This is page numbers 721 - 753 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I happen to know that there are several units sitting in Fort Rae empty, and one is valued at $160,000, I believe. If it was selling in Yellowknife, you probably could not get $50,000 for it. I would like to know, how do these people arrive at their prices? How do they come up with their prices?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would have to ask the Member to provide us with the specifics of the units of which he speaks. We could then provide him that detailed information. Typically an appraiser will use a combination of factors, the replacement cost or a market assessment, and there may be other factors as well. I would have to know the specific unit, and then I could endeavour to provide the Member with the mechanism or the methodology by which the value is set.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On this page there have been 11 units already transferred to Fort Simpson plus another five coming up. Is that correct?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, no, the units transferred to the Housing Corporation April, 1996, to the present include those that we are discussing today.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 734

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can we have an indication of when these other ones were transferred, in Norman Wells and Fort Simpson?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Mr. Chairman, we do not have the exact dates for the previous transfers with us in the House. We would be happy to provide that information in writing to the Member forthwith.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, how does the government determine how long these units should stay out there for sale? It is saying that some of these have been transferred since 1996. Why were some transferred right away and there are still some that have not been sold and have not been transferred yet?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It could be that we have had expressions of interest in some houses from individuals. We feel that there may be a chance to sell them. If we can sell a house rather than transferring it and not getting the revenue, we will try and do that for as long as we think is reasonably possible. There could be land issues that have to be solved before the unit could be sold. There may be offers pending, as I said. We have offers pending on 30 units right now

in the Northwest Territories. There are a number of reasons why things do not happen at the same speed in all communities. Again, without referring to a specific unit, it would be difficult for me to answer why one had sold and one had not.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From this page that I have here, I cannot tell which communities still have units outstanding. I would like to have a list of that. The other thing I would like to know is, how does this government propose to rectify the unfair allotment of units that has occurred, so that all the communities can get a similar amount of allotted units, like the 11 to Fort Simpson and the eight to Norman Wells.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the Member's first question, I do not have the information about the location of the remaining staff housing units with me, but we will certainly provide that very quickly to the Members. On the second question, I do not think that the government agrees that it has been an unfair allocation. I would have to wait for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation to bring forward a paper to address that if he felt that this was unfair. As I said in an earlier answer to the Member, Mr. Chairman, I am not convinced that it is proper to tie together allocations for social housing and for home ownership. It is two different groups that typically qualify for those programs.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We are discussing Supplementary Appropriation, No. 2, under executive operation and maintenance. Your directorate is -$42,000.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is only so much money in the Housing Corporation's budget to meet the housing need of the community. In community A you have staff houses out on the market that cannot sell. In community B you have staff housing out on the market that cannot sell. In both cases they transfer the staff housing to the Housing Corporation. In community A they renovate that housing with their housing program dollars and sell it to the homeowner who can afford to pay $32 a month plus operations and maintenance. Their public housing need stays the same. The list stays the same. That is what their allocation was based on, a combination of their public housing need and the housing need survey. In community B they allocated to the housing authority, and they keep it for public housing stock. They do not have to spend any of their program money to renovate it or meet a need. It increases the needs that are met. I agree with your Staff Housing Policy. It is a good policy to get rid of them. I agree with how you allocate units. It is fair. It has always been fair.

When you look at them both and you combine them, then all of a sudden it becomes unfair. One is from FMBS and one is from the Housing Corporation, but when you combine the two, you are meeting extra needs in the community on your social housing programs. All of them are social housing programs. Whether it is a public house, EDAP, down payment assistance or whatever program it is, they are there. That has happened. I know it. When our government goes to sell those units, the price is at one price. It is from their appraiser plus ten percent below, and that is the price they pay. When they cannot sell it then, they turn it over to the Housing Corporation, and they can meet the community's need by renovating it to bring it up to standards because it is 20-some years old, so that it is energy efficient and people can afford to run. They use their money that is allocated to that community to meet housing needs, because they have met a housing need by renovating that unit. Then they give it to the client on that program where they go to the bank and get so much and make payments of only what they can afford. That is how it is met, and that is all Housing Corporation money.

You see how the two policies should work hand in hand. They are both good policies, but they should work hand in hand to ensure that no community gets extra social housing needs met where other communities are not given equal access or fair access to that same thing. Do you understand the concern, Mr. Minister?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While I have heard the comments of Members today, I believe that as this is presented to you, it does follow our existing policy. I will commit to Members to discuss with the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation whether or not we need to review our policies. That is my commitment today, to follow up on this issue with the Minister, discuss how FMBS policies in terms of transfer of units to communities or to the Housing Corporation may be looked at in light of other Housing Corporation policies. We will take another look at that, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

July 29th, 1999

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Members do not have recourse or much recourse when it comes to the system we work in. The only thing that Members are allowed to do is recommend and delete from the budgets, if they can carry a motion. Hearing what the Minister said, I think he truly understands what the concern is, and he is taking action. He is going to do something about it. When Mr. Roland spoke just recently, what Mr. Roland said was that they are doing a new housing needs survey this year. This may create an imbalance at this present time of how housing units are allocated, and it may have created an imbalance before. I do not know. The government is moving to rectify it, because Mr. Roland, through the Housing Corporation, is doing a new needs survey, so these houses will be dispatched in those communities and they will be taken into consideration during the needs survey. That is how it is going to happen so I have no problem with it. The other thing the two of you should address is how those two policies should work together, that is it, and you have committed to that so it is straightforward. I thank them.