This is page numbers 241 - 272 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Budge Reply 2-13(7)
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 254

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it was very interesting to hear the Budget Address of the Minister, Mr. Dent. I would like to congratulate him on presenting his first budget. I would like to congratulate the Premier for appointing such a competent person to that position. You do have good support around the north, Mr. Dent, and I wish you the best of luck with getting your first budget through this House. That does not necessarily mean what you bring in will come out at the other end either, but we will try to work with this government to accomplish that.

The community of Fort Resolution has a long history of forestry industry, harvesting the white spruce timber along the Slave River since the early 1800's. Until the early 1960's there were sawmills and logging camps barged up and down the Slave River. Since the completion of the road from Pine Point in the late 1960's, there has been a permanent sawmill facility in Fort Resolution under various owners and management organizations until the Northwest Territories Development Corporation took over the business in 1994. In the past 30 years, two to three generations of residents in the settlement of Fort Resolution have either worked in the sawmill or logging operations at one time or another. Logging and sawmilling have been in this community for over 150 years. One hundred and fifty years, Mr. Speaker, and as part of the fabric of this community providing good, meaningful, longer-term employment for several generations.

Since the construction of the present sawmill, the financial performance of this sawmill has never achieved its potential for a small-scale forestry operation. There are a multitude of reasons for this, but they come down to four major factors. No comprehensive long-term business plan based on the available wood supply, lack of on-site competent management, over a 40 percent drop in lumber prices over the past few years, not unfamiliar to what we have been hearing of Yellowknife with the drop in gold prices. The lumber prices have dropped approximately 42 percent, and this government has chosen, at this time, to increase the stumpage fees at least a hundredfold, I believe it is, for this government's revenue from our sawmill in Fort Resolution reaches close to a quarter of a million dollars that we have to pay to harvest our own loss in Fort Resolution.

These four deficiencies have resulted in losses of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the past, and the trend will continue unless there is a major change in the direction and operation of this company. With this trend, the Northwest Territories Development Corporation has only two appropriate financial options. The Northwest Territories Development Corporation has only two options available to them, Mr. Speaker. Support the following, the achievable business plan which I will table later today in this House, or wind down this operation for closure for good, putting the community of Fort Resolution residents completely out of any viable income.

Close or wind down the operation, those are the two options they have, Mr. Speaker, and I already have commitments from the Premier. We already have commitments from the Finance Minister, through his Budget Address, from the Premier earlier today in this House that the second option is not really an option of winding it down and closing it. They are committed to working with the people of Fort Resolution. They are committed to working with the people in the smaller communities to make their businesses viable, especially when it is the only economic activity that we have in the community. The socio-economic implications of closing this facility would be significant on the community of Fort Resolution.

In the past three years, Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited injected over $450,000 in payroll for local residents during the milling season. As well, logging and construction contracts and the forestry operations exceeded $600,000, most of which are awarded to local contractors. The loss of these dollars would have a devastating effect on their economy, of not only Fort Resolution, but also much of this money is being spent directly and indirectly in our neighbouring community, Hay River. As well, over $500,000 annually has been spent directly on supplies and services, most of this coming from our neighbouring community of Hay River. A total of over $1.5 million has been injected into the Fort Resolution and Hay River economies annually. Over the past three years, the continuance of this sawmill has been important to both Fort Resolution and Hay River, Mr. Speaker, and the South Slave region. I may add it is important, in general, to the whole Northwest Territories, the new Northwest Territories.

In recognition of the economic importance of Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited, the Northwest Territories Development Corporation recruited a general manager with expertise, background and knowledge to develop the existing asset base of Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited and to a profitable, sustainable company that would be a flagship community of forest operation in the new Northwest Territories. The role of this general manager was not only to run the day-to-day operations but to develop a viable business plan to ensure a long-term sustainable business. This business plan is a result of eight months of research into the internal operations of this company, as well as consultation with other individuals with the industry. To ensure that the investment in capital, operational cost, and marketing is appropriate for the economies of scale and geographic challenges this operation has, the result of this plan is a realization of this sawmill in Fort Resolution. This sawmill in Fort Resolution can be profitable, viable, and a long-term business that will be self-supporting within three years.

