This is page numbers 1229 - 1250 of the Hansard for the 12th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was premier.

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Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I want to make a couple of comments. There are, Mr. Speaker, I think, legitimate reasons for the recommended change. I think, speaking from experience, that one of the underlying reasons that most people want to make choices is the whole issue of some certainty of loyalty.

I understand the concern that my honourable colleague for Nahendeh has that the process of reaching consensus is designed to ensure that there is some appreciation and understanding of the positions and the variety of positions that might be taken.

But I also want to remind Members that probably the most powerful political party in the last two decades, until its demise five or six years ago, was the Dene Nation. In terms of the party relationship and the partisan positions that we took on claims, on aboriginal rights and the collective position we held together, we really showed, I think, that we were, in fact, a great political party. The bad part about what has happened, I think, indicates exactly those things. There came a time when all of us or some of us, in fact, didn't take seriously the collective importance and the political partisan relationship that was necessary for that group to be very powerful.

I see that situation as being probably the same thing with our Cabinet. There has to be a leader who leads us that receives the loyalty and support that is necessary to carry out the collective will; no different in many respects, Mr. Speaker, than our support that, at one time, we showed collectively for a man by the name of Georges Erasmus in the Dene Nation. He was our leader and we collectively supported him.

I see this whole process as being of a somewhat similar nature. Maybe in some respects we need to have this discussion outside of this Legislature and certainly we need to ensure that the people have an opportunity to make their choices.

But I am also going to say this. Despite our efforts to pass the Legislature or to give whatever direction necessary, I think it is an important issue that needs to be taken to the people. I think that, whether we take it now or whether we take it through the election, it's important that we hear clearly what the people have to say about the authority that our leader should have.

Now, saying that, Mr. Speaker, I hope that we understand that, as Mr. Lewis has said, it should really be left in many respects to the choice and direction of the people, and maybe one way of hearing that, if it doesn't happen, is through our standing committees, and if not, I certainly do hope it is one of the issues that is articulated and clearly identified on our political platforms.

The other point I also want to make clear is that I think the principle, while we are debating it, is that we are also giving second reading and therefore giving an opportunity for others to at least have their view and express their position clearly on this particular matter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will support the bill. I want to see this, as my colleague for Amittuq has quite correctly pointed out, debated a little bit further, and I am certainly aware that it will be an election issue.

In my opinion, when it comes to the principle of the bill, what we are doing is we are evolving. We are evolving from one form of government to another form. The ultimate form of government, of course, would be political parties, which none of us want to see here at this point in time. It has been brought up in many elections in the past and will continue to be debated in elections in the future, I am sure.

Many of us have spoken about the unique form of government that we have here in the territories, and we boast about it when we travel internationally. People do look at us with envy that we can manage the way we have. But that type of relationship, Mr. Speaker, that we have so much enjoyed, has been eroded in the past four years. It was not consensus any more; it was quasi-party politics, without names. This, in my opinion and in the opinions of many people that I represent, is a good, positive steps towards rectifying a situation that I guess could, if taken to its ultimate, get out of hand, and we will end up with what we don't want: party politics.

Here's a relief valve, if you wish, that will meet our needs in this unique Legislature and for the next government. Then, we can go back to consensus government at a later time, if we choose and if the people direct us, or we can make a step forward into party politics if that is what the people direct us to do and that is what this House does at the end of the next four years.

I think that we do need to debate this a little bit more to work out some of the things that are perhaps frightening to us, like my colleague from Yellowknife Centre has said. We see a wolf behind every bush on some of the issues that would scare us. How are we going to do these things? How are we going to accommodate the selection of a Premier? How are we going to ensure that there is a balance between the respective groups in the territories, the Dene, the Metis, the non-aboriginal, the Inuit? How are we going to ensure that is happening? How are we going to ensure that there is a balanced representation on Cabinet of those people by population, those types of things; where one represents 25 per cent of the population of the territories, one should have 25 per cent of the say.

Some Hon. Members

Ohh.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Oh, I love that. I love it. That is true consensus, you see that we do agree.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Whitford, can we avoid any debates here and have some order in the House? Continue, Mr. Whitford.

Tony Whitford

Tony Whitford Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate your guidance. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to conclude by saying that I don't think by defeating this motion we will solve anything. I think we will accomplish an awful lot by approving second reading, getting it to where the Standing Committee on Legislation can look at it, getting it to where the public can give us some more input when we go back to our respective constituencies, as my colleague from Amittuq quite correctly pointed out.

I am supporting the motion, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. To the principle of the bill. Mr. Pudlat.

Kenoayoak Pudlat Baffin South

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a very interesting debate on the bill. I have been hearing a lot of different opinions from the Members of this House. I don't have a lot of opinions on this bill; however, I would like to make a few comments.

The reason why we are debating this bill is because of our constituents; so that we can better serve them in the future. This is not just for the current Members of the Legislature. We try and look for ways that we can improve our ways of life and quality of life. We would like to see this bill being debated with dignity and equality for all people. Somehow we have to try to come up with a compromise so the pros and cons of this bill can be debated further, to help our people in the future.

Some Members stated earlier that in the smaller communities, there is no such thing as party politics, that this is something new to us. However, our younger generation will be more involved in party politics, as it is becoming inevitable. At this time, we have to be able to make up our minds about what would be better suited for the public we serve. Although we would like to make everyone happy when we pass legislation, we cannot always make all the people we represent happy, whatever it is about. I would like to state that I'm coming from an aboriginal point of view. I am here to represent my constituents and I have to speak for them, since they cannot be here.

