This is page numbers 1105 - 1142 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was justice.

Topics

cost Of Accreditation, And Midwifery Education
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

September 30th, 2003

Page 1132

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

Many witnesses spoke of the need for midwives in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Geoff Clarke, a nurse, and recently accredited midwife, spoke to committee about the prohibitive costs of seeking midwifery accreditation in Canada.

Mr. Clarke practiced midwifery for a number of years in his native Australia, but only recently became certified in Canada, after attending courses and writing exams in Manitoba.

He informed committee that the cost for a foreign midwife to gain accreditation in Canada averages between $12,000 and $15,000. The Stanton Territorial Health Board covered his costs, as it is currently doing for one other foreign midwife, but without this financial assistance, he and his colleague would not likely have taken the initiative to become certified in Canada.

Mr. Clarke spoke of Manitoba's difficulty filling and maintaining their 39 midwife positions, and warned that the Northwest Territories may face similar difficulties if it fails to adopt a proactive approach in recruiting and assisting foreign and domestic midwives.

The Midwives' Association of the NWT and Nunavut also stated they "would like to see the development of midwifery education programs in the future."

Of course, this requires that money be spent. This committee urges the government to make funds available so the required number of midwife positions may be filled.

The Minister informed committee of the department's current initiative to recruit six midwives from Australia, in order to help fill the 14 positions that are anticipated across the territory. The standing committee wishes the department success in this endeavor.

midwifery Advisory Committee
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1132

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

When the Minister and his department set about writing regulations, it is the committee members' hope they will take into consideration the comments of witnesses who have told us of the need for a midwifery advisory committee.

Ms. Becker, speaking on behalf of the Midwives' Association of the NWT and Nunavut, recommended that there be established "an advisory committee consisting of practicing midwives, representatives of the public, other health care professionals and departmental staff."

Ms. Paulette also made this point, as did the College of Midwives of British Columbia in their written submission, when they wrote "our experience in British Columbia has been that it is extremely valuable to have the input of professional midwives and government appointed public representatives."

conclusion
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1132

Bill Braden

Bill Braden Great Slave

The Standing Committee on Social Programs would like to thank those who attended the public consultations in Fort Smith, Hay River, Wha Ti and Yellowknife, and also those who made the effort to prepare written submissions for our consideration.

Bill 24 is an important piece of legislation that will enhance the services available to new and expectant families across the territory. It will also provide the guidance and support registered midwives' need to successfully offer their services. It assists in the development of integrated health care teams that are able to draw on various areas of expertise to provide superior health care services to our citizens.

This was one of the most satisfying legislative exercises this committee has undertaken. The Minister and his staff are to be commended for their professional and cooperative approach in ensuring the development of the best midwifery legislation possible.

In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Social Programs would like to thank the residents of Forth Smith, particularly Ms. Leslie Paulette and Ms. Gisela Becker, who have worked long and hard developing midwifery legislation. Their efforts will ultimately benefit all residents of the Northwest Territories.

Following clause-by-clause review of the bill, a motion was carried to report Bill 24 as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Speaker, my colleague, Mrs. Groenewegen, will continue with the balance of the report. Mrs. Groenewegen.

conclusion
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Bill 26: Youth Justice Actintroduction
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Standing Committee on Social Programs is pleased to report on Bill 26, Youth Justice Act.

Committee had the opportunity to listen to the presentations of interested citizens, and to read submissions from other citizens and organizations who were not able to attend committee's public hearings.

Members of the committee recognize that this legislation is important for the Northwest Territories, as the bill will align territorial legislation with the newly adopted federal legislation, the Youth Criminal Justice Act. The federal legislation provides the means for dealing with youths who are alleged to have committed Criminal Code offences or offences under federal legislation. Bill 26 will provide the means to deal with youths who are alleged to have committed offences under territorial enactments. Generally speaking, such offences will be less serious and it is important to have alternatives to formal court procedures available to communities.

issuesthe Need For Extrajudicial Measures
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

While conducting hearings in Wha Ti, the committee heard a passionate speech from Chief Charles James Nitsiza. Chief Nitsiza spoke of the difficulty that the youth of his community face when they are sent to correctional facilities away from their home community. "These young people...have been born here and have lived here, they know the cultural and traditional way of life. When you take these children out of the community they go through a very difficult time," he said.

Mr. Jimmy Nitsiza, another resident of Wha Ti, gave the committee an insight into how the youth criminal justice system can impact a family. He shared his family's story of having a son sent away, and stated, "maybe if the justice committee had the capacity to deal with minor crimes within the community...it would have been better for my family."

