that this tardiness problem is alleviated and you contact the parents as well as the education bodies? That was my question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The matter is resolved under the school rules and also the guidelines that would be set out by the district authority. As a Minister, I wouldn't want to get involved in those day-to-day issues until it became more a policy issue than the day-to-day responsibilities of the district education authority.

Committee Motion 76-12(7): To Amend Clause 15 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 27. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 27 of Bill 25 be amended by striking out "Within five months after the beginning of the academic year" and by substituting "on or before December 31 of the academic year," in the proposed subsection (1).

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is written and translated into the appropriate language, and it is being distributed as I speak.

I understand everyone has received the written motion. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Question is being called. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, I just received the motion and I hadn't really had a chance to look at it carefully as it was rammed down our throats.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

The Chair John Ningark

Sorry about that, Mr. Antoine. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1430

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

It's all right now. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I would like to ask the Minister why he is making these changes. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To make the date and the requirements for the academic or the school year consistent right throughout the bill.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Some Hon. Members

Question.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Question is being called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Clause 27, as amended. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Fred Koe Inuvik

Just a question on using the word "16 year." Is that consistent with other clauses?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 27, as amended.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

We shall move on to clause 28 of Bill 25. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Fred Koe Inuvik

Thank you. This is a penalty clause, and it says that every person who fails to comply with section 27.(2) is guilty of an offence. Section 27.(2) refers to a parent of a student, so I assume that the parent can be fined. Is that the only person who can be fined under this particular clause?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Fred Koe Inuvik

So the parent can be fined if a student is late, is not punctual, or does not attend regularly or punctually. How many times does a student have to be late before a charge is laid? I'm just curious. You get into that whole issue of process, and who sets the process for conviction.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. On the area of regulation, Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thanks. Part of it is set out in the regulations, as well. You have to read it, Mr. Chairman, I don't want the public to be confused. The charges are laid against the parents. There is no definition right now, without us having to work those issues out with the district education authorities and the divisions.

The other thing is that the prosecution for an offence referred to in subsection (1), no prosecution shall be commenced without the consent in writing of the district education authority. There are limitations to whether we even proceed if the community says no, that's not the way we do this, there's a better approach to take. So the community can make those decisions and they will set the rules by which we enforce this particular section because, in some cases they may be different, in others, there may be a consistent process right across the Northwest Territories. But we will share that information as we develop the regulations with each other.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 28. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Fred Koe Inuvik

There was a concern raised, and it was raised at the last Beaufort/Delta divisional board meeting, about the clause and the offence, then the fine of $500. There was a concern about the permissiveness of the act to persecute people. I hope it's not the intent, because a lot of the people in the communities where this would come into effect ... This may impact a lot of aboriginal people who may not have $500; therefore, may end up being criminals because their son or daughter doesn't attend school regularly.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I don't think we should mislead or misrepresent the clause to the general public. The clause reads, "is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500." There's an upper limit that we're setting for those who can be charged. So the fine is not $500, it's not exceeding that. It could be $10, it could be $500, but that's the way it has to be read.

The other thing is that the conviction doesn't necessarily have to proceed or the prosecution, if the district education authority or the community education authority determines that it's not in the interest of the parent or the student for any charges to be laid, that there's a better way of resolving this issue.

The other thing is that there are boards that have raised that particular matter with us and find that it may not be in their interest to fine individuals, but there is another way. This is basically an indication to parents that there is a penalty for parents who do not ensure that their child goes to school. So that's generally what it says, but there are limitations to the proceedings. It is a last resort.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 28. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1431

Fred Koe Inuvik

I am glad the Minister explained, but the words are there and it is a permissive piece of legislation. As long as the words are there, the $500 stands out. My comments are relaying the concerns I heard from several board members in the Delta region. I am glad it has been clarified. There is considerable onus now on the district education authority to make sure they read section 28.(2) because if they don't, then I presume 28.(1) takes precedence and whoever is a ticket writer is then in charge, if there's such a person. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Antoine, to clause 28 of Bill 25.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In section 28 of this act, with regard to what my colleague is referring to, if a student does not attend school regularly and punctually during the year, the district education authority could start charging the person who fails to comply with section 27.(2). The parent, then, would be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $500. This gives the authority to the district education authority to start fining people. This is another thing that is going to get quite complicated in the community, if this does happen.

