Mr. Ootes. Comments and questions. General comments. Mr. Erasmus.
Debates of Sept. 9th, 1999
This is page numbers 41 - 72 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 8th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was information.
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, am in favour generally of this bill as has been indicated by my colleagues, Mr. Dent and Mr. Ootes. The bill will take effect for the next Assembly, the 14th Assembly, and it should make things a lot simpler of those Members. I know that when we took office I was quite surprised with the amount of money that we were making because I too was a member of the public at one time. I read the newspaper reports. I thought people made huge amounts of money and although some people still think that the money we make is a lot of money, I suppose it is, it is nowhere near the amount of money that people think that MLAs make. That is simply because of the reporting procedures by members of the press to continually, for one reason or another, add up all the office expenses, transportation expenses, constituency assistant's expenses, and everything else and roll it into one. It makes it seem as though it is part of your salary.
I know that I was quite surprised when I learned that I think the former Member from the Eastern Arctic was credited to making something like $170,000. I think half of that was for his transportation to and from his constituency. Not half, but a great amount.
Hopefully, this will make things simpler and a lot easier to understand for the general public. I know it will certainly make it a lot easier for the MLAs who will now receive the same amount of money every two weeks, the same as all our employees receive a cheque every two weeks and that is what they make. In that way, it will make thinks a lot easier for the next group of MLAs.
One thing I may not necessarily agree with, it does not sit well with me, is the fact that some MLAs sit on more committees than others and may work a lot more than other MLAs but they will not necessarily be paid for that extra work. Sometimes there is a fair amount of work that has to be done on bills and those types of things, particularly the Social Programs Committee. They had to deal with 62 percent of the budget, or whatever, and there were an awful lot of meetings involved. Although it is the case that those people who sit on more committees than others will not be remunerated for those extra meetings, I am in favour of this new system because it makes is simpler for everybody, particularly, for the reporting.
Also, Mr. Chairman, the Conflict of Interest Review Panel came back with several recommendations. I particularly like the fact that once the Conflict Commissioner determines that there are enough grounds to warrant an inquiry, then he or she directs an inquiry be started. The Commissioner of the Northwest Territories then appoints a sole adjudicator, which is a totally separate person from the Conflict Commissioner, so there is no apprehension of bias. There are two different parties that will be doing the process now and I like that. I think that a lot of other people will like that process as well.
As well, we have indicated in the conflict provision whose legal counsel will be paid for and that type of thing. That clarifies that area. In the past, I do not think it was as clear so a lot of people argued about this and that. This now clearly spells it out. I think it is a lot better. It doesn't matter which way it goes, as long as it is clearly spelled out. I think it helps clarify the issue.
The way that the system will work in the future, I do not think that you will really need legal counsel anyway. The new system will help make things simpler and easier to understand.
Mr. Chairman, again I just want to reiterate that I am in favour of this bill. I realize that perhaps people thought it should have happened sooner, but there has been a lot of things on our plate. I think that putting new things in place for yourself are very difficult things to do. I think that the best thing we could do for the next Legislative Assembly is to pass this now so that they do not have to worry about it being the first thing that they have to do when they get here. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Jane Groenewegen Hay River
Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think that this Bill is long overdue with respect to MLA's compensation. There was a commission at the outset of our term of office and there were some recommendations made at that time. Now I am pleased to see that some of those recommendations are being acted on and we are making a more streamlined system in place for those coming back to the 14th Assembly. It was not only difficult for the public to understand the former compensation system, I think it was difficult for the MLA's to really understand it, as well, because it was rather convoluted. I think this is better.
I agree with Mr. Erasmus, to some extent, that some people may have a heavier workload and they will not be remunerated for it. Hopefully, we will get people in here who are willing to work and work hard and, not only look after just the interest of their constituents, but also serve on the committees and look at the broader issues of the budget in the NWT as a whole. I think that the remuneration that is being proposed is fair. I think that it is difficult for people to really get a good understand of what is involved in doing this job until you are here and have done it.
I think the media has done us somewhat of a disservice in their reporting in the past about compensation for MLAs and this has already been alluded to by previous speakers here today. To suggest that travel to and from one's constituency, for example, is somehow a benefit that should be rolled into the total package of your pay, is not a fair comment. It certainly does create an exaggerated perception in the public which is not necessary to do. I think that what is proposed now is fair. Having done this job for the last four years, it is something that I can support having seen it from the inside.
With respect to the changes to the conflict of interest legislation, I think that I can safely say that no one is happier than I am that some of these rather vague areas in the legislation have been more clearly defined. I think we found out the hard way, and we found out through a fairly thorough test of legislation, that there were areas that needed to be more clearly defined. I believe that this change does do that.
I cannot say that I agree with all of the changes, again speaking from first hand experience. I will just quickly list some of the things that I do not agree with. I do not agree that any MLA should have access to unlimited resources of this government in their defence. I think that how much they are expected to pay, how much expect to receive, should have a cap on it. I think the act says reasonable costs. I do not know what reasonable is. It will be determined by, I guess, the Management Services Board at the time. I do not think that unlimited access to government funds, particularly in the case where the person is found guilty, is an acceptable expenditure of government funds, tax payer's money. I object to that strongly and I want to be recorded as such.
As for the complainant not receiving any support for legal costs when a complaint is lodged, now that the system after the complaint is lodged is somewhat more defined, and hoping that we will never have another complaint of the magnitude that we have seen this government spend money on recently, I think that should be alright for it to go to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and then to an adjudicator if an inquiry is required.
If the system works, there should not have to be that much involvement from the complainant after the complaint is laid. That is how it should work and, like I said, I hope we are never faced with a situation like we have been through where there is a complaint that encompasses a magnitude of the issues that the last one did. I think that was flawed. I do not think that an enquiry can always be an non-adversarial process. I do not think that it is necessarily even an effective process of an enquiry when there is no opposing counsel present.
I think Anne Crawford stated in her report that she had never heard so many lies and half truths as were presented in that last inquiry. I am telling you that opposing counsel would have sewn up that problem because people would not have been allowed to get away with it as they did this last time. I am pleased with the progress that this bill makes towards making it a better system and will be supporting the bill. Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair David Krutko
Thank you Mrs. Groenewegen. General comments? Detail? Agreed? Clause by clause. We are dealing with Bill 3, Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, page 1, clause 1. Agreed?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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