These concerned citizens spoke in favour of the extrajudicial measures introduced by this legislation. They believe that granting the judicial system a greater degree of flexibility to deal with youth is a more sensible approach than what is currently done, and the committee agrees.

community Involvement In Youth Justice
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

While in Wha Ti, the committee heard from three witnesses who felt community involvement was going to be the decisive factor in improvements to the youth justice system.

Ms. Mary Anne Jeremika, a social worker in Wha Ti, told the committee "unless people get involved, there is not much that can be done."

Mr. Jimmy Nitsiza and Ms. Carolyn Simpson, a justice of the peace and concerned citizen, told the committee that they looked forward to the opportunity for family and other youth to participate in the youth justice system.

The committee anticipates a stronger role for community involvement in the youth justice system if this bill is passed.

funds And Support For Youth Justice Committees
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

The committee has been advised by the Department of Justice that there are 24 youth justice committees operating in the Northwest Territories.

Members were concerned that there would be needless duplication if a separate entity known as a youth justice committee was established in communities, but members were assured by the department that justice committees would fulfill the role of youth justice committees when the need arose.

Several witnesses spoke of the need for funds to be directed towards the youth justice committees. Chief Nitsiza stated, "we need more money for the justice committee so that they can do more work...to refine and revise to make it better for our youth." Ms. Simpson and Major Karen Hoeft of the Salvation Army also pleaded for more funding for these committees.

When the committee met with Minister Allen on September 18th, members were pleased to hear that the Minister was aware of the need for extra funding for youth justice committees, and would readdress the issue in the new year.

The committee also heard from Ms. Simpson that training for youth justice committee members was an issue that needed attention. As when any new piece of legislation is brought forward, adequate training for those who will be administering the law is a necessity.

The committee brought this matter to the attention of the Minister, and was pleased that the Minister acknowledged that training of youth justice committee members was an issue to be addressed by the department.

Funding and training are not the only requirements for youth justice committees. Administrative support at the department level is also a necessity. Ms. Simpson informed the committee that the Wha Ti Justice Committee "have lost the Yellowknife Justice Committee coordinator; she moved...People come and go and I think that that is a hindrance to us in the community."

The committee believes that the Minister and his department must do all that is possible to maintain support for youth justice committees. The effectiveness of such community-based committees will depend largely on the training and support offered by the Department of Justice. With such involvement, it is hoped that experience will be gained by the youth justice committees which will benefit both youths and the communities in which they reside.

youth Program Funding
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Major Hoeft brought to the committee's attention the need for funding of youth programs, separate from funding of youth justice committees. "There are few resources in the Northwest Territories for youth who have issues dealing with addictions, behavioural issues, and sexual abuse," she said. Further, Ms. Hoeft stressed "we need to spend money when children are young. If we spend all our money on the community justice system, it's way too late."

The committee recognizes that the department must adequately fund youth justice committees, but every bit as necessary is money devoted to programs for younger children. Although the social return on these financial investments won't be immediate, communities will benefit in the long run when fewer youths come into conflict with the law.

equality Of Citizens
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

During the committee's consideration of this bill, members became concerned that the principle of equality among citizens may be jeopardized if access to youth justice committees is not the same for citizens in different communities. Members brought this concern to the attention of the Minister.

The Minister's staff admitted to the committee that equality is a concern when delivering any program in the territory, but the department felt that the benefits of offering youth justice committees outweighed the disadvantage that certain communities would face if they did not have access to a justice committee.

The Minister informed the committee that the onus is on communities to request justice committees, and that once a request is made, the department provide assistance in the establishment and operation of a committee.

The committee is pleased to learn that the department will be receptive to community requests for justice committees, and looks forward to witnessing the creation of such committees in all communities across the Northwest Territories.

annual Reports
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

The committee believes that annual reports from youth justice committees would be a useful device to help gauge their performance. Committee asked the department if annual reporting had been considered.

A member of the Minister's staff informed the committee that the department was in the process of developing an information system to collect data relevant to the performance of youth justice committees.

The committee will be pleased to view these reports on an annual basis.

"and Respond To"
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Major Hoeft brought to the attention of the committee Section 8(2)(c)(iv) which lists those characteristics that ought to be respected when measures are taken against young persons who commit offences, and instructs that "the needs of aboriginal young persons and young persons with special requirements" be further responded to.

Major Hoeft suggested to committee that the characteristics of gender, ethnic, cultural and linguistic differences listed in the legislation should also be responded to, as this suggested stronger consideration be given than if those characteristics were only respected.

The committee appreciated the rationale behind Major Hoeft's suggestion, and asked the Minister to explain the intent of the legislation's wording.

