This is page numbers 661 - 692 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was yellowknife.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you. Madam Chairperson, I was not going to make general comments other than my introductory remarks. However, since the process of the consultation was brought up, I feel I have to comment as well. This whole process with Bill 15, the court case by the Friends of Democracy which compelled the government to come forward with Bill 15, in order to comply with the 25 percent variance, has created tremendous animosity from the people living in the smaller communities towards the larger communities and, in particular, to the community of Yellowknife, in which I reside. Reflecting back on my campaign four years ago, people commented to me that they were afraid that Yellowknife would become an island by itself, that with constitutional development and whatnot, Yellowknife would become isolated from the rest of the communities. I saw this process bringing that isolation further. Having been born and raised in the Northwest Territories, not planning on going to retire in Kelowna or someplace like that, I felt it would be disrespectful of myself not to go to the smaller communities to listen to the people. I am glad I went. I know it was not a popular thing to do. There has been a lot of press about how it is a junket and a waste of money, all the rest of that. But to the 30 other communities out there who are not getting MLAs are very, very concerned.

It is not a matter of aboriginal people versus non-aboriginal people. In the communities that we went to that were not receiving more MLAs, particularly in Fort Smith and Fort Simpson, there were a great deal of non-aboriginal people who made presentations as well. They are just as concerned as the aboriginal people. They are very concerned that their voices will no longer be heard, that the scarce resources will not be fairly distributed anymore, that the larger communities will totally dominate this Legislative Assembly and the money, the budget that the Legislative Assembly gets.

I think it has to be stated as well that we heard in those communities that the people from the larger centres from the committee not coming to the smaller communities to hear their concerns was a reflection, a justification of their fear, because it was showing their contempt for the smaller communities in not even bothering to come and listen. That is what we heard out there. As I say, I think for me it was good to go, because just listening to and hearing aboriginal leaders saying that they did not like this -- we get that all the time. People say, well, that is Gary Bohnet, that is George Kurszewski, of course he is going to say that. But when we went there, we heard the ordinary people expressing their fears of what may happen in the future. We heard from aboriginal as well as non-aboriginal people. I think that while there may have been some work done in the past, there was never this situation before that was being discussed. People were more concentrated in their comments on this particular issue.

With that, Madam Chairperson, I must say that I am glad to hear that the Cabinet agrees with a lot of our recommendations, and I hope that they are going to implement them. There has been a great deal of animosity created towards Yellowknife in particular, not only by Bill 15, as I say, but by the Friends of Democracy's court case, to begin with. Living in Yellowknife, I do not want to be living on an island myself. I certainly hope that we can do the few things that we have suggested to bring some measure of relief, some measure of comfort to the smaller communities, to the people living in the regions out there who are very, very frightened by this bill that we are going to pass in the next little while. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Any further general comments on the report? Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I, too, had the ability and the time to go and visit communities up and down the valley this summer on Bill 15. As Members are well aware, previously I sat in Cabinet for seven years, and you do not have a lot of time when you are a Cabinet Minister to do a lot of other things other than be a Cabinet Minister and take care of those duties. I remember when living back in Fort Resolution, there was always a cautious approach to Yellowknife and what it represented, but I did not realize what people really thought of our capital city until you went and listened to what they had to say. I told a lot of them that I have lived here going on seven years now, and there are a lot of good people in Yellowknife. There are a lot of good people who are very, very interested in the future of the North. They are very, very interested in the development of the North. They are strong supporters of the inherent right of self-government, aboriginal government. There are good people here. I know a lot of them. So never judge a place only on the actions of a handful of them that are very vocal or on the actions of some of their elected representatives. You cannot judge a complete community.