I would like to ask the Minister, through you, Mr. Chairman, if this is a new section to the Education Act in the north. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister of Education.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Yes, Mr. Chairman. This is a new section. It was intended as, what you might say, a last resort. It also indicates to the public and the parents how important it is for them to be part of ensuring their children attend school. We have to be aware that, through the support of my colleagues and, certainly the honourable Member, many school counsellors are now doing a lot of the work. What this indicates is there is the ability to lay a charge, but that charge has to be authorized by the community education leadership.

In other words, they cannot lay the fine. They have to agree on the charges before they proceed, so they won't indicate the line. That is left up to the Justice of the Peace or judge. This is a permissive section, but it cannot be enacted unless the community education leadership approves it. As my honourable colleague will recall from our past lives as leaders of the aboriginal community and his term as chief, the communities want to have a greater say in making those determinations first, before charges are laid in any instance. The other thing is, we would recognize the circumstances of the family before we press charges. So, this is trying to give them the authority, plus allowing them the ability to lay a charge, if that's what they thought was in the interest of the charge. That's how we put it in.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 28. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. So this new clause is going to leave it up to the district education authority to start these convictions. My concern is how it's going to work. Do we have to wait until the regulations are developed until this is put into play? Are we looking at another year? We'll be agreeing to something without knowing how it will work, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The honourable Member is correct about the fact that we need to develop the regulations. This is, generally, the framework. What we have consented to do, Mr. Chairman, is to consult with the communities and divisional educational councils on the matter, before we actually implement the process, because they have to be satisfied --at least the communities --that the process is reflective of their concerns and that they know how to participate in it. There's no need for us to lay out the parameters for this prosecution without the communities knowing what should happen. It's our intent to allow it to be permissive. The legislation will come into effect on July 1, 1996 and we will work to resolve these issues. They will also come back to Members of the Assembly, I believe, once those discussions take place.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 28. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With this clause and the previous one, we're fining people for not registering their children in school or for not attending school. In effect, what this bill does is give authority to district education authorities to force parents to send their children to school and force students to stay in school, whether they like it or not.

My other concern is, what if the people don't like the school, the teachers in the school, the programs, or if there are problems in that area? What is there to counter the problems I just laid out? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The honourable Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1432

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Education Act, as proposed, allows the student and the parents to work out an arrangement where students can receive educational programs that respond to their needs. If there are problems in schools, the Education Act, as proposed, allows the parents to come to agreement with the schools, whether the programs will be delivered through home schooling or through correspondence. Whatever options are available, those can be done. It can be done to the extent that part of the programming can be delivered at school and part at home. That's really up to the parents, the students, and the district education authority. These things can be worked out under the proposed legislation.

The other thing that is important, though, is that this particular section deals with the matter that most of the Members have argued, and that is: we cannot allow students not to be required to go to school, even to the extent of laying out an educational program to respond to them. This can't be done without us knowing who the students are, or even who those with special needs are, unless we know the program requirements. That's what we're trying to address here.

