This is page numbers 321 - 355 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Erasmus, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Morin, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Rabesca, Honourable Floyd Roland, Honourable Vince Steen.

Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 321

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when we spend money on education, the goal is to ensure children and adults are better educated, more self-reliant, and ready to take advantage of employment opportunities. We need good information to evaluate the result of our actions. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is increasing the amount of blue chip information available on its programs and services. This information is used for assessing program results, making programming decisions and to account to the public for activities. Given our limited resources, we need to measure the true value to northerners of the services we provide or support.

Later today, Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling Towards Excellence: A Report on Education in the NWT. This handy little document provides a profile of education from kindergarten to grade 12. The report covers a broad range of topics from school achievement indicators to educator information, from high school statistics to enrollment numbers. Information recently requested by Members of this House, such as the increase in student completion rates, can be found in the report.

While this is the second report of its kind, it is the first that provides information from a western NWT perspective. Work is currently underway on gathering the numbers of 1998-99. The department plans to update this information every two years. Mr. Speaker, reliable information is critical to good decision making and to public accountability for dollars spent. Towards Excellence provides the Department of Education, Culture and Employment with baseline information that we will use in our strategic and business planning. Over the next few years, we will revise and refine our information needs to develop a set of indicators which will effectively capture the results of efforts by the department, DECs, DEAs, schools and culture and heritage communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today my statement is regarding an individual, a young man, who is an entrepreneur who is trying to start up his own plumbing service in Aklavik, KLR Plumbing Services of Aklavik. This young individual has worked his way up to receiving his tickets in plumbing and gas fittings and just lately he wrote his exams to become an oil-burner mechanic, that will be recognized interprovincially. Mr. Speaker, this individual has made an attempt to establish a career path for himself and also to supply a service to the community of Aklavik. Mr. Storr has made every attempt to establish a business in Aklavik. The last business in Aklavik that sold plumbing supplies and also the service to help people with their furnaces and their stoves and their plumbing fixtures was Mr. Dennis Pascal who has moved to Tuktoyaktuk and no longer offers that service.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Storr, who has taken on himself to establish his business and has registered through the BIP process, is still having problems selling his business and his services to this government. Mr. Speaker, the service that is presently being provided, is provided out of Inuvik. This is an extra cost, because the individuals have to fly to Aklavik to do these services on behalf of this government on an as and when needed contract by this government, yet the individual that lives in that community cannot get work with this government. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be asking the Minister a question on the BIP process and why is it that individuals who live in the small communities who establish their businesses are not getting work with this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Rabesca.

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today, Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention a great event that will take place over this coming weekend in the City of Yellowknife, this of course is the annual Super Soccer Tournament. As we all know this tournament has grown from a few local and regional teams to include teams from all across the two territories. This is a great event that brings many young people together for the purpose of having fun, visiting old friends and making new ones and

participating in the sport they love.

For the past many years the teams to beat have been the Rae-Edzo teams, and I would suspect that this year will be much the same. Rae-Edzo has a very active indoor soccer organization. The youth start playing at a very early age and continue into adulthood. In fact, during the month of May, a team will travel to Germany to compete in a number of tournaments and hopefully come home victorious. It takes great dedication from the coaches and players to continually provide such a good calibre of players.

The community of Rae-Edzo has very good coaches that are very dedicated. These I would like to thank. Without their support and the support of others across our territory we would not have this type of competition, and our youth would not have these types of opportunities. In closing, I encourage all the parents to make an effort to attend this weekend's tournament and show support for our children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to speak today about government contracting once again and make reference to a letter I received from the Premier on March 16th, in which he stated that the FMBS had assembled a committee of senior management from several departments. This committee was tasked to develop a government-wide directive on negotiated contracts. That task force was to come forward with a report by March 31. In the House I asked the Premier if he would expand the task force, or the committee's mandate, to include requests for proposals and to make the report available to stakeholders for input. Mr. Speaker, I would like to make some reference to a number of areas here. Invitations to tender were used by the government for many decades and other governments as well. In recent years we have made more use of requests for proposals. In 1997-98, the report that I have, indicates that RFPs totalled $20 million and in 1998-99, through half the year, the total was $55 million.

Invitations to tender, Mr. Speaker, is an easy system. It is awarded on price only and it is opened in public and everybody knows the rules. But that is not so with RFPs. One of the difficulties that may be perceived in this is when small to medium companies bid and they bid unsuccessfully on RFPs after a while they become discouraged, because they do not have the resources to go after this like the larger companies. They may drop out from submitting RFPs. The feedback to proposers is also an issue, Mr. Speaker, the companies receive no feedback and the whole RFP process is based on a criteria sheet, called a rating schedule and it has six criteria, but the cost of the RFP, when awarding it is only 25 percent of the amount. Proposers are not given access to the rating sheets. Price by successful proposals are not revealed. This begs the question, are we turning contractors off because of our system and how do we know we are getting value for our dollars? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to direct my Member's statement to an issue of a constituent that has been raised to me in Hay River and I have received a copy of a letter. What I would like to do is just read some excerpts of it. I do not want to identify the person that I will be pursuing this on behalf of, but I would just like to read some excerpts of a letter because I was very moved by what I read. This is how it goes.