That, Mr. Speaker, is when I go back to the vision of this government. This government has a vision to ensure that we have the tools, to ensure that we have the things necessary as part of their vision to think longer term. That is what this plan does. It does not have a quick fix for tomorrow. It is not going to turn the sawmill around overnight, but they do have a vision, that is good to hear, that this sawmill can be turned around within three years and it could be a profitable, viable and long-term business that will be self-supporting within three years.

Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited and the community of Fort Resolution presently have the following elements to become a modest manufacturer of lumber and timbers and other forest products in the Northwest Territories: existing accessible long-term viable timber supply, sawmill plant and infrastructure. We have excellent road and transportation infrastructure, an experienced work force, as I mentioned earlier, experienced for generations, existent competent management. The limiting factors of this operation is the forest land base, the sustainable allowable cut available, over the long term, has not been determined. Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited presently has access to harvest or purchase 50,000 cubic metres of white spruce timber to April of the year 2000. With this licence, as well as future allocations, Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited plans to log and manufacture from 20,000 thousand cubic metres to 25,000 cubic metres annually, in between 3.7 million to 5 million board feet of lumber. Processing this volume with the existing sawmill equipment would see a large loss.

In order to improve the financial performance of Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited, the following objectives must be achieved: the sawmill must improve to ensure maximum labour efficiency, lumber recovery must be improved by at least 20 percent, smaller diameter logs down to six-inch stump must be utilized efficiently, the wood waste for the disposal must be reduced and managed properly, high product value must be obtained for the lumber and timbers.

Those are the tools we need, but that is also part of the vision of this government, the vision of the future. When we have a vision, we have to have that vision from one community to one community to one community. We just cannot think wide and high at this level. We have got to think of our communities out there that are striving to make a living and striving to make to make their economy work so we do not all end up back on welfare. People are willing to work, and it should be the government's job to make sure that they have the tools to work with.

Production levels will average 40,000 board feet of rough dimensional lumber per day from the sawmill and 50,000 board feet per day from the planer. Eighty per cent of this volume will be finished construction lumber sold into the northern market at a price above $390,000 board feet, FOB Fort Resolution. Sales projected in the first year will exceed $1.2 million, $1.8 million in the second year, $1.7 million in the third. Net income over that period is projected as follows: for the 1999-2000 cutting season, $325,960 in the hole; 2000-2001, $92,110 to the good; 2001-2002, $6,490 to the good.

Once you reinvest in other equipment in the mill to make it produce right, that will be the sales and that will be the profit this sawmill will make. This does not include the lumber and log inventory we have on hand and the Premier will have an opportunity to see that when he visits Fort Resolution in a very short period of time, but you can barely see the lake from the stack of logs in that yard. They have approximately 50,000 logs laying on the ground and the yard in Fort Resolution harvested by Fort Resolution people this winter.

The results of the financial performance will be the development and maintenance of 20 to 25 permanent seasonal positions in the sawmilling and planing operations and another 20 positions in the logging operations through contractors. As well, Great Slave Lake Forestry Products Limited will continually generate $1.5 million of direct economic activity from a local sustainable resource, from a local renewable resource. More importantly, the people in the community of Fort Resolution will have the opportunity to develop the skill base to operate and maintain a value-added forestry operation and continue the local sawmilling tradition.

Great Slave Lake Forestry Products Limited will also be manufacturing and selling a quality lumber product throughout the north, as well as going south. When we sell lumber to the south, we bring in new money to the Northwest Territories, Mr. Speaker. Also, by speaking to some of the residents and leaders in Fort Resolution, Mr. Speaker, the long-term plan has never changed. When we asked the Development Corporation to come into our community according to the legislation that set it up through this House, we asked them to come in and help us to get our sawmill up and running so that one day we can have it owned and operated 100 per cent by Fort Resolution residents, That plan is a part of the vision of our community in Fort Resolution. We are hoping to achieve that.

