This is page numbers 297 - 329 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was development.

Supplementary To Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

The next one.

Supplementary To Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Question 209-13(3): Community Funding For 1996-97
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 307

The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Item 10, replies to Budget Address. Mr. Ootes.

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Mr. Ootes's Reply

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rather than speaking with a lot of descriptive rhetoric, let me cut right to the chase. For those of us who were new to the Legislative Assembly last fall, we had a big learning curve to go through. We had to become familiar with our roles as MLAs, while at the same time absorb -- or swallow -- thick books of financial and other data in a short space of time. We quickly realized that the government faced a tangled economic problem that needed to be unravelled. We agreed to the establishment of three standing committees in the envelope areas of infrastructure, social programs and resource management to address our concerns.

This new committee structure permitted all ordinary Members to selectively participate in the review of departmental business plans. So six months after our first meeting, we are now considering Mr. Todd's first budget. Mr. Todd tells us that he projects the deficit this year to be $150 million if spending cuts are not introduced. He has explained that this projected deficit has come about because federal government transfers of $90 million. The remainder of the deficit is caused because of overexpenditures by this government; $37 million alone in the forced growth areas of the social envelope departments of Health, Social Services and Education.

It is important to note that Mr. Todd will not balance the budget this year. Mr. Todd has stated that the budget he has laid before us for the 1996-97 fiscal year will result in a $43 million deficit. So on April 1st next year, we will have increased our accumulated debt to $86 million. For me, Mr. Todd has not made eliminating the deficit a firm enough target; not this year and not in the next three years. The truth is, we will be going into the two new territories with an accumulated debt of at least $86 million if we follow Mr. Todd's plan. In my opinion, only a balanced budget this year would set the stage for the annual surpluses in the coming years that would allow the government to address an enduring problem.

The NWT Chamber of Commerce is also of this opinion. The chamber has sent a letter to Premier Morin with copies to all MLAs, stating that in dealing with the government's current financial situation, it is the considered opinion of the board of directors of the NWT Chamber of Commerce that every effort should be made to present a balanced budget for 1996/97. In other words, get rid of the projected 1996-97 deficit of $150 million completely this year. The letter continues: "Dealing with the accumulated debt would be done in the following two years. Only under extreme circumstances should it be stretched over two years." The NWT Chamber of Commerce also urges the Legislative Assembly to ensure that there be no accumulated debt left by 1999.

When the substance of the deficit elimination plan is analyzed, for me, it is wrong. Optimism can often hide an unhappy truth and so, for me, it is here with the deficit. I am afraid we will have a tough time wrestling the debt to the ground if we allow it to grow this year. There are several things to remember if we have to cut the budget substantially next year. It will not be as easy or as simple as what we will go through with this budget before us now. In all likelihood, we will see further downsizing of the federal transfer payments because of reduced budgets in Ontario and Quebec; perhaps in the neighbourhood of another, hypothetically, $20 million or $30 million.

A decision is imminent by the federal Supreme Court on the Fair Practices Act. This could also present a substantial liability possibility to the territorial government. Therefore, I would venture to say that our deficit for the coming year could conceivably rise from $43 million to $80 million and, therefore, our accumulated debt could reach $120 million at this time next year.

I made a commitment to my constituents during the election campaign that I would push to have the complete debt eliminated by the time we go into the new territories. Our top priority should be to restore the North's finances so that there is no debt to worry about. Then we can work on economic recovery and diversification. In order to do this, we need to consult the public and to seek the input of experts. We can do that through a taskforce; a taskforce to look at job creation, to examine measures to resuscitate the North's ailing economy and to study how to reform the North's social network. This taskforce should be coordinated by one central chair with membership from this House and membership from the public. This taskforce could also coordinate with the Premier's Advisory Panel on the Economy.

Their combined report should be placed before a three-day socio-economic summit from which we would emerge with

a clearer picture of where we are going socially and economically. This taskforce should be turned loose to examine, review and make recommendations in a variety of directions. We need to review the economy -- to consult the private sector -- find out what these people see as priorities and opportunities; what they see as their obstacles to growth. We need to review the proliferation of the territories' boards and agencies and how they could be streamlined, merged with other groups with the ultimate goal to save dollars.

The taskforce could talk to the front-line program deliverers of this government. It is my understanding that many of the front-line workers have not been consulted about where possible cuts can be made to streamline government operations.

The real rise in the cost of operating this government is in the social envelope area. The social envelope departments of Health and Social Services, Education, Culture and Employment, Justice and the NWT Housing Corporation account for 60 per cent of this government's spending. We should study these cash guzzling departments. After all, the government's role should be to get people out of the safety nets that we have, so they can integrate themselves into the emerging economy of the North. Taking this first step into this economic self-sufficiency is the hardest. We need the government to take the crutches away and help people get jobs and economic opportunities.

