This is page numbers 1135 - 1164 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was report.

Topics

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Mr. Pollard.

Bill 33: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 3
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John Pollard Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, June 8, 1995, I shall move that Bill 33, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 3, be read for the first time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bill 33: An Act To Amend The Legislative Assembly And Executive Council Act, No. 3
Item 15: Notices Of Motions For First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Pollard. Your motion is in order. To the motion. Sorry. Item 15, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Committee Report 5-12(7), Report on the Review of Rewriting the Liquor Laws of the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper; Committee Report 9-12(6), Investing In Our Future, October 1994; Committee Report 10-12(6), Report on the Review of the 1995-96 Capital Estimates, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Good afternoon. The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to recommend the committee consider, in the following order: Committee Report 5-12(7); Committee Report 9-12(7); and then perhaps Committee Report 10-12(7).

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The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee agrees. Committee Report 5-12(7), the Report on the Review of Rewriting the Liquor laws of the Northwest Territories: A Legislative Action Paper.

Members have received copies of the report. Are there any general comments on the report? The chair recognizes the Member for Thebacha, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

General Comments

Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a fair number of comments with respect to the report in itself.

After looking at the liquor law review and the rewriting of the liquor laws and with respect to addressing the Standing Committee on Legislation, even though I wasn't an active Member when they were reviewing this, I believe it is necessary to make remarks about some of the comments I heard in my community when the public meetings were held.

I feel, in looking at the report the Standing Committee on Legislation has developed, it is quite brief, given the amount of effort that was put into the review and the amount of participation by people from all across the Northwest Territories. I find the report fails to include many of the important points raised during the consultation. So I will have some comments with regard to these omissions when we make concluding remarks.

Mr. Chairman, I certainly have been fortunate and been able to talk to many different people with respect to having the assistance of many different people and making comments on this report. I have met with the band council and different individuals in my community on the report itself and the follow-up of the rewriting of the liquor laws that was developed by the department.

I have also had a lot of assistance from Nancy Peel, who was previously the chairperson of the Alcohol and Drug Board of Management regarding what areas need to be addressed. This report, in itself, appears to criticize the department for not endorsing a specific plan. I find that the department, to develop a specific plan for a new bill without getting input from the standing committee and from Members of the House, would not be able to fairly present the comments that people had expressed across the Northwest Territories. I think that the plan, as we give direction to the government, should come from the Members. I believe that this would allow the government to develop what they would like to see and we would be able to give them direction as to what we would like to see them develop. They would then be able to implement it.

If the government went along and developed the legislative action paper, deciding to raise the drinking age and imposing either new fines for bootlegging or opening more liquor stores like they're doing in the south. I think then, and rightly so, Members would probably say they weren't consulted.

I feel, out of respect to the committee system, the action paper should have been framed in this particular manner. But, as I said, I don't believe this report has done an in-depth overview of community consultation and community remarks.

With respect to some of the specifics, Mr. Chairman, I want to indicate that one particular area, besides bootlegging, that I felt I heard a lot of comments about was the drinking age. There was another area where I felt the committee report was particularly inaccurate. If I go to page 4 of 7, in section E, it states that, "Although talked about extensively in all the regions, raising the legal drinking age was not supported by the witnesses who appeared before the standing committee." As I said, I didn't participate in the public meetings; however, I do know that the support for raising the drinking age -- especially by our chief and the community members who went to the public meeting in Fort Smith -- was given.

Although it states, "the concept of raising the drinking age was not supported by witnesses who appeared before the standing committee," in reviewing the public meeting reports which I requested, I don't think that comment is accurate. I believe that several witnesses did support an increase in the drinking age. I know several of the students who came in from Fort Smith to attend the committee's public hearings in Yellowknife -- Arctic College students taking the alcohol and drug program -- certainly commented on the idea of raising the drinking age.

I know many leaders from across the Northwest Territories -- and I recall reading something about the chief from Jean Marie River -- stated that the drinking age should be raised. I also recall that a professor from the University of Western Ontario, Professor Robert Solomon, who is probably one of the leading experts with regard to liquor legislation, made a comment about raising the drinking age.