The forestry resources, one of the most critical elements in the success of the Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited, is availability of a timber supply within the forest land base. Traditionally, the land base for this operation is in large diameter stands within Slave River lowlands. There has been discussion regarding the annual allowable cut available for this area and how sustainable the present cut levels are. However, there has been a comprehensive inventory to determine the true annual allowable cut at sustainable levels. Renewable Resources, forestry management division, and the Deninu Ku'e First Nation are scheduled to complete a forestry inventory by the year 2001. Although there will always be a large portion of the annual harvest taken from this area, this company must look for other potential sources of timber from other stands west of the Slave River and Fort Resolution, timber stands previously considered unmerchantable must be included in the land base in order to continually maintain a viable annual allowable cut. As a result the average log size will reduce over time.

This limited wood supply makes it imperative that Fort Resolution sawmill must effectively recover all available lumber from logs down to a six-inch stump and four-inch top. When we are talking about west of Fort Resolution, we are not talking Nahendeh, we are not talking Deh Cho, we are talking in our own area east of Big Buffalo River and west of Taltson River. That is where the Slave River lowlands lie and that is where our timber stands lie as well. We do consider them ours, Mr. Speaker. They are ours. That is our traditional lands and we will continually harvest from those lands.

At present, Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited retains a two year licence of 40,000 cubic metres. A total of 18,000 cubic metres will be harvested in 1999 and 20,000 cubic metres to be harvested in the year 2000. In addition to its own licence, Long Island Logging Limited is a holder of a licence for 10,000 cubic metres over two years, which are both aboriginal people from Fort Resolution. As well, the Fort Resolution sawmill is the only customer for logs within economic hauling distance, all logs from Long Island Logging Limited are purchased by Great Slave Lake Forest Product Limited. This guarantees 50,000 cubic metres of timber are available for the sawmill over the next two years.

Mr. Speaker, the overall harvest for the next three years is projected to be: 1998-1999, 23,000 cubic metres; 1999-2000, 25,000 cubic metres; 2000-2001, 20,000 cubic metres; 2001-2002, 20,000 cubic metres. Mr. Speaker, when we harvest this amount of wood, this government expects from our people in Fort Resolution, a cheque close to $250,000 to $350,000. Why is this government still requesting that type of cheque from the community of Fort Resolution through the Great Slave Lake Forest Products to harvest our own wood? There is no reforestation program in our area. That was a program implemented by the federal government that this government adopted. When you go to the office downtown here to get a service from the government, not too many people are expected to pay that type of money for a service. Those cheques alone that we have to produce for our stumpage, harvest our own wood, is killing our sawmill, Mr. Speaker. That dollar is there to be reinvested into our sawmill and it can make it go a lot farther and make it more economically viable. Even the British Columbia government, how big it is and how distant it is from the people, knew that. Even they reduced the stumpage fees in order to make their forest industry more viable and I believe they did it in other places in southern Canada. I have asked that question before, Mr. Speaker, and I have never received an answer yet, except from the deputy minister of Renewable Resources, I will get back to you. I have never heard back yet, so that is one way we can make this thing more viable is by reducing those stumpage fees and reducing what you expect as a government to get from the people of Fort Resolution through the Development Corporation.

We have to do the logging different in our area, Mr. Speaker. With an annual harvest of between 20-25,000 cubic metres, the only economic, viable and environmentally acceptable harvest technique is hand falling with line skidders. The volume is not large enough to warrant economies of scale of purchasing faller bunchers or big machinery like that. All logging will be done where possible with the use of local contractors and local employees. Contractors in the Fort Resolution area only require the purchase of good used line skidders with an approximate value of $30,000, which can earn potential revenues of $53,000 in approximately three months. The objective is to encourage the development of skill of contractors and individuals in the safe and proper logging techniques. However, there is a limit of skilled loggers in the community of Fort Resolution. Mr. Speaker, the reason for that is the majority of our older loggers are now at retirement age and a new group are coming up and some of those young fellows have to be trained properly because the sawmill was down for some time and there was no continuation of that operation. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue on my reply to the Budget Address. Thank you.