The other thing is, this is permissive and, hopefully, the local education authority to which we are now giving this power, will put in place the necessary regulations so they respond to the people they're serving, and not the department coming in and enforcing regulations or authorities or dictating the terms of their participation in the school. So we don't want to do that any more. We want the communities to determine that, and my colleague knows, again, of all the arguments that our aboriginal communities have argued on in this area, that they want to say what the rules are and we are trying to be supportive of that.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 28. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's say, for example, that it the district education authority goes ahead and implements this section and starts fining parents whose children miss school or are not punctual or late, they could get fined up to $500 each. Is there an appeal mechanism in this thing where they could deal with it, or do we have to wait for the regulations to deal with that? Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just so we are clear, the district education authority cannot fine a student. They can only lay the charge. The courts themselves would determine whether or not there is a legitimate reason to fine or the extent of the penalty. For that matter, it may not be a fine. The court process will then be used as the basis for the appeal. But they cannot fine an individual; they can only lay the charge and the penalty can then be determined by the courts.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, we are on clause 28. Anybody else? Mr. Antoine, do you still have something to say? Mr. Koe? Is that it for clause 28, then? Agreed?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 29.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 30.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 31. Sorry, I missed somebody. Clause 30. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, could I ask the consent of the committee to go back to clause 29?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

The Member would like to go back to 29. Is that okay?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, we are on 29, then. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

MRS, MARIE-JEWELL: Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to make a couple of comments with respect to this clause.

The wording in it is pretty specific. Clause 29(2) indicates, "a student record shall include information that affects decisions made about the education of a student that is collected or maintained by the school or an education body and a record of those decisions and any other prescribed information."

First of all, they maintain student records for each student that is registered at any school. Now, I am concerned, and it didn't seem to be clear during the meeting with the Minister, that if information is obtained --for example, if your child requires psychological assessment or if you, as a parent, decide to take your child out for psychological assessment --and you do not want these records to be for school use but only for parental use, can the school, under this particular clause, have access to those types of records, because of the fact that it could have some effect either on the child's behaviour or determine the child's progress in the school or whatever? I just want to know if a principal somewhat demanded those types of records from a parent, either going through the medical centre or going through the parent, is there an obligation on behalf of the parent to provide those for the student records for school purposes? Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can advise the honourable Member, having discussed this particular matter with legal counsel, that information would not be a matter that could be required, requested or obligated to be part of the information. In other words, that is a private matter. The parent may choose to provide the information but if they do not, there is no requirement that information be available to the school for placement on a student record, because that includes the whole matter of medical information. Records and information are protected by other pieces of legislation and they are not matters that could be included, unless again there are medical circumstances that a parent wishes to provide to the school. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I just wanted that clarification for the record to ensure that this clause is, in fact, interpreted in that manner. I don't want to have irate parents, who may want to take the responsibility personally to get their child assessed, feel in any way intimidated by the school system to have to produce those records for their child's records with regard to determining progress of a child or whatever. So I felt it was fairly important to get that clarification with respect to that particular clause. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. You don't have anything else on clause 29? Okay. Can we conclude clause 29 then?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 30. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1433

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a concern about section 30, subsection (4), which says that, "a member of a school staff may disclose information in the student records

where, in the opinion of the staff member, disclosing the information is in the best interest of the student." Mr. Chairman, this section has also been highlighted by AIDS Yellowknife as perhaps not being consistent with the requirement for confidentiality that might be expected. I guess the real question is, instead of saying under subsection (5), 'the professional must disclose to the student and the student's parents that they made the disclosure", why would we not say that they must seek the consent of the student or the student's parents in advance of the disclosure, which, as I understand it, would have to take place currently.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

This is the exception to the other components, section 30(1), (2) and (3). This is the exception where you deal with things like potential abuse, sexual or physical, where the parents may not wish to provide that information, and there may be other personal information that the parents may not want to expose but that the student might want. The other thing is that the teacher, as a result of discussions with the student, may have information that the parent would not want to disclose.

So that was the intention of the exception here to the other information above, those circumstances where I'm not certain if a parent would deal with or want to disclose, particularly where it says, "in the best interest of a student".

