This is page numbers 101 - 132 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. The Chair recognizes Mr. McLeod.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

June 22nd, 2000

Page 130

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have quite a few questions, but I will be asking the majority of them when we go into detail.

I have some general comments and some concerns I wanted to raise. As you know, the Deh Cho is a territory that is working hard to enter into negotiations. There are a lot of problem areas.

One of the big concerns that I have been faced with since my election is dealing with the Cameron Hills. This is an area that the communities in the Deh Cho, in my riding, are still disputing over whose traditional lands it falls under and there is certainly a lot of overlap. But it is part of the Deh Cho proposal and it is an area that is going to be negotiated and there is discussion on a land use process and also land protection in that area.

However, a big problem that we have been having and experiencing has been with your department on issuance of timber permits. Up to recently, there was really no inventory, and yet permits were issued...I think there were six permits issued this year. When I raised a question about consultation, I cannot find any. I think your consultation amounts to putting an ad in the paper.

So I have to get clarification. Is that what it means? Is there really a good measure of what the inventory is in the Deh Cho?

And now that the permits are issued, all of the logging is pretty well done. The complaints that I am getting are that there is no monitoring. The people who are doing the logging are doing whatever they seem to want to do. I want to ask a question regarding the monitoring area. Have you had any reports regarding the abuse and the butchering that is going on in Cameron Hills? Have any one of you gone up to take a look? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Handley.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to Cameron Hills, that one we are committed to not issuing anymore permits in there without community consultation and community agreement, that it is reasonable and there is the allowable cut or timber there to make it possible.

With regard to the question, have we been in there. I personally have not been there in a while. Mr. Bob McLeod, the deputy minister, has been in there, but again not for some time. We do have staff who have very carefully monitored the cutting operations in that area and they are in there when there is harvesting going on, practically on a weekly, if not a daily, basis.

We do monitor it more closely than maybe the communities feel we do. We know how much timber is being taken out of there and where it is going. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. McLeod.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Thank you. I am glad that you have taken a position that you do not want to issue any more permits. I still have a problem with what you consider consultation. Maybe you could elaborate on that.

I do feel that if it were not for some of the senior staff to go into the Cameron Hills...there are complaints from the communities and actually from some of your own staff. I think there is a problem up there. Maybe it has not gone up as far as your level.

Another area that I am concerned about, and Mr. Krutko has raised it a number of times, is the oil and gas issue and lack of available dollars to do oil and gas training and planning.

In the Deh Cho and the communities that I represent, I am seeing a real push for more oil and gas training. Some of the communities have gone as far as hiring oil and gas coordinators. They are doing a lot of work in the area of planning; developing a land use plan, impact benefits agreements and anything related to oil and gas, but I am not seeing any money flowing from this department. I have seen Mr. Ootes indicate that he is going to be committing, I think, $500,000 to oil and gas training, which is fine but it is not enough, and that is for across the board in the Territories. What is happening in the communities now is we are having to go to your department and dip into the BDF funding, which is not a great amount to start with. It is really taking away from any investment in the areas of small business.

So I am just wondering, what is your department planning to do to try to help and assist the communities with planning and training and preparation for oil and gas, that we know is all coming down the tubes?

Also, the other component that has to be addressed is the education about oil and gas. When you go to the communities and start talking about oil and gas, it is a real foreign issue and people do not understand the process. People do not understand what it is all about. I do not think it is reasonable to expect the community leaders to be able to stand up there and explain the whole process. It is going to take some commitment from this government to do that. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Handley.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 130

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman. First of all, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development did provide a fair bit of financial support at the beginning when the one venture at the Hay River Reserve was being set up. I think they are very appreciative of our support on that one. I meet with them fairly regularly. I met with them when I was in Calgary, so we do support them and any of these kinds of ventures very much.

In terms of training and so on, we will commit to working closely with the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to ensure that there are maximum amounts of training dollars available. We will endeavor to do that over this coming year and future years.

In terms of public awareness about oil and gas and the whole industry, we, through the Mackenzie Valley Development Committee, have been doing a lot of that. They have been out to quite a few communities and doing consultations, probably never enough, but the only thing we can do is just continue on as we have time to do more and more of that, because I agree with you, it is very important. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. McLeod.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

To comment on the Mackenzie Valley Development Committee, I just had a round of constituency meetings and none of the communities had ever heard of this plan. I am sure they have not come to any of the communities in the Deh Cho.