Budge Reply 2-13(7)
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 257

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Yes, under Rule 35(4) Members are allowed 20 minutes to reply to the Budget Address. The Member for Tu Nedhe is seeking unanimous consent to waive this Rule 35(4). Do we have any nays? We do not have any nays. Mr. Morin, you have unanimous consent, but to remind the Members again that while we are in formal sitting to address the Members or the Ministers in their proper title and that means the honourable Member, not Charles. Just to remind the Members, okay. Please, Mr. Morin.

Budge Reply 2-13(7)
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 257

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will try not to do that any more, honourable Member, Minister of Finance, Mr. Dent. I thank the Members for the unanimous consent. Like I was saying, Mr. Speaker, we do have a gap in the logging end and in the falling and skidding for the simple reason the mill was down and we missed out in training some of our young people. The majority of the best skidder operators and the best fallers are at retirement age now and those are the people who worked many years in the bush. This part of the harvesting operation will retain, but it will still create 20 to 25 jobs for two and one-half months for local residents in the winter months. Great Slave Lake Forest Products Limited is, and will continue to utilize, soft log picker trucks to load, transport and unload logs for the licence area of the Fort Resolution sawmill. Mr. Speaker, these are soft logging trucks that have huge pickers on them that are a very high investment for people and logging companies out of Fort Resolution. They made that investment this year in December. The logging sawmill requested the companies in Fort Resolution to invest in these pickers, so people went out and did that. People actually went out and invested their own money in these pickers to bring these logs into the yard and they got paid. This was the first year of that operation, so hopefully it will continue so those people can recoup their investment as well.

You must understand that logging in the Northwest Territories is very difficult, very short period of time, and you have to make large investments to get any return on that money. The people of Fort Resolution are committed to this as well and they have proven that by investing dollars in equipment to actually go out and log. As well, as individuals I know that are long-term trappers have switched occupation and went and invested in skidders as well. We have also had, for the first time this year, a local contractor who went out and invested in equipment to build a winter road, and the Minister of Transportation can appreciate how much that costs, in order to put in winter roads and ice crossings and everything else and the investment of those people in that community. Once again, Mr. Speaker, the logging costs are projected at $41 a cubic metre and taking $10.30 per cubic metre for reforestation fees, that is what they are called, into consideration, the operational costs for logging is projected to be $30.70. Once we added $10.30 to it, that is one of the highest costs for logging in North America. The reason that is, is because of the stumpage fees. That is one of the main reasons and that is that reforestation, but they do not do that any more anyhow. But that is what we are paying this government for every metre, $10.30.

For those Members that know my area also can understand that the first 20 miles of getting in to any of the logging areas is just a floating bog and that has got to be some tough winter road building too, Mr. Speaker. It is one of the toughest areas to build winter roads in. Previously through this government, previous governments, we used to get roads to resources type funding and that was $25,000 a year outright grant to any company that had to put in winter roads to renewable resources and we managed to do that in the past.

Mr. Speaker, I could go on with this report for hours and hours. I think it would take me about two more hours to finish it. I am about one-tenth of the way through, but I did ask for unanimous consent and I asked for the Members goodwill to carry on and finish my statement. I do understand the rules of this House and I will not put the Members through two hours more of me reading this report. I will table it later in this House, but one thing I want is for it to be made very clear to the Members of this Legislative Assembly, especially to the Members of this government, is the sawmill in Fort Resolution is more than nuts, bolts and machinery. It is people, it is people's lives that this government has to make a decision on. There are not many choices. There is a clear path on how to recover. There is a clear path on how to make it work. It is up to you to take the right road. With that, Mr. Speaker, I thank you and I thank the Members in the House for allowing me to speak more than my allotted time. Mahsi.