Definitely people out there see very clearly the power shift that is going to happen in this Legislative Assembly. Those that say it is not, have either run out of fingers to count or they do not have the ability to embrace reality. When you have 11 of 19 Members that come from major centres and seven of them from our capital, you do have power. Ultimately everything comes through this House. The final decisions are made in this House. You may not be able to tell that the way the government of the day operates, but ultimately that is the way it should operate. Things should come through this House, and that is where the final decision should be made. People up and down the valley that we have heard, regardless whether they were aboriginal or non-aboriginal, are very concerned about the power shift. I have heard everyone say they want a political solution. Every last one of those people said the judges overstepped their boundaries, they entered the Legislative Assembly, made decisions - political decisions instead of justice decisions.

The Legislative Assembly Cabinet, after the decision was made, chose not to come up with a solution, but to take the advice and not appeal the decision and bring this bill forward, Bill 15. Everyone, even in that debate, was saying they have to come up with political solutions. Now everyone knows that we are all in the dying days of the 13th Legislative Assembly. Everyone knows that, but we are all still being paid as well. We are all still being paid to make decisions on behalf of the people of the whole Northwest Territories. Nobody wants to see a lame duck government. It is one of the worst things to watch.

People have to remember where they come from. People have the responsibility to stand up for what they believe in. If people believe that there is no hope to hold the Western Territory together, then they should say that. But if Members believe that we should show some leadership and supply the glue that holds the fabric of the new Western Territories together, then you should make bold decisions and move ahead.

As far as our report goes, there will be recommendations and motions. Some are useless without the other ones passing. But we went out, we have heard the people and we are repeating what people have said to us. I know the government of the day has already shown, regardless of a motion passed in this Assembly giving it direction, does not have to listen to that. I hope that it never stoops to the level of not listening to the people because we have, went out there and listened to the people. We agree with what the people are saying. You have to come up with a political solution. It should be a solution that carries, or a process for that solution, that carries the same weight as the legislation you are introducing today. It is your committee of the whole as well, Bill 15.

The two have to be equal because, if they are not, then you end up giving nothing. It is not the time to pass the buck onto the 14th Assembly. It is not the time to shrink from our responsibilities. It is a time to make decisions and it is a time to offer solutions. So with that, Madam Chairperson, I will be happy to hear other solutions than the ones we brought forward, but we do need a solution. Or the Members of the 13th Assembly and the Members of the Cabinet of this day, they will be the ones that go down in history and said we have given up, we can do nothing. Or we will not do anything, or we will not do anything or we do not have the political will to do something.

We are all elected by our people to come here and vote. We are all elected to do what is right for all of the Northwest Territories, not just a selective few. So hopefully you will all think of that when it comes time to vote and I hope that, in those cases where it does not include spending money, that you will not only allow a free vote of the Cabinet Members, but allow free debate on this issue. On an issue of this importance, no elected Member should be allowed to hide behind their chair. They should all speak so the voters know what you really feel. With that, I look forward to the debate, questions and motions. Mahsi Cho, Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Further general comments, Mr. Krutko.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you Madam Chairperson. I would like to thank the people that did come forth regarding the public presentations that were made in all the different communities and regions. I believe that this is the turning point. I always thought that division was going to be a bright light for the Western Territory. What has happened within the last three months, I think it is a pretty sad time in history that we have to sit here and deal with this decision which was put in front of us with no real options to weasel your way around by using different wording, taking the time to find a workable solution, and also have the ability to sit down with all interested parties and work out a solution to this problem.

I think the biggest losers in all of this is the relationship that has been worked on for 20 years, regarding aboriginal people's desires, expectations and goals of some day being able to deal with their own problems, programs and services and be a positive light in the society of building of a new Northwest Territories. The reason I say that is because I have been involved in the land claims process going on almost 15 years. I started off as a young man with lots of ambitions and hopes that I would see something positive come out of doing something for the people I represent. To be able to see those people being proud people as they were in the past and having the ability to take on their own healing programs, developing their own human resources by being independent, by owning their own construction companies, building companies and by having an economic base that they can depend on without depending on the government and Yellowknife.