I would like to encourage young people who will be involved in government in later years to become more aware about what is happening today in our Legislature. We have to start educating the people we represent so they will be better informed and have a better understanding about what kind of system we want to have in our government. We have to have a good government and have to work together to come up with a system that would be best suited for all the people we represent. I have a concern that, in light of fiscal restraints we are currently undergoing, come 1999 we aren't sure where we will be fiscally. I know we are going to go through a tough time trying to get a government running in Nunavut. However, we have to start preparing now so that our government can run smoothly in Nunavut.

I really can't decide whether I'll oppose or vote for the bill we're discussing right now. These are all the comments I wanted to make, Mr. Speaker. Sometimes our constituents tell us that we don't give them enough information or that we don't consult with them enough before we vote on important issues such as the bill we're debating at this time. We have to be able to inform the public about what kind of system we will move to in the future. I know we try to do the best we can for our constituents. I can't say whether I will be voting in favour or against this bill at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill. Mr. Zoe.

Henry Zoe

Henry Zoe North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A number of Members have made a number of points and I don't want to repeat what my other colleagues have said with regard to Bill 33. Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me backtrack and give you some facts. When the whole issue of discipline came up with regard to Cabinet Ministers, an issue was raised in the Standing Committee on Finance. We indicated that we needed something to be rectified and I think the government has done that with Bill 28 -- which also amends the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act -- which gives authority to the Premier to discipline the appropriate Ministers.

As you may recall, Mr. Speaker, the Members indicated that we've been running into a lot of problems, especially when the House wasn't sitting. This area was identified by our standing committee, and we were happy that the government responded to our recommendation to rectify this problem we've been having for the last number of years. That was done through Bill 28. Now, while Bill 28 was being reviewed by the Standing Committee on Legislation, for some reason or another, they decided it hadn't gone far enough. They wanted to also give the Premier additional powers to hire, which wasn't the intent of the Standing Committee on Finance. We saw the problem as not being able to discipline between sessions. We ran into a number of problems, and I'm sure I don't have to identify specific instances during the last few years when that happened.

Mr. Speaker, during their review, the Standing Committee on Legislation recommended to the government that this particular item be brought forward. I know the government is adhering to the Standing Committee on Legislation's recommendation to give additional power to the Premier but, nevertheless, I have a problem with this bill, Mr. Speaker. Number one, how are we going to properly consult the general public on this issue? We have a process that we follow when legislation is introduced into this House. And, as you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Members have categorically indicated that we will most likely not sit later than June 14th.

But, I know for a fact that if this bill goes through second reading and is referred to the Standing Committee on Legislation, they would have to hold public hearings and, most likely, travel to the five regions of the territories, to get comments from the general public on this issue. Also, there has to be adequate time to advertise in the newspaper and on the radio, et cetera. Possibly on television, also. I'm questioning the time frame that we're dealing with because my understanding, from talking to a number of Members, is that everybody wants to leave by next week, on Thursday. I don't think we're going to have adequate time to deal with this legislation.

Members have indicated in this House, as my colleague from Amittuq said, that we should consult the public and let the public have input into this issue. I agree. If this thing passes, I agree that we should have proper consultation with all constituents. In order to facilitate that, Mr. Speaker, it means we will most likely not adjourn until maybe late July. If Members are willing, then I'm willing too.

Mr. Speaker, another concern I have with this bill is we're tying the hands of the next group coming in, the 13th Assembly. As my colleague from Nahendeh indicated, especially during our last session, we have been passing legislation on this floor that will bind the hands of the people coming into the 13th Assembly. Why don't we let them decide how they want to deal with this issue we're dealing with today?

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, some of my colleagues have indicated in the House that they want to do this. I'm having a bit of a difficult time. As I indicated, there is the timing of this. Are we going to have proper consultation? Secondly, I feel that we're tying the hands of the new people coming in to the 13th Assembly.

For those reasons, Mr. Speaker, I can't support the principle of the bill. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the principle of the bill.

Some Hon. Members

Question.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Question is being called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Bill 33 has had second reading and, accordingly, the bill stands referred to committee.

Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters: Committee Report 10-12(7), Report on Bill 32: An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2; Bill 25, Education Act; and, Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, No. 2, with Mr. Whitford in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

The committee will now come to order. What is the wish of the committee? The chair recognizes the Member for Yellowknife Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Dent. We have a motion on the floor which is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

I shall rise and report to the Speaker.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Whitford, item 20, report of committee of the whole.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Chair

The Chair Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee wishes to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Thank you, Mr. Whitford. Is there a seconder to this motion? Mr. Allooloo. We have a seconder but we don't have a quorum.

The chair recognizes a quorum. There's a motion on the floor. All those in favour? Those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Nerysoo.

Point Of Order

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Point of order. Could I ask unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents?

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

Mr. Nerysoo, it's not a point of order, but the Member is asking for unanimous consent to return to item 13, tabling of documents. Do Members agree?

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

---Agreed

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 1249

The Deputy Speaker Brian Lewis

There is no opposition. Proceed, Mr. Nerysoo.

Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents
Revert To Item 13: Tabling Of Documents

June 8th, 1995

Page 1249

Richard Nerysoo Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document. Tabled Document 119-12(7) is a letter to Mr. Dennis Patterson, MLA for Iqaluit. It's a response with regard to the leaders' meeting on education and training for Nunavut, dated May 16, 1995.

I also wish to table Tabled Document 120-12(7), a letter I received from the Status of Women Council of the Northwest Territories on April 28th regarding the debate on Bill 32.