If I recall correctly from my notes, Mr. Chairman, the committee was also informed that the Dene Nation went so far as to pass a resolution at it's meeting last summer which supported increasing the drinking age. So, I think there is discussion from the public about raising the drinking age from 19 to 21.

I know, Mr. Chairman, that this is an issue that many people disagree on, just as many people have expressed a concern to us about it. Many people feel the drinking age should remain at 19 years of age. When the representatives of the brewing industry appeared before the standing committee, no doubt they recommended that it not be changed.

I certainly feel strongly that people should have the opportunity to indicate which way they want the government to go. I feel this is the sort of thing that people of the Northwest Territories should decide on. So, therefore, I would certainly like to see a plebiscite question included on the ballot during the upcoming territorial election. That may be one way to address this particular issue.

This question could be straightforward, such as: "Do you support raising the legal drinking age in the Northwest Territories to 21 years or do you support leaving it at 19?". That would mean either a yes or no answer.

I looked this report over three times. I read that there wasn't a consensus on this issue, but I do know that there were concerns expressed in the public meetings in the different parts of the north. Mr. Chairman, I feel that some MLAs probably find it to be a hard decision to make one way or another, and rightly so. I, myself, have different viewpoints on it. I think because it is an issue that really affects a lot of people, the people of the Northwest Territories should decide on it.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I think supporting the concept of a plebiscite certainly would help us determine whether the drinking age should be raised. Knowing how plebiscites go, they are certainly not binding on the new government but, at the same time, a plebiscite has the same status as a formal opinion poll. I think it would be a very effective way of encouraging people of the north to discuss this issue and to send a signal to the new Legislative Assembly about how people in the north feel with respect to the drinking age.

Mr. Chairman, I have many other comments with regard to this. However, at this time, I would like to move a motion with respect to the drinking age.

I would like to move that the committee recommends that a question be developed to determine whether voters in the Northwest Territories want the legal drinking age increased to 21 years; and, further, that this question be included as a plebiscite during the fall 1995 territorial election.

Mr. Chairman, the only thing I forgot to do is get my motion translated and I would like to request that this motion be translated at this time. I would like to continue with my comments once this has been addressed. Thank you.

The Chair John Ningark

Your motion has to be translated and written, so we will take a few minutes to ensure that it is translated, written and distributed to the Members. Thank you.

---SHORT RECESS

The Chair John Ningark

Committee of the whole will resume. For the record, Member for Thebacha, will you please read the motion.

Committee Motion 50-12(7): Territorial Plebiscite On Legal Drinking Age
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 5th, 1995

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Jeannie Marie-Jewell Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move that this committee recommends that the Executive Council develop the form of a question to determine whether voters in the Northwest Territories want the legal drinking age increased to 21 years of age;

And further, that this question should be put to a plebiscite during the fall 1995 territorial election.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

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An Hon. Member

Question.

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The Chair John Ningark

Question has been called. Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have great respect for the opinions of the Member for Thebacha, but I also know that the committee, whose report we are debating, considered this issue at some length and is representative of constituencies from all across the territories. I just want to say that I believe this is a difficult question because like many of the issues that face us as legislators, there are advantages and disadvantages to raising the drinking age.

One of the advantages is that it may prevent some young people from starting drinking when they aren't quite ready to handle that responsibility. It may help reduce some of the problems that we see among some young people who have alcohol problems. I am not unaware of the problems that young people have with alcohol, whether they are 19 or not. However, Mr. Chairman, the other side of it is that if the drinking age is raised, then it becomes the forbidden fruit and there may well be a tendency for people to resort to illegal means to obtain liquor, exposing themselves to getting into legal trouble or they may resort to other non-legal abuses like drugs.

Mr. Chairman, I am sure that my constituency has opinions on both sides. I suspect that elders in my constituency may feel that raising the drinking age might diminish the alcohol problem, but there are probably many younger people in my constituency who feel that since they have the right to vote, the right to join the army and defend their country, they should have some of the privileges that are associated with those rights as well.