Budge Reply 2-13(7)
Item 10: Replies To Budget Address

Page 257

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Yes, Members do have opportunities to address their concerns in this forum and

different committee of the whole past the Opening Address. Item 10, replies to the Budget Address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a document, Great Slave Lake Forest Report and Business Plan from March, 1999. This was given to me by the people of Fort Resolution. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Motion 18-13(7), Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I would like to move a motion for support for Ms. Roberta Vaneltsi.

WHEREAS Roberta Vaneltsi is a resident of the Northwest Territories and is a person of Gwich'in heritage;

AND WHEREAS she is the mother of two children, namely: Roman Cerny, born May 5, 1986; and Petra Cerny, born January 20, 1989;

AND WHEREAS the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories issued a custody order on June 29, 1994, which granted joint custody to the parents of the two children, Roberta Vaneltsi and Petr Cerny, and which permitted Mr. Cerny to take the two children to the Czech Republic for a period of one year only;

AND WHEREAS Petr Cerny failed to return the children to Canada when scheduled to do so by Court Order;

AND WHEREAS Roberta Vaneltsi was subsequently granted sole custody of the children by an Order issued from the Supreme Court of the Yukon;

AND WHEREAS Petr Cerny has consistently disobeyed the Canadian Court Orders and has refused to return the children to Canada or to let the children travel to Canada for the purposes of visiting with their mother;

AND WHEREAS when the children were initially sent to the Czech Republic, the Czech Republic was not a signatory to the Hague Convention on the civil aspects on International Child Abduction;

AND WHEREAS Ms. Vaneltsi could not then rely on the Hague Convention to have here children returned to her;

AND WHEREAS the Czech Republic is now a signatory to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction;

AND WHEREAS it is every child's right to be able to visit with, and spend time with, their parents;

AND WHEREAS it is critical that aboriginal children be exposed to their culture and to their heritage;

AND WHEREAS the Courts of the Czech Republic have yet to make an order which would allow the children to travel to Canada to visit with their mother;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Honourable Member for Hay River, that this Legislative Assembly supports the efforts of Ms. Roberta Vaneltsi in securing meaningful visits and contacts with her children, Roman and Petra Cerny, including visits to their home in the Northwest Territories;

AND FURTHER that the Premier and Executive Council are strongly encouraged to request the federal government to take all possible measures to assist Ms. Vaneltsi in being reunited with her children, including contacting the Government of the Czech Republic to express its strong concerns with respect to the fact that these children are being denied the opportunity to visit with their mother in Canada and are being denied their right, as aboriginal children, to be exposed in a meaningful fashion to their aboriginal heritage and culture.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this issue has been around for a number of years. I have raised it in the House in the past. Basically I have asked for support from this government and also to ensure that we try to assist Ms. Vaneltsi in trying to regain her children and bring them back to Canada so that they can spend time with her. Mr. Speaker, this incident has been around for a number of years. Ms. Vaneltsi has made every attempt to her ability, using the judicial process she has obtained legal council, she has made attempts to travel to the Czech Republic to try to convince the court in the Czech Republic to allow her children to have access and visits to Canada to be with her. There has been a Court Order issued by this government regarding the question about the access of the children where Mr. Cerny refused to bring those children back to Canada. Yet, in the Court Order by the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories, it clearly stated that he was only to have the children for one year. Also regarding the question about custody, Ms. Vaneltsi has received sole custody of the children in the Supreme Court of the Yukon, in which yet again that order has not been recognized, but now Mr. Speaker, the only avenue that Ms. Vaneltsi seems to feel she has to her ability to try to do something is a political process.