The problem I see here is that we have mechanisms that are in place for this government and the future governments that will have the ability to change the path for aboriginal people. Being in this House almost four years, I have not seen anything that I can say is positive. We have a Northern Accord process which we put as one of the priority items of this governments. We had community development programs for community wellness. I raised a lot of issues, a lot of concerns from my riding. We have some major problems in our aboriginal communities. We have some major health problems with the people in our aboriginal communities. We have some major problems when you have six, seven people in one house. You look at the statistics of where the aboriginal people are versus the non-aboriginal people when it comes to jobs, when it comes to life expectancy, when you come to realizing that we as a government represent the aboriginal people just as much as the non-aboriginal people.

What I see this government doing is that there is a wall up between aboriginal initiatives and the Government of the Northwest Territories. Every time aboriginal people want to take two steps forward, they are pushed back three steps. I mean that in the context of where we have gone and our progress in land claims negotiations, where we are going with self-government negotiations and where we are going with the Northern Accord process that this government is involved in all three aspects. There is no positive process in those areas.

Something that just popped out of the sky one day and gave us the diamond mines. It did not take long for this government to come up with the resources to develop policy in diamonds and also having the resources to develop training programs around that industry. The communities are crying out for developing drug and alcohol programs, such as the ones I have raised in the last four years in regard to the Tl'oondih program. Community initiatives regarding Aklavik, wanted to look at the Knute Lang Camp. We did it with 24 Members in this House which had the majority of rural Members from the eastern Arctic and also the west. In regard to making any progress on those areas, it was awfully difficult. And we can see in regards to this House on issues, where people stand. We can use issues such as negotiated contracts. Negotiated contracts are more in the context of aboriginal communities and giving them that ability to eventually be competitive. What has happened to negotiated contracts? Basically, it has come to a point now where there are memos being passed around saying that so and so does not support negotiated contracts so there are no more negotiated contracts. That was a positive thing that this government could have continued to do with aboriginal people, but instead they decided to sweep it under the rug.

The same thing comes in regards to the issue of health care. Aboriginal people, in a lot of the smaller communities who have petitioned this House, who have gone on public radio, television, raising the issue of health care in aboriginal communities. Look at where we are today. I feel that after this formation of a 19 seat Assembly, we are going to have some very dire times still ahead for the small rural aboriginal communities. We will be 20 years back to where we were when you had appointed a commission for representing the government of the Northwest Territories from Ottawa. Because it is the same concept, you can take Yellowknife or you can take Ottawa. It is the same mentality that is always going to be there.

Talk about developing programs and services in our communities and our regions and what I see happening with this bill is that when will those issues come to this table to be debated regarding the economic benefits, negotiated contracts and policies, housing initiatives, the rural communities will be outvoted every time on any issues. Easy. They will not have the ability to deal with rural issues and vote on it and have the support behind you to get them through because the resources will all be based in the larger centres.

I, for one, feel the aboriginal community will pull themselves together. Maybe now it is time for aboriginal people to really stand up for themselves and pull away from the central government and develop the regional institutions of government and fund and get away from the notion that they support a strong central government and start supporting strong regional government because, at the end of the day, that is the only place I see you getting anything. This bill, the way it sits right now, will drive a wedge between those aboriginal communities, the rural communities and the urban centres because of numbers. It is such a drastic change in numbers and the biggest impact that is going to be felt is going to be in the smaller rural communities. I think we have to look at differences between those communities to say, "Where are you going to be after the 14th Assembly?" Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. General comments. Now perhaps I could ask Mr. Krutko to take the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Good afternoon. We are dealing with Bill 15. We are under general comments, Committee Report 2-13(7). General comments, Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the recent hearings on Bill 15, I also chose not to participate or to participate in the writing of the report that is before us today. I would apologize to anyone who is offended by that, by my refusal to participate. However, Mr. Chairman, I still believe that my refusal to participate was a correct decision. I believe that the Standing Committee on Government Operations made a decision to have public hearings and tried to do the impossible. The simple fact is, Mr. Chairman, the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories made a decision that we as a legally constituted Legislative Assembly of all peoples of the Northwest Territories had to comply with. The government, based on its own legal advice, decided not to appeal that decision. We knew this before the committee started the public hearings into Bill 15. Once the NWT Court of Appeal refused to grant intervenors the leave to appeal, the options available to the committee to effect change to Bill 15 were minimal.