So, Mr. Chairman, I don't think this is a simple question. I suppose that is why the Member is suggesting it be put to a territorial vote in conjunction with the forthcoming election. The first question I would like to ask, Mr. Chairman, is -- and maybe the legal advisor or the Clerk could assist -- is there a mechanism to put a question like this on the territorial election ballot if we should approve this motion? I know there is a Plebiscite Act that allows us to have a plebiscite on any question, but those have traditionally been stand-alone plebiscites. I think the last one cost almost $750,000. So I guess before we vote, I would like to ask if someone could enlighten the committee; is there a way to do what Mrs. Marie-Jewell suggests be done; that is, add a question to the ballot in the forthcoming territorial election. So in addition to electing your local MLA, you would be giving an opinion on the drinking age. Is there a way of doing that under the present Election Act? Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Patterson. The question has legal implications. I wonder if the Law Clerk could be brought to the table. Mr. Clerk, did you want to attempt to answer that question?

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

He knows the answer.

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The Chair John Ningark

Mr. Clerk, did you want to attempt to answer that question?

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An Hon. Member

He knows the answer.

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The Chair John Ningark

We need the Law Clerk anyway.

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Chairman, if I understand the question, is there a mechanism to put in on the ballot for the territorial election in the fall of this year, the Plebiscite Act is a separate act, so it would mean that there would possibly be two ballots: one for the territorial election and one administered under a territorial plebiscite. There would be a ballot for the plebiscite question. There would be two separate ballots.

There may be some concern, Mr. Chairman, regarding the residency requirement because the residency requirements are different for the Elections Act than they are for the Plebiscite Act. Those are things that would have to be discussed by the Executive Council.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Patterson.

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Dennis Patterson Iqaluit

Mr. Chairman, the Clerk's answer leads me to believe that it could not be easily done and that, in fact, if we use the Plebiscite Act we'd have to perhaps have two enumerations: one for three-year residents and one for the lesser requirements of the territorial election. I'm not convinced that there's an easy mechanism to do this.

The other point I would like to make is that I'm not sure that it's fair to dump this issue on the Executive Council, they have weighty matters to consider enough. I think this is the kind of issue that should be dealt with in the Assembly. I think we should be prepared to voice our opinions here today. I would like to say, on balance and with no disrespect for the opinion that exists, the drinking age should be increased. On balance, I'm quite confident that the majority of my constituents would not see this as something that would help problems with alcohol in the community.

As the committee has recommended, encouraging people to learn about alcohol, its dangers and encouraging young people to become aware of the risks and the responsibilities associated with drinking, to me, would be more effective. I fear, in fact, that raising the drinking age would just drive the problem underground to a significant extent. I think young people in the north are now aware, as well, that they are part of a country that ... They're widely travelled and they understand that they are part of a great country. We would certainly be, if we moved in this direction, be setting up a category of drinking rights for our young people that is quite different from just across the border, for example, in Alberta, in the Member's own riding. I'm not sure that that kind of variation is going to be helpful nor would it be welcome by young people in the Northwest Territories. I think I know how they'd react if we were to make this move.

Mr. Chairman, on balance, I'm prepared to respect the committee's considered recommendations on this one. It's a difficult question, whatever we do won't please everybody, but I'm inclined to go along with the recommendations of the committee. I know the committee worked hard and heard witnesses from all across the territories. That's the thing, the committee didn't make a recommendation so it's going to stay the way it is. The Member's motion would have this issue put to the people with the recommendation that the voting age increase. I shouldn't call it a committee's recommendation but I'm prepared to go along with the committee's conclusion that raising the drinking age would only create other social problems; that they'll experiment with illegal drugs and non-beverage alcohol and therefore rather than raise the drinking age and rather than put the question of raising the drinking age to the public, we should concentrate our efforts on public education campaigns.

The bottom line is, after some consideration, I am going to vote against the motion. Thank you.

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I believe the honourable Member for Iqaluit was just making a point. I believe the Member for Thebacha had her hand up earlier. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.