This is page numbers 491 - 519 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was education.

Topics

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a letter regarding the Fort McPherson joint council and the concern they have with the shortage of social services workers in Fort McPherson.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

I would also like to table a letter regarding health care in Tsiigehtchic from a constituent of mine, Ms. Louisa Andre. It is regarding the concerns of Tsiigehtchic during the freak breakup in which they will not have access to a doctor during that time, and also concerns of smaller communities have to be involved in any public consultation process that has been put in place by this government. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Mr. Kakfwi.

Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motion For First Reading Of Bills

Page 506

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Wednesday, May 12, 1999, I will move that Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Labour Standards Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.

--Applause

Bill 19: An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motion For First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Mr. Steen.

Bill 20: Municipal Statutes Amendment Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motion For First Reading Of Bills

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Wednesday, May 12, 1999, I will move that Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act, be read for the first time. Thank you.

Bill 20: Municipal Statutes Amendment Act
Item 15: Notices Of Motion For First Reading Of Bills

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 17, Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, committee report 1-13(7), tabled document 31-13(7) with Mr. Krutko in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

May 9th, 1999

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We are dealing with Bill 17, Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, committee report 1-13(7). I would like to ask what is the wish of the committee. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr Chairman. I would like to recommend that we continue dealing with Bill 17, Appropriation Act, 1999-2000, and committee report 1-13(7) and specifically with the department of Education, Culture and Employment.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

At this time we will take a short break.

--Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you. I would like to call the committee back to order. We are dealing with the Main Estimates, Department of Education, Culture and Employment. At this time, I would like to ask if the Minister responsible, Mr. Miltenberger, would like to call witnesses.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to call witnesses.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Can the Sergeant-at-Arms escort the witnesses in. Thank you, Mr. Minister. Can you introduce your witnesses?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is Ms. Pauline Gordon, the acting Deputy Minister for Education, Culture and Employment. To my right is Mr. Paul Devitt, the director of management services and finance for Education, Culture and Employment.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. At this time, we have concluded the Minister's statement, committee statement, and now we are under general comments regarding the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. General comments? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think by now everyone knows that there are problems with our education system in the Northwest Territories. The recent Minister's Forum on Education consulted with residents on their views on ideas for our education system. The forum made recommendations to better the education system.

Unfortunately, the major problem with implementing all of the forum's recommendations is inadequate funds. The Northwest Territories is using an education system that does not have the money to implement properly. As a result, we have watched the system deteriorate and become a major concern for the people of the Northwest Territories. In recent years we have seen stress placed upon the system with things like new curriculum, increased class sizes, higher education requirements for employment, and higher costs of supply and services.

Mr. Chairman, if we do not address the situation, the quality of education in the NWT will continue to deteriorate. We have choices to make as a government and I believe that we can increase the funding to education and this is the avenue that we must focus our efforts upon.

Mr. Chairman, most of us as MLAs have received documents and information, I really want to say how pleased I am with the members of the public who have given considerably of their own time and effort into communicating to us what the existing situations are in the classrooms, schools and education system. I find that people are not just sitting back and complaining, but they are taking a very proactive approach to this problem. When the people begin to get involved like that, I think it is very commendable and it should send a very loud message to this government that the people are not satisfied with the education system and the funding that is allocated for it at this time.

I have received excellent feedback from my constituents and I had received a copy of a letter that was actually penned by Mr. Kern Von Hagen, the principal of St. Patrick High School. In that letter, there is a list articulated of some of the challenges that are facing our education system and I just want to briefly read it. I think it is a very succinct and articulate list. It said, we have among the highest pupil/teacher ratio in Canada. We have the highest level of special needs students in Canada. We have the highest level of illiteracy in Canada. We have the highest dropout rate in Canada. We have the highest youth suicide rate in Canada and we have one of the lowest levels of funding. Only 28 percent of students in the NWT graduate from high school. Mr. Chairman, I think that everyone will concur that these statistics are very alarming and that if we allow this condition in our education system to persist, it will be a recipe for disaster in the future. We will see extra burden placed on all of our social programs and services in the Northwest Territories. I am not sure of the statistics on it, but a dollar not spent on worthwhile education now becomes a very much greater cost in the future when we have to look after people who are incarcerated and who are very dependent on us as a government in the area that they have needs in their lives for.

