Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the first thing I would like to respond to is I understand the concern the Member's concerns are. They are similar to what we have heard in this House over the last week or so. I think it is also important to point out that things are not hopeless, that we have an education system that is doing the job, that we have funnelled hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into and are continuing to do that. There are needs and improvements necessary and we are going to try to take the steps to do that. I think the message we want to send to the people of the Northwest Territories is that we do have a system of education that has evolved over the last 30 years. Hopefully, if we make the right political decisions in terms of revenues, we will continue to evolve.

We are also faced with, as was discussed earlier in this House, if I could bring this up once again, the issue of competing priorities and needs, motions passed on accelerating, things like Highway 3, were raised again today. The Minister of Transportation was asked to in fact do that. We all know what the budget figures are, we also want to put money to education. We have parcelled out the money to the best of our ability we think at this point.

The issue of adult basic education, once the budget is passed, when it is passed, there is $1 million in the budget for a revised, it was called last year, Investing in Peoples, now called Community Skills for Work Program. There should be a letter on its way back to the Member's community, if not to himself or the mayor, about the issue. Once the budget is passed there will be money available for this fiscal year to continue those programs in conjunction with whatever Pathways money and other funds are available at the community level to provide adult basic education services. Thank you.

General comments. Mr. Rabesca.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for the interest of the Members in regards to K to 12, the Beaufort Delta education council gets $16.7 million dollars for the upcoming year. The Deh Cho gets $8.2 million, the Dogrib divisional board will get $9.3 million, the Sahtu division will get $7.1, the South Slave will get $14.8 million, Yellowknife public

denominational district education gets $9.4 million and Yellowknife district education authority gets $14.007 million. As the Member from Mackenzie Delta indicated, private schools get $326,000, for a total of $80 million and $13 million, capital plan. Thank you.

General comments. Mr. Erasmus.

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I will check into the funding situation that the Member raised and will respond and ensure that an application is put forward and considered and carried on with. I do not know the specific number that was funded for last year, but we will try to ensure that things continue.

Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member indicated hearing discussion about possibly trading off Highway 3 for education does not make him feel good. Sitting here as Minister of Education for the last two or day and a half, listening to the demands and pressure for more money, it does not make me feel good either because I do not have any more money to offer up. It is unfortunate if the Members are distancing themselves from their report and I am sure the Member for Hay River was just joking when she said who cares what we recommended. They are very serious about what they put in that report and possibly things have evolved as the Member indicates, but I think it is a situation where we want the same thing. We both know the fiscal reality and we are trying to deal with that and the issue of special needs funding is part of the block funding arrangement to school boards and, it is initially similar to the formula we had with the federal government, part of the calculation of the overall big number. Once it goes to the

school boards, the school boards, at this point, have the latitude or the authority to decide how it is portioned out and whether, in fact, they want to put it towards strictly special needs. This is an issue that is of concern once again and that is one of the reasons why we are looking at developing an accountability framework in conjunction with the DECs so we can have a better sense, as can they, about key indicators of success and the effectiveness of the money that is being spent and it also points to the need of better clarity in regard to the whole special needs program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the bottom line is that we need more money in education. Now we can sit here and quibble about whether we said it in the recommendation or in the report of the committee or whether we did not, it does not matter. I mean, there were a lot of factors that affected what went into that committee report. Number one we had division, so there was a totally different kind of reporting mechanism, two Members of the committee were brand new. I was new on there and even if we did not recommend it, what we are telling you now is that we have heard much more from the people in our constituencies since then and people have put a lot of effort behind their words and they are saying that we need more money for education. So, let us not point fingers any more at who should have put what into a report or who should have done whatever. We are not pointing a finger at the Minister, but we are seeing that as a group of legislators and politicians and caretakers of the budget of the Government of the Northwest Territories, we do have responsibility for what we designate as priorities and what we deliver that money to. Whatever has been said or done in the past, the bottom line is that we need more money for education and surely the government, the Cabinet, in conjunction with the Minister, can take a look at that.

Now, you have asked us, where do you want to take it from, where do we find the money? Well, we have been suggesting various things in the House here about where this government could find the money and there is not a person out there in the public in this western Arctic that does not know that there are areas still, even though we have gone through budget cuts and everything else, there is money. If the budget is a shopping trip, for years we have been pushing that cart around and we have been buying certain things and now the reality is we have to come back to the basics. Maybe there were luxuries in the past when Ottawa gave us more money. That is what we had then, this is what we have now and still within the framework of what we have now, I believe that there is more money that can be found for education. As I have pointed out in the House and I will say it again, amazingly there is a picture painted that somehow the Ordinary Members micro-manage the expenditures of departments and we do not and yet we sit here in amazement when initiatives are announced.