One further comment I wanted to make, and the rest of my questions I will save for detail. Under the BIP program, we are running into a couple of problems on the Hay River Reserve. Because the reserve is close to the town of Hay River, it is being lumped in as part of the town of Hay River. So when they go get registered with BIP, they mark the community down and it is marked as Hay River. On the reserve, there is no bank and services.

They cannot use their land as part of the security for loans. So lending agencies will not go on the reserve. Because they are BIP'ed the same as Hay River, they have a hard time getting grants. When they do qualify for a grant, it is always considered market disruption because they are considered part of Hay River, but they are not part of Hay River. They are their own community.

I think that is something that really has got to be looked at. When I did my round of meetings in the communities, there was a real concern of that in the South Slave and the Deh Cho, but in your department it would be considered part of the South Slave.

-- Laughter

When it comes to BDF funding, there is very little for the small communities. Last year, the BDF funding ran out of money. The program ran out of money at the end of June. So when you start looking at it, you say why is this happening? The pot of money that comes to the region was very small, and the money is being gobbled up by the bigger communities. I think that is a problem.

There are two points I am making here: the problem with the reserve and also the BDF funding. There has to be a look at reallocating some of the funds so the smaller communities have a chance to get at it.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Chair recognizes the clock, but I will allow Mr. Handley to answer the question.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will keep my answer short. What we have done is we have tried to treat the Hay River Reserve in a way that is to their advantage. We will go by the communities' advice. If they want to be treated as a separate community from Hay River, then we will do that. There is a disadvantage, of course, because then they will lose. They are not included as part of Hay River for any jobs or opportunities that exist in the town. They would have a disadvantage over local businesses. There are advantages and disadvantages.

If they are treated under BDF as a separate community, they are a level three as compared to a level one with Hay River. It is really up to the community. We will take the community's advice they are giving you or us. If they want to be treated separately, we will do that. If they want to be part of Hay River, we will do that. We are trying to work it to their advantage.

In terms of the other question about the amount of BDF money, yes, the money is very limited. We run out very early. We are suffering the consequences of not having an EDA agreement and the limited dollars we have, our BDF money, is just a few hundred thousand in each region and goes very quickly. We will make every effort we can to get an EDA and get more money into BDF. Thank you.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Handley. General comments? The Chair recognizes Mr. Krutko.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order and is not debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. We will rise and report progress. I would like to thank the Minister and his witnesses for appearing before the committee.

Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 20: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 131

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The House will come back to order. Item 21, report of committee of the whole. Mr. Delorey.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 131

Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Bill 1, Appropriation Act 2000-2001, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 131

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Do we have a seconder for the motion? The Chair recognizes the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta. The motion is in order. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 22, third reading of bills. Item 23, orders of the day. Mr. Clerk.

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Page 131

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, meeting of the Standing Committee on Social Programs immediately after adjournment this afternoon, and for Monday morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight.

Orders of the day for Monday, June 26, 2000:

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Returns to Oral Questions
  5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  6. Oral Questions
  7. Written Questions
  8. Returns to Written Questions
  9. Replies to Opening Address
  10. Replies to Budget Address
  11. Petitions
  12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  14. Tabling of Documents
  15. Notices of Motion
  16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  17. Motions
  18. First Reading of Bills
  19. Second Reading of Bills
  20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  21. - Bill 1, Appropriation Act, 2000-2001

    - Committee Report 1-14(3), Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight Review of the 2000-2003 Business Plans and 2000-2001 Main Estimates

    - Committee Report 2-14(3), Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development Review of the 2000-2003 Business Plans and 2000-2001 Main Estimates

    - Committee Report 3-14(3), Standing Committee on Social Programs Review of the 2000-2003 Business Plans and 2000-2001 Main Estimates

  22. Report of Committee of the Whole
  23. Third Reading of Bills
  24. Orders of the Day

Item 23: Orders Of The Day
Item 23: Orders Of The Day

Page 132

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Monday, June 26, 2000 at 1:30 p.m.

-- ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 2:15 p.m.