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can certainly appreciate the reasoning behind those arguments. My concern is still with the wording here, "in the opinion of the staff member." Somebody who has HIV or AIDS won't get much comfort from this section the way it's written right now. I guess what might help would be a clear statement from the Minister that the intention is not to breach confidentiality for illnesses or things of that nature, like HIV or AIDS, but instead to deal with situations of abuse as he has outlined.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are two specific issues: one dealing with information that is necessary to address the best interests of the student and; secondly, that disclosure is necessary for the establishment of support services. So it's very specific about the basis on which that information can be released.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Anybody else on clause 30? Are we concluded clause 30?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 31.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 32.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Student conduct, clause 33.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 34.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 35. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that Yellowknife Education District No. 1 has expressed some concern about the elimination of the superintendent from the suspension process. Their contention is that this merely eliminates another possible avenue which is currently often used to resolve student difficulties before the student is removed from the school. I'm just wondering if the Minister has considered this, and I know that I've suggested to the Minister that we consider amending the bill to put the superintendent back in. I'm just wondering if the Minister would concur with that kind of amendment.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

We may already have it in here, so just give us a second to check a couple of other clauses that may respond to the concern of the honourable Member. Maybe it I could have Ms. Joyce, respond. I believe it's under clause 36.(b)(i).

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Maybe we could get the witness just to confirm that, then we'll return to 35. Ms. Joyce.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Joyce

Mr. Chairman, we did recognize the superintendent --as the Minister is noting --specifically under the expulsion clause, under 36.(1), as the Yellowknife school district requested, because that is actually the practice.

Also under 35.(4) where it states that if a student is suspended for more than five consecutive days, the district education authority or the principal shall designate a person to contact the student. That person could indeed be the superintendent.

The superintendent is also identified under paragraph (5), stating the "...superintendent of the suspension and the reasons for the suspension." Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1434

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

To be perfectly clear, are we hearing that the concerns that would be addressed by the amendment that I was proposing to bring the superintendent back in is not necessary because the superintendent is already recognized in there? Could I just get a really clear answer so I can point

to it when Yellowknife Education District No. 1 asks me whether or not that concern has been dealt with?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. If I could ask Ms. Joyce to respond, please.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Ms. Joyce.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Joyce

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we have the superintendent identified wherever we can in a consistent manner, but we can't have the superintendent identified as the specific designate for suspension because in all districts; for example, in a division, the superintendent may not be available, each district doesn't have a superintendent like Yellowknife does, but we've written the clauses in such a manner that it can be applied in Yellowknife if the superintendent is that designated person.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Ms. Joyce. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hearing it that clearly in the House, we now have some assurances for the local school boards that they can follow through with their current practice, which is what they wanted. I think that will deal with the concern and allow some certainty to the boards.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Are we finished with clause 33?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 34.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 35. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

I wanted to speak to clause 34, you didn't see my hand.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Okay, Mrs. Marie-Jewell, clause 34 is fine.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I just have some problem with regard to clause 34 and I'm trying to get clarification on it. This particular clause indicates that a discipline policy be developed in accordance with the direction of the Minister and the divisional education council. However, to ensure that they promote a positive learning environment and governing the breach by students of the school rules and the code of conduct for students or the responsibilities of a student under this act or the regulations, I am somewhat concerned that the development of this particular discipline policy does not include the parent advisory councils wherever they're in existence and does not include a representative from the student body. You can say that it does include the principal, but not necessarily so in the event they're participants of the divisional education council, because the principals are generally participants of the local education council or the community education council, not the divisional education council. Therefore, there's a fairly significant consultation process where individuals are affected who are not in the process of developing such a policy.

I'm wondering, if the Minister agrees with this, what ways can this be addressed in order to ... Besides amending the clause, what ways can this be addressed to reflect the need for that particular participation from those areas? Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Under 117.(1)(d), there's a section that says, "consider any comments and recommendations, with regard to a school, that are provided by the students, student representatives, parents and school staff who have an interest in that school.` In other words, the education body shall do that.