Ms. Vaneltsi has made every attempt to use the judicial process and I believe that it is these types of issues that ourselves as Members of the Legislative Assembly and also as people who have to protect the residents of the Northwest Territories in any way we can. Especially children. We have to find a political solution to this problem and I have made statements in this House in the past which have asked this government to intervene on her behalf. Yet she has not received any real meaningful support from this government in regards to representing her and her intervention with the courts. Also, she has made attempts to get the federal government, through our MP, Ms. Ethel Blondin-Andrew, and our Prime Minister of Canada, Mr. Jean Chretien, where letters have been sent back and forth with no real positive outcome.

I am asking Members of this House, the Premier and Members of Cabinet, to strongly make an effort to bring Ms. Vaneltsi's children home back to Canada and the Northwest Territories where they belong. With that, Mr. Speaker, I call for the support of all my colleagues and Cabinet. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the motion. The seconder. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to speak in favour of Mr. Krutko's motion. I seconded the motion. I expressed in my Member's statement yesterday that I sympathize very much with this mother and her inability to gain access to her two small children, who are now residents of a foreign country, and it would appear that she has been caught up in a web of international rules and red tape and unfortunate circumstances from which I do not believe it is going to be possible for her to solve with her own resources. I do believe this is an instance where this government could bring its influence to bear in this situation and through contacts with the federal government and Minister of Foreign Affairs could help to see this situation resolved. I believe that is the kind of action that the last paragraph of this motion is calling for.

This is a very unusual case. You do hear of cases like this occasionally, we have all seen documentaries of TV programs when something like this happens, but this is an instance that is close to home in which we as a Legislature, I believe, should take an active role in resolving on behalf of a northern constituent. I think we should bring this to the floor of the public arena, I think if there is anyway we can draw national or international attention to this sad situation, I believe that we should do so. With that, Mr. Speaker, I would just like to say that these are the reasons for my seconding the motion and I would, as well as Mr. Krutko, encourage all Members, including Members of the Executive Council, to become involved in solving this problem as soon as possible. These children are growing up and as each year passes they are missing the influences and input of their mother. I believe it is a matter that should be dealt with as quickly and as directly as possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that Mr. Krutko has been working on this situation for at least the last three-quarters of a year. I recall he raised the issue in this House some time ago and he has spoken to us in committee and on an individual basis. I am very supportive of this particular motion. I think that certainly many people are affected by this, the mother and the children are extremely affected by this. I think that from a government standpoint, no doubt our Minister of Justice and also the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, can no doubt contact the federal Department of Justice and perhaps the Department of External Affairs to see what the problem may be, Mr. Speaker, to address this situation, to see what kind of help that can be provided to find some resolution to this.

It must be very aggravating for someone like Ms. Vaneltsi, and possibly her children, to be separated. Certainly our government in Canada can work on this and, as Mrs. Groenewegen has said, perhaps this needs to go into the public arena to be addressed. I know that Mr. Krutko has briefed us on this situation and pointed out that Ms. Vaneltsi has spent considerable time and money in an effort to deal with this. She has been to the Czech Republic to see if she could retrieve her children, all without success and no doubt with great aggravation. I am very supportive of this motion and will encourage the government to provide its support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will vote in favour of this motion made by Mr. Krutko, MLA for the Mackenzie Delta, and seconded by the MLA from Hay River. Mr. Speaker, I think this is an injustice, that our government should do what it needs to do to try to correct. I believe that this whole issue falls in the hands of the federal government, who is our government as well, and they should be working on behalf of the Canadian citizens to try to retrieve these children from the Czech Republic. Mr. Speaker, that would be the most devastating thing to the mother of these children, to be separated from them. I just could not imagine how cruel that is to the mother.