We have heard from people who are on the front lines, in the classroom every day. It is not easy for us as legislators to really fully appreciate some of the challenges that are in the system. I have heard it said in this House that there have been no cuts in education. I think that everyone knows that we have in fact experienced an exodus of people from the North recently which has reduced the formula funding that we received from Ottawa. What we do have remaining in the Northwest Territories is a very young population. That population needs to be educated. This puts a growth factor on our system and it puts a stress on our system that we cannot be complacent about, but absolutely must address. If it would be appropriate now, Mr. Chairman, I do have a few questions for the Minister that I will incorporate under general comments.

It is in the area of administration costs. There have been comments made in this Legislature with respect to the fact that Ordinary Members sit on committees and that we do consider the Main Estimates in committee behind closed doors before they come into this House. In our education system, there are many levels of administration. They include departmental, regional operations, district boards, at which there are seven at this time, community administration, school administration, college, headquarters and campus administration, and even program administration. Administration at each of these levels, although very necessary, cost a lot of money. The Department of Education supplied the following information to us. They indicated that ECE was around $2.2 million, the board administration is at $4.1 million, community administration at just under $1 million. That comes to $7.33 million being spent on administration for schools alone. This is slightly over 9 percent of the total budget. Then there is, as I mentioned, the college administration as well. Further, the directorate has an operating budget of $5.4 million. I was wondering, can the department and the Minister identify how much of its money is being spent on administration at the departmental, regional, board community and program level? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issues that the Member raised in her opening comments are concerns shared by, I would suggest, all people in the Northwest Territories. I think we all want the same thing, the question is how do we achieve that given the financial realities that are facing us. I would just like to clarify a number of facts here before we proceed into answering the issue of administration.

The numbers that I have since division, for example, the suicide rate in the west is significantly closer, if not at the national average. It is still too high, but it is not as high as people are saying. We are also spending, on a cost per student, second only to the Yukon. The teaching staff, depending on how you look at the pay grid, is either the highest paid or the second highest paid, once again, compared to the Yukon. Very clearly, we have issues with literacy, we have issues with the dropout rate, we have issues with increasing graduation. As I indicated in a Minister's statement when we were last in session, that when I look back 30 years, I think we have made significant improvements to the educational system. We do have a long way to go, a lot of issues to address. Should the revenues ever make themselves available, we could very easily put to productive use whatever revenues that this Legislative Assembly sees fit to put into Education, Culture and Employment.

The other figure is the growth rate. Since we have divided, the projected growth is slightly over 1 percent and a lot less than we experienced as a joint territory to the extent that we anticipate that we are not going to be needing a lot of new schools, that we can make do with what we have.

The issue of administration costs that the Member referred to, I could not quite follow all of her numbers, but I know that about 6 percent of the school's budget, about some $90 million including capital is devoted to divisional and local board administration. At the departmental level, it is in the neighbourhood of, I believe, 4 percent roughly that is spent in the headquarters level. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The point I was trying to make is that it would appear that anywhere between 9 and 10 and a half percent of the budgets between schools and colleges is spent on administration. I guess we have been challenged many times lately by our Cabinet colleagues to suggest areas where there may be potential savings. I realize that administration is an important part of delivering any services and programs, but in light of what has happened recently in Nunavut, I would like to ask the Minister, has the department investigated the possibility or even looked at the possibility of reducing the number of education boards in order to reduce administration costs to deliver more of this into the classroom to where the students are? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister responsible, Mr. Miltenberger.