This is a component of a discipline policy that affects those and they must consult under another section in the legislation. We are also going to propose a change in the legislation where we have parent advisory committees considered and recognized as well. That will come in a later amendment.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, I understand what the Minister is saying, but we are not at that clause yet. It does say that you can consider any type of comments or recommendations of the school. It says an education body shall consider this. However, this particular clause says that in the development of a discipline policy, it will be made, in accordance with the direction of the Minister and the divisional education council. The divisional education council will be a different body from the community education council, whether it is the parent advisory committee, the student body or the principal participating. I am saying the discipline policy reflects a decision coming downward and on the advice, they may consider it. There is nothing that reflects what the community wants in the discipline policy. We are devolving a lot to the divisional boards and we want the authority to lie at the community levels. To be able to state that we are going to develop a discipline policy at the divisional level without consultation from the community level, contradicts what we are trying to do.

I would like to ask our legal counsel how we can address this to reflect the participation of those particular bodies in developing the discipline policy. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Minister, I wonder if you could respond. There may be some policy that is the underpinning for this clause.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1435

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A matter of the discipline policy also emanates from the matter of the school rules, which is (2) at the bottom. You have to tie those into the same clause because school rules also deal with things like codes of conduct, responsibilities of students, at cetera. From that emanates the discipline policy within the school and possibly within the division.

The other point that should be noted is the duties of 117 may be given to DEAs and DECs as well. The fact is that the district education authority may end up with the responsibility of defining the discipline policy within their own schools and then developing a broader policy for the division.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

(Microphone turned off) ...to that issue you raised? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Possibly one way to address this ...I recognize what the Minister is saying; however, this is the way the clause reads. If a district education authority, which is at the local level, develops a discipline policy and if they develop it on the advice of the Minister and the divisional education council, for example, the interpretation of a code of conduct can be defined one way by the divisional education council and yet it could have another interpretation from the district education authority. That is what I am trying to say. They could have different interpretations on student conduct.

Possibly, one way to address this to ensure that the two coincide, are consistent and reflect consultation from the parent advisory committees or the student body. The Minister may want to consider, in the development of his regulations, allowing the district education authority to, in conjunction with the parent advisory council and the student body, assist in developing this discipline policy.

The other possibility may be a ministerial directive indicating the necessity for participation from the parent advisory council and the student body. I would like to ask the Minister's viewpoint on this. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Having heard the comments of the honourable Member, as Minister, I can develop a directive that clearly indicates the matter of consultation, the mandate and the involvement of parents and students. We can do this quickly as part of the process, so we don't necessarily need a change here, but we can deal with that in a directive from the Minister to all boards.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

That is clear. Are we finished with clause 34?

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 35.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 36.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 37.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 38.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 39.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 40.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 41.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 42.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 43.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Clause 44.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

The Chair Brian Lewis

Mrs. Marie-Jewell, clause 44.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1436

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On clause 44, I did want to indicate to the Minister that there were some concerns expressed about our TEP program. They indicated that they would like to see teachers have a bachelor of education degree. Currently, teachers holds teaching certificates issued under the regulations that have gone through TEP. I have indicated some concerns with respect to that. In the event that you require a bachelor's degree, you would have to uproot your family to go and get the degree, as opposed to a certificate.

I am also advised that TEP is expanding their program in order to give another year towards their degree. Can the Minister clarify the process for a TEP student in acquiring a TEP certificate issued under the regulations currently, as opposed to the necessity of a bachelor of education degree. I am sure the Minister would like to see every TEP student have a degree? Unfortunately, it is difficult for some students to acquire that, yet they are excellent teachers in the school system. If I could hear the Minister's viewpoints, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Clause 44, Mr. Nerysoo.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can advise the honourable Member that the basis on which the certification occurs is, after two years of education, as the honourable Member has pointed out, we now provide an interim certificate. That interim certificate allows a student to teach from kindergarten to grade 9. A bachelor's degree is required for the teaching of grades 10 to 12.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Nerysoo. Clause 44. Mrs. Marie-Jewell, have you completed your comments on clause 44? Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to propose an amendment under 44.(3)(b).