Mr. Chairman, we have no choice but to comply with Justice de Weerdt's ruling. I understood that then and I understand it now, so that is why I chose not to participate. I did not see any merit in going to public hearings to receive input and ideas into something that we could not change, and I could not in good conscience spend tax dollars on public hearings which, as I said, would not influence the outcome of the decision. I sat in this Legislative Assembly for close to four years, and what I hear from the leaders in the communities, what I hear from people in the Northwest Territories, are more concerns about having financial and personnel resources available to take care of their medical needs and their educational needs. That is where I hear community leaders talking about putting resources.

The democratic principles that led Justice de Weerdt to make his decision are based on the model of one person, one vote, with all votes being equal in value. This principle is fundamental to democracies throughout the world. These same democratic principles are used to elect leaders in the communities in aboriginal organizations. Mr. Chairman, as an MLA, I have learned to listen to both sides of an argument and make realistic decisions based on the information provided. I will still continue to do that. Mr. Chairman, I believe that I have more faith in residents of the Northwest Territories than some of my colleagues do. I believe that people in the territories understand the democratic principles and the rights that are granted to all citizens with the passage of this bill are also granted to people who are complaining about a power shift. These democratic principles are tried and proven, and they will protect each and every person in the Northwest Territories.

Regarding a political solution, Mr. Chairman, I believe that this House had the opportunity to provide a political solution and chose not to do so. I personally am not interested in receiving any criticism for a court decision doing something that this House was not able to do, and I share a part of that responsibility as should every Member of this Legislative Assembly share the responsibility in the court having to do what this House was not able to do. I will have further comments as the debate continues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Henry. General comments. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, like some others have already said, I had not planned on making general comments. I think that there are so many things that a person could take the time to address as contained in this report under general comments that we could be here a

long time. My main concern is that there not be any misunderstanding with respect to where I as a Member stand with regard to some of the events that have taken place and some of the comments that have been made. Someone has suggested here today that as a Member who also did not participate in the public hearings, this could have been viewed as contempt for the smaller communities. I want to say that I did not personally choose to participate in the hearings, I did not want to spend that much time doing that. I have a fairly large riding, and as every Member in this House knows, we spend a lot of time here in Yellowknife and a lot of time away from our constituencies. I felt that my time was best spent talking to my constituents through various forums and getting up to date with them on not only this issue of electoral boundaries but many other issues and I valued that time very much that I was able to spend at home this summer. It was not intended as a reflection.

I have had the opportunity as well to sit on the Constitutional Working Group for the last several years, and to be perfectly honest, it has been kind of frustrating. We have gone out to community consultation through that process as well and have had quite limited response from people on the issues of representation. It was my prediction that we would have limited input through this round of community consultation as well, and I think for the most part that has proved to be the case. However, that does not diminish that the people, the other members of Government Operations who went out certainly had the right to do that, and the people who attended made their comments. Opinions are good. Input is wonderful. I just feel that when people say that the voices of those people are not heard, then I have to wonder if their Members are not speaking up for them in this Legislature. I feel very strongly that it is my job as much as I can to make sure the voices of my constituents are heard through my position here in the Legislative Assembly.