Because I am native, I was born native. I was raised by elders in the bush. I am a bush man. I can hunt, trap and fish. These skills among others I have been chosen to carry on and pass on to others, but I need a licence to sell fur and hunt. I choose to make my living in the bush of which there is still plenty. I have been trying to attain this licence for the past eight years now. I do not take UI or social assistance. I was taught not to impose on others. I have my own back and I make my own living. I have learned to have a great respect for the land and for all peoples, but I also respect myself and do not allow others to use me as a floor mat. I am old enough and prepared to give it a go. I was taught never to lie or steal. If you people only help me attain my general hunting license I would not feel like such an outlaw of which I am not. I do lots of charity work with children and elders and people in town and in the bush. I have no education to brag about, but I have my Ph.D in the bush. I make my living travelling around now doing odd jobs and playing fiddle music for people, but I am planning on trapping next winter on my own. I have a very low income and I have my income tax receipts to prove it. I am ready for a career and I want to pursue trapping. I know I have the right to live in the bush. I am a native of Cree descent. My grandparents were bush people, Treaties who made their living hunting and trapping. I am a bush man, I am free and I will fight for my rights and the rights of my native brothers whatever the cost may be.

Mr. Speaker, this letter is signed by a young man, a constituent of mine in Hay River. I have not read all of it, but I was very moved by it because this is a young person who has lived in the north for many years and has a dream and a desire to live on the land and he is right, of which there is plenty. We look at some of the difficulties that young people are running into and I think it would behoove this government to seriously consider when we can help young people pursue an ambition and an aspiration such as this without being caught up in rules and red tape. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Saturday evening I had an opportunity to go to Hay River and attend the 80th birthday of Mr. McBryan. Mr. McBryan came to the Northwest Territories in 1937 and they had a celebration in Hay River for him. He has been on the town council since 1962, I believe. He is one of the longest standing, sitting members in the municipal council in the Western Territory sitting on the municipal council, whether it be mayor or councillor for 30 some years, I believe. He is also very involved in flood watch in Hay River. He is very involved in the community, volunteering for many things and I would just like to say a Happy Birthday to Mr. McBryan of Hay River and I hope for many more birthdays. I would like to thank the town of Hay River for the invite down there to help them celebrate Mr. McBryan's 80th birthday and many years of service for the community of Hay River.

We heard many, many good stories that evening in Hay River, funny ones, as well as very serious ones. I always have a lot of respect for elders no matter what culture they come from, we owe them a lot. They have done a lot for the north. Mr. McBryan has done a lot for not only Hay River, but for the Northwest Territories in general and I know that Mrs. McBryan will be watching the Legislative Assembly today and, I hope for her that my tie is acceptable and I am standing as straight as I can and, with that, the best of luck to the both of them. Mahsi. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to speak about land claims within the North Slave region. Mr. Speaker, we have been informed that the Dogrib Treaty 11 people will be signing an agreement-in-principle soon. They are to be congratulated for this. It is a lot of work. I believe it is a new type of claim that is the first of its kind, it not only includes land claims but aspects of self-government as well. Mr. Speaker, there is a problem, however, in that the Dogrib Treaty 11 settlement area boundaries includes a lot of territory of their neighbours. This includes the people from the Deh Cho and from the Akaitcho territory.

In the Yellowknives First Nations instance, their communities of Detah and Ndilo are actually within the settlement boundaries. It also extends to the south shores of Great Slave Lake. Last year the chief from Fort Resolution indicated that when they wanted to do something in the river flowing into Great Slave Lake, the renewable resources people told them they had to consult with the Dogrib Tribal Council first. This was very embarrassing. Mr. Speaker, land claims have such things as management boards, wildlife boards, water boards, land boards and they have a great influence over the policies, laws and programs in these particular areas. That influence extends to all parts of the land and waters within the settlement area. All first nations usually celebrate when a land claim is finalized and even when an agreement-in-principle is signed. In this instance, unless a boundary is established between the Dogrib Treaty 11 people and their neighbours before their agreement-in-principle is signed, the only ones celebrating will be Dogrib Treaty 11. Their neighbours may be preparing a law- suit. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Henry.

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have spoken before in this House about the fact that in the past our Workers' Compensation Board was allowed to sue the very employees that it is supposed to protect. This was an antiquated and unique provision of the act that had long been done away with in the rest of the country. It was left in our act in 1977 because there were some outstanding lawsuits that the government at that time wanted to conclude. Yet, over the next 20 years, succeeding governments did nothing. Finally, last year, the act was changed. Not that the government actually did anything about it, but when a private Member's Bill by the Member for Yellowknife North was brought forward to do away with that part of the act, the government realized it could not object.