I just opened the News North the other day and read where the three apartment buildings here in Yellowknife went into receivership out of Mr. Pocklington's estate, someone from down south bought them and now they are going to condominiumize them and tell all of the tenants, come and get your $10,000 down payment. I do not know what kind of economy that creates, I do not know what it does, but I am just saying that there seems like there is no cap and there is limitless money for other things. Does anybody agree with me? I mean that is over $4 million. Is there any cap on that program? I mean you get some Realtors or developers from down south who are going to come here and flip those apartment buildings and make a fortune. I know it sounds a little off the subject but that is millions of dollars we are talking about, millions of dollars and we are asking for a few million dollars for our special needs in our schools because we see that as a really important area.

One more time for the Minister, I want to take the opportunity try and simply paint the picture as it is and I am not saying that he is not perceiving this, he is not understanding this, so I want to do it one more time. If the Minister will do this for me, I would like him to imagine a classroom with 25 elementary school students in that classroom. I would like him to consider widely varying levels of achievement because of our policy of social passing. I would like him to then add to that mix the fact that 40 percent of those students are sitting there with some form of possibly undiagnosed special need. Then I would like him to add a couple of children with a profound challenge because we have an inclusive schooling policy and therefore we do not want to segregate children with special needs of a profound nature, so add them into the class. Then add to the mix one teacher. Take away from the class any support in terms of classroom assistants or special needs assistants in that classroom because we do not have the money for it. Take away from that teacher who is a person and has to live, take away from them affordable housing, take away their VTA so they cannot get away for a holiday. Cut the pay when other jurisdictions are launching comprehensive recruiting programs and different working conditions than what we have to offer here. We do not have, like the Yukon, the majority of our communities on a highway system. There are different working conditions here in the North. Now add to that mix new curriculum every couple of years and, Mr. Chairman, tell me what all of that adds up to.

If that does not add up to, if it is not a crisis right now, I think people with foresight can see that that is what is looming. That is what lays ahead and if we cannot as a government at least educate our children then I wonder, seriously, what we are doing here. When Mr. Miltenberger was asked in the House last week if he thought education was in a crisis, Mr. Miltenberger said "No, I do not", and perhaps things are not as bad now as what we foresee they are going to be in the future, but I believe the problems if they are not addressed are going to be compounded and I do not believe things are getting better. I think we are going to continue having a younger population here in the Western Territory and we are going to have increased, not decreased, but increased demand on education and educators.

We need to be proactive and look at this now and try and do what we can for the children that are even in the system now who have special needs, who have challenges in receiving their education. I mean our social challenges in our society here in the North affect our ability to educate our children but at the same time if we do not educate our children it is a catch 22. It is a vicious circle. That affects our social challenges and it just becomes a never-ending problem. So I agree with the Minister, we do have some things to be very pleased about and there are some accomplishments, there are some things to be proud of in our education system and we do not want to diminish that but we have a large problem and it needs to be faced, and it needs to be addressed with funding. More money. That is all I have to say, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will restate these comments and if the Member will imagine with me, 14 Members in the Legislative Assembly like this, all with roles to play, working for nine months on a budget for all the departments, for all the needs across the Northwest Territories where days ago the budgets of all the departments except the Department of Education, Culture and Employment were passed and approved. Now tell us that they have changed their minds in the eleventh hour and want millions of dollars moved from somewhere into education. I respect the need for the MLAs to, in fact, bring forward these concerns and they are concerns that we all share but we are in the eleventh hour of the budgeting process and, yes, we will do what we can, yes, if there are new revenues I will be front and centre making sure that education is given the priority consideration that has been put on it by the people of the Northwest Territories but I would ask the Members to consider that process as well.

It does not diminish the issues that have been brought forward in this House but we are involved in a process and it is the final act of this play and to say now, on the second last day of the House, we have changed our mind on all those budgets that have been passed, I am not sure where that leaves us. I know I am left defending this budget and I am prepared to move ahead with this. We will do what we can but if, in fact, the intention is to reopen all the other budgets and look at things I do not know how that would work. I am prepared to sit here as long as necessary. We are concerned. We have passed the budgets as a group of 14, as I have indicated, so I am at the direction of the House. We have heard the concerns loud and clear. We have responded now for a day and a half and will continue to respond as long as there are questions but the revenue picture, the budget numbers stay the same. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mrs. Groenewegen, you have three seconds.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a motion to report progress..

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The motion is in order. It is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Thank you. I will now rise and report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 17 and committee report 1-13(7) and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.