This is page numbers 1105 - 1142 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was justice.

Topics

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Clause 1.

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Schedule of debts written off, total, $162,433.72.

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Bill as a whole.

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Does the committee agree that Bill 19 is ready for third reading?

clause By Clause
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Bill 19 is now ready for third reading. I'd like to thank the Minister and his witness for appearing.

Okay, as previously agreed, we'll go on to review Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004. I'll call on the Minister for opening remarks on Bill 20. Minister Handley.

Bill 20: Forgiveness Of Debts Act, 2003-2004minister's Opening Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The purpose of the Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004, is to authorize the forgiveness of certain debts listed in a schedule to the act. Pursuant to section 25(1) of the Financial Administration Act, the forgiveness of a debt or obligation to the government exceeding $1,000 must receive Legislative Assembly approval. When a debt is forgiven, no further collection action shall be pursued.

The forgivenesses being proposed in this act will not require a new appropriation. Allowances for doubtful accounts were charged to an appropriation and at the time it was determined that the collection of the debts was considered unlikely.

The accounts being recommended for forgiveness are the result of bankruptcy, compromise settlements and/or public interest. In cases where a compromise settlement is reached the following factors have been considered:

  • • the possibility of future recoveries;
  • • the cost to continue legal actions; and
  • • the value of security. For example, do the personal guarantees hold a realizable worth.

Mr. Chairman, I'm prepared to answer Members' questions on these proposed forgivenesses.

Bill 20: Forgiveness Of Debts Act, 2003-2004minister's Opening Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. I call on the chairman of the standing committee, Mr. Roland.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

September 30th, 2003

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight reviewed Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004, on August 28, 2003. The committee would like to thank the Minister of Finance and his officials for presenting the bill.

This bill authorizes the forgiveness of debts in accordance with section 25 of the Financial Administration Act. This section requires an act be passed through the House for the forgiveness of debt or obligation owed to the government that exceeds $1,000. This act will forgive $952,881.09.

As the Minister explained, a debt forgiven when the government has decided that the collection of the debt is not possible and no further action will be taken to recover the debt, many accounts are forgiven as a result of bankruptcies and negotiated settlements.

Committee was told that forgiven debts do not require new appropriations. Allowances for doubtful accounts were previously charged to an appropriation when it was determined that collection was unlikely.

The original Bill 20 proposed the forgiveness of $1,071,413.47 in debts owed to the government. However, the government made last minute amendments to the bill that resulted in an adjustment of $952,881.09. Had this bill been considered as scheduled in the June session instead of the fall session of the Legislative Assembly, a number of debts would have been forgiven that would have required further adjustments after their collection. This also caused the committee to question just how exhaustive the collection process is.

The government explained that payments were received from clients that were not anticipated when the accounts were advanced for forgiveness recommendations, as all reasonable efforts had been expended. The new net amount reflects changes in circumstances to three accounts. One account was paid in full. Another account received an additional payment from a negotiated settlement. The third recommendation for forgiveness of debt was withdrawn as one of the principals did not receive an absolute discharge from bankruptcy as originally reported. Once all dividends, if any, are received and the remaining principal's bankruptcy is absolute, a new recommendation for forgiveness may be considered at a later date.

Committee members suggested that in the future the government should verify the findings of the bankruptcy trustee. Apparently the trustee informed the government in error that the client in question had been absolutely discharged from bankruptcy. The committee notes that if the original bill had passed in the June session, that client would have been prematurely absolved of his debt to this government.

Mr. Chairman, following the committee's review, a motion was carried to report Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004, to the Assembly as ready for Committee of the Whole. Additional comments or questions to Members may be posed as we proceed. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Does the Minister wish to bring any witnesses? Minister Handley.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Does the committee agree?

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witness in, please.

For the record, Minister Handley, could you introduce your witness, please?

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With me is Lew Voytilla, secretary to the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Thank you.

standing Committee On Accountability And Oversight Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Chair will open the floor to general comments. Mr. Krutko.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is around the area of bankruptcy. The legislation that we have that was followed in the Northwest Territories when someone files bankruptcy is very outdated compared to other jurisdictions such as Alberta. What we're seeing is there seems to be a trend that a lot of these people that have these outstanding debts have gone to Alberta and declared bankruptcy because they can get a better deal by filing for bankruptcy in Alberta than they would in the Northwest Territories.

I've raised this question many times in the House, in the previous 13th Assembly and now here again. I've talked to federal people and people who've been involved in the bankruptcy legislation and helping people with bankruptcy. They have a real problem when they come to the Northwest Territories to understand what's offered through the bankruptcy exemptions. Yet right next door in Alberta it seems like it's a pretty straightforward, stream-lined process.

I'd like to ask the Minister, what is this government doing to hopefully not start to see a trend where everyone that has a debt with this government is now going to go to Alberta to declare bankruptcy because they can get more of that debt written off and be able to have more security by way of holding household items? Have you looked at this and are you talking to our federal counterparts about amending our bankruptcy legislation so we do bring it in line with other jurisdictions such as Alberta?

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

general Comments
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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, it's a good point and it's one I'll have to take up with the Minister of Justice and he, I expect, would want to work with the federal government on this as well. Thank you.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

general Comments
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Does the Minister have any idea when this is going to happen and are we going to see it in the life of this government, or is this something that we can put forth by way of a recommendation to the new government coming in? We are at the 11th hour here and I don't realistically believe that we've been...I believe that this was one of the things we had on our wish list when we got elected to this government to look at something like that and today nothing is happening.

I'd just like to ask the Minister, how soon can you get back to us on this? Are we going to see any action on this or is this something that we have to pass on to the next government?

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.