Mr. Speaker, this was a small change that was so obviously right, yet the government found it too difficult to do the right thing. Well, the government still has an opportunity to do the right thing. The Workers' Compensation Act was amended, but there is still an outstanding issue. The amendments that were passed had no effect on any existing lawsuits that are still outstanding. These lawsuits against employees and employers can still go ahead and are still going ahead. I gather that the WCB believes that the ongoing lawsuits should proceed to their conclusion.

Mr. Speaker, this is the same argument that Northwest Territories employers and employees heard in 1977 and they are getting tired of hearing it. In 1977 the rationale was that the government just wanted to allow the existing lawsuits at that time to be completed. These kinds of lawsuits were wrong in 1977 and they should have been stopped then. They were wrong when all jurisdictions in the country stopped doing them. They were wrong last year when the government realized that it could not object to the amendments to the Workers' Compensation Act. They are wrong now and they should be stopped.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister, I am sure, recognizes that there is an opportunity for the board to get money from these lawsuits. But this money comes from the backs of employees and employers and fundamentally violates the principles of workers' compensation. How can an organization set up to protect the rights of employees and employers turn around and sue them? Either we have a workers' compensation system or we do not. The board cannot have it both ways.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Yellowknife South is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? Mr. Henry, you have unanimous consent.

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you colleagues.

Mr. Speaker, let us face it, these lawsuits should never have been allowed to start because the act should have been changed 20 years ago. For the Workers' Compensation Board to continue to spend effort and money pursuing the employees they protect in these lawsuits is asinine. The Legislative Assembly has made a clear decision last year that these lawsuits should not happen in the future and the government agreed. I am calling upon the Minister responsible for the Workers' Compensation Board to act now in accordance with the principles of workers' compensation that are accepted throughout Canada and now in the Northwest Territories, to withdraw all outstanding lawsuits against workers and employers covered by the act. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Kakfwi.

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is in response to a question asked by Mr. Morin on April 22, 1999, with regard to closure of southern outlets of Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. The official name of the company is Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. It is 100 percent wholly owned by the Northwest Territories Development Corporation. The general manager is Clyde Sigurdson who reports to the president of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation.

At one time Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. had five retail outlets in southern Canada. They owned and operated retail outlets in Victoria, B.C.; Calgary, Alberta; White Rock, B.C.; and two in Toronto - one at the Pearson Airport and one at Queens Quay in downtown Toronto. In December, 1998, the management of Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. decided to close the retail outlet in Victoria effective March 31, 1999. Official notice to cancel the lease arrangement was given to the landlord at that time. A closing sale was held in January and February, and the balance of the unsold inventory was shipped back to the Yellowknife warehouse in March, 1999.

On January 31, 1999, the management of Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. decided to close the retail outlet in Calgary and cancel the lease arrangements effective April 30, 1999. Currently, we have a contract with IMI Marketing to manage the wholesale and corporate sales until April 30, 1999. The unsold inventory will be shipped to Yellowknife once the operation closes. On March 26, 1999, Mr. Joseph Handley, the acting president of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, and Mr. Clyde Sigurdson, the general manager of Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd., made a decision to close the retail outlet in White Rock, B.C. An arrangement has been made with a private individual to take over this store and sell our northern products on a consignment basis. All remaining inventory has been consigned to the new owner/manager.

Effective April 1, 1999, the two retail outlets in Toronto are owned by the Nunavut Development Corporation. Arrangements are being negotiated for this transfer. Nunavut Development Corporation has agreed to retail western products through these outlets on a consignment basis. In the interim, Arctic Canada Trading Ltd. is still managing and operating these two retail outlets. Arctic Canada Trading Company Ltd. is still a subsidiary of the Northwest Territories Development Corporation, however, with a reduced operation. Their mandate is to coordinate, develop, and promote and market Northwest Territories art, souvenirs, garments, crafts, fashion accessories and food products. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

Question 117-13(7): Small Business Access To Government Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

April 25th, 1999

Page 324

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Business Incentive Policy. Mr. Speaker, in regard to my Member's statement, I made reference to an entrepreneur in Aklavik, KLR Plumbing Services of Aklavik, which is owned and operated by Richard Storr. Mr. Speaker, this individual has gone out, received his journeyman ticket for plumbing and gas fitting and he has made an attempt to establish a business in Aklavik to supply plumbing and heating supplies and also a business to serve the people of Aklavik. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is why is it that this individual is having such a tough time getting contracts with this government yet, he should have an advantage through the Business Incentive Policy. I would like to ask the Minister in regard to the Business Incentive Policy, what does it take for an individual like Mr. Storr to be recognized through the Business Incentive Policy?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development,