The government's role is multi-fold. It is to improve the health and lifestyle of its people. This task is monumental. In order to bring about large-scale, social, economic reform, we must create jobs for people. We must, in turn, improve the revenues of this government so, in turn, this would help people get out of the safety nets.

In order to create jobs quickly in the territories, we need mega projects. There are many great economic opportunities possible in our territory. What is that emerging economy? It is mining. Let me give you an example. BHP is proposing to establish a mine which will employ 600 people to start with and, when fully operational, employment will be up to 850 people.

Just south of the BHP project is the Dia Met project where Kennecott Canada and Aber Resources are developing a similar size project. That means employment potential of approximately 1,600 to 2,000 people. There will be an equal number of spin-off jobs; potentially 4,000 jobs for two mines.

Also, we have tremendous oil and gas potential in the southern parts of the Mackenzie Valley and on the Arctic islands. Forestry is another resource we can take advantage of. I was pleased to see in Mr. Todd's statement, emphasis in his Budget Address that the NWT is open for business. However, I do feel that previously this was not the message the mining industry was getting. I support the mining industry with the proviso that they provide jobs and business opportunities to the maximum extent for northerners, no matter how challenging that might be.

The northern accord is the only means by which we can replace the revenue dollars we are losing from the federal government. I fear, however, that the federal government has already tasted the $100 million plus in royalties it can collect from the diamond mines. I doubt very much that the federal government would be willing and easy to give up its royalty shares. However, I am supportive of the efforts to negotiate this situation out and it is ultimately very important that we get the aboriginal groups onside in this endeavour.

We must continue to aggressively pursue a beneficial resolution to the northern accord negotiations. We have a decade of opportunity before us. Let's take advantage of it.

---Applause

Item 10: Replies To Budget Address
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 10, replies to Budget Address. Item 11, petitions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

May 12th, 1996

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Mr. Speaker, I would like to present Petition No. 16-13(3) dealing with the matter of the MLA report on compensation. Mr. Speaker, the petition contains 155 signatures and, Mr. Speaker, the petitioners' request: "We, the undersigned, request that the MLA compensation benefits package be publicly debated and resolved." Thank you.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 11, petitions. Mr. Krutko.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I would like to table Petition No. 17-13(3), it has 26 names and is with regard to the request for the review of the MLA compensation package, public debate and resolution.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 11, petitions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

Page 309

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table two petitions. The first is Petition No. 18-13(3) and is with regard to the MLA compensation report, which contains 118 signatures: "We, the undersigned, request that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved."

The second petition, Petition No. 19-13(3), is with regard to naming of the Western Territory. This petition contains 268 signatures and, Mr. Speaker, the petitions request: "in the matter of a petition to the governments of the Northwest Territories and in the matter of a petition to the Government of Canada by the residents of the western portion of the Northwest Territories.

We, the undersigned, hereby petition the governments of the Northwest Territories for the Western Arctic after division in 1999. The designation has served the North and western portions of Canada throughout our modern history and carries with it that history and international recognition of which we, as residents of the Northwest Territories, are justly proud.

Further, we believe that any change in this designation will result in needless expenditure, discord and international isolation. The Northwest Territories is our home and we want it to remain as such." Thank you.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 11, petitions. Mr. Barnabas.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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Levi Barnabas High Arctic

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Petition 20-13(3), regarding ... (Translation ends) ...eight signatures. Mr. Speaker, the petitioners are teachers and staff from the Allurut School in Nanisivik and Umimtak School in Grise Fiord and Inuujaq School in Arctic Bay. They request that the MLA compensation and benefits package be publicly debated and resolved. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

Page 309

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to present Petition No. 21-13(3), dealing with the matter of the MLA compensation report. Mr. Speaker, the petition contains 41 signatures and, Mr. Speaker, the petitioners request: "We, the undersigned, request that the MLA compensation package be publicly debated and resolved." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 11: Petitions
Item 11: Petitions

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Merci. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 41-13(3), a letter from Freund Building Supplies to the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi with regard to very specific recommendations and concerns to the business incentive policy. Thank you.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Krutko.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 309

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 42-13(3), which outlines the Tl'oondih healing program; special reading for Mr. Ng.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mrs. Thompson.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

Page 309

Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table Tabled Document 43-13(3), Finding the Right Balance: Options for Changing Land Development Practices.