I move that clause 44.(3)(b)(i) read, "For greater certainty, a person who is not certified to teach or to act as a classroom assistant may be employed to teach or to assist in the teaching of an official language other than English or French if that person has special skills, knowledge or abilities in that official language." Thank you.

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair Brian Lewis

This is a motion to amend clause 44.(3), so we have to have a translated copy of this motion. Do you have it, Mrs. Marie-Jewell? This has to be translated, so I'm afraid we'll have to take a break while this is being done. Members may want to stretch their legs for a few minutes. We'll take a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Committee Motion 77-12(7): To Amend Clause 27 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair John Ningark

Before we took the time-out, there was a motion on the floor, and I would like the mover of the motion to read the motion into the record. It has been written and translated. Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

If I may, Mr. Chairman, I move that clause 44 of Bill 25 be amended by adding the following after proposed subsection (3):

"(3.1) For greater certainty, a person who is not certified to teach or to act as a classroom assistant may be employed to teach or to assist in the teaching of an Official Language, other than English or French, if that person has special skills, knowledge or abilities in that Official Language."

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair John Ningark

I guess you have to read the whole motion, Member for Thebacha.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you. If I may continue:

"(3.2) For greater certainty, a person who is not certified to teach or to act as a classroom assistant may be employed to teach or to assist in the teaching of cultural subjects, including but not limited to land skills, art, crafts, local customs, local spirituality or other subjects of local cultural significance, if that person has special skills, knowledge or abilities in the cultural subject in question." Thank you.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I guess I got overly enthusiastic. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Minister. Member for Thebacha, to the motion.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Mr. Chairman, thank you. This motion would allow people in the community who have special language skills and knowledge to be employed and to pass those skills along, despite the fact that they may not have any formal teaching education or credentials.

Elders have significant knowledge, which is otherwise unavailable to the school. However, this is not to be designated only for elders. I recognize that there is a section in the clause that allows elders to teach. However, in my riding, for example, the Chipewyan language is a dying language. In the event that you do not have anyone with a formal teaching degree but someone who has enough knowledge of the Chipewyan language to be able to teach a class, this would allow them to fit within this category in this clause, without having to be an elder. Thank you.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. The honourable Minister of Education.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1437

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

I tried, Mr. Chairman, to explain to some of my colleagues, some of the problems that are inherent every time we introduce an amendment. When you're introducing an amendment or any changes, I think you have to reflect on the positive things that have already happened. I've looked at the amendment and I want to advise the honourable Members that right now, we have in existence a certification program for aboriginal language specialist teachers. In fact, Mr. Chairman, some of the individuals involved in the teacher education program are involved in this area of speciality. The other point is, approximately 25 per cent of teachers are aboriginal teachers and, right now, about 180 aboriginal students are enrolled in training and it is our expectation that by the year 2000, we will have 50 per cent aboriginal teachers.

Mr. Chairman, this is not a reflection of the fact that already, in some regions, over 50 per cent of our teachers are of aboriginal descent. In many ways, there is a suggestion that, somehow, we shouldn't consider these skills. The other thing that we have to understand is future sections to this legislation. District authorities and divisional councils can now employ individuals to provide cultural instruction at their direction. At the direction of the standing committee, we agreed that we needed to recognize and honour elders with honorary certificates. This amendment puts aboriginal official languages into a class separate from English and French, which makes it appear to be a second-class program. The fact is, our official languages legislation is recognized in this legislation, and the interpretation that is given is that all languages in our official languages legislation are equal, and they must be respected as such. The amendment changes that whole idea. In fact, it does something that many past Members argued against -- including, in fact, some Members who are now sitting in this Assembly --which was the fact that French was being imposed upon in 1984. I remember those arguments very clearly.

One individual by the name of Mr. Patterson was quite vehement about the tact that he could not see how French language programming and services could be considered without considering first aboriginal languages, aboriginal languages being more equal than others. Yet, the fact is, many Members who were here at that time --and there are probably just a few of us left --went on to consider it and, in particular, Charter requirements.