Through the CWG and now through this process, people may have their own opinions, but I have tried to be as creative and as accommodating as possible when it comes to ideas and solutions. I look back now to the report of the Electoral Boundaries Commission that came to this House. I remember that day very distinctly. I was late. I came in just as the vote was being made, I was just in time to make comments. I had been caught up in weather on the drive back. Many times I have reflected back to that day. I voted against giving Yellowknife any additional seats, knowing full well that there was a threat of a court challenge. I was doing so in response to the community leaders who had spoken out in Hay River against changing the status quo of 14, and if I could turn back the clock now, I would certainly have voted differently and would have tried to address the size of the ridings in Yellowknife on our own, through our own political remedy, as opposed to going to the courts. If that had happened and if Yellowknife residents had been satisfied, there would have been no Friends of Democracy and there would have been no appeal to the courts. We would not be facing two MLAs in Hay River, which is another thing for the record. Although the community of Hay River, if Bill 15 passes, will be receiving two MLAs, I want to say that I have not heard one single voice of support for that concept in Hay River. Not one person has come up to me and said, Jane, I think we need two MLAs, I am really happy that Bill 15 is going to proceed and we are going to have them. If there could have been a way to address the situation in Yellowknife without implicating Hay River and Inuvik, I think it would have been all the better, but now we are bound by these numbers and this percentage. As I said, I now dearly wish that we had dealt with this ourselves before we had to be forced into a remedy.

The 14 Member proposal and the 15 Member proposal put forward by some Members were not acceptable to Hay River either, because in re-jigging the ridings, it looked like the only way we could do that would have been to take quite a substantial number of constituents out of our riding and put them into an adjoining riding, and we could not do that either, so it came down to an issue of the lesser of two evils. I have to support the 19 Member model, the 19 Member proposal as proposed in Bill 15. This is the way we are going to address it for now. As I said, I have been trying to think of ways that we could diminish the impact of the fears out there about the shift in the balance of power. I think that some of the comments that are being made that are scaring people are worthy of some kind of response or rebuttal, because I think that some of the projections, or anticipations, are rather wildly overestimated. For example, the shift in this Legislature between aboriginal and non-aboriginal Members makes the assumption that none of the new five Members will be aboriginal, and I think that is an erroneous assumption. I think that very likely from Hay River and from Inuvik and probably Yellowknife as well, with the large aboriginal constituency here, you would see aboriginal Members included in that increased number.

I also think it is erroneous to assume that urban communities and Members representing urban communities are necessarily going to band together for any kind of efforts to use that power base and those numbers to in any way negatively affect the small communities. I know that in the past there has been a majority in the House of Members from larger centres. That is the way the population pans out and that is the way it works in democracy. I have never been a part of any conversation or heard of any effort since I have been in this Assembly in the last four years where larger communities wanted to get together and do anything that would prohibit development in the smaller communities. I do not think that is a natural alliance. I do not think that it is there. Certainly your larger regional centres like Fort Simpson, Fort Smith, Hay River and Inuvik, have some things in common as larger communities, but I do not think there is as much to fear about urban communities versus rural communities. I do not see that actually coming to something that people should be worried about.

As far as the balance now between aboriginal and non-aboriginal Members in the Legislature, I think there are two ridings in the North which are very close and very much on the verge of being over that 25 percent average as well. I think that sometime in the near future we may see an expansion of the Legislature again to accommodate those which are predominantly rural and aboriginal ridings. I think there is much to be lost when we make remarks and take positions that are counter to pursuing unity and working together in the west. I agree with Mr. Krutko's comments from earlier that I think we all had high hopes for the west, and I think we have a responsibility as leaders to not say and do things which will tear down the prospects of that working together in that relationship in the future. For that reason, I will be looking forward to speaking to the recommendations that the committee has brought forward and, in any way possible, being as flexible and as accommodating as possible to make sure that people's concerns are alleviated. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. General comments. Mr. Rabesca.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too, I guess, have had the chance to make a tour at the community levels. We have heard a lot of very interesting subjects. I certainly would like to appeal to my colleagues to give good, long thought to this recommendation that we are making hoping that they will be able to support us. Certainly there is great animosity within the communities we have visited, including my home community. Making a Member's statement the other day, I made an illusion as to what might happen in the future if the bill passes on as it is, and that it was going to be a dark day in the history of the Northwest Territories. Making some illusion to my Member's statement today too, regarding the same issue surrounding it, my intention was to give a compliment to the Government of Canada, the federal government, and the territorial government as well. I certainly believe that both governments are obligated to work with aboriginal people that they serve. Certainly, they do it well to a certain extent. In most cases, I guess, aboriginal people do not agree with them. However, overall they are well in line with what they are mandated to do.