Item 14: Tabling Of Documents
Item 14: Tabling Of Documents

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The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. Item 14, tabling of documents. Before we move on to item 15, I would like to remind Members that tomorrow is the last day for replies to the Budget Address. Thank you. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motions for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions.

Speaker's Ruling

I have reviewed the Motion 6-13(3) and must rule that this motion is out of order. In ruling this motion out of order, I am required to communicate to the House the reasons why this motion is being ruled out of order. It is ruled out of order because what it tries to accomplish is contrary to our rules, and I quote Rule 23(c): "in debate, a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member persists in needless repetition or raises matters which have been decided during the current session;

And further, Rule 23(f) "In debate, a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member reflects upon any previous vote of the Assembly except for the purpose of moving that it be rescinded."

In ruling this motion out of order, I would also like to draw your attention to citation 558(1) of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules and Forms (6th edition), and I quote:

"An old rule of Parliament reads: That a question being once made and carried in the affirmative or negative, cannot be questioned again but must stand as the judgment of the House. Unless such a rule were in existence, the time of the House might be used in the discussion of a motion of the same nature and contradictory decisions would be sometimes arrived at in the course of the same session."

Members will recall that on Thursday, March 29, 1996, the chairman of Committee of the Whole reported that consideration of Tabled Document 1-13(3), The Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation, was concluded. The House, in formal session, concurred with this judgment by adopting the motion on the report of the chairman of Committee of the Whole. As a result, consideration of the Report of the Commission on MLA Compensation cannot take place at this session unless otherwise ordered.

I thank you for your attention, I trust this clarifies my decision. Thank you.

Item 17, motions. Motion 7-13(3), Public Disclosure of Contracts and Public Sector Salaries. Mr. Picco, Member for Iqaluit.

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories is responsible for the expenditure of public funds provided to them under the appropriation authority of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories has a responsibility to be fully accountable for the manner in which funds are expended;

AND WHEREAS the responsibility for accurately reporting the expenditures of public funds lie with the Government of the Northwest Territories;

AND WHEREAS certain expenditures of the Government of the Northwest Territories are not available publicly;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, that this Legislative Assembly requests the Executive Council to consider amending the Financial Administration Act to require the reporting in the Public Accounts of all sole-source and negotiated contracts in those amounts of $5,000 or more in a fiscal year;

AND FURTHER, that the Executive Council table on an annual basis a list of all contracts entered into by the Government of the Northwest Territories in those amounts of $5,000 or more in a fiscal year;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Executive Council consider introducing legislation that would require the public disclosure of the salary and benefits paid in respect of employment in the public sector to employees who receive remuneration of more then $100,000 a year.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Picco. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Picco.

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past several days, people have asked me why I was trying to get the negotiated and sole-source contracts tabled in this House. Mr. Speaker, I was asked who was I trying to get, what company was I trying to implicate. There could be nothing further from the truth, Mr. Speaker. I believe that public money spent by this government should be accountable to the people. I think that the residents of the NWT should know what contracts were let, why and how much. Accountability, Mr. Speaker, accountability. When the facts are on the table, then and only then can informed debate take place.

Transparency, Mr. Speaker, transparency. How often have I heard it in this House? When the public and MLAs have access to a list of sole-source and negotiated contracts, the people of the NWT will be able to judge if particular projects or, for that matter, purchases were done at a premium.

During my election campaign -- it's right here, Mr. Speaker, in one of my pamphlets -- I said that, as a first step, more accountability and public disclosure from all levels of government is needed. That was back in September, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is not a witch hunt or a vendetta, this is money spent by a public government and given that it is public government, it has to be accountable to the public.

If it is not public, then where there are no collusions or favouritism, some people might perceive this as so. Other jurisdictions in this country publish said information. Although we are in a fiscal crisis in the NWT, can we not afford the few dollars it will cost to publish the requested information?

Mr. Speaker, what Member in this House will say no to the public who want to see this, the 13th Assembly, doing government differently? That is why we were elected and that is why I have moved this motion. Accountability and transparency in the way this government does business will show the people of the NWT that the 13th Assembly is accountable and transparent.

I would request that all Members of this House respect the wishes of the public and publish all sole-source and negotiated contracts as moved in the aforesaid motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker John Ningark

Thank you. To the principle of the motion, Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess it is a matter of accountability and it's a matter of public interest to me that we do publish sole-source contracts that are over $5,000, and information on it, and salary levels over $100,000. I believe that this will bring forward a better system of government for us. It's accountability to the public and it will rid us of any speculation that the people may have that we're not transparent. So, I'm the seconder and I fully support the motion. Thank you.