The other point is, we need to have the same quality and standards in all language programs across our system. I think we have to consider that. The other thing is, we do not want and have tried not to set up barriers to aboriginal languages or languages of instruction. We want to encourage them. That is the whole basis on which we tried not to divide aboriginal languages and French and English. Rather, we have tried to treat them all as equal, without one language being less.

I recognize the intent Well, I shouldn't say I recognize; I don't recognize the intent of the amendment. It, in fact, puts into place the idea --maybe not intentionally --that aboriginal languages are of lesser status than English and French. I recall this argument quite clearly in 1984 and I recalled it after. That is my reading of what the amendment would do. It was our intention, through the legislation that was proposed, to try to ensure the quality of all of those languages. The other thing is, right now, it is our intention to ensure the certification of all teachers, rather than saying we will divide people into categories of teachers. In that sense, we're concerned about the amendment and I would have to say that at this particular juncture, I couldn't support it.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1438

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1438

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's not my intention to indicate that any aboriginal language is of lesser importance than English or French, but the reality is that in the school system, it is. I don't see this government and the Department of Education taking any steps to enhance official languages and the aboriginal languages.

For example, in my community, we've had a difficult time getting a Cree teacher, let alone the department going out and making sure other classes were stopped until they could obtain a Cree teacher. There was no such effort like that. Things went on as they were and, as a result, this past year there hasn't been a Cree teacher available, probably because of the criteria requested by the department.

What I am asking in this motion is that if the department wants to make a sincere effort to address aboriginal languages as official languages in the school system, then teachers shouldn't have to be certified if they have the knowledge available, particularly if they are not elders. There are a lot of dynamic individuals who can teach aboriginal languages in schools, but unfortunately, do not have the proper certification. These are the type of people who we are trying to capture.

So I don't think the Minister should indicate that you are making this less than the languages of English and French. If that's the way he feels, then that's how his department is addressing it, because it certainly hasn't been enhanced. Thank you.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1438

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1438

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chairman, I have read the motion, and I am articulating exactly what the interpretation would mean. We may have different views about this, but the fact is, if you read it in the context that is proposed, in terms of the initiatives that have been articulated, then that is exactly what happens, because we have tried to get away --and a big debate has occurred for a number years --from separating the certification of our teachers into categories. We wanted to articulate quite clearly that our aboriginal teachers are teachers. They are not aboriginal language specialists, per se. There is recognition for that but those people are clearly as teachers.

The other component is that we have done a number of things, and I guess the issue is if you want to debate those issues, then there's another forum to do it. I want to advise that if you read sections 117 and 118.(1)(k) particularly, it says: "in addition to the school program, develop and deliver early childhood development, adult education, cultural, religious or other programs to enhance learning and hire and employ persons for the programs and charge fees for the programs;". So what you are trying to accomplish here, where you say that you want to be able to hire those other individuals who do not have certificates, we allow for that to happen under section 118. So it's already being considered there. So that's what, I guess, I wanted you to be aware of; that we are already trying to do that in other sections in the legislation.

Again, on the matter of initiatives, all one has to do is look at the teacher training. You have to look at Dene Kede and look at Innugatigiit. These are only two of the types of initiatives that we are undertaking and the amount of efforts that are being made.

The other thing is that there are technical difficulties with clause 44, as proposed. "For greater certainty" is an inappropriate term used to clarify a definition or a statement. "Classroom assistant' is a position that does not exist in the new scheme. In other words, what we are saying is that those individuals are teachers now. They don't exist. They are considered as teachers and will be recognized as teachers.

There is no definition, for instance, for "special skills, knowledge or abilities". Who will judge the qualifications? That's the whole issue, as Mr. Koe earlier argued quite vehemently, about making sure that there are standards and criteria for our educators, making sure that we have quality educators. Here, in the same instance, we are saying that there be a different judgment about the quality of individuals who we are recruiting. I don't think that the aboriginal community or any of the leaders would agree that would be the basis on which we hire people in the schools. It should be based on some criteria and qualifications.

