This is page numbers 1105 - 1142 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was justice.

Topics

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, I will speak with the Minister of Justice today, if we have time, or in the morning. This is really an issue that will have to be dealt with through our Minister of Justice. Thank you.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Another area that I have concerns about in going through this process is that there are people being able to work out these negotiated settlements to the tune of $5,000 to forgive a debt of some $200,000, and I think that if that's the avenue that's going to be taken are we consistent? Did we offer that to other clients that we have out there who may have a similar predicament? They have a debt with the government and they can simply make a negotiated offer for pennies on the dollar and basically walk away from this. Yet we're going after students with student loans and saying sorry, we're going to continue to hound you for the rest of your days to recoup this student loan. Yet we're writing off hundreds of thousands of dollars to certain clients by simply negotiating a negotiated settlement with a minimum amount. I think that if we're going to be fair, let's be fair across the board to everyone, including students with student loans.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, we always attempt to get every penny that's owed to us. Every bad debt is a little bit different. They're all unique in their own way. Certainly we use the same criteria in arriving at compromised settlements with anyone who has debts with us. We look at what the possibilities are of getting some future recoveries from the individual. What's the cost of the legal action we might take in order to get that money back? Also, the value of any security we may have against the debt. Is it worth anything? We use the same criteria, but I have to say, every one of these settlements deals with a little bit different case. Thank you.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Are we, as a government, going to reform our whole collection system? To use an example, I have an elderly lady who has cancer who's been going through chemo treatment, she's stuck in arrears with housing and she's gone through a divorce with her husband. She's stuck holding the bag because the lease was in her name, yet her husband worked and he was making the majority of the income. He's no longer there and she's stuck with a large debt and no real means of paying it back. In order to get into housing, in most communities social housing is the only area you can get housing. Because of these arrears it has an effect on the thing. Technically speaking, it's not her fault that because of circumstance she finds herself with this debt, but there's no way this government will consider writing that off. Same thing with student loans.

I'd like to ask the Minister, are we looking at considering revamping our whole lending system or collection system or even write-off of debts to have an inclusive system that we look at everything from education grants to housing or loans and other grants and loans that are out there? That's what really ticks people off is, they know that there are millions of dollars being written off every year by this government by way of business grants and loans to businesses and people simply just get up and walk away and it's written off. But an elderly lady trying to raise a family, dealing with coping with a disease such as cancer and to have this over your head and the government saying, sorry, there's nothing we can do about it, you have to pay it back. So I'd just like to know, have you looked at reforming some of these types of write-offs in the whole government?

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Mr. Chairman, our policy is the same. We want to collect the money that we can. We want to do it in the same way, using the same criteria I just mentioned a few minutes ago, in each of the cases. So it's possible for anyone to attempt to reach a settlement and we would have to use our judgment whether or not that was a fair arrangement to get into whether there really is no way of being able to collect. It wouldn't matter if it was a student loan or housing arrears. The Housing Corporation has their own policy on collection of arrears.

I think in any kind of situation we first of all want to collect the money. Second is that we want to ensure that if we're getting into a settlement, that there really isn't any hope of getting any more money out of it and so on. In terms of compassionate reasons, because someone is elderly and possibly sick, those, I suppose, also come into play, but again that comes to part of whether or not we really feel there's any chance of recovering any more of the money owed to us. Thank you.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. Mr. Krutko.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Well, that's exactly my point. In order to stay within public housing and in arrears you have to make the attempt to pay or you get booted out. Yet we know of hundreds of thousands of dollars that's been basically spent and never repaid. Also we have major outstanding debts with different agencies of this government; the Power Corporation, the Housing Corporation. What attempts are we making for them to pay down their debt? Yet we're getting elderly people in social housing in the Northwest Territories to have to pay off their arrears. When is the government going to get those people who owe us some arrears too, like the Power Corporation and Housing Corporation, to pay down some of our debt? That's where it's coming from is those two organizations. If we're going to go after the elderly lady with cancer, why couldn't we go after those corporations that continue to spend and never pay back their debt?

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Handley.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Joe Handley

Joe Handley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We want to be fair to everybody. We want to be fair to the people who are paying their debts, even though it may be a bit of a hardship on them. We want to be fair to people who are unable to pay their debts. There are limits and there are rules in terms of which ones come here and which ones the administrator of whatever the program is has the authority to make the settlement. I'm sure there are settlements being made by administration in the Housing Corporation and other places every day that we never see.

The main objective here, though, has to be to get the money, but also be fair to everybody. I think often people don't realize that this avenue is open to them and if there's an area where we can make some improvement in the future in another government is probably in making sure that people are aware of the fact that they're expected to pay back the money. If they can't then we don't just send a collection agent in. There are ways of working with them. Thank you.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Minister Handley. The chair will recognize Mr. McLeod.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael McLeod

Michael McLeod Deh Cho

Mr. Chairman, I move we report progress.

general Comments
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Paul Delorey

The motion on the floor is non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

The chair will rise and report progress.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

The House will now come back to order. May I have the report of Committee of the Whole. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Paul Delorey

Paul Delorey Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, committee has been considering Bill 19, Write-off of Debts Act, 2003-2004, and Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004, and would like to report process, and would like to report that Bill 19 is ready for third reading. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Do we have a seconder for the motion? The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre seconds the motion. Ready for the question?

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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Some Hon. Members

Question.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Question has been called. All those in favour, please signify. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried.

---Carried

Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, Orders of the Day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, a meeting of the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development at adjournment tonight; tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight.

Orders of the Day for Thursday, October 2nd:

  1. Prayer
  2. Ministers' Statements
  3. Members' Statements
  4. Reports of Standing and Special Committees
  5. Returns to Oral Questions
  6. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
  7. Oral Questions
  8. Written Questions
  9. Returns to Written Questions
  10. Replies to Opening Address
  11. Petitions
  12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
  13. Tabling of Documents
  14. Notices of Motion
  15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
  16. Motions
  17. - Motion 15, To Rescind the Revised Business Incentive Policy

  18. First Reading of Bills
  19. - Bill 29, NWT Business Development and Investment Corporation Act

    - Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Official Languages Act, No. 2

    - Bill 31, An Act to Amend the Official Languages Act, No. 3

    - Bill 32, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 2003-2004

    - Bill 33, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 4, 2002-2003

    - Bill 34, Tlicho Land Claims and Self-Government Agreement Act

  20. Second Reading of Bills
  21. - Bill 28, An Act to Amend the Official Languages Act

  22. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
  23. - Bill 20, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 2003-2004

    - Bill 21, Protection Against Family Violence Act

    - Bill 22, Waste Recovery and Reduction Act

    - Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Safety Act

    - Bill 24, Midwifery Profession Act

    - Bill 26, Youth Justice Act

    - Bill 27, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act

  24. Report of Committee of the Whole
  25. Third Reading of Bills
  26. - Bill 19, Write-off of Debts Act, 2003-2004

  27. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

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The Speaker

The Speaker Tony Whitford

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:00 p.m.