The Minister's staff informed the committee that the wording of 8(2)(c)(iv) mirrors exactly that of the Canadian Youth Criminal Justice Act. Further, it is important that the legislation in place in the Northwest Territories has the same principles as federal legislation. These same principles and philosophy must be applied to those who may be in conflict with territorial enactments as those who are dealing with Criminal Code or federal enactments.

The committee accepted the explanation provided by the Minister's staff, and sought no amendment to this section.

admission Of Guilt
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Major Hoeft shared her concern with members of the committee that a youth who appears before a youth justice committee will be obliged to admit guilt, thereby contravening the justice principle that an individual should not be forced to self-incriminate.

Members brought this concern to the attention of the Minister.

The Minister's staff assured the committee that any youth who come before a youth justice committee will not have to admit guilt, per se, but will have to "accept responsibility." From a legal perspective, accepting responsibility is not the same as admitting guilt.

The Minister's staff stated any youth unwilling to "accept responsibility" is under no obligation to appear before a youth justice committee, and could instead appear before a court. Youth justice committees are an option for youth who are prepared to accept responsibility and who prefer an alternative to court regarding consequences.

The committee was satisfied youth will be protected from self-incrimination under the new legislation, and did not seek an amendment.

legal Aid For Youth
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

The committee was informed by the department that youth always have the right to consult with legal counsel before deciding whether to appear before a youth justice committee or a court of law. This led committee to question whether youth have adequate access to legal aid.

The committee is waiting for a formal response from the department on whether or not legal aid is available to youth who become involved in the youth justice system and the option of extrajudicial measures.

The committee is seeking assurance from the department that youth have adequate access to legal aid at any stage of proceedings, and regardless of whether extrajudicial measures are invoked.

youth Under Age 12
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

The Youth Justice Act covers those youth between the ages of 12 and 17. Members of the committee are aware that youth under the age of 12 do become involved in criminal activity.

Members asked the Minister what considerations would be made for youths under the age of 12 who became involved in crime.

The Minister's staff informed members that the Youth Justice Act is not the appropriate legislative tool to deal with a young child who breaks the law. Other acts such as the Child and Family Services Act are better equipped to meet the needs of troubled youth under the age of 12.

Furthermore, the Minister's staff explained that coverage of 12 to 17-year-olds has a long-standing history in legislation, and there has been very little impetus to lower the age of inclusion.

The committee was satisfied that 12 years of age is an appropriate lower end for coverage by the Youth Justice Act and did not seek an amendment.

conclusion
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1134

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

The Standing Committee on Social Programs would like to thank the citizens who voiced their concerns for and appreciation of the Youth Justice Act, as well as those citizens and organizations who made the effort to prepare written submissions for consideration by the committee.

Bill 26 is an important piece of legislation that aligns territorial and federal law. It will allow community involvement in the sentencing of youth, and will provide greater flexibility in sentencing options for those who find themselves in conflict with territorial enactments.

In conclusion, the Standing Committee on Social Programs would like to extend particular thanks to the citizens of Wha Ti, and Major Karen Hoeft of the Salvation Army. Members of the committee developed a deeper appreciation for the importance of this bill from their passionate and informative presentations.

During clause-by-clause review of the bill, one amendment of a minor and non-substantial nature was agreed to.

Following the clause-by-clause review of the bill, a motion was carried to report Bill 26 as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

conclusion
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1136

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The chair now recognizes the honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Motion To Receive Committee Report 18-14(6) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1136

Brendan Bell

Brendan Bell Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to thank my colleagues, Mr. Braden and Mrs. Groenewegen, for helping me deliver the report. Mr. Speaker, that concludes the report of the Standing Committee on Social Programs on the review of Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act; Bill 24, Midwifery Profession Act; and Bill 26, Youth Justice Act. Therefore, I move, seconded by the honourable for Hay River South, that Committee Report 18-14(6) be received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Motion To Receive Committee Report 18-14(6) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1136

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Bell. We have a motion. The motion is in order. Is the House ready for the question?

Motion To Receive Committee Report 18-14(6) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1136

An Hon. Member

Question.

Motion To Receive Committee Report 18-14(6) And Move To Committee Of The Whole, Carried
Item 11: Reports Of Standing And Special Committees

Page 1136

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

The committee report is now received by the Legislative Assembly and moved into Committee of the Whole. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two items I would like to table. One is a press released dated August 15, 2003, entitled revised business incentive policy.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Frame Lake

The second is a package that has been going out to businesses in the North. It's entitled Contracting with the Government of the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Bill 19, Write-off of Debts Act, 2003-2003; Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004; and Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Safety Act, with Mr. Delorey in the chair.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1136

The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

I call Committee of the Whole to order. We have a number of items to discuss. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.