So I look at it in that context, and I have to say that, still, it causes me some concern, and maybe what we need to do is have a look quickly at the other components in the act. But purely on the matter of the amendment, as proposed, I would have to indicate opposition to it in the context that it's being proposed now. So that's what makes it so difficult, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Member for Thebacha, then I have Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to ask legal counsel for clarification. The Minister indicated it's not proper language. As Members, we don't run to legal counsel every time we want to change a clause in a bill or we want to propose an amendment. That's what we have the resources here for. So, the ordinary Members are at a disadvantage when we compare the resources the Minister has. I don't appreciate the remarks, that this isn't the proper language. It still gets my intent and my purpose across in proposing this clause.

I would like to ask, Mr. Chairman, if we can ask legal counsel what the legal wording would be to reflect the intent of this clause? Thank you.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The legal counsel, Ms. MacPherson.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Law Clerk Ms. Macpherson

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I were drafting this motion, I would not have used the words "greater certainty" but I would have tried to link the intent of this motion to a person hired for local programs, or I would have said, notwithstanding section 44.(1) --which is the prohibitive section --a person may be employed, at cetera, et cetera. Obviously, given that this act does not include classroom assistants, there would have to be some rewording with that language. Basically, you would say that a person who is not certified to teach may be employed to teach an official language. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 78-12(7): To Amend Clause 44 Of Bill 25
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There is a motion to defer consideration of clause 44.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Clause 44 is deferred. Motion is carried.

---Carried

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Clause 45. Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Fred Koe Inuvik

Under clause 45, 45.(1)(b), the words "diligently teach students"; what does that mean?

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

As in "diligently working in the House." May I ask Carol Whitehouse to please respond.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Ms. Whitehouse.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Whitehouse

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The word "diligent" would carry its normal dictionary meaning. I, unfortunately, don't have a dictionary in front of me, but to diligently pursue something is to be committed and persistent, and to do something to the best of their ability. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Koe, to clause 45.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Fred Koe Inuvik

I just wonder why such a word would be used in an act. How do you measure if someone diligently teaches? It just seems to be a strange word to use in an act that's defining roles and responsibilities of an individual.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Clause 45. Any further comments? Mr. Koe.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Fred Koe Inuvik

Referring to the same clause, the teacher has to diligently teach emotional development and diligently teach spiritual development. I'm just talking out loud because I'm just wondering how one can do that, and how can one measure that? That's my point.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the issue is when you leave out words, then obviously you get an different interpretation, but the issue is promote their physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual development.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To clause 45 of Bill 25. Do we agree?

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I think we've agreed on that clause, but I would like to move that we report progress.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1439

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I didn't rule that clause 45 was agreed to, but the motion to report progress is not debatable. Do we have a quorum? I shall ring the bells.

Thank you, Mr. Minister and witnesses, on behalf of the committee. There is a motion on the floor to report progress that's not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried I will rise and report progress.

Committee Motion 79-12(7): To Defer Consideration Of Clause 44 Of Bill 25, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1440

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

The House will come back to order. Item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Ningark.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1440

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Bill 25 and would like to report progress with six motions being adopted, and, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1440

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you. Seconder, Mr. Koe. To the motion. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1440

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meetings for tomorrow at 9:00 am of Caucus; at 10:30 am of the Ordinary Members' Caucus; and, 12:00 noon of the Chairs' Liaison Committee.

Orders of the day for Tuesday, June 20, 1995:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motions for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Committee Report 11-12(7), Report on the Review of Bill 25 -The Education Act

- Bill 25, Education Act

- Bill 34, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 1, 1995-96

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 1440

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Tuesday, June 20, 1995, at 1:30 pm.

---ADJOURNMENT