The reason why I made my Member's statement today regarding both the territorial government and federal government living up to their obligations and then believing that most of the other smaller communities and including specifically the city of Yellowknife, I guess, are not in tune or in line to work with the rest of the government, although they are a municipal government. I assume they are not totally interested in aboriginal issues or supporting it in any way. I feel that they are out there just more or less for power grabs or giving more power to the city of Yellowknife.

In our travels into the communities, I heard one time or another that some Member said that maybe the extra seats that the city of Yellowknife are acquiring through the courts, are not justifiable. It should not be. They felt that maybe the extra power should be given to the City of Yellowknife as to the aldermen, not to the extra Member, to the City of Yellowknife. I kind of believe it too, but I guess after the court ruling I guess it is not going to be likely to happen. I, along with the other aboriginal descent as I promise, I support the aboriginal intervenors such as the Metis Nation and the Dene Nation because they are my own current organization that I belong to. I certainly had to support them. That is the reason why I have defended them to a certain extent and then I came along with the committee to listen to their views out into the communities. After saying that, knowing all the comments and the pressures that we have been getting from here, and what was expressed here in this House, we certainly do not really come from our own personal point of view. It certainly has come from the people that we do represent. I, for one, do not feel that I am just out here just to represent my own personal feelings. Certainly, on behalf of the aboriginal groups out there and the organization, the last four years that I have sat here, and I have voted, freely the way I wanted, in some cases I must have voted against the government. In some cases I did not side with my colleagues as well.

However, in consultation with my community leaders such as the community chiefs and the community municipal governments, with proper consultation with those people, that is where I did my voting so that, like I said, the decision that I come to or make some conclusion to, is not simply coming from myself but actually right from the community. Like I said, I do not really speak only on my personal beliefs, but I more or less rely solely on the community representations that I have been assigned to. With that, like I said earlier on, I was just hoping that since the aboriginal organization tried their best to appeal the structure of this whole Electoral Boundaries Commissions Report and mandate, but since that is not going to be likely, so I guess with the tour that we have made, we came out with a few recommendations and then the hope that since most of the territorial government seems to be agreeing with us, and I hope that most of our colleagues will be able to accept the recommendation as we present it to you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Rabesca. Are there any other general comments? Mr. Erasmus, can you proceed with your motions.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories develop a work plan with clear timelines of the negotiation of a political accord with NWT aboriginal governments for review by the Standing Committee on Government Operations by September 1st, 1999.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The government and the aboriginal governments had, some time ago, wanted to develop a political accord along with the federal government. We actually passed a motion in this House that this should occur. It was supposed to have been completed by now, but for one reason or another, one of them being, of course, that the federal government said that they did not want to be involved. This has not occurred to date. I was supposed to be involved in negotiating, helping to put together a political accord, but I have come to realize that there is very little sense for me to be involved in this because there does not seem to be the will, on the other side of the table, other side of the hall here, to complete this. There has been very little support provided to the Aboriginal Summit to get this done. We have only had one meeting and really, the government has kind of taken off on their own, so they may as well continue on their own.