Mr. Speaker, our government should immediately be in touch with our MP, who is our link to the federal government, as well as the Prime Minister. The Premier's office does have direct contact with the Prime Minister of this country to protect the citizens of our country. This lady is a citizen of Canada, she is a citizen of the Northwest Territories, so we should do whatever possible and as soon as possible to try to protect her rights, as well as the rights of her children. Mr. Speaker, I believe that our Member of Parliament, like I said earlier, plays a very important role and we should, through this motion, by passing this motion, giving her direction on what to do, as well as the Prime Minister of this country. I believe that the Premier, knowing him well, will action this once we have passed this motion in this House and will action it with proper action. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to state for the record that the Cabinet is very sympathetic to the difficulties experienced by Roberta Vaneltsi. There are very few things in this world that are more powerful than the love between a mother and her children. Those of us with children here can all too easily put ourselves in her position and know the pain that she has probably been experiencing and enduring all this time here. I have been aware of this situation for some time.

Since the motion provides a direction to the Cabinet, the Ministers will be abstaining from the vote. However, it does not take away from the importance of the issue, and I want to ensure Members and the mover and the seconder and Members on the other side of the House and members of the public that we are very supportive as a Cabinet, and we will do whatever we can to assist in this very difficult situation. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, will be voting in favour of this motion. Mr. Speaker, it is unacceptable that someone could take a Canadian child, particularly an aboriginal person from this region, to another country and not return those children to the mother. We know that this is not an isolated incident, Mr. Speaker. This happens a lot of times, frequently. In fact, we see the posters in the stores. We go to Wal-Mart, you see some posters. You go to the drugstore, you will see posters of missing children. Often times there is another picture right beside that missing child and it is one of the parents who has kidnapped that child. This instance is basically the same thing. These children were basically kidnapped through the use of deception, taking advantage of the good will and the naiveness of Ms. Vaneltsi. The father of those children used the illness of his parents in the Czech Republic so that she would agree to allow those children to leave this country. When she was there, they did not come back. Not only that, he did not send the kids back either.

Ms. Vaneltsi has gone to the Czech Republic, Mr. Speaker. She has gone to courts there. Unfortunately, there was no assistance from our embassy and Canadian representatives at that time. She wound up with a lawyer, I understand, who could not speak English and with no interpretation in the courts. Mr. Speaker, this type of thing cannot be allowed to happen. This should not happen to a Canadian citizen.

We need to make sure that if she goes back there, she has every assistance available. Our Premier, our Intergovernmental Affairs Minister, needs to impress on Ottawa on how important it is. This does not only affect this one woman and her children. It is Canadian citizens all over the place who this should not be happening to. We do need to ensure that we can provide her with the greatest political assistance at as high a level as possible to correct this injustice. Other Members have spoken about how painful it must be, the love of parents for their children, and I cannot agree more. I simply cannot imagine it. Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, I will be voting in favour of this motion. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

To the motion. Mr. Krutko, do you wish to make your closing statement to the motion?

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Thank you, Mr. Premier. Like I said earlier in my statement, I think the only avenue that is left to Roberta is to go the political route. We have to find ways of ensuring that this becomes a public issue and also that people are made aware that this does not only happen in the larger cities or other places in Canada, this is happening right at home in the Northwest Territories. Ms. Vaneltsi is basically an aboriginal person from my home community of Fort MacPherson. She is a resident of the Northwest Territories. The same with her children, these children are aboriginal children with Gwich'in decent and they are also children of the Northwest Territories. I feel it is my responsibility to ensure that every effort is made by this government and by the Government of Canada that this injustice does not continue, that there be some arrangements made to ensure that she does have access to her children, and vice versa, her children to their mother.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the people who have supported Ms. Vaneltsi so far and for Ms. Vaneltsi for standing up for what we can only say is a mother's will to try to get her children back. With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to again thank the Members in regards to ensuring this motion is carried out and also to the government to do everything that is possible to do whatever we can to try to work at resolving this problem or this issue as soon as possible to reunite Ms. Vaneltsi with her children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. To the motion. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? The motion is carried. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 17, committee report 1-13(7) with Mr. Krutko in the chair.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

I call the committee to order. We are reviewing the Main Estimates. I would like to ask what direction the committee would like to take? Mr. Erasmus.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to do consideration of Bill 17 and Committee Report 1-13(7) at the same time and then continue with FMBS and then proceed to Aboriginal Affairs after a short break.