It is imperative that a protocol be developed and for that reason, we are making this motion. The protocol is needed to go along with Bill 15, although, of course, it is not a companion document, but it should go almost hand in hand so that there is some method for the aboriginal governments to work with this government on policies and various issues like that. But the problem is that there does not seem to be a clear plan or a clear timeline in which to achieve this political accord. If there is, we have not been provided with it. What we are asking now is that the government actually develop a work plan with clear timelines and to provide us with that by September 1st so that we can see what is being done and what is being proposed to be done. Thank you.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am in support of this motion. We did pass a motion in this House, as has been referenced earlier, that we work towards a political accord with the aboriginal groups of the Northwest Territories. I must comment, however, that we have been in several meetings, and I have not seen a lot of progress. I am not sure that it is the total fault of this government that, that is the case. Certainly, I think there is a desire, from what I have seen on our government, to proceed with the political accord and I believe that it does need some priority. In the scheme of things of some of some of the recommendations coming forward, this is one that I can support. Thank you.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Antoine.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, as indicated, I will be making remarks on every one of the recommendations that the committee is putting forward. As a result, Madam Chairperson, there has been a great deal of discussion, over the past several years, concerning the political accord between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the aboriginal governments. While the Members of this Assembly and Cabinet have consistently supported the negotiations of a political accord, previous negotiations have not met with success.

I am very familiar with this issue because early in my tenure as Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, I led negotiations on behalf of this government with members of the Aboriginal Summit on a statement of political relations. While several representatives of aboriginal governments initialled a draft agreement, we could never reach a final agreement that met the interests of all parties. More recently, Mr. Erasmus, Mr. Dent, and myself were tasked by Caucus to make another attempt at an accord with the Aboriginal Summit but still with no success. For this reason, the government has invested its time and resources, over the past several months, to build support for an intergovernmental forum. Such a forum would bring together representatives of the public, aboriginal governments to discuss issues of common interest. We are beginning to see support for this process built. In the spring, Dene chiefs passed a motion forming an intergovernment chiefs committee to pursue discussions on an intergovernment forum. In May, we met with the Dene chiefs in Yellowknife to discuss a vision for the Northwest Territories, as set out in the agenda for the new North.

We also discussed, in detail, the need for an intergovernmental process where all governments could sit together to discuss these issues. At the recent Dene National Assembly in Jean Marie River, we were encouraged to see the chiefs adopt another motion reaffirming their commitment to an intergovernmental process. We have met with representatives of other aboriginal governments over the past several months and are encouraged by the support that seems to exist for such a process. The Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has also been a strong proponent of such a process. It is through this multilateral process that the government would prefer to pursue the negotiations of a political accord and other arrangements that better clarify the ongoing relationships between public and aboriginal governments in the Northwest Territories. On that basis, the government is prepared to provide a work plan setting out our views as one participant in the intergovernmental process concerning the negotiations of a political accord. Mahsi, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Just before we have any more comments on the motion -- I should have done this before -- I would like to recognize Sue Cooper, who is with the Nunavut Legislative Assembly. She is the law clerk there, and she has joined us today at the table with her colleague, our law clerk, Ms. MacPherson. Welcome to the Assembly, Ms. Cooper.

--Applause

To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The committee had made a recommendation on page 15, section 11.6, in our report that Bill 15 be amended to provide for a sunset clause that would see the 19 Member Legislature repealed upon dissolution of the 14th Assembly. Rather than having a motion at this time to effect this recommendation, we will wait until the clause by clause consideration of Bill 15, at which time a motion to amend the bill to achieve this will be moved. I mention this simply to clarify the process that we intend to follow. Thank you.

Committee Motion: 34-13(7): Development Of A Workplan For A Political Accord With Aboriginal Governments
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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Would you please proceed.

Committee Motion 35-13(7): Supreme Court Legal Preference To Clarify Sections Of The Constitution And Charter Of Rights
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I move that this committee recommends that the Government of the Northwest Territories urge the federal government to commence a legal reference without delay before the Supreme Court of Canada;

And further, that the court be requested to clarify the interpretation of section 25 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, in relation to other provisions of the Charter and the Constitution of Canada, and in particular, section 3 of the Charter;

And furthermore that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide the Standing Committee on Government Operations with a proposed question to be provided to the federal government by October 1, 1999.

Committee Motion 35-13(7): Supreme Court Legal Preference To Clarify Sections Of The Constitution And